
Pineland Underground
The official podcast of the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School at Fort Liberty, North Carolina. SGM Riley and MAJ Holzmann embark on a journey to provide the best podcast in the military with bi-monthly relentless awesomeness. Real. Bold. Un-restricted.
Latest episodes

Jan 21, 2022 • 1h 4min
Silicon Valley and SOF | Driving Innovation
On today’s episode of Pineland Underground we sit down with Mr. Bill Warner, member of the renowned Naval Postgraduate School Foundation Advisory Council. We discuss the drive for innovation through collaboration across Silicon Valley and Special Operations. We dive into Applied Design for Innovation at the Naval Postgraduate School, thoughts on Cyber and China, and the “innovation engine” as it applies to startups, Stanford, and SOF.

Jan 7, 2022 • 58min
Creating the next generation of SOF leaders
The MSG David K. Thuma Noncommissioned Officers Academy - NCOA is tasked with training disciplined NCO’s capable of executing full spectrum Special Operations in complex and ambiguous environments. In this episode we are joined by three NCOA instructors from each of the Special Forces, Civil Affairs, and Psychological Operations regiments. They discuss what it’s like to work at the SWCS NCOA and teach soldiers in order to develop competent and adaptive ARSOF leaders through progressive professional military education.

Dec 17, 2021 • 1h 16min
Digital Dunkirk | Exclusive insight into the Afghan Evacuation
In this episode, we are joined by COL(R) Fred Dummar, a retired Special Forces officer who commanded at every level in Special Forces from Captain to Colonel, with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Having spent a significant amount of time in Afghanistan himself on active duty and as a defense contractor, COL(R) Dummar discusses the evacuation from Afghanistan and how he aided in the efforts to help get Afghan SOF members out of the country amidst all the chaos.

Dec 15, 2021 • 1h 4min
Talking Trash & Special Operations | A Look Inside this Human Phenomenon
In this episode we are joined by Rafi Kohan, the author of “The Arena” which is a deep dive into wide ranging and interdisciplinary examination of the modern American sports stadium. Rafi is currently researching for his upcoming book on competitive banter a.k.a. talking trash, a human behavioral phenomenon that has existed throughout time, across cultures, and across the world.

Nov 24, 2021 • 1h 26min
A Warrior’s Journey | From Surviving Oppression to Freeing the Oppressed
Today we are joined Green Beret Master Sergeant (Retired) Tu Lam, the inspiration behind Call of Duty: Modern Warfare’s Operator Rōnin (浪人) and founder of Ronin Tactics. Tu shares his story of escaping oppression in communist Vietnam and his road to earning the coveted Green Beret, his time serving as a Special Forces soldier, his post-military career and his return to the JFK Special Warfare Center and School, and sharpening the Warrior way of life.

Oct 22, 2021 • 1h 11min
Countering Misinformation and Disinformation
Today we are joined by Colonel Bobby Sidell, the Command Psychologist for the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School to discuss finding clarity and critical thinking through malign Misinformation-Disinformation (MISDIS). Colonel Sidell discusses SWCS’ new curriculum focused on developing sharper awareness and recognition of MISDIS platforms and the environments which nurture it, means to inoculate ourselves against the rising threat, and the execution of proven countermeasures to mitigate its influence.

Oct 8, 2021 • 1h 17min
Information Management in the Production of Special Operations
Today we are joined by Major Stu Gallagher, Special Operations Forces Management Information System or SOFMIS. The mission of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School (SWCS) is to produce our world-class Army Special Operations Force Soldiers. The discussion centers around how SOFMIS improving how the organization it collects, manages and analyzes information to allow the organization to see itself and the Soldiers that it trains. Major Gallagher explores how SOFMIS is illuminating efficiencies in the organization, and driving decisions focused on cost, quality and output in the production of Special Operations Soldiers.

Jun 18, 2021 • 36min
(Knowledge Wins) The Kill Chain | Defending America
Today we are joined by Christian Brose, author of “The Kill Chain - Defending America in the Future of High-Tech Warfare.” We open with Mr. Brose explaining how his time on the Senate Armed Services Committee led him to author this book. He discusses with our host how the changing nature of conflict has eroded traditional U.S. military supremacy. The twin problems are the slowness of the US military to modernize and incorporate new technology and the growing military threat posed by rivals, such as China. The conversation is rounded out by discussing the steps the US government can take to redress this problem.

May 28, 2021 • 32min
(Knowledge Wins) Defeating ISIS in Syria | Lessons Learned from the SOJTF Commander
Today we are joined by the commander of the United States Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare and School, Maj. General Patrick Roberson to discusses the lessons learned in Syria. A key theme is the complex nature of fighting in Syria, both to win the war on the ground, and to win the narrative battle. Also covered is the increasing Great Power Competition between the US, Russian and Iranian governments, each attempting to expand their influence in the region. The conversation is rounded out with MG Roberson contrasting Iraq, where SOF CA teams were not allowed by the local government, to Syria where SOF CA teams were welcomed by the Free Syrian Army.

Apr 30, 2021 • 24min
(Knowledge Wins) SOF Resources for a Healthy Family
Today we are joined again by Colonel Robert Sidell, the Command Psychologist for the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School to discuss the SOF family programs seminar, and the importance of family wellness. COL Sidell opens by explaining the necessity of a good work-life balance and allowing service members to bring their best performance to work. The conversation is then expanded by discussing support resources for family members or Soldiers who have lost a team member. The conversation is rounded out by COL Sidell weighing in on the second and third order effects of these programs, not only healthier families for the service member, but higher retention rates for the military.