

Disorder
Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts
Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder. The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues. At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’. Website: https://disordershow.com/
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 12, 2024 • 1h 5min
Ep28. The Rematch of the Disorderer-in-Chief vs Joseph Robinette Status-Quo Jr.
The podcast discusses the potential rematch between Trump and Biden in the upcoming US Presidential Elections, the global implications of their contrasting approaches, the shifting dynamics within the Republican party, and the strategic importance of leadership in geopolitics. They explore perception issues surrounding Biden's presidency, historical party dynamics, and strategies for reordering American politics. Additionally, they reflect on the 2022 midterms aftermath and the contrasting political appeals of Trump and Biden.

Mar 5, 2024 • 49min
Ep27. Can we Order the entire cosmos – along with our alien friends?
When it comes to working together to face external challenges, no challenge could be greater than extraterrestrial life… and this seemingly abstract problem could be more pressing than you think. In 2023, Air Force Colonel David Grusch spoke before Congress to present his firsthand evidence of alien spacecraft remains and non-human ‘biologics’. In his testimony, he claimed that parts of the United States Government and defense contractors were hiding these facts from disclosure to Congress. So, in response, the Senate unanimously passed what is known as the ‘UAP Disclosure Act’ -- legislation which would compel defense contractors and the CIA to disclose all information to Congress and then mandate a structured disclosure of parts of this sensitive information to the public. The parts of this act which grant Congress enforcement power are being held up by a handful of Congressmen in the House. But do Colonel Grush’s claims hold any weight? And if they did, would global powers successfully co-ordinate on issues pertaining to extraterrestrial life? And why aren’t parts of the US Government sharing information with other parts of USG? To answer those questions and more, Jason Pack is joined by Daniel Sheehan. Daniel is the head of the New Paradigm Institute. A Harvard educated civil rights lawyer who has worked on many high profile cases like Watergate, Daniel tells Jason about his discussions with Gorbachev about UAPs, why he believes information about UAPs is being withheld, and why he thinks releasing this ‘information’ to the world is the right thing to do. Meanwhile, Alex and Jason discuss: why Daniel’s argument of a ‘shadow government’ feels unlikely, their own experience of times when governments don’t share information coherently between departments, and whether Colonel Grusch feels like a credible whistleblower. Twitter: @DisorderShow Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/ Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Show Notes Links US Congress passes stripped-down measure to release UFO records: link UAP disclosure bill revised; two key provisions stripped, read here About the New Paradigm Institute: https://newparadigminstitute.org/ For more Sheehan’s advocacy head here Read a reputable British science journalist’s take of Congressional UAP issues here Listen to Sheehan on the Lede Podcast talking more about the details of the UAP disclosure Act here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feb 27, 2024 • 59min
Ep26. Was Alexei Navalny a Martyr for Democracy?
Discussing the lack of real action following Navalny's murder, the podcast explores the need for concrete consequences for Putin's regime. Bill Browder shares emotions on Navalny's death, calls for seizing Russian assets, and freeing opposition leaders. The episode reflects on the chaos in Russia, the sophistication of Putin's criminal network, and the urgency of securing political prisoners' release. Humor in dark times, reflections on justice, and promoting audience engagement are also highlighted.

Feb 22, 2024 • 43min
Bonus Episode: How should the West respond to Navalny’s murder: Can the Munich Security Conference help order that response?
Wars are raging in Ukraine and the Middle East. Russia’s most famous opposition politician (Alexei Navalany) has just been murdered. Meanwhile, the international institutions set up after World War 2 to uphold peace and security no longer seem fit for purpose. Into this space comes the annual Munich Security Forum. Its flagship event, which took place last weekend, is its gathering of hundreds of the world’s top security experts and decision makers in Munich each year, to debate – and hopefully come up with solutions for - the world’s most pressing security concerns. Last year, despite the ongoing war in Ukraine, the conference took place in relatively optimistic circumstances: the Ukrainians were putting up a plucky defence, while the euro-atlantic alliance seemed to have found new purpose. This year is a different story. Russia has just taken the city of Avdiivka, while international support for Ukraine is wavering. And on the very opening day of the conference, the shocking news broke that Russia’s most prominent opposition politician, Alexei Navalny, had died in prison. So what was the mood like at this year’s conference, and how should the euro-atlantic community respond to these challenges? To answer those questions, Alex Hall Hall was joined by Nico Lange – a senior fellow at the Munich Security Conference and a former Chief of Staff at the German Ministry of Defence. In this episode the pair discuss: what were the main takeaways from the conference, the need for European powers to step up their aid to Ukraine, and why expanding the EU and NATO is vital for international security. Twitter: @DisorderShow Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/ Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Show Notes Links Read Nico Lange’s article ‘In a critical situation for Ukraine, it is down to the Europeans’ here And for an overview of many issues relating to Navalny’s death and Western and Russian politicians reactions to it here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feb 20, 2024 • 53min
Ep25. Could Artificial Intelligence-powered disinformation campaigns cause electoral mayhem?
Discover the dangers of AI in elections with deep fakes and manipulation tactics. Former DHS Chief of Staff discusses risks post-Trump administration. Explore potential threats of AI-powered disinformation campaigns globally using deep fakes. Learn about cybersecurity solutions and challenges in combating fake news.

Feb 15, 2024 • 53min
Bonus Episode: What has sixty years on planet earth taught Alex? Plus, listener questions.
As Alex turns 60, she and Jason look back at how the world has changed since she first decided to enter the diplomatic service. Meanwhile, Jason explains how his ‘lived experiences’ across the Middle East have shaped the way he views American foreign policy. The Boomer vs Gen X dynamics are laid bared for all to see. Then the duo answer listener questions: namely, what UK/US support for Israel should look like, why some countries are less corrupt than others and what role Western powers should play in post-conflict zones. Finally, as they Order the Disorder, Alex and Jason talk about the need to be courageous in trying to bring interim governance to post-War Gaza, and the importance of maintaining moral clarity. Twitter: @DisorderShow Subscribe to our Substack here Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/ Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feb 13, 2024 • 43min
Ep24. What does South Africa stand to gain from accusing Israel of Genocide in Gaza?
Exploring South Africa's accusations of genocide against Israel, historical ties between the two countries, implications for global politics, and debates on moral stances and hypocrisy. The podcast delves into South Africa's evolving role in geopolitics, the complex historical connections between South Africa and Israel, and the perceived Western hypocrisy in moral pronouncements.

Feb 6, 2024 • 1h
Ep23. Is the democratic world morally responsible for allowing Putin's rise? With Evgenia Kara-Murza
In April 2022, undeterred by his previous two poisonings, Russian opposition politician, historian, and free speech advocate Vladimir Kara-Murza made the incredibly courageous decision to re-enter Russia – despite his known opposition to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine two months earlier. What happened next was as tragic as it was predictable. A year later Vladimir was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Last Monday, he disappeared from the Siberian penal colony where he was being held, only much later re-emerging in solitary confinement in a different prison. In this episode of Disorder, we speak to Evgenia Kara-Murza, a Russian human rights activist and Vladimir’s wife. Evgenia shares about her upbringing in Russia’s Far East, how her husband was imprisoned while working to improve the country, and how what is happening within Russia “hurts” her deeply. She also unpacks how Western leaders bear significant responsibility for the direction taken by the regime of Vladimir Putin – to her mind choosing cowardice and to make money over the safeguarding of human rights. Evgenia finishes the interview talking about how already democratic countries need to stay alert and safeguard their rights and freedoms. To her, the full-scale invasion of Ukraine has shown: democracy is under threat – globally. Twitter: @DisorderShow Subscribe to our Substack here Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/ Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Show Notes Links Read Evgenia’s interview for Time here Watch Vladimir’s documentary here A profile on Vladimir by Meduza here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feb 1, 2024 • 19min
Bonus Episode: Can the Two Matts Help Us Order the Disorder?
We wanted to let you all in on a well guarded secret: there are actually other podcasts out there that try to Order the Disorder. The team behind the New European magazine produce a podcast called ‘The Two Matts’. We were really inspired by their recent treatment of how Germany is dealing with its neopopulism problem. In this bonus episode of Disorder, we present an excerpt from The Two Matts Jan 26th Show ‘Germany Fighting Fascism’ where Matt and Matt talk about the massive street protests against the AfD and the unique constitutional ways in which Germany can fight the rise of neopopulism. Show Notes Links Listen to the Two Matts here Read Jason Pack’s recent article in The New European about how Bibi is just a run of the mill neopopulist here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 30, 2024 • 60min
Ep22. What are Iran’s and Egypt’s roles in the evolving Middle East crisis?
This week we examine the regional roles played by Egypt and Iran and discuss British diplomacy towards those countries over the last decade or so. Iran and Egypt offer a fascinating study in contrasts – in terms of their dealings with Israel and Hamas, as well as their posturing relative to the outside world. So who better to help us understand these countries regional role than Alex’s former boss, Sir Geoffrey Adams, who served as British Ambassador both to Iran (2006-9) and to Egypt (2018-21). He served also as Consul General in Jerusalem, the representative to the Palestinian Authority; as Foreign Office Director for the Middle East, and as DG Political – the chief political advisor in the Foreign Office. He is now an honorary lecturer at the Institute for Iranian Studies at the University of St Andrews. Sir Geoffrey relates his experiences of how diplomacy ‘feels’ in Tehran and Cairo and explains why medium powers like Egypt and Iran cannot be dictated to by disunited Western powers. Alex and Jason try to Order the Disorder by discussing Iran’s role as a disordering power, Egypt’s role as a mediating one, and why the medium powers in the region need to step up. Twitter: @DisorderShow Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disorderpod/ Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Show Notes Links Sir Geoffrey’s FCDO bio is available hereHis ‘Reflections on the Arab Spring Ten Years On’ can be accessed here For more on the role of Iran as Disorderer please consult Ali Ansari in Ep4 here For more on the regional role of Egypt and why Gaza is existential for Egypt according to Nathan Brown: pls consult in Ep16. The Struggle for Leadership of the Islamic World here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices