Robert Kegan, a Harvard expert on adult development, teams up with philosopher Ken Wilber to dive deep into the evolving self. They discuss how interior development fosters inclusivity, shaping a more integrated world. The conversation shifts from the interplay of postmodernism and social consciousness to the nuances of human development within social movements. They also tackle the challenges of personal growth in the context of cultural norms and longevity, emphasizing the crucial role of community in enhancing self-authorship.

Robert Kegan, the author of The Evolving Self and In Over Our Heads, explores the vital role of interior development in creating a more inclusive and integrated world, as well as the importance of the appropriate use of discriminating awareness. Robert Kegan is a founding member of Integral Institute and the author of the critically acclaimed books The Evolving Self, In Over Our Heads, and How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work. Bob is also the first-ever Meehan Professor of Adult Learning and Professional Development at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. As the holder of this endowed chair, Bob has the official support of HGSE to pursue developmental studies for the rest of his career. This is significant. For the past several decades developmental studies have fallen upon some hard times in academia. For many, to have a developmental view is to be hierarchical—and to be hierarchical is to be oppressive, regressive, patriarchal, and a direct contributor to the suffering of untold millions. The fact the HGSE has decided to so clearly support Bob’s work is a welcome sign that the winds may be shifting. It’s important to note that there are (at least) two significantly different ways that “hierarchy” can be understood: as it exists in the exterior structure of a society and as it exists in the interior structure of an individual. Historically, enormous abuses of power have occurred by those at the top of a societal hierarchy—but those who would do so are by definition not at the higher stages of the interior, developmental hierarchy. Psychologically, people grow through stages of increasing competence, care, and concern. Each stage transcends and includes the function of what came before, but excludes an exclusive identity with that function. In Bob’s work he outlines Five Orders of Consciousness: First Order: Impulsive—Perceives and responds by emotion. Second Order: Imperial—Motivated solely by one’s desires. Third Order: Interpersonal—Defined by the group. Fourth Order: Institutional—Self directed, self authoring. Fifth Order: Interindividual—Interpenetration of self systems. Loosely, one can think of the first and second orders as egocentric (me), the third order as ethnocentric (us), and the fourth and fifth orders as worldcentric (all of us). If one grows from egocentric to ethnocentric, one doesn’t stop caring about oneself, but that care and concern is now extended to one’s family, community, nation, and so on. Likewise with the growth from ethnocentric to worldcentric, that care is now extended to all people regardless of race, class, creed, gender, etc. As Bob and Ken discuss, an important element of worldcentric consciousness is the contributions of postmodernism, including feminism, civil rights, and, among other things, the understanding that a substantial amount of human knowledge is context dependant and culturally bound. But postmodernism then stepped beyond what it had evidence for and claimed that all knowledge was relative, and therefore nothing could be said to be better than anything else. In fact, a fellow researcher, Clare Graves, called this level of development relativistic (Spiral Dynamics green), which research has shown accounts for about 20% of the American population. But as Ken points out, that means that about 20% of the population has gotten confused about how to make conscious, explicit judgments. Most of the people in this group would agree that a worldcentric embrace of all cultures is better than ethnocentric racism, but postmodern relativism won’t be able tell them why it’s okay to think this way. When all judgments have been outlawed, even sensible examples of discriminating awareness rightly applied have nothing to stand on. Originally published on 12/20/2004

Lana and Lilly Wachowski, the writers and directors of The Matrix trilogy, have been reluctant to share their interpretation of the films from day one, fearing that whatever they said would turn into dogma. However, this did present a problem for Warner Brothers when producing The Ultimate Matrix Collection DVD boxed set. How do you have a director’s commentary—a must for any boxed set—when the directors refuse to comment? What the Wachowskis did was to ask Ken Wilber and Cornel West to do the director’s commentary on all 3 films. The following dialogue was recorded right before Ken flew to LA to meet with Lana and Cornel and do the recorded commentary. Ken and Cornel recorded 15 hours of commentary, which has been edited down to 6 hours to fit the 3 films, and the boxed set with all 3 films—and 6 hours of Ken and Cornel’s commentary—will be released in October. In the following dialogue, for the first time ever, we are lucky enough to hear Lana publicly comment on this situation. As she explains, the movies were in many ways designed not to give answers, but to introduce questions. What does it mean to be human? What is reality? Who is in control? Does God exist? and so on. If she was to explain what he thought the movies meant, she would be providing people with another concept of reality to either accept or reject—either way, the open space created by the question would vanish. “The whole key to The Matrix trilogy is given in the last twenty minutes of the third film….”

Corey DeVos, editor-in-chief of Integral Life, joins Jeff Salzman to talk about recent goings-on at Integral Life. From Jeff: "I invited him on because my job is highlighting the emergence of integral consciousness, and I have been really impressed with the stuff Corey and company are putting out these days. (Plus they host my live show twice a week, and I want them to know I love them!)"

An integrally-inspired clinical psychologist specializing in couples therapy, Dr. Tom Habib has mapped what he calls the “couple’s line of development,” which describes the predictable stages a couple typically grows through — and where they may get stalled.

Ginny Whitelaw shares some of the central themes of her new astonishing new training program, Lead With Purpose. Learn more here: https://integrallife.com/lead-with-purpose-training/

Kent Bye, host of the Voices of VR podcast, talks to Ken Wilber about the many ways virtual reality can bring Ken’s integral map of consciousness to life, exploring how VR’s unique capacity to elicit feelings of awe, empathy, and flow can help it become a uniquely powerful platform of transformation.

Corey deVos talks to Lynn Fuentes about his daughter's Biliary Atresia diagnosis when she was just a few months old, her subsequent liver transplant a year later, and her ongoing recovery today. Corey also shares some of the little wisdoms that have ripened for him during his family's journey. It was a fantastic and very touching interview, and we invite you all to check it out.

Do You Want A More Fulfilling Marriage & Lifelong Love Affair? Wouldn’t you like to know — quickly, easily and succinctly — what the very best of science tells us about how to have amazing, life-changing relationships, intimacy and sex? Loving Completely is your guide. In Dr. Keith Witt’s new book, Loving Completely: A Five Star Practice for Creating Great Relationships, we explore the five most critical strategies to make your relationships as healthy and fulfilling as possible, and discover new depths of connection, intimacy, and attraction. https://www.lovingcompletely.com/special “Why is it that 40 percent of U.S. adults report chronic loneliness and over 60 percent of self-reported lonely people are married and live with a spouse? Why is it that 37 percent of U.S. adults answered, ‘Yes,’ to ‘Has marriage not worked out for most people you know?’ The answer is that satisfying modern relationships are complicated and demanding in ways that are regularly difficult to understand and deal with. That’s why this is a different kind of relationship book. Not only do I explain why we know so much about intimacy and still have to struggle so hard to be consistently fulfilled, but I’ll tell you what to do about it when the inevitable problems arise.” —Dr. Keith Witt https://www.lovingcompletely.com/special

Ken Wilber and Corey deVos explore some of the causal factors behind so many of the regressive tendencies in our culture and politics these days — particularly the new pressures coming from social media technologies like Facebook. This talk was excerpted from the full 2+ hour dialogue, From Polarization to Integration, available only on Integral Life. https://integrallife.com/from-polarization-to-integration/