The Messy City Podcast

Aaron Lubeck doesn’t just have opinions, he’s willing to share them. Honestly. He’s also a guy with a very unusual career path for urban design and planning coaching. Part developer, part historic preservationist, part designer, and now part journalist, Aaron and I cover a lot of ground. How do we find and create more small developers in our community, and actually help them succeed? How can we especially recruit younger people, women and minorities into the field?Aaron has been involved with Incremental Development Alliance from nearly. the beginning, doing trainings and helping recruit. He’s also active with the National Town Builders Association. Because all that isn’t enough, he’s helped to launch a new magazine - yes, an actual magazine, called Southern Urbanism Quarterly.Other Links:Aaron’s LinkedIn pageAllison Ramsey Architects website - house plansFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Kevin’s editorial note: I’ve had some questions about making transcripts of these available, for those who’d prefer to read instead of listen to the podcasts. I’m looking into it, especially what AI tools might help. Just know I have exceptionally limited time, and there’s no way I’m going to spend an additional hour or two each week refining a transcript. At this point in my life, it’s just not possible. At any rate, the audio is much more interesting anyway - please give it a listen. If you’re new to podcasts, give them a try. I will definitely be producing more actual written content soon. The first half of this year has simply hit a new threshold for busy-ness in my life. Thanks as always for following, and keep your comments coming.For this week’s episode, I give my observations on how change happens. We seem to have a lot of confusion about this. Some folks think change never happens, and others seem to think it can be made to happen in big, utopian ways immediately. Big societal changes do happen (that should be obvious to anyone over 30), but they take time, leadership, and lots of grass roots effort. Change that sustains itself almost always connects deeply to human nature and human pleasure. I’d hope that would be obvious, but it seems often not to be the case.In my public presentations, I talk frequently about how change has happened in relation to food, cooking and eating. I discuss the groundbreaking efforts of Alice Waters and Julia Child in particular. And then we draw connections to how change has been happening with our cities and towns, going from the post-WWII period up until now. Jane Jacobs is obviously a big figure in this effort (btw, fun cameo of her in the latest season of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel), but let’s not forget the thousands and thousands of others who put in time and effort in complementary ways - all trying to pursue pro-human values about life in cities. Oh by the way, it’s not easy, and you may in fact experience a lot of hatred in the process. Buckle up.This episode comes out just as the Strong Towns National Gathering and CNU 31 in Charlotte is commencing. If you’re there and would like to chat in person, please come find me. I’ll be doing a presentation with Abby Kinney at the Strong Towns gathering related to traffic calming and beautification projects in Kansas City. At CNU 31, I’ll mostly be in the Urban Guild room, as we have two days of very exciting and practical content. Of course, there’s also the session on AI, which may or may not be practical, but should be entertaining. See you there.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Being a Director of City Planning is glamorous, right? Isn’t that what Seinfeld taught us?Rob Richardson has been a Planning Director in both Kansas City, Kansas (the Unified Government of Wyandotte County) and Raymore, Missouri. He’s also worked as a planner in Independence, Missouri. We discuss the reality of the job in those communities, and the challenges of working in places that aren’t wealthy.While in KCK, Rob advanced numerous efforts including design guidelines for development of narrow lots (of which there are thousands in the older part of the city), a Traditional Neighborhood Development ordinance, a Sidewalk and Trail Plan, a Downtown Plan, and much more. We talk about the successes and failures of all this, and also the remarkable success KCK has had in turning its Land Bank around in recent years while working with smaller builders and developers.Rob is now back in the private sector, leading Richardson Brothers Development. Here’s his LinkedIn page.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Nathan Norris and I have been involved in New Urbanism and the Congress for the New Urbanism for more than 25 years. And yet, our backgrounds and path to it couldn’t be more different. Nathan came a military and a legal background, while I came from an architecture and design background. In fact, most New Urbanists were originally like me, and people like Nathan were the outliers.Nathan talks about how he followed his passions, sort of. Basically, things that angered him, led him to future work. Don’t get the wrong idea - Nathan is not an angry guy. But he does describe how he found his way eventually to Placemakers, working in downtown Lafayette, Louisiana, and then back on his own with the City Building Partnership. We talk a lot about the importance of messaging and clear language, implementation of form-based codes, especially the SmartCode, and The Urban Guild among other topics.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

It’s a tale of two Kevins, as we discuss cultivating local prosperity and the Strong Towns message with Kevin Shepherd of Verdunity. Kevin is an engineer by background, and started his own planning and engineering firm just over a decade ago in the Dallas area. He left the corporate world to follow his calling to help cities and towns make more fiscally-productive decisions with land use and infrastructure. He talks with us about why he made that leap, how it’s going working in cities and towns in Texas (and elsewhere), and how others can follow in his footsteps.We also talk a little about the scourge of Kevinism.Other links:Go Cultivate! podcastMessy City episode with Monte Anderson Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

In just a few short years, Andrew Ganahl has already made a notable impact in the urban development world in Kansas City. He’s developed three new projects in the urban core, is working on more, and he’s shown how persistence and a positive attitude can get a whole lot done in short order. But, he’s not only not from Kansas City, he’s also only recently become a developer. The Stanford and Harvard-educated public policy wonk (I hope he doesn’t mind me calling him that), only came to the development world in his thirties. We explore this unusual journey, not only to KC and the middle of the map, but also to real estate development.Is it possible to leave the world of public policy and find more fulfillment doing things you can see and touch? Listen and hear Andrew’s thoughts.Links:Andrew’s LinkedIn profileAND Real EstateAndrew’s projects:1914 Main, now under new ownershipTerrace on Walnut, now under new ownershipWaldo FlatsIn Milwaukee - the Quin and the YardsFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

The notorious and excellent blogger, Mr. Money Mustache, wrote a worlds-colliding piece a couple weeks ago called “Less Cars, More Money: My Visit to the City of the Future.” MMM writes at length about culdesac Tempe, which we discussed on a previous podcast with Dan Parolek of Opticos Design.MMM is the GOAT in many respects for the Financial Independence movement. If you’ve touched that world at all, you’ve probably heard of him, read his posts, or seen him in movies or clips. Funny thing is, he’s also very interested in urban planning and city design. In this post, he marries the two worlds, and suggests how it might impact other people and American cities in the future.I have my take on it, as you might imagine.Also, in Act 2, Everything is broken right now. What does it all mean?Here’s a few other items referenced in the podcast:Disney SpringsChooseFI Some background on the movement to pedestrianize American main streets in the 1960s and 70s in particular. Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

How do you find an outlet for your passion for your place, especially when you don’t feel you have the money necessary to get started? Is it possible to still see yourself as a developer?Jason, Shomari and I have a LOT to discuss in this episode. In my longest interview to-date, we talk about a wide range of topics from getting started in development, to being the change in your own community, and what all is going on in Kansas City and the Vine District in particular. Jason and Shomari are two go-getters in KC, who both came to development from very different backgrounds and have learned a ton as they go. We talk about their entrepreneurial spirit, dealing with success and failure, and how rewarding and creative it can be to take on development projects yourself.Links:Shomari’s law firm. Benton, Lloyd and ChungJason Carter-Solomon on LinkedIn2000 VineWheatley Provident HospitaVine DistrictFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Sometimes, you run across people that get you very inspired and fired up for action. They make you want to run through a wall to get started NOW. This episode features two such people. I challenge you not to be energized and excited to do something good for your own community.Bernice Radle is the CEO and Founder of Buffalove Development. She started the company in 2012, and focuses exclusively on the west side of Buffalo.Monte Anderson founded Options Real Estate in 1991 in south Dallas, Texas. He’s one of the founders of the Incremental Development Alliance, and has been an active community-oriented developer for over thirty years.Bernice and Monte have started a consulting service for communities looking to ramp up their local developer ecosystem called Neighborhood Evolution.In this episode we explore their own paths to becoming developers, their philosophy on doing locally-oriented development, some of the challenges and the opportunities for others, and how to get over yourself and get started today.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Dan Parolek co-founded Opticos Design with his wife Karen about 25 years ago. Since then, Opticos has become a national leader in the field of urban planning and design. Dan has authored two seminal books, Form-Based Codes: A Guide for Planners, Urban Designers, Municipalities and Developers and Missing Middle Housing: Thinking Big and Building Small to Respond to Today’s Housing Crisis. Dan is a true thought leader in the field, and a great friend of the podcast. Dan and I first got to know each other and work together on a charrette in Truckee, CA in 1999, and we’ve had the pleasure to work together, collaborate, and brainstorm ideas all the years since.In recent years, Dan has become known as the primary spokesperson for the concept of Missing Middle Housing. His firm has developed a website specific to that topic here. Some of the projects mentioned in the episode include the Daybreak Mews Homes, Bungalows on the Lake at Prairie Queen, and Culdesac in Tempe, AZ.We talk about the current state of American cities, changes that have taken place over the last couple of decades, some current threats to the cities, and a lot about implementing Missing Middle Housing and Form-Based Codes.Other mentions:The Urban GuildCongress for the New UrbanismThanks for listening! Please share, like, follow and review the podcast at your pleasure.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe