Agile and Project Management - DrunkenPM Radio

Edward Kay, the Founder of Tall Projects, has been managing software and digital projects for over 14 years. A few months ago Edward posted an article on The Digital Project Manager called “Agency Agile: 10 Agile Methods for Agencies”. In this interview, Edward and I discuss his article, some of the key things you need to do in order to get agile to work in digital, and why Scrum may be the one thing that just won’t work in an agency model. 04:04 - Interview Begins 04:48 - Background on Edward and Tall Projects 05:55 - How Edward got started doing agile 06:31 - How Edward’s clients develop a desire to try Agile 09:11 - Are the clients who want to “Go Agile” aware of what that will require and willing to take the steps needed to implement the change? 11:25 - Where in the organization is agile getting started? 12:17 - Why the clients bring Edward in 13:34 - There is no one true way 14:50 - Critical challenges facing Digital Agencies trying to adopt Agile 16:32 - Understanding how to look at work across the portfolio 17:32 - Different ways of measuring work in agencies that are using Agile 20:07 - “Why don’t we just smoke crack at work?” 23:52 - Tracking Happiness 25:10 - Quantifying value and limiting WIP 28:26 - What is the client actually paying you for? 30:50 - Determining value at the project deliverable level 32:40 - Having a conversation about limiting WIP 35:38 - Getting the client to trust the practices agile team’s employ 36:16 - Multitasking is bad and doesn’t work… but it is still expected 37:45 - What Agile practices just do not work in an Agency model 38:49 - “The on system that is not well suited for Digital Agencies in Scrum” 41:15 - Kanban as an alternative for Digital Agencies 42:10 - What Agile tool/technique is the key to making it work in an Agency model? 43:17 - What is the piece that is missing when trying to make Agile fit in an Agency model? 44:18 - How to get in touch with Edward Contacting Edward Website - https://www.tallprojects.co.uk Email: edward@tallprojects.co.uk LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardkay/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/edwardkay or https://twitter.com/tallprojects Edward’s article on The Digital Project Manager: Agency Agile: 10 Agile Methods For Agencies http://www.thedigitalprojectmanager.com/agency-agile-process/ CSM Training and the 2017 Digital PM Summit For information on the Certified Scrum Master class being held right before the 2017 Digital PM Summit, go to https://www.leadingagile.com/event/certified-scrummaster-training-nevada-10-14-17/. Special Discounts are available for conference attendees. Contact training@leadingagile.com. For information on the 2017 Digital PM Summit, go to http://bureauofdigital.com/summits/digital-pm-2017/.

Justin Handler is the Head of Accounts at O3 World, a Philadelphia based Digital Agency. O3 World has been integrating Agile practices into their workflow for the past few years and Justin has been leading that charge every step of the way. In this interview, Justin shares stories about what has worked for O3, some things that didn’t, and he offers advice for Digital Agencies that are moving down the path towards Agile. Justin is also one of the folks heading up the Digital PM group in Philadelphia. If you’d like to learn more about the group, check out http://twitter.com/dpmphilly or https://www.meetup.com/DPM-Philly/ SHOW NOTES 03:24 Interview begins 03:44 Background on Justin and his role at O3 06:48 How O3 got started with implementing Agile 08:00 O3’s first experiments with Agile estimation practices 09:40 What O3 tried that didn’t work and what they learned from it 11:57 Debating the value of a Daily Standup and O3’s alternative solution 14:15 Does the client get access to the Trello Board and Slack? 14:34 The key to making Agile practices work in an Agency 16:05 Fitting UX into Agile at O3 19:25 Involving Developers with UX work 20:03 Capturing and prioritizing requirements at O3 22:30 Development and UX working in parallel 23:27 Helping the client with adopting Agile (or not) 25:39 Changing the nature of the relationship with the client 27:14 Advice for agencies getting started with Agile 29:23 How to reach Justin JUSTIN’S ARTICLE During the interview Justin references an article he wrote called “Agile In The Agency. Is It Possible?” You can find it here: http://www.thedigitalprojectmanager.com/managing-agile-projects-in-agency/ CONTACTING JUSTIN Web: http://www.o3world.com Email: handler@o3world.com Twitter: @justinhandler

Darren Petersen is a Senior Technical Project Manager at Lullabot. He’s also incredibly knowledgeable about Agile. In this interview Darren and I discuss how Agile has been implemented at Lullabot. We dig into what works, what doesn’t, why he moved away from Story Points and all, and how Lullabot has been able to get dedicated teams in place. Note: During the interview Darren and I have a brief conversation about why it makes no sense to force yourself into the As a (some user) I want to (some action) so I can (some benefit) format just for the sake of using it. I promised to get him an official answer. You can find that here: SHOW NOTES 00:08 Interview Begins 00:47 Background on Lullabot 01:33 Managing 50 distributed team members 03:04 Using social media tools to stay connected with remote staff 05:57 Using Agile at Lullabot for client work 12:02 Making the case for some upfront planning, before using Agile during Development 12:50 Taking on the cost of teaching Agile to the client (who doesn’t care about Agile) 14:22 The way Lullabot sets up Teams to use Agile for client work 15:22 How can a digital agency maintain the business with dedicated teams 20:35 How dedicated teams impact the staff members morale and performance at Lullabot 23:27 Teaching customers to write decent User Stories 28:07 Should you force yourself into a User Story format when it doesn’t make sense? * 29:32 Why Darren doesn’t like using Story Points 33:00 How did Darren get so deep with Agile and what drives him to keep learning about it 36:19 Getting in touch with Darren 37:01 Interview Ends CONTACTING DARREN Twitter https://twitter.com/dsayswhat Email: darren.petersen@lullalbot.com About: https://www.lullabot.com/about/darren-petersen Lullabot https://www.lullabot.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS PODCAST User Stories Applied by Mike Cohn http://amzn.to/2vKv4JI Troy Magennis & Focused Objective http://focusedobjective.com User Story Mapping by Jeff Patton http://amzn.to/2wckyOg Agile Manifesto http://agilemanifesto.org

Jack Skeels is the CEO and Founder of AgencyAgile. There are many organizations devoted to helping companies transform to agile, but AgencyAgile is the only one that is solely focused on helping Digital Agencies adopt Agile. In this interview Jack shares his thoughts on Agile and what makes it succeed or fail in a Digital Agency context. SHOW NOTES 00:10 Interview Begins 00:40 Background on Jack and Agency Agile 01:24 How Jack ended up helping Digital Agencies adopt Agile 05:10 Trying out different types of Agile 06:10 Taking a job so you can run experiments in how to manage projects 08:12 You can’t make people trust 09:13 Jack’s initial questions for management: How much pain are you in? How much gain do you want? 09:52 What is the hardest part for a Digital Agency adopting Agile? 11:52 Transforming the agency AND their clients. Training is not enough 13:40 Do we need a new flavor of Agile tailored to Digital Agencies? 17:26 Does Agile actually make things work better? Are there actual business benefits? 18:38 How does AgencyAgile “sell” Agile to companies? 21:32 We need to stop disempower team members. They care as much as we do. 24:39 Can we actually get consistent cross-functional teams in an Agency? 25:22 Designing work stream teams of 25 26:07 Transforming the whole agency at once 27:31 Are there clients who are not ready to transform yet? 31:10 Letting go of learned behavior 32:30 What do we need for Agile to work in a Digital Agency? 33:19 Agile will work when it becomes a management initiative NOT a Project Management Initiative 34:53 How you can learn more about the AgencyAgile approach 36:10 Books about Agile that Jack recommends 37:00 Jack response to “We can’t do Agile because we’re fixed bid.” 38:10 Advice from Jack for those who want to adopt Agile in a digital agency 39:07 Where you can learn more about Jack 40:11 Interview Ends Links Mentioned in the Podcast 2017 Digital PM Summit: http://bureauofdigital.com/summits/digital-pm-2017/ Books by Bas Vodde and Craig Larman Practices for Scaling Lean & Agile Development http://amzn.to/2uCR6AV Scaling Lean & Agile Development http://amzn.to/2wXVKWG Contacting Jack: Website: https://www.agencyagile.com Blog: https://www.agencyagile.com/insights/ Medium: https://medium.com/@jackskeels Twitter : https://twitter.com/agencyagile LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/ If you are interested in this topic, please stay tuned for more. In preparation for a session I am leading at the 2017 Digital PM Summit (ttp://bureauofdigital.com/summits/digital-pm-2017/), I have been doing lots of interviews about how to make Agile work in a digital environment.

In this podcast, PebblePost’s VP of Marketing, Celeste Giampetro, talked with Dave about the importance of defining a good mission statement, why Marketing needs more generalists than specialists now, how to develop cross-functional teams, and leading with vulnerability. During the conversation, they also spent time discussing different leadership techniques that will help you get the most out of your team. SHOW NOTES 00:08 Podcast TLDR 01:44 Podcast Begins 02:11 Some background on Pebble Post and Celeste’s role there 03:31 Is having a mission statement or vision statement important? 04:03 What problem is Pebble Post solving and how are they solving it? 09:43 Why marketers need to focus on being more generalized than specialized. 11:49 When are you done being a startup? 12:58 How we ended up with so much specialization in the first place 13:48 How do you determine if your generalist actually has the focused skills you need. 15:09 How to find people who want to grow and then to mentor them 16:03 Leading with vulnerability and transparency 18:10 What value does a manager get from leading with vulnerability 19:42 An example of how leading with vulnerability and transparency backfired 20:31 The benefits of giving up the control and power; and how it can have a very positive impact on the organization 22:00 Making sure everyone knows the Mission and Vision Statement 22:18 Introducing cross-functionality into your team 24:08 Do Gen X and Millennials approach collaboration and cross-functionality differently? 25:18 What is the key to motivating people? “Can you extract from them their best work?” 27:07 The importance of learning about the people on your team before you start trying to direct their behavior. 28:07 On Managing people - “It’s al about relationship building” 28:55 Agile at PebblePost 30:32 Getting in touch with Celeste CONTACTING CELESTE Twitter https://twitter.com/stinapessa LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/celestegiampetro/ Pebble Post http://pebblepost.com CELESTE’S ARTICLE Step Aside, Specialist: Return Of The Marketing Generalist https://blog.pebblepost.com/dont-call-it-a-comeback-the-very-high-value-of-being-a-marketing-generalist

Laura Powers is has a LOT going on. She’s got a new role as Co-CEO of RADTAC US, she got classes coming up AND she has sessions set for Agile 2017 and the Scrum Gathering in Dublin. In this podcast I had the chance to catch up with Laura, hear about all she has going on, and we got to dig into the sessions she’ll be presenting at Agile 2017 and the Scrum Gathering in Dublin. SHOW NOTES 00:10 Interview Begins 01:03 Laura explains her new gig at Radtac US 02:15 Laura’s experience London following the recent attacks 02:56 Laura and Kim Brainard are giving some Training From the Back of the Room classes 05:03 Laura’s participation in the Women in Agile Event at Agile 2017 07:24 Laura’s talks at Agile 2017 07:48 What about The Power of Play? 14:12 The Difference between Culture and Climate 18:02 Laura’s upcoming session at the Scrum Gathering in Dublin and Say Yes to No! 19:50 Improv, the “Yes, and” culture and the Power of No 25:25 Saying YES! to more things than you can possibly do and how to fix that 27:58 Laura’s advice for newcomers attending Agile 2017 31:34 Getting in touch with Laura CONTACTING LAURA Radtac https://www.radtac.co.uk/about-us/page/3/ Twitter https://twitter.com/laurapowers Links from the Podcast - Radtac http://Radtac.com - Training from the BACK of the Room (Upcoming Class) w/ Kim Brainard Thursday, August 3, Orlando, FL https://www.eventbrite.com/e/training-from-the-back-of-the-room-tbr-1-day-graphic-facilitation-tickets-31829812827 LAURA’s PODCASTS Agile Games http://agilegamespodcast.com NLP Your Agile - Link will be updated soon Upcoming Events: Women in Agile at Agile 2017 Date:Sunday, August 6, 2017 Time: 1-5 PM Location: Orlando, FL - Rosen Shingle Creek Hotel (Agile2017) https://www.agilealliance.org/women-in-agile-2017/ Laura’s Sessions at Agile 2017 The Power of Play - Coaching Teams to Play at Work Wednesday, August 9, 10:45 AM http://sched.co/ATXu It’s Not Just About Culture: Co-creating an Awesome Agile Climate in an Imperfect World Thursday, August 10, 10:45 AM http://sched.co/ATWv Laura’s Session at Scrum Gathering Dublin Say "Yes" to "No": The Power of the "No" in Agile Tuesday, October 31, 11:00 AM https://www.scrumalliance.org/sgdub

If you are involved with Agile, the biggest event of the year is the conference hosted each summer by the Agile Alliance. Agile 2017 (https://www.agilealliance.org/agile2017/) kicks off on Sunday, August 6, 2017 and that means 2,500 Agilists will be descending on Orlando ready to pick up new techniques, share what they’ve learned and catch up with thought leaders and practitioners in the Agile space. The conference is MASSIVE and it would not be possible without the Purple Shirt People who volunteer at the conference. In exchange for getting to attend the conference, the folks in the purple shirts are the ones who can help you navigate the week. Whether you are a first timer wondering where to go, or a seasoned veteran giving a talk, we all depend on the generosity of the folks who give their time to help make the conference happen. In this podcast, Becky Hartman and Sarah Klarich share some details about volunteering at the conference, how it works, what you get in exchange for giving your time and how you can get more involved. If you are new to the conference, Becky and Sarah also share some tips on how to make it through the week and what to not miss. SHOW NOTES 00:10 Podcast Begins 00:47 Background on Sarah and Becky 01:33 Getting involved with volunteering at the Agile Conference 02:58 How many people will be expected at Agile 2017 03:30 How many people are part of the Volunteer Team at Agile 2017 03:52 The time commitment and getting to see sessions at Agile 2017 05:13 The type of work the Purple Shirts are expected to do a the Agile Conference 06:19 The benefits of volunteering at the Agile Conference 10:18 Advice from Becky and Sarah on how to get the most out your week in Orlando 13:15 Tips for volunteers who are extroverts (like Becky) 14:05 Watch the Grandma comments! 14:18 Advice for introverts (like Sarah) 15:05 Get ready for Agile Therapy and some other new events at Agile 2017! 16:36 Dealing with FOMO at Agile 2017 (You can’t see it all - take care of yourself!) 17:40 Finding your conference wingperson 19:44 Sarah and Becky’s must see events at Agile 2017 21:36 How to get on the Agile 2017 Volunteer Wait List (or submit your name for next year)

In each of my CSM and CSPO classes someone asks “Should I still get PMP?” In this podcast I got the chance to check in with Jesse Fewell on the value of certification. Jesse and I have been friends since 2008 when we both started working on trying to find ways to get PMI to pay attention to Agile. We both come from a traditional background, have been heavily involved with PMI and now make a living teaching Scrum certification classes. Jesse and I debate the answer to the PMP certification question and along the way, discuss our differing views on the value of PMI-ACP, CSM and CSPO certifications. These are things we don’t always see eye to eye on, so regardless of your viewpoint, there is sure to be something in here to help you see things from a different perspective. We also have a brief conversation about what do to about PMO’s in Agile organizations. Note: You may hear some odd background noise. This time it isn't me slurping coffee … #blamethefidgittoys Show Notes 00:08 Podcast Starts 00:34 An update on Jesse’s recent and upcoming Agile PMO sessions, VirtuallyAgile.com and his Certified Agile Leadership Training classes 07:53 Does PMP Certification still matter? And if you are working in Agile, do you still need it? 09:57 If you are a traditional PM, are you in danger of becoming unemployable if you do not have agile? 11:50 Can a traditional PM avoid the trap of thinking they “get” Agile before they actually do? 14:26 Jesse’s involvement with PMI-ACP, it’s evolution and current relevance 16:20 What can you expect of someone who has PMP or PMI-ACP Certification? 18:10 PMI and Agile Alliance collaboration and what we can expect to see from it 20:10 PMI is working with the Agile Alliance… “It’s like the X-Men and the Justice League tried to plan something together” 21:10 “Everyone has the same mission - improve outcomes and people doing their job well” 21:43 It’s not a “standard”, it’s a “guide” 22:07 How much Agile will be in the new (6th) edition of the PMBOK? 23:00 For the skeptics… there is good on both sides of PMI and the Agile Alliance working together 24:30 Understanding the distinction between the work done by PMI and the Agile Alliance (stabilize and align vs. disrupt) 26:42 Will there be a new Agile certification coming from PMI? 29:26 If you know a PMP trying to decide between taking a CSM or a PMI-ACP course and they need advice on what to take 32:42 Dave and Jesse debate whether getting PMP is still valuable for a CSM or CSPO 36:17 “Most Agile people are punching above their weight…” 39:18 What do we do about the PMO if our organization is adopting Agile? 44:22 Want more Jesse? Here is how to get it…. 45:02 Interview Ends Links Referenced in the Podcast The Hybrid PMO (part of Seminars World) http://bit.ly/2tbOvM5 Solving the PMO Paradox (at Agile 2017) http://bit.ly/2sJ8wJj Certifications and Agile Organizations Mentioned in the Podcast PMP Certification http://bit.ly/29NtawC PMI-ACP Certification https://www.pmi.org/certifications/types/agile-acp CSM Certification http://bit.ly/ZtotC1 CSPO Certification http://bit.ly/1HeXnC5 Certified Agile Leadership Certification https://www.scrumalliance.org/agile-leadership Agile Alliance: https://www.agilealliance.org Scrum Alliance: https://www.scrumalliance.org PMI: https://www.pmi.org/ IC Agile: https://icagile.com Contacting Jesse Website: http://www.jessefewell.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/jessefewell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessefewell/ Contacting Dave Website: https://drunkenpm.net Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrsungo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrsungo/

In each of my CSM and CSPO classes someone asks “Should I still get PMP?” In this podcast I got the chance to check in with Jesse Fewell on the value of certification. Jesse and I have been friends since 2008 when we both started working on trying to find ways to get PMI to pay attention to Agile. We both come from a traditional background, have been heavily involved with PMI and now make a living teaching Scrum certification classes. Jesse and I debate the answer to the PMP certification question and along the way, discuss our differing views on the value of PMI-ACP, CSM and CSPO certifications. These are things we don’t always see eye to eye on, so regardless of your viewpoint, there is sure to be something in here to help you see things from a different perspective. We also have a brief conversation about what do to about PMO’s in Agile organizations. Note: You may hear some odd background noise. This time it isn't me slurping coffee … #blamethefidgittoys Show Notes 00:08 Podcast Starts 00:34 An update on Jesse’s recent and upcoming Agile PMO sessions, VirtuallyAgile.com and his Certified Agile Leadership Training classes 07:53 Does PMP Certification still matter? And if you are working in Agile, do you still need it? 09:57 If you are a traditional PM, are you in danger of becoming unemployable if you do not have agile? 11:50 Can a traditional PM avoid the trap of thinking they “get” Agile before they actually do? 14:26 Jesse’s involvement with PMI-ACP, it’s evolution and current relevance 16:20 What can you expect of someone who has PMP or PMI-ACP Certification? 18:10 PMI and Agile Alliance collaboration and what we can expect to see from it 20:10 PMI is working with the Agile Alliance… “It’s like the X-Men and the Justice League tried to plan something together” 21:10 “Everyone has the same mission - improve outcomes and people doing their job well” 21:43 It’s not a “standard”, it’s a “guide” 22:07 How much Agile will be in the new (6th) edition of the PMBOK? 23:00 For the skeptics… there is good on both sides of PMI and the Agile Alliance working together 24:30 Understanding the distinction between the work done by PMI and the Agile Alliance (stabilize and align vs. disrupt) 26:42 Will there be a new Agile certification coming from PMI? 29:26 If you know a PMP trying to decide between taking a CSM or a PMI-ACP course and they need advice on what to take 32:42 Dave and Jesse debate whether getting PMP is still valuable for a CSM or CSPO 36:17 “Most Agile people are punching above their weight…” 39:18 What do we do about the PMO if our organization is adopting Agile? 44:22 Want more Jesse? Here is how to get it…. 45:02 Interview Ends Links references in the podcast: The Hybrid PMO (part of Seminars World) http://bit.ly/2tbOvM5 Solving the PMO Paradox (at Agile 2017) http://bit.ly/2sJ8wJj Certifications and Agile Organizations Mentioned in the Podcast PMP Certification http://bit.ly/29NtawC PMI-ACP Certification https://www.pmi.org/certifications/types/agile-acp CSM Certification http://bit.ly/ZtotC1 CSPO Certification http://bit.ly/1HeXnC5 Certified Agile Leadership Certification https://www.scrumalliance.org/agile-leadership Agile Alliance: https://www.agilealliance.org Scrum Alliance: https://www.scrumalliance.org PMI: https://www.pmi.org/ IC Agile: https://icagile.com Contacting Jesse: Website: http://www.jessefewell.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/jessefewell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessefewell/ Contacting Dave Website: https://drunkenpm.net Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrsungo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrsungo/

Parikshit Basrur works in Sydney, Australia as a Management Consultant who focuses on leadership, strategy and execution. He comes from a strong traditional project management background but for the past few years he has been working in a senior leadership role within an organization that has been undergoing a transformation to Agile. This work, and Parikshit’s unique way of looking at managing work has led him to develop an Agile Transformation Playbook. In this interview, we discuss his approach to working with and transitioning to agile, the importance of focusing on culture, his take on the agile vs. traditional debate and his upcoming sessions at the Hindsight Forum where he will be giving a presentation on how to establish agile practices in a well-established business. Show Notes 00:12 Interview begins 00:33 Background on Parikshit 01:52 Parikshit’s transition from waterfall to Agile 05:00 The difference between being Agile and doing Agile 07:15 Finding the right tools and delivering work 08:12 Speaking with Stakeholders Executives about Enterprise Transformation 12:03 Responding to the “WE HAVE TO SHIP NOW!” attitude and understanding WHY Agile? 17:15 Helping stakeholders appreciate how hard transformation can be 19:10 The McDonald’s Drive Thru version of Agile 22:30 Agile needs to be like air 23:35 Change your culture first… help them stay away from the candy on the table 27:40 Creating the desire for change 29:50 How the Agile Transformation Playbook differs from other transformation approaches 32:35 Where to find the Agile Transformation Playbook, seeing Parikshit’s upcoming presentations 33:15 Where to reach Parikshit 33:39 Interview Ends To learn more about the Agile Transformation Playbook Slideshare: http://bit.ly/2s0TKvy Medium: http://bit.ly/2rlv3YD YouTube: https://youtu.be/js96mF3X_fw Parikshit’s upcoming sessions at the Hindsight Forum HindSight Forum http://www.hindsightforum.com/events/ Melbourne - June 21, 2017 Sydney - June 22, 2017 Contacting Parikshit LinkedIn: http://bit.ly/2rg8z06 Twitter: https://twitter.com/parikshitbasrur