Conflict Decoded Podcast

Shiree Teng—community organizer, storyteller, and healer. She believes that love and courage will lead the way towards our collective liberation. Shiree speaks with Katherine about how to center radical love in our work for change. With a mixture of grace and conviction, Shiree offers guidance for how to align your life with your truth and a fierce love for yourself and others. Without cultivating love for ourselves and each other, we risk only scratching the surface, endlessly circling around the work needed for our shared liberation. A commitment to radical love makes the work rigorous. About Shiree Teng: An immigrant kid who grew up organizing, Shiree Teng has never stopped. For over 35 years. Shiree has worked as a consultant to foundations, nonprofits, and grassroots collectives. Leading strategy, measuring impact, and centering the voices of those most impacted by racism and oppression. Shiree's mission is to inspire us to prioritize love as the catalyst for our freedom. She believes that we are worthy and deserving of our liberation and insists that we start with our own radical self-love. Learn About Shiree’s Work: shireeteng.org Read: Measuring Love, Shiree’s First Brown Paper  Healing Love, Shiree’s Second Brown Paper Love Letters to Changemakers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the fight ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Changemakers.

If we are to survive the current and looming environmental and economic emergencies and grow communities in which we thrive, we need to be able to relate and work together across difference. In this episode, Carmen Spagnola teaches the building blocks for cultivating secure attachment—the ability to help ourselves and others feel safe, seen, secure, and soothed—even with people we’re most challenged by. About Carmen Spagnola: Carmen Spagnola is a Le Cordon Bleu-trained chef turned trauma recovery practitioner, clinical hypnotherapist, and kitchen witch. She is author of Spells for the Apocalypse: Practical Magic for Turbulent Times and The Spirited Kitchen: Recipes & Rituals for the Wheel of the Year. Carmen is host of The Numinous Podcast and founder of The Numinous Network, an online learning and support portal for people healing from trauma through a cross-pollination of somatics, attachment, and nature-based spirituality. Work With Carmen: Carmen’s courses on attachment and Contact Nutrition are included in her membership site, The Numinous Network: carmenspagnola.com/the-numinous-network carmenspagnola.com Read: Spells for the Apocalypse: Practical Magic for Turbulent Times The Spirited Kitchen: Recipes & Rituals for the Wheel of the Year Learn More: Collapse in a Nutshell, Numinous Podcast Episode #161 The Numinous Podcast Instagram TikTok Related Podcast Episodes from Katherine: Six Steps to Self-Resonance with Katherine Golub How Self-Resonance Heals the Brain & Helps Us Discern with Katherine Golub The Neuroscience of Human Connection with Sarah Peyton Healing Intergenerational Trauma, Part One with Francesca Mason Boring Attachment Assessments: Diane Poole Heller’s Attachment Styles Test Your Attachment Styles Over Time Love Letters to Changemakers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the fight ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Changemakers.

We have good reason to feel scared about what’s happening nationally and globally. And yet, as Sulma Arias, Executive Director of Peoples’ Action, reminds us in this week’s podcast, there are so many incredible opportunities for change in our own local communities. Whether it’s removing lead from the school playground or installing a stop sign where the kids are playing, we often have the most power to create change at home. And when we build relationships with our neighbors, we also build the power to win the next fight and thrive together. Sulma Arias brings a vision and optimism that serves as an inspiring salve for these times. Listen in and gain inspiration for how you might build power toward change in your community. About Sulma: Sulma immigrated to Kansas from El Salvador at the age of 12 and ultimately went on to lead Sunflower Community Action, where she trained organizers and built a base of volunteers to fight for driver’s licenses and tuition access for immigrants and fighting harmful policies during the Kris Kobach era. Sulma worked for (National) People’s Action on national campaigns and strengthening community organizing. And also led the Fair Immigration Reform Movement in the fight for immigration reform. And against the harmful policies coming out of the Trump administration for years. Sulma took over as Executive Director of People’s Action in 2022. And is leading the charge to build a nationwide Organizing Revival to rebuild and reinvigorate the field of organizing to build community power across the country. Get involved: PeoplesAction.org Read: The Antidote to Authoritarianism Receive Love Letters to Changemakers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the fight ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Organizers.

In part two of our conversation with Francesca Mason-Boring, we explore how to help well and shore ourselves up for the work of social justice. We discuss how to release demonizing and patronizing ways of seeing each other. And approach our work from a strong, clear place, disentangled from the traumas of the past. This podcast is part two to a two-part episode. In Part One, Francesca introduced family systems constellations and its indigenous roots of this methodology. Part Two dives deeper into key principles for transforming conflict in movement work. About Francesca Mason Boring: Francesca Mason Boring, bicultural Western Shoshone enrolled with the Shoshone Paiute. She is an internationally beloved author, teacher, and facilitator of Family, Human & Natural Systems Constellation. And Constellation as Ceremony as transformational work. Working with universal indigenous fields in family constellations, Francesca has supported the development of constellations as ceremony, community constellations, and nature constellations. Walking with the ancestors, Francesca introduces respect, and the incorporation of ancient healing wisdom traditions and ritual in life and systems constellations. Although Family Constellation may be therapeutic, Francesca does not present it as therapy. She describes this method as “one of the most profoundly beautiful healing paths that can be taken, an extension of ceremony, a road of indigenous healing.” Learn More: All My Relations Constellations Books By Francesca The Orders of Helping, Bert Hellinger Love Letters to Organizers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the work ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Organizers.

Francesca Mason-Boring is one of Katherine’s most beloved and influential teachers. She introduces listeners to family systems constellations, a profound healing modality for transforming intergenerational trauma. This podcast is part one to a two-part episode. In Part One, Francesca shares about the indigenous roots of this methodology. How it can support the healing of collective traumas that can make our work so challenging. And how we might reclaim our relationship with our ancestors. Part Two dives deeper into key principles for transforming conflict in movement work. About Francesca Mason Boring: Francesca Mason Boring, bicultural Western Shoshone enrolled with the Shoshone Paiute. She is an internationally beloved author, teacher, and facilitator of Family, Human & Natural Systems Constellation. And Constellation as Ceremony as transformational work. Working with universal indigenous fields in family constellations, Francesca has supported the development of constellations as ceremony, community constellations, and nature constellations. Walking with the ancestors, Francesca introduces respect, and the incorporation of ancient healing wisdom traditions and ritual in life and systems constellations. Although Family Constellation may be therapeutic, Francesca does not present it as therapy.  She describes this method as “one of the most profoundly beautiful healing paths that can be taken, an extension  of ceremony, a road of indigenous healing.” Learn More: All My Relations Constellations Books By Francesca The Orders of Helping, Bert Hellinger Love Letters to Organizers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the work ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Organizers.

How do we make decisions that honor everyone’s needs, even in high stakes situations? Katherine explores this question with Miki Kashtan, founder of the Nonviolent Global Liberation community and the creator of Convergent Facilitation. In these times, we need new, revolutionary processes to help us get underneath the surface of our conflicts and listen for what is truly needed. Convergent Facilitation can help us widen the aperture of our imagination, hear the deeper needs beneath the strategies we argue for. And arrive at durable decisions that all coworkers, collaborators or coalition members can feel good about. Miki’s Offerings: Miki Kashtan is dedicated to distributing leadership, power, and vision within all of her offerings, so her work can outlive her. Check out her transformative offerings here: Convergent Facilitation Nonviolent Global Liberation The Fearless Heart Nonviolent Activism for Liberation (monthly coaching calls for activists around the world) Love Letters to Organizers: To receive new episodes to your inbox along with other nourishment for the work ahead, subscribe to Love Letters for Organizers.

Have you not known whether to speak up when hearing someone make a harmful comment? Wondered how to center the impacted person without causing further harm? Or what to say when you do speak up? If so, I hope you’ll tune in to the latest episode of Conflict Decoded—How to Address Harmful Impact with Nonviolent Communication—with clinical psychologist and Nonviolent Communication trainer @RoxanneManning. Nonviolent Communication (NVC) has been one of my closest allies in learning to speak up as a bystander to harm. This episode offers a basic primer on NVC and a practical exploration of how to use NVC to speak up about harmful impact. Whether you’re brand-new to NVC or a long-time practitioner, if you’re committed to communicating skillfully—especially as a bystander to harm—I think you’ll get a lot out of this actionable, rich conversation. About Roxy Manning, PhD. Roxy Manning, PhD is a clinical psychologist and certified Center for Nonviolent Communication trainer with decades of experience interrupting oppressive attitudes and cultural norms. Dr. Manning has worked, consulted, and provided training across the US and internationally with organizations working to move towards equitable and diverse workplace cultures. She also works as a psychologist in San Francisco serving people experiencing homelessness and disenfranchised mentally ill population. She is the author of How to Have Antiracist Conversations: Embracing Our Full Humanity to Challenge White Supremacy and the co-author with Sarah Peyton of The Antiracist Heart: A Self-Compassion and Activism Handbook. Dr. Manning also cohosts the podcast, Fierce Compassion with Sarah Peyton. Links to Roxy Manning’s Resources: Roxannemanning..com How to Have Anti-Racist Conversations, by Roxy Manning The Anti-Racist Heart, by Roxy Manning and Sarah Peyton Roxy’s Workshops & Trainings The Fierce Compassion Podcast, with Roxy Manning and Sarah Peyton Resources from Katherine related to Nonviolent Communication & this Podcast: How to Make Skillful Requests (NVC-Style Journaling) Why We Get Stuck & How to Shift Perspective The Neuroscience of Human Connection, Podcast Episode with Sarah Peyton The Emotions Wheel & Feelings List The Needs List Additional Resources: Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life, by Marshall Rosenberg Say What You Mean: A Mindful Approach to Nonviolent Communication, by Oren J. Sofer

Earlier this year, I experienced a conflict in my role as a city councilor that was very hard for me to understand. It was one of those moments that felt very confusing. Like what was going on had way more to do with dynamics below the surface, in the group’s unconscious, than it had to do with the actual content we were discussing. In an effort to make sense of things, I discovered the field of systems psychodynamics or group relations. Learning about the topics we discussed in today’s episode—projections, projective identifications, valences, scapegoating, BART (boundaries, authority, role, and task), and more—helped me make sense of what was going on and repair trust in a trying time. Today’s Guest: Dr. Tracy Wallach In this episode of Conflict Decoded, I speak with Dr. Tracy Wallach (PhD, MSW), an expert in systems psychodynamics, about how understanding group dynamics can illuminate the root causes of conflict and pave the way for healthier, more effective teamwork. Tracy is a leadership coach, advisor, trainer, and Senior Lecturer in the Gender, Leadership and Public Policy Program at UMass Boston. She brings decades of experience in helping leaders and teams navigate the complex terrain of human behavior within organizations, offering a perspective that blends psychoanalysis, open systems theory, conflict transformation, and group behavior insights. Tracy’s expertise in systems psychodynamics has guided countless leaders toward self-awareness, clarity, and constructive conflict transformation. In This Episode, We Cover: 1. How to Identify and Address Scapegoating in Teams: Scapegoating happens when a group’s problems are unfairly pinned on one individual, which often masks deeper group issues. Tracy shares ways to recognize when scapegoating is at play—like when a single person is consistently blamed—and explains how to shift focus back to the team’s shared responsibilities. By encouraging open discussions, you can help the group see the bigger picture and avoid the trap of assigning blame to one person. 2. Practical Tools for Discerning Between Projections & Useful Feedback: Projections occur when someone unconsciously attributes their own feelings or traits onto another person, which often creates confusion in conflict. Tracy explains how to discern whether feedback reflects genuine concerns or is actually a projection. She suggests pausing to ask yourself whether the feedback resonates with your self-perception or might reveal the other person’s unresolved feelings. With this clarity, you can approach conflict with empathy and a clear perspective. 3. Using Your ‘Valences’ to Take an Effective Role in Teams We each bring unique tendencies, or "valences," into group settings, often unconsciously stepping into roles that align with our strengths and personalities. Tracy introduces the “role biography” exercise to help you reflect on how these tendencies have shaped your past roles. By visualizing your history within various group settings, you gain insight into the roles that suit you best and can choose where you’ll thrive within your current team. 4. The BART Model: A Guide to Clarifying Roles and Resolving Conflict: The BART model (Boundaries, Authority, Role, Task) is a powerful tool for creating role clarity and cohesion within teams. Tracy recommends starting with a shared understanding of the group’s mission and task, then discussing roles with team members to align expectations. This model helps prevent misunderstandings and gives teams a structured approach to resolving conflicts rooted in role confusion. Episode Highlights: "Once we understand how unconscious patterns affect group behavior, we can bring new awareness to our teams, helping to unlock healthier ways of relating." "Often, our struggles in conflict have less to do with individual behavior and more to do with unresolved dynamics in the group as a whole." "The BART model provides leaders with a way to assess and realign roles, authority, and boundaries, clarifying the path to a stronger, more cohesive team." Reflective Prompts for Listeners: Think of a time when you felt tension in a team. What role did you play, and how might group dynamics have shaped your experience? Consider how projections might be showing up in your team. Is there someone being held responsible for issues that may reflect broader group challenges? Reflect on the concept of valences. Are there tendencies you bring to work situations that influence your role within a team, consciously or not? Resources Mentioned: Tracy Wallach’s YouTube Channel: Group Relations Theory and Practice – for more in-depth insights on systems psychodynamics Role Biography Exercise Video: Watch Here The BART Model Article (Boundaries, Authority, Role, Task): Read Here Connect with Dr. Tracy Wallach: Website: tracywallach.com LinkedIn: Tracy Wallach on LinkedIn Instagram: @dr.tracywallach Join Dr. Wallach’s Online Group Coaching Program: Learn More Hear More Episodes & Receive Love Letters to Changemakers! Stay connected for more insightful episodes on understanding group dynamics, transforming conflict, and building resilient, compassionate teams. When you subscribe to my Love Letters to Changemakers, you'll receive personal reflections, powerful insights, and practical guidance straight to your inbox—delivered every two weeks or so. These letters are crafted to uplift and inspire you, offering the support and clarity you need to make a bigger impact with ease and joy. I’d be honored to share them with you!

Somatics practitioner and anti-racist trainer, Dara Silverman, reminds us this week that to build strong movements, those of us who are committed to bringing forth a world in which all peoples’ needs are met, will need to offer ourselves and each other softness in these times. When we write people off, point fingers in blame, and narrow our tent, our movements grow smaller and lose. To build movements with the capacity to win, we must call each other in with fierce compassion. We must build relationships around what we care about, day in and day out, not just during election season. We must be in community, listen to our neighbors, and build relationships with the people we disagree with. When we do this, we expand the possibility of bringing forward the world we long for. I hope so much that you’ll take solace in this episode and find inspiration here for the time ahead. Guest Bio: Dara Silverman is a white, queer, Jewish consultant, somatic coach, and trainer with twenty-five years in with organizations and movements for social, racial, economic and gender justice. She leads embodied leadership trainings for racial justice organizers through Embodying Racial Justice. She is based in Beacon, NY where she grows eight kinds of berries. Resources and Links Dara Silverman’s Work Dara Silverman: darasilverman.com or follow on Instagram @dara_silverman Opening to Freedom: Year-long program for white racial justice leaders and organizers in the pacific Northwest- info and application for 2025 here. Centering Practices Dara’s Centering Practice: Practice Here Somatic Practices for Social Change (My video library, which includes the centering practice we talked about) Related Episodes The Social Change Ecosystem Map, Conflict Decoded episode with Deepa Iyer Referenced Resources Karen Horney- Visions of the Self Embodiment Institute Daniel Hunter Resources: 10 Steps for Staying Grounded and Prepared Now That Trump Has Won What if Trump Wins?: Interactive game by Daniel Hunter Dean Spade: Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During This Crisis Alicia Lieberman Jason Crandall, yoga teacher- short practice, every day Joshua Kahn Russell and Michael Strom: Healthy Group Accountability: Learning How to Learn, Briana Herman-Brand: From Rupture to Repair Dante King: Diagnosing Anti-Blackness- Concepts on white solidarity language Piper Anderson: Building a Culture of accountability Patrice Cullors: An Abolitionist’s Handbook Co-LAB Collective: Leadership by Monica Dennis, Maura Bairley, and Viveka Chen, focusing on social justice and coalition building. Loretta Ross: TED Talk on “Calling In” as opposed to “Calling Out” Somatic Resources: Strozzi Institute Generative Somatics BOLD (Black Organizing for Leadership and Dignity): Somatic training organization for Black organizers. Politics of Trauma by Staci K. Haines

Does someone in your workplace, community, or another realm of your life frustrate or disappoint you? Do you want to know how to give them some feedback without damaging the relationship? I recently found myself in a situation like this, and my podcast guest this week, Heather Younger, organizational culture strategist and leading expert on active listening at work, reminded me of exactly what I needed to hear— When we invest attention in showing people we care about them and that we have their backs, they’re far more apt to listen when it comes time for us to tell them something that may otherwise be hard to hear. I put her advice to the text a couple days later, and I was delighted how well my feedback landed. If you want some support in delivering potentially hard-to-hear feedback, I hope you’ll listen to this week’s episode of Conflict Decoded—How to Deliver Hard-to-Hear Feedback. Show Notes How to Deliver Hard-to-Hear Feedback with Heather Younger Is there someone in your workplace, community, or family who’s been frustrating or disappointing you? Do you wish you could let them know their impact without damaging your relationship? I recently found myself in a situation like this, and my podcast guest this week, Heather Younger reminded me of exactly what I needed to hear— When we invest attention in showing people that we care about them, they’re far more apt to listen when it comes time for us to tell them something that may be hard to hear. Our Guest: Heather Younger In this week’s episode of Conflict Decoded—How to Deliver Hard-to-Hear Feedback—I interviewed Heather Younger, founder & CEO of Employee Fanatix, leading employee engagement and consulting firm, highly sought-after keynote speaker, an organizational culture strategist, and expert on active listening at work. Drawing from her personal experiences as the only child of an interfaith and interracial marriage and backed by research relevant to what’s happening now, Heather is committed to inspiring leaders and team members to flex their empathy muscles and master the art of active listening to ensure everyone including prospects, customers, and employees feels valued, heard, and supported. She is a two-time TEDx speaker, bestselling author, podcast host, and a trusted contributor to leading news outlets. To learn more about Heather’s work, visit heatheryounger.com. Katherine’s Key Takeaways: 1.  The Pre-Work Really Matters: When we demonstrate care, respect, and support for someone over time, it becomes far easier to let them know when they’re having a hurtful impact. When they know you care, they’re likely to want to hear what you have to say. Demonstrating this care doesn’t have to take a lot of time. It’s the little things that count: Checking in about their health Thanking them for their positive contribution Making eye contact Saying hello The more we invest in the little moments, the easier the challenging moments become. 2.  The Conversation Deserves Time: Rather than giving feedback in front of other people during a meeting (which can quickly lead to defensiveness!), take the conversation offline. Take time to center yourself and process what you want to say. Then, ask the person for time to talk. Choose a time when you can both give your full attention. Likewise, anticipate that the other person may need time to process your conversation before acting on your feedback. And if someone gives you hard-to-hear feedback, let them know that you need some time to process and plan a time to come back. 2.  The Frame Matters. Before delivering feedback, take time to reflect on what the other person cares about and how they process information. Do your best to frame your feedback in a way that takes this information into account. For example, if they’re a numbers person, see if you can speak in numbers. If they value efficiency, see if you can speak to the energy their actions take. The more we can speak in a way that fits the person’s values and filters, the easier it will be for them to hear us. 4.  There’s Always More to the Picture Than We Know. Too often, people jump to conclusions. They believe they have the complete picture and demonize the other person. But we never have the whole picture. To change someone’s mind, we first need to understand where their mind is at. Rather than going in guns blazing or trying to convince the other person to change, get curious. Ask yourself: Are you willing to be molded, changed, convinced, interested? If not, see how you can get willing. Too often, we get stuck in conflict when we don’t take the time—or gather the courage—to share the things that need saying. Please don’t let yourself stay stuck. If you want some support in delivering potentially hard-to-hear feedback, I hope you’ll listen. Show Links: Heather Younger The Art of Active Listening