For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Description: Today, we’re revisiting a pivotal conversation that changed the course of Jen’s life and career. In 2016, during what was expected to be a routine interview with journalist Jonathan Merritt, Jen found herself speaking publicly for the first time about her views on abortion, politics, and LGBTQ+ issues—beliefs she had been wrestling with privately for over a year. While she was confident in her answers, she was unprepared for the backlash that followed. In this encore episode, Jen and Jonathan reflect on that moment and its ripple effects. Jonathan shares his own parallel journey—growing up as the son of a megachurch pastor, internalizing the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message, and later confronting his own identity as a gay man. His story, like Jen’s, became public in ways he never expected, leading him on a path of deeper truth, faith, and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You told the truth. You were ready for this interview. You had actually been doing the work for a decade to be ready to answer those questions honestly. But, your PR wasn't ready.” – Amy Hardin “The best way to live is true. No matter what you think it will cost or what it does cost you, the cost is worth the reward.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Religion News Service - https://religionnews.com/about-rns/ Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage and more by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/jen-hatmaker-trump-black-lives-matter-gay-marriage Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-63/growing-up-evangelical-and-gay-with-jonathan-merritt/ My Saddest Good Friday in Memory: When Treasured Things are Dead - https://jenhatmaker.com/my-saddest-good-friday-in-memory-when-treasured-things-are-dead/ Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/how-to-create-a-politics-of-love-lisa-sharon-harper/ Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/christian-rock-star-admits-hes-gay-writes-letter-to-fans?rq=trey%20pearson Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/eugene-peterson-changing-mind-sex-issues-marriage?rq=eugene Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/leading-evangelical-ethicist-now-pro-lgbt?rq=david A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars – Jonathan Merritt -  Dr. Michael Lindsay,  Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin, Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt Twitter - https://x.com/JonathanMerritt Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JonathanMerrittWriter Substack - https://jonathanmerritt.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: With over two decades of experience in the field, Vanessa Marin is on a mission to help people break down shame, talk openly about sex, and create truly intimate relationships. As a a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, which she co-wrote with her husband, Xander, Vanessa brings a candid, humorous, and deeply compassionate voice to a topic that too often stays in the dark Whether your relationship is in a rut, your spark feels a little… dim, or you just want to feel more connected—to your partner and yourself—this one’s for you. Vanessa is going to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure. Some topics we dig into: Why we have knee-jerk reactions to sex rooted in shame Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man The myth about the female orgasm The best things for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking off your clothes The difference between spontaneous desire versus responsive desire Thought-provoking Quotes: “Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin “This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin “A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. the reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. ” – Vanessa Marin “We get very little, if no, actual sex education. Most of us are left with movies, and TV, and porn as our only sex education. So it's totally understandable that most of us see these scenes and think, that's what I'm looking for. That's the kind of connection I'm supposed to have with my partner. But, the reality is the way that sex looks on TV and in the movies, that's designed for entertainment. It's designed to look good and be pretty. It's not what sex really looks like in real life.” – Vanessa Marin Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper Guest’s Links: Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vanessaandxander/ Twitter - https://x.com/VMTherapy Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vanessaandxander/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/vanessamarin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@vanessaandxander Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/vanessaandxander/_created/ Podcast - https://vmtherapy.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.  KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women  who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.  This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about: What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle What it means to be morally neutral How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability,  KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes my publishers will give me some advice like, ‘Let’s project that you’re a credible expert’, meanwhile I’m shooting TikToks from the toilet.” – KC Davis “Despite being a therapist, I did not realize that I had severe postpartum depression because I didn't feel sad.” KC Davis “Messiness is not a moral failing. Either your messiness is just a part of your personality and it's pretty functional for you and you don't need to change anything and accept yourself or maybe it's because you're having a hard time.” – KC Davis “No one has ever shamed themselves into better mental health.” – KC Davis “Self-care is not the thing you do to make yourself not struggle. It is learning how to take care of yourself while you struggle.” – KC Davis Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Who Deserves Your Love: How to Create Boundaries to Start, Strengthen, or End Any Relationship by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/3GVFdfh How to Keep House While Drowning: A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/43dAn4n KC Davis Resources - https://www.strugglecare.com/resources KC Davis TED Talk - How To Do Laundry When You’re Depressed - https://www.ted.com/talks/kc_davis_how_to_do_laundry_when_you_re_depressed_apr_2022 Thomas–Kilmann Conflict Styles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas%E2%80%93Kilmann_Conflict_Mode_Instrument Struggle Care - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/strugglecare Twitter - https://x.com/KCDavisSays Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StruggleCare/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@domesticblisters Podcast - https://www.strugglecare.com/struggle-care Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Beloved author Wade Rouse—who writes under the pen name Viola Shipman—joins Jen for a heartfelt, hilarious, and deeply insightful conversation about writing, identity, and honoring the women who shape us. Known for his evocative novels rooted in love, memory, and family, Wade shares the origin of his pen name (a tribute to his grandmother), the transition from memoir to fiction, and how Michigan became the emotional landscape for so many of his stories.In this touching episode, Jen and Wade dive into: The joy (and exhaustion) of book tours The beauty of writing from grief The fight against genre-shaming in publishing Why women’s voices in literature matter more than ever His latest novel The Page Turner, and what inspired it His upcoming project that’s giving Golden Girls a queer twist Whether you’re a book lover, an aspiring writer, or someone who believes in the power of personal stories, this episode is packed with inspiration, connection, and literary magic.Thought-Provoking Quotes:★ “My grandmother never finished high school, but she taught me to love myself unconditionally. My novels are a thank-you to her.” – Wade Rouse★ “The most fearful place in your life can also be the place you take off from.” – Wade Rouse★ “I’m not having it—genre shaming diminishes stories that speak to real people in real life.” – Wade Rouse★ “Writing is how I make sense of the world. It’s what keeps me alive.” – Wade Rouse★ “Real readers read your books.” – Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:➢ The Page Turner by Viola Shipman - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-page-turner-viola-shipman/c2LjF3Fyg5p6hhsJ➢ Thank You for Being a Friend (Coming Spring 2026 from Wade Rouse) - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/thank-you-for-being-a-friend-wade-rouse?variant=43837257121826➢ On Being Jewish Now, edited by Zibby Owens – https://zibbymedia.com/products/on-being-jewish-now?srsltid=AfmBOopN4cohtpA6k7EbIWC3F0Pq7dYqivWB5s97E-e9iEtFrw4sugUH➢ Erma Bombeck –https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL➢ BookPeople in Austin, TX – https://www.bookpeople.com➢ Visit Saugatuck, MI – https://www.saugatuck.comGuest’s Links:Website – https://www.violashipman.comInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/violashipmanFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/ViolaShipmanBooksConnect with Jen!Website – https://jenhatmaker.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerFacebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, we’re playing a few of our favorite messages and responding to what you, our listeners, have shared. Whether it’s midlife realizations, hard-won wisdom, or letting go of stuff that just isn’t serving you anymore—this is about all of us learning from each other. Thank you to Alice, Ann, Sarah, Ashley, #1 Becky and  “Badass Becky”   Also, Sydney Hatmaker said some hurtful things to us about us broadcasting our bare old lady feet on the podcast and we had to take a minute to discuss a new dress code policy. Thought-provoking Quotes: 18:00 Sometimes the tool is just language – Amy Hardin 21:00 Tools all in use but still suffering – Jen 27:00 I want to shake people and pull things over. I’m not sure that’s the appropriate response. – Jen 29:30 If we don’t counter messages, others will take over. – Jen 47:00 Make a list of your accomplishments to use for momentum – Amy 48:00 I think we are at our best in the second half of life – Jen 58:00 I want out of the rat race – Jen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reclaiming Your Power: Moms Demand Action’s Shannon Watts on Living a Life of Passion and Purpose - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reclaiming-your-power-moms-demand-actions-shannon-watts-on-living-a-life-of-passion-and-purpose/ Camino de Santiago - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Midlife Isn’t a Crisis, It’s a Comeback: Maddie Corman on Being Accidentally Brave - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/midlife-isnt-a-crisis-its-a-comeback-maddie-corman-on-being-accidentally-brave/ Betrayal Trauma - https://www.verywellmind.com/betrayal-trauma-causes-symptoms-impact-and-coping-5270361 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Books by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/3FgwnIt The Tears of Things: Living Prophetically in an Age of Outrage with Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-tears-of-things-living-prophetically-in-an-age-of-outrage-with-richard-rohr/ Trump administration says it’s cutting 90% of USAID foreign aid contracts - https://apnews.com/article/trump-usaid-foreign-aid-cuts-6292f48f8d4025bed0bf5c3e9d623c16 Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Escaping the Productivity Trap: Kendra Adachi’s Lazy Genius Perspective - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/escaping-the-productivity-trap-kendra-adachis-lazy-genius-perspective/ Frances Mayes - https://www.francesemayes.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature. Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.  “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.” “Outer order contributes to inner calm.” “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.” “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.” Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel.  Anyone want to take bets? Thought-provoking Quotes: “Happier people are  more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin “Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin “There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin “When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/ David Sedaris The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/  The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF 5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy Guest’s Links: Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/GretchenRubin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gretchenrubin Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Maggie Smith, a poet and author known for her viral poem 'Good Bones,' dives into the transformative power of creativity. She discusses how writing has been her anchor through tough times and emphasizes that all decisions are inherently creative. Smith debunks the myth of the solitary artist, celebrating the importance of community in the creative process. She highlights the gift of attention, reminding us that genuine engagement with the world enhances our appreciation for beauty and art. Her insights inspire listeners to embrace their own creative journeys.

Discover how to build the life of your dreams with insights from elite entrepreneurs. Listen as Emma Grede dives into powerful conversations about personal growth, career strategies, and well-being. Expect impactful stories, practical tips, and data-driven advice from some of the brightest minds. This engaging dialogue not only inspires but also equips listeners with the tools to turn aspirations into reality.

Description: Melissa Radke is the best friend you never knew you always wanted with a Texas-sized heart and sense of humor to match. She’s also an author, speaker, TV personality, and For the Love fan-favorite, best known for her gut-busting sense of humor, deep honesty, and fierce Southern sass. Melissa first gained a national following with her viral videos about parenting and real life, which led to a reality show (The Radkes) and a bestselling book (Eat Cake. Be Brave.) A fierce advocate for women finding their voice—especially in midlife—Melissa brings laughter and tears to everything she touches. Her newest project, Chicken Fried Women, a collection of stories (with a companion podcast series) celebrates the women—battered on the outside, tender on the inside, some salty, some spicy—who made us who we are. In this life-giving conversation filled with snort-laughs and tears, we talk about:  The incredible women who raised us, taught us, prayed for us, and even humbled us when we needed it most The stories that have become legend in our families—Melissa tells a story about her Aunt Melba helping her mother with fastening her girdle in a cramped church bathroom stall that left Jen and Amy in stitches The friends who have shown up for us in times of crisis with remedies and solutions that we never could have fathomed for ourselves Thought-provoking Quotes: “I have always thought that people who have an innate gift to find and communicate humor, even in the midst of sorrow, possess a gift of healing. And I can’t number how many times I have been on the other side of someone else’s gift of humor and it has restored me in a way that literally nothing else could.” – Jen Hatmaker “Don’t waste another second being around someone who makes you feel like you’re too much. Go sit at a different table. Find a different circle.” – Melissa Radke “I am fully committed, as committed as I am to Christ, to the moo-moo. I make no apologies and I thank the person who rebranded it by calling it a kaftan.” – Melissa Radke Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Eat Cake & Be Brave: The Funny Formula For Life With Melissa Radke - https://bit.ly/4j29Yxm Fierce, Free & Full of Questions: Melissa Radke Gets Jen to Tell it All - https://bit.ly/4lkzm2Q The Radkes - https://www.usanetwork.com/the-radkes Saturday Night Live’s Five Timer’s Club - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/snl-fiver-timers-club-member-hosts Chicken-Fried Women: Friendship, Kinship, and the Women Who Made Us This Way by Melissa Radke - https://amzn.to/3FS6azY The Chicken Fried Women Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Erma Bombeck - https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Tina Fey - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0275486/ Amy Poehler - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0688132/ Mindy Kaling - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1411676/ She’s in Love with the Boy by Trisha Yearwood - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.melissaradke.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmelissaradke/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MelissaRadkeStretchMarks/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@MelissaRadke TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melissaradke Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: …Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones – Read here Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones – Read here Losing Eden by Lucy Jones – Read here Dana Raphael (American Anthropologist) – Learn more “The Birth of a Mother” by Alexandra Sacks (NYT article) – Read here 2017 NIH Study on Pregnancy and the Brain – Read here Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich – Read here Andrea O’Reilly (Motherhood scholar) – Learn more Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: lucyfjones.com Lucy’s X: @lucyjones Instagram: @lucyfjones Facebook: Lucy Jones Books Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices