The Leadership Podcast

Dr. Zoe Chance is a professor at the Yale School of Management, and is the author of Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen. Her framework for behavior change is the foundation for Google's global food policy. In this conversation, Zoe describes forms of influence and discusses how good relationships lead to good work. She challenges the people to use influence for the greater good, not just for individual purposes. https://bit.ly/TLP-322 Key Takeaways [2:11] Zoe, a sci-fi fan, named her daughter Ripley after Ellen Ripley from Aliens. [5:16] Almost all of us, even the most successful, have negative feelings about influence strategies or tactics, but almost all of us would also like to be more influential. Influence has a bad rap. We think of it as distasteful. With new science, Zoe is bringing back the idea of influence as a leadership trait. [7:06] People have different definitions of influence and manipulation. Zoe considers influence to be anything that shifts someone's thinking or behavior, including manipulation, persuasion, behavioral economics, coercion, military might, and incentives. Manipulation is someone trying to influence a person in an underhanded way with a motive that does not align with the well-being of the person. [8:13] Behavioral economics nudges are mostly imperceptible, but would not be upsetting to people being influenced for their best interest, such as attempts to get people to save more for retirement. [9:48] Over the past year, up to the rise of bad inflation, employees have had a lot of power, and companies were desperate to hire. There's been a crisis in the service industry. Now the power is shifting to employers. They want people to be there but, for the most part, they don't have good reasons for wanting people to be there. Humu's Laszlo Bock asks, "Why, to look over their shoulder?" [11:51] Jan, Zoe, and Jim discuss whether most companies need to have their employees in the office, and how the return to the office is being handled. [13:51] Jim finds that in-person meetings are much more effective than online meetings that are filled with side-text meetings within the meeting. Jim also observes the need to train new college graduates in the culture of the organization. A culture needs to be maintained and groomed like a garden and that happens better in person. [15:31] Zoe would like to see leaders be better able to create the culture that they want. Bringing people back to the office to experience a negative culture is a horrible plan. [17:19] Jim contrasts the freedom of travel and the restrictions of the cube farm he experienced early in his career. He didn't like working in a cube and it affected his career. Now, since the pandemic, everyone has enjoyed freedom, and once freedom has been enjoyed it's hard for it to be taken away. Zoe says taking freedoms and privileges away will cause a rebellion; she shares an example from a bank. [20:26] Zoe shares a story featuring the Magic Question "What would it take for that to never happen again?", and how to use it. It acknowledges that the people you are trying to influence know much more about their life than you do. It's not perceived as pressure to follow your advice and it can lead to a commitment to the positive outcome you want. [26:05] Zoe gives a shoutout to the veterans who come through the Yale School of Management. The professors love to have veterans in their classes because they are good listeners, and pay attention to the professors, their colleagues, and their classmates. They amplify other people's ideas and ask follow-up questions; they only speak when they feel they have something important to share. [28:16] Zoe tells about her TEDx talk, "How to Make a Behavior Addictive." She tells how a pedometer injured her body, her marriage, and her relationships. She is vulnerable to technology. Social media is addictive because it's designed carefully to keep your attention. There is evidence that social media does much more harm than good. Zoe has studied the psychology that makes people want to come back. [31:28] Zoe explains the manipulative and negative power of variable intermittent rewards. If someone is using variable intermittent rewards to manipulate you, it's an unhealthy relationship. Social media does that to us constantly. [35:38] Zoe shares advice for leaders on having difficult conversations involving challenging feedback. Have these conversations as soon as you realize that there's something amiss, ideally, that day. If you are giving criticism, the longer you wait, the more betrayed the person feels because you've been harboring resentment against them. Having the practice of bringing it up as soon as you can is life-changing. [39:35] How can you have more power within your organization? Internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships. Reach out to get to know challenging people in other departments and ask questions. "How is this going for you? It's kind of been a struggle for me and I'd like to understand your perspective." It's hard for people not to like you when you reach out and connect with them. [41:42] Research shows men's social and professional networks overlap a lot while women's social and professional networks do not. If you are a woman, Zoe advises you to reach out to women and men at work, especially if you're not already friends with lots of people at work. You will find a friendly rapport and reciprocity that leads to things happening more easily. Men usually have better networks. [43:41] As Zoe was writing Influence Is Your Superpower, she asked a group of people about negotiations. Only 40% of men and 17% of women said they like or love negotiating. When she asked another group to describe their most recent negotiation, their adjectives were overwhelmingly positive. About 80% of them had had a good result and felt empowered! [47:54] Zoe discusses power in an organization. Influence works the same in leadership and relationships. The idea that a leader should never apologize because apologizing gives up power is wrong to Zoe. You build a lot of social capital by apologizing at the right time, in the right way, and by taking responsibility. That's powerful! [49:44] Zoe provides an anecdote that listeners can copy about a leader raising his status by sharing the spotlight. Jess Cain VP of Customer Service at Eversource has a 96% employee engagement rating by sharing a short weekly voicemail including a spotlight on two different team members. She has 1,500 members on her team. Jan notes also that people support what they help create. [53:27] Zoe's challenge to listeners: Challenge the frame of consumerism. Thinking of ourselves as consumers has caused the climate crisis. Think about using your influence in the grand scheme and not just for your benefit. Be a role model. Zoe is donating half the profits from her book to 350.org. [56:00] Closing quote: "Think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another." — Napoleon Hill. Quotable Quotes "Almost all of us, … have mixed feelings about influence. … If I ask people … what are three adjectives that come to mind when you think of influence tactics, [it's] yucky, greedy, manipulative. … When I ask … 'Would you like to be more influential?", all of them say, yes." "Employees have been more productive at home than they have been at work, … but it hasn't changed the fact that employers want employees to come back." "Employers that offer more flexibility are going to do much better in the long run, because they'll be able to recruit the best talent." "As most academics do, we collaborate with people that we never see and that's partly because we're introverted and so we're kind of happy to be in our little cave. But there's no problem with collaborating with people that you don't see." "If you want to onboard new people and help them make friends; to have informal conversations and collaborations, OK, that's great. We just don't need to all be at the office every single day, or even every single week, right?" "Plenty of surveys have shown that leaders are actually out of touch about the real culture of their company. … the actual reality is kind of a crappy culture. It's horrible to bring people back to the office to experience the crappy culture." "Bringing people back to the office or allowing people to work remotely has a differential impact on women and people of color and various groups. So there's more equality when we have more flexibility. That's another reason I'm generally in favor of giving people flexibility." "Every freedom, every privilege, should be so carefully and thoughtfully doled out with the expectation that what you're giving an employee is going to be in perpetuity, or there's going to be a rebellion." "When she's asking this {Magic Question], she's respectfully acknowledging 'Listen, you know all kinds of things that I don't know," which is always the case with the people we're trying to influence. They know all kinds of things about their life that we don't." "The most addictive piece [of social media] … is called 'variable intermittent rewards.'" "We also often don't really realize what our expectations are until they get violated." "Just internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships." "There is a 'liking' gap of 12%, where people like you 12% more than you think that they do. And this very much includes people who you have some bit of conflict or strife with." "The majority … have this idea of negotiations that … comes from the movies. … We don't directly observe many negotiations and we're just not realizing that in our lives, most of the time when we're negotiating, it goes pretty well. … Negotiation is not as bad as we think." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Dr. Zoe Chance Dr. Zoe Chance on LinkedIn Yale School of Management Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen, by Zoe Chance Google "How Google Optimized Healthy Office Snacks," by Zoe Chance, Ravi Dhar, Michelle Hatzis, and Michiel Bakker Aliens Resident Alien Robert Cialdini Daniel Kahneman Laszlo Bock from Humu Gloria Steinem "How to Make a Behavior Addictive," Zoe Chance, TEDxMillRiver Jeffrey Pfeffer 7 Rules of Power: Surprising—but True—Advice on How to Get Things Done and Advance Your Career, by Jeffrey Pfeffer Eversource Energy Jessica Cain 350.org Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

Donato J. Tramuto is an American healthcare executive, global health activist, author and former CEO of Tivity Health. Donato's first book was released in 2016, "Life's Bulldozer Moments: How Adversity Can Lead to Success in Life and Business." His latest book, "The Double Bottom Line," is an Amazon Best Seller. Donato is a recipient of the prestigious RFK Ripple of Hope and the RFK Embracing His Legacy Award, for his endless dedication to improving the lives of others. In this episode, Donato discusses the nuances of hardship, developing compassion, being yourself, understanding your associates, and using tenderness to establish trust before relying on tenacity. https://bit.ly/TLP-321 Key Takeaways [2:20] Donato lost most of his hearing at age eight, for ten years, and had a severe speech impediment until he was 17. The loss of his hearing created in him an enormous sense of compassion for people. [4:14] For his latest book, The Double Bottom Line, Donato, and his team interviewed 41 world leaders and surveyed 1,500 employees across the country. Their research revealed that compassionate leaders need to do more than understand others' pain. They need empathy in action to impact others.[6:24] The Double Bottom Line is not just a business book. Donato shares a life experience. In the book, he tells the reader, "Listen to understand, don't listen to react." Donato suggests that if we practice compassionate leadership in our daily lives, we'll take it into our business lives. [8:04] Jan recalls recent guest Michael Bungay Stanier speaking about being compassionate, generous, and kind every day. Jan stresses the difference between being compassionate and being nice. Donato says, "If you want to be liked in a company, you're probably better to go out and get 100 golden retrievers! Compassionate leadership is not just about being nice." [9:38] Donato advocates three Ts: approach your organization with Tenderness first, to get the Trust. Then you can use Tenacity. When making tough decisions, don't start with tenacity. You gain trust by taking the time to understand each person in your organization. [10:42] As the CEO of Healthways (Tivity), Donato avoided the CEO elevator to ride the regular elevator. He shares an event that unfolded from him asking an employee in the elevator how his day was going. Donato would not have known the employee needed help had he not asked the question. Ask questions to get answers beyond, "I'm OK." [11:52] Form deep relationships with your associates. Generation Z and Millennials will form 60‒65% of the workforce and they require compassionate leadership or they will leave. People are reflecting on their lives in ways we have never seen in our lifetime. [13:07] In Donato's last year as CEO of Tivity Health, he took a hard line with an executive in front of nine other executives just before a flight. He felt miserable about it. When his plane landed, he got off and called the executive to apologize to her. Because of that apology, their relationship blossomed. With compassionate leadership, you feel better, you don't take problems home, and you gain credibility! [15:42] Jim quotes Dale Carnegie, who said, "Be interested, not interesting." [16:36] Donato is thrilled to announce that the Boston University School of Public Health is going to convert The Double Bottom Line: How Compassionate Leaders Captivate Hearts and Deliver Results, into a curriculum to teach compassion. Many of the leaders Donato interviewed were not born with compassion. They learned it through someone in their family or a teacher. The book is a resource. [17:26] There is an opportunity to train our current and future leaders on how to lead from the heart. Donato's book has assignments at the end of each chapter to help individuals understand the key nuggets of using compassion. Donato's commitment for the next 20 years is to expand this movement beyond the book and to help leaders see the key ingredients to being compassionate. [20:22] Millennials and Generation Z are demanding a totally different approach to the work environment. Leaders will have to step up and embrace that change or they will be losing significant talent; they won't be as competitive or as effective. The success of The Double Bottom Line is a validation of compassionate leadership. Institutions are asking Donato for training. The time is right. [22:51] Donato proposes a Chief Compassionate Leader Officer for the C-Suite. Boards have got to be willing to ask these questions about culture and trust, to validate that the organization is moving in this direction, as opposed to always looking at a spreadsheet. [25:36] What is the right amount of empathy, vs. making hard decisions? Empathy overload means getting too deep into the situation, clouding your ability to make hard decisions. [27:06] When you ask to understand and have gotten to the issue, then you need to come to an agreement and consensus with "and," not "but." "I understand your issues, and how do we work together to make sure that your needs are met and the needs of the organization are met?" When Donato has taken that approach, they always got to an end result that worked for both parties. [30:24] Establishing trust comes before results. Donato asks permission to help. Once he had a board member, who was not behaving well, refuse to receive some constructive insight. She said, "No. You're not my coach." Trust was not established. The board member did not have a favorable outcome; she was later asked to leave the board. Ask for permission to provide constructive insight and most will agree. [32:40] When is it appropriate to address spirituality in the workplace? Donato believes our connection to a spiritual force influences how we behave. If you are a spiritual person, it's not something to be embarrassed by. The world is increasingly secular. People who do not focus on spirituality may otherwise have positive values that guide their behavior for good. Be who you are. [34:40] Until 2014, when he received the RFK recognitions, Donato had not shared with anyone that he was gay and had a partner. In front of 2,000 people, 500 of whom were his employees, he thanked his loving partner of 23 years. The audience stood to applaud. The more you are who you are, the more you develop an understanding in the workforce that you're like the other person in many ways. [37:07] Do people look favorably upon expressions of faith? If you emphasize too much one facet of who you are, then you make it an issue. Donato shares many facets of himself in case someone has one of those facets in common with him. [41:20] Start to look at what you and your associates have in common. You will begin to realize that there is very little that is different about you. Take the time to understand the other person. [43:20] Age discrimination is real. The average CEO is 59 years old. They hire their executive team from the same age group. Until we are willing to diversify the executive team, we will not integrate the values of the different generations to build an incredible team. Donato has just hired a terrific 23-year-old manager and he has learned a lot from her. Ten years ago, he would not have hired one of her age. [46:55] The organization's values should not be decided only by the executive team. Donato tells of changing a company's 10 hard-to-remember values established by executive leadership into five carefully organized and prioritized values developed with the participation of the associates. [47:34] Don't choose when to be compassionate. Show compassion to everyone. Be compassionate all the time, just as a pilot flies a plane in a safe manner all the time. [48:35] Donato's challenge to listeners: There are many issues affecting us today. Start every single day by asking a friend or family member, "Tell me what you're experiencing today." After you've listened and you've heard them, do something! Kindness and compassion are the new currency of the century. [50:40] Closing quote: "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." — Robert F. Kennedy. Quotable Quotes "The fluency you're hearing today was not there when I was 17. … I share that with you because I think that part of leadership is being … comfortable with your story. Too many people … don't really understand the steps that led to the successful position you might have." "You rent your title; you own your dignity." "If you want to be a compassionate leader, you must have empathy in action to have impact." "Listen to understand. Understand what the other person might be going through." "Everyone that you meet most likely is having a more difficult time than you." "You want deep relationships with your associates. And by the way, we are now faced with five generations in the workforce. Generation Z and the Millennials will soon dominate — 60‒65% of the workforce. If you're not changing as a leader, guess what, you're going to be losing out." "Part of compassionate leadership is doing some self-reflection. You're not always going to be right and when you are wrong and you admit to it you will gain an enormous amount of credibility." "My favorite philosopher Yogi Berra once said, 'You don't want to make the wrong mistake.'" "With five generations now in the workforce, and Millennials and the Gen Z-ers demanding a totally different approach to the work environment, I think that we're going to have to step up and begin to embrace that change or we're going to be losing some significant talent." "A significant portion of [the Great Resignation] is related to feeling good, and passionate, and putting a soul in your company. … If the leaders of today cannot embrace that, they're going to be gone." "We have to be willing to understand that it's not one facet that attracts people to you, it's the entire person who you are, and the more willing you are to share those multiple facets, you begin to develop relationships in different venues." "You have got to have the [company] values developed by everyone in the organization, otherwise, they are not going to stick. And that's what we did. We brought the 10 values down to five. And … we did prioritize them." "You show compassion to everyone and you're compassionate all the time! You don't pick and choose when you're compassionate. It's like asking the pilot 'When do you fly the plane in a safe manner?' You always fly the plane in a safe manner!" Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Donato Tramuto on LinkedIn The Double Bottom Line: How Compassionate Leaders Captivate Hearts and Deliver Results, by Donato Tramuto Tramuto Porter Foundation Health eVillages® Life's Bulldozer Moments: How Adversity Leads to Success in Life and Business, by Donato Tramuto Michael Bungay Stanier Tivity Health (Formerly Healthways) Yogi Berra Dale Carnegie

Michael Bungay Stanier has written books that have sold about a million copies all told, including The Coaching Habit. He founded a training and development company, Box of Crayons, that has taught coaching skills to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Listen in to see why Michael has been named the #1 Thought Leader in Coaching; and why his work has resonated with thousands… https://bit.ly/TLP-320 Key Takeaways [2:00] Jan and Jim met Michael Bungay Stanier through Bobby Herrera, the author of The Gift of Struggle. Michael is the author of the most successful book on coaching of this century, The Coaching Habit. Michael's latest book is How to Begin. [3:06] Little-known facts about Michael: he was banned from his high school graduation for a balloon prank, he was sued by one of his law school professors for defamation, and his first professional writing was The Male Delivery, a romance short story.[6:07] Michael recently wrote on LinkedIn about his mother's 50-year-old garden. It has a series of microclimates: a vegetable garden, a fern garden, a wisteria garden, and a Wollemi pine. Each area is looked after differently. He compares caring for a garden to caring for the microcultures in an organization's culture. [6:18] As a leader you see that things need to change. You're constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or strategy. The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization. [8:36] In Australia, some trees need to be burned before they will germinate. Sometimes you need to burn some stuff down to allow the culture to germinate, refresh, and regrow. [10:01] Jan quotes a military mantra, "Selection's an ongoing process. Just because you got to come here and be in this organization doesn't mean you get to stay." Michael notes that our natural wiring is to add. One of the most powerful things to do to drive change is to remove. Michael tells of a study involving adding or removing Lego blocks to make the desired shape. Most people added blocks. [11:05] Most people, when thinking of change in an organization, ask what they need to add. Instead, they would get better changes by asking what 20% of what is happening, what practices, structures, systems, culture, or people, they need to remove! Michael learned of the study by reading Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less, by Leidy Klotz. [12:15] We are also wired to give advice, even when it's better to ask a question. Michael counsels leaders to stay curious a little bit longer and move to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly. Michael explains where we go wrong with giving advice. [14:29] One resistance to having coaching be part of your culture is asking who has time for it. Michael says if you can't coach somebody in 10 minutes or less, you do not have time to coach them. Being curious does not take a vast amount of time. Michael defines coaching as being curious just a little bit longer. Being curious allows you to figure out what the real challenge is. [15:28] In most organizations, people are working very hard to solve not the real challenge, but the first challenge. Because we get seduced into thinking that the first challenge is the thing we need to solve. If you build a reputation as the person who always seems to figure out what the real challenge is, you build a reputation as a strategic player. [16:00] Strategy is knowing what the real thing is and being bold enough to go and try to fix that. Organizations are filled with people who are good at coming up with fast, not very good ideas. If you're just one of them, you're not as valuable to your organization. If you're always the person who asks, "What's the real challenge we're trying to solve here?" you become invaluable. Get the diagnosis right. [16:33] Michael just had a free webinar that asked "What's the one question that unlocks everything?" The question is, "If I'm going to say 'yes' to this, what must I say 'no' to?" He quotes Michael Porter, who said, "Strategy is choice. It's having the courage to make the choice." Most of us are afraid of making the choice. [17:21] There are three levels of things you have to say "no" to 1.) Tasks. What are the tasks I need to stop doing? 2.) People. To whom do I need to say no? Whom do I need to disappoint? 3.) The old version of who you are, so you can say yes to the new version of who you are. [19:38] The book, How to Begin, asks if you understand the prizes and punishments of staying committed to the status quo. People often don't understand how much they get from the way things are right now, even though they're overwhelmed. You need to know what you value and hold dear. There is a tension between the work that has impact and work that has meaning. [21:28] You have to ask what has to be done in this organization for this thing to be a success. What is the work you do that unlocks the best of who you are and has the maximal impact within your organization? [23:15] What does it mean to set a worthy goal? How do you set the goals that matter to you? How do you set a goal that claims ambition for yourself and the world? Michael suggests there are three key elements 1.) Is it thrilling? Does it light you up? 2.) Is it important? 3.) Have you picked a worthy goal that is daunting to you? Will it take you to the edge of your sense of self? [25:14] If you have a goal that is thrilling, important, but not daunting, you have plateaued; you are no longer learning. Michael is now an old dog but he still wants to learn new tricks! Neuroplasticity is how you keep your brain alive and push yourself to the edge. [26:44] Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound (SMART) goals are goals of things for management to track. Leadership goals are harder to measure and track. [30:12] When Michael's father was dying, Michael shared with his father a book chapter he had just written about him, referring to Rilke's poem "The Man Watching," about Jacob wrestling with the angel. Michael saw his father as Jacob, a very good man wrestling something greater than himself and becoming the best of who he was. [33:37] Michael is writing a book and he is finding a lot of resistance in the writing. He feels he is losing a wrestle with an angel and feels the angel's thumbs pushing him down. He asks himself what is his worthy goal. Right now, it's to be with his mother in Australia, to help her with her grief and mourning, and to let go of his need to write his book or anything else. [36:05] Humility and confidence go hand-in-hand, as Michael explains. [37:48] Coaches must consider for whose sake they are talking. Is it helping the client or the coach? Is it for the coach to figure something out or is it for the client to figure something out? Is the coach's talking the best way to serve the client or is it giving the coach status, authority, gravitas, and added value? [39:09] When should coaches talk? Michael says the more he's been around, the more he says the best thing to do is allow the person to figure their stuff out so that they're creating new neural pathways and gaining competence, confidence, self-sufficiency, and autonomy. That's the better way to coach. [40:00] Are you asking questions in service of the client or in service of the problem? Michael says to test it out. Ask the person you are talking to, "Does this feel helpful? What feels useful here in all of this, if anything?" The client will know the answers to those questions better than you will. Figure it out between the two of you. Coaching is a relationship. Stop trying to figure it out all in your head. [42:41] Michael's closing thoughts: "If you can stay curious and you can stay kind and you can be generous, that just takes you a long way down the path of being a good human being. Curiosity, kindness, and generosity are a really powerful triumvirate." [48:19] Closing quote: "Coaching's not a job, it's a privilege." — Lee Corso. Quotable Quotes "Any dominant culture actually has subcultures and microclimates. And you're not just trying to build a culture, you're [asking], 'How do I build these microclimates that are all contributors, culture-adds, to the overall culture of my organization?'" "If you're a leader, one of the mantras you have is 'Stuff needs to change around here.' You're constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or your strategy in some way. … The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization." "I'm trying to get people in organizations … to stay curious a little bit longer and rush to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly because most of us are advice-giving maniacs." "There is a place for advice-giving. There is absolutely a place for advice-giving! It's an act of civilization to trade information. What kills us is when we have leaping to advice as our default response." "When you work in an organization, you've got a tension always between work that has impact and the work that has meaning. If you can be really clear on the stuff that matters to you, … then you also have to ask, 'What needs to be done in this organization for this to be a success?'" "If you're not working on the right thing, it doesn't matter if your goal is specific, measurable, attainable, timely, or whatever else. It's like you're not working on the thing that's going to have the most impact and bring out the best of who you are." "With a worthy goal, you can do work on one or two worthy goals, not more than that." "I'm trying to write a book at the moment, and I wrote my words today, but, man, I am finding resistance to this book; the dark force in this book is stronger than usual! … I know how to write a book, but this book, I went, 'What?! This is really hard!'" "I want people to say, 'Look, I know where I'm good, and I also know where I'm not good and I don't need to be grandiose about either of those things. That's what I'm working with. That's the reality that I'm playing with.' That, to me, has that kind of confidence and humility." "The longer I've been around, the more I see that my answers aren't as good as I think they are. And the more I've been around, the more I say the best thing to do is allow that person to figure their stuff out so that they're creating new neural pathways." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Michael Bungay Stanier on LinkedIn The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More & Change the Way You Lead Forever How to Begin: Start Doing Something That Matters The Gift of Struggle: Life-Changing Lessons About Leading, by Bobby Herrera The Rhodes Scholarship Animal House Wollemi Pine UVA Study involving Legos Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less, by Leidy Klotz Michael Porter SMART Goals Michael Bungay Stanier video: How To Achieve Your Worthy Goals Robin Williams, Dead Poets Society "The Man Watching," by Rainer Maria Rilke Harry Chapin Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

David Smith is a wicked problem-solver, collaborative business leader, technologist, and innovative futurist. He has held executive roles in R&D, government, commercial, and academic organizations. David has been named one of the top seven global futurists in the Millennium issue of Business Week. In this conversation, David shares several concepts to help leaders keep up with the present and prepare for the future. He describes wicked problems, and how to bring a team together with the tools to solve them. He is one of two futurists who have been accurate for the first 22 years of the century and is still on track. https://bit.ly/TLP-319 Key Takeaways [2:18] David and Jim first met in Austin and found they had a mutual friend in Steve Justice.[3:46] In David's youth, as a long-haired roadie, he ran audio for the Beach Boys, the Carpenters, and others. David shares a story from that era. [6:18] David solves wicked problems, which are complex problems that have no known solution path. He once had a team of about 200 people over a year make a 45-year wicked problem roadmap for high-energy-density storage for the military. We can store energy now, but not yet at the density that we need. [7:53] Sematech was formed to regain the semiconductor industry back in the United States. They did it. Dave was one of the co-leaders of the first industry roadmap done in the United States. They worked with semiconductor manufacturers, suppliers, academia, and the government to create the roadmap. The commercial sector, academic sector, and government sector acted as a technopolis to enact change. [9:16] Solving wicked problems involves pulling the various stakeholders of commerce, academics, and the government to work together. [10:31] David explains the process of seeing fifty years into the future. He was one of seven futurists who predicted that this century would be defined by bio. All technology is becoming biological. At 22 years in, he's been pretty accurate. Only one of the other futurists is accurate for today. All the other five have fallen off the table. David explains how he used a framework. [11:20] A leading futurist has changed his future every 14 to 20 months. That's not forecasting, it's predicting and then changing his prediction. David uses a method that includes six views of the future: as an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counterpuncher, an intuiter, or an artist. Different techniques are used for each of the views. [12:27] Use people who can work in different views to optimize out errors. David shares a story of a satellite phone company that went to market using only an extrapolation view to forecast sales. In 12 months, they asked David to work with them and get them on track, because his multiple-view forecast of their numbers had been right. [15:32] How can global social issues be solved? David explains that his framework can be applied across the U.S. and even as far as Malaysia. People understand the value of different views. He tells why the front windshield of a car is larger than the rear window; where we've been is important but where we're going is more important. You need to know where you've been to be optimized for the future. [18:36] When David interviews people, he asks a standard set of questions and also roleplays. One roleplay involves the interviewee being asked to defend his actions against "one of the world's leading experts" who disagrees with what the interviewee is doing. That shows David the candidate's potential for dealing with human dynamics. It reveals competencies and capabilities. [21:46] David suggests something for leaders: They and everyone in their company need to know that we are in a time of lifelong learning and the way we learn is dramatically changing. David is constantly learning and constantly looking at how to learn. One of the six views of the future is counterpuncher. A counterpuncher does a great job of current awareness. A counterpuncher works scenarios. [23:28] David looks for weak signals. There's a lag between inventing something at a university and getting it to the marketplace. David uses tools that let him see what research universities are doing. That gives him the advantage of seeing weak, early signals and spending more time researching. He networks with a lot of people in different industries and he's always learning. He connects the dots. [25:12] Leaders sometimes forget that other industries are having to solve many of the same types of problems. Dave suggests looking at horizontal convergence. Often you can connect the solutions and the data well between industries. Follow David on Twitter. He posts several times a day of early indicators of industries, trends, and research. [26:03] It's very important to understand that the world is not static. Ask people to help you learn to do new things and prepare for the future. David tells people around the world that he's an East Texas farm boy. He finds it a great way to get people comfortable talking with him. [27:06] Before going to a research university, David participated in a pilot education program with 21 students at a college outside of Dallas. It was a one-year inquiry program of learning from original source material without textbooks. It forced them to synthesize. Learning to synthesize, plus having great mentors, gave David the greatest advantage in his career. [29:24] We live with "systems of systems." Your one mobile device has voice communication, data, photography, entertainment, GPS, etc. David suggests thinking of mentors as a system. One mentor for your current role, one mentor for understanding the politics of the company, and one mentor outside your company for understanding entrepreneurship. Make connections and cultivate them as you go. [31:34] Don't look for a mentor to hold your hand, but one to point to the mountain and let you choose how to climb it to reach the top. Ask for help if you need it, but you need to understand the path yourself. You want a mentor to help stretch your brain, your competencies, and your capabilities. Learn intangibles above technical skills. David would hope you mentor others below you, too. It's not one-way. [35:28] David's hiring advice: Hire people who understand the principle of group intelligence. It's one of the strongest things David looks for in capabilities. If a rockstar candidate does not work well with others, the impact of that candidate will not be sustainable or optimal. [36:23] David's six views of the future are one of the ways he builds group intelligence. When he hires people, he wants to see if they're the one who always has to be right or if they play well with others. [36:41] David recommends silent brainstorming to generate ideas. He explains why it brings out better ideas than brainstorming out loud, and how it works, using a customer example. [39:26] Wicked problems are solved using group intelligence, using a technopolis approach, and using the six views approach. The common theme is using the power of people and the power of group intelligence. [40:28] Participation in team sports is an indicator of group intelligence. David looks to see if candidates participate in group hackathons to develop a solution over a weekend with people you don't work with. David also roleplays to see how the candidates get their information and use group intelligence. [42:28] David agrees with Steve Justice that we need to stand in the future. David says he has to live in the future to survive today. A leader's job is to help get the roadmap in place for where the company wants to go. A map has multiple possible routes, and it's not necessarily the leader's role to pick the route and the detours. It's to set the vision and help them understand what the future goals are. [43:28] A leader's role is to help the organization put roadmaps together for technology, services, products, and capabilities. The roadmaps empower the organization to get to its goals. A 100% top-down leadership in today's global, connected world would be too complicated for one leader. He needs the group intelligence of his teams, suppliers, and other stakeholders to help build the roadmaps. [44:52] David's closing thoughts: Since the beginning of recorded data, the amount of data has doubled every two years. Because of the quantity of the data, most legacy tech systems will fail. People need to be in the mode of lifelong learning, or they will be left behind. Twenty years ago, we didn't have web developers or eCommerce. Coming up, robotics and autonomous systems will revolutionize the world. [48:19] Closing quote: "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." — Albert Einstein. Quotable Quotes "When we formed Sematech, our market share in the U.S. had fallen to about 30% globally. That's a danger point for us. Just like today, … you're hearing about how the U.S. must regain its semiconductor industry again. Well, we did it back then and it needs to be done again." "[For] wicked problems, … you've got to pull these various stakeholders together. And then you have to use approaches to make sure that what you're doing is accurate. And what has caused many of these to fail is the use of only a couple of different … views to make it happen." "I have a framework where we look at six different views of the future. You're an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counter puncher, an intuiter, or an artist. What makes this system unique is that there are different techniques which go under each of those." "When we try to tackle hard problems, … we use techniques that go across those different views. … When we do the working groups, I not only want people from the technopolis areas but I want people who have the ability to work in each of the different views of the future." "Where we've been is important but where we're going is more important." "One of the first things I want the listeners to understand is that we're in a time of life-long learning. And it's not just for leadership but everyone within your company needs to understand that we're in a time of lifelong learning. And the ways we learn are dramatically changing." "When you [search], you rarely get any feedback from a university in the search results. But universities are doing a lot of the future science. There's usually a lead-lag relationship between when something's invented in a university before it gets to the … marketplace." "I learn when I talk to people. … I ask questions. I put a scenario out there and say 'Does it work here?' and try to understand the answer. The ability for me to be able to work across the different industries I do is, I am a dot-connector." "Very often, we get so caught up in our vertical industry knowledge, we forget the other industries are having to solve many of the same problems. Maybe a different set of customers, but face the same types of problems. So you need to begin to look at … horizontal convergence." "We've got to change or we would still be plowing fields with pieces of rock." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC David Smith on LinkedIn David Smith on Twitter In-Q-Tel CIA NSA SEMATECH Steve Justice Skunkworks The Beach Boys Carpenters Dell Bob Noyce Intel World Economic Forum Microsoft Cisco "What Only the CEO Can Do", by A.G. Lafley, HBR Peter Drucker Autonomous Systems Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

Elliott Bisnow is the Co-Founder of Summit, whose family of organizations includes Powder Mountain, Summit Series, and Summit Junto. He's also a startup investor in 50 companies like Uber, Coinbase, Warby Parker, and Albert. Elliott describes his passion for building companies and cultures, connecting deeply with people on his teams, and building events and communities. He believes that what is good for business should be what is good for the community and the world. https://bit.ly/TLP-318 Key Takeaways [2:20] Elliott Bisnow is focused on building companies with a great culture, and teams he loves, connecting deeply with the people who work at the Summit businesses, designing and building events and experiences, and meeting the people that come. He loves building communities and getting to understand them. He loves creating teams he wants to be part of. Elliott is a people person. [4:31] The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling. Consider why you are an entrepreneur. What are you bringing to the world? Elliott loves designing products. [6:239] Elliott recalls growing up watching MTV's Cribs and seeing the Forbes 400 list, which he remembers with negative associations. He remembers the first group of entrepreneurs he met who cared about the product, the customers, and the communities they were serving. He contrasts the old business model of profit-seeking with a new business model focused on the good of the community. [11:09] Are new entrepreneurs better people or do they just talk more about what they do in the community than the CEOs of the '90s talked about? Growing up, Elliott never heard of CEOs doing good in the community. He realized he could build businesses that combine profits and purpose. He says, "Profit Enough. What's good for our business should be good for the community and the world." [12:46] It's a lot more enjoyable to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you feel good about what you're creating. [13:44] Elliott liked college as a place to start a business because you have your dorm, food, and classes even if the business fails. His first two businesses in college didn't work. His third idea did work so he quit college and moved back in with his parents. He made every possible mistake as he learned how to run a startup. The key is to take small risks and make small mistakes and learn from them. [16:56] Elliott builds community by creating things that allow people to self-select into them, being very defined about its mission. However, once people have self-selected into an event, you can find yourself with a lot of similar voices and little diversity. [19:21] Elliott has kept a notepad on his phone for over 10 years. Anytime he hears something or reads something interesting, he writes a note down. He might write one note in a week or three in a day. He has thousands of notes he re-reads. He receives wisdom from other people in two ways: the first way is by reading one book a week; the second is by meeting people in the flow of life and listening to them. [21:45] Elliott has an 80% rule about conversations. In 80% of his conversations, he tries to ask questions. He will ask a question rather than answer one. He finds wisdom from ordinary people. Between his conversations and reading books, he's getting a lot of good ideas. [24:59] When Elliott realized he wanted to be an entrepreneur, he read a lot of very simple books about people's journeys to becoming entrepreneurs. Then he was done reading about entrepreneurs and wanted to go be an entrepreneur. [25:36] Elliott sees that MBA courses would serve people better after the people had experienced some years in business. Elliott spends a lot of time thinking about the books he is going to read. He identifies the types of books he wants to read. He also reads some books for fun. When he meets people that don't read, he suggests books that are just for fun, to get them to fall in love with reading. [27:31] You have to be in a good mindset to sit and read a business book. Elliott will skip a few pages ahead if he gets bored. He doesn't get stuck on pages. Reading is a big part of Elliott's life. [28:30] Elliott discusses the virtues of knowing when to quit and cites Warren Buffet who only makes small mistakes because he knows when to get out of a deal. He's never been in a massive mistake. [29:27] Elliott's view on ideas is that it's quite difficult to come up with good ideas, so you need to create a culture where the most ideas possible can come forward, no matter what they are. That's a hard environment to maintain when people naturally shoot down ideas or want to take credit for them. Elliott says there's no limit to what you can achieve if you give other people credit. [32:03] Elliott describes what it means to be a "favor-economy millionaire." Build up a network of people with whom you trade for services. Having relationships where you and your network can help each other grow is extremely important. [35:05] Being an entrepreneur or a leader is hard. Making money is hard. Saving money is hard. Bartering makes it easier to do business. Relationships are like muscles and the more that you work with them, the more you nurture the relationships. Give to people and it will come back many times over. [36:32] Elliott's takeaway from his book, Make No Small Plans: Between the life people are living and the life they want to live, there's a lot of white space. Make No Small Plans, is in the context of the life that you want to live. Step out of anything that's held you back. Make plans to get to where you want to be. [40:06] Closing quote: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." — F. Scott Fitzgerald. Quotable Quotes "When you're an entrepreneur, you get to create your own culture and your own team." "The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. … Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling." "At the crux of entrepreneurship is, 'What is the thing that you're bringing to the world? Why are you an entrepreneur?'" "Just from a personal, selfish standpoint, it's a lot more enjoyable way to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you actually feel really good about what you're creating." "My main takeaway is that, as long as your mistakes are small, there's not very far to fall. … In the early days, the key is taking lots of small risks." "There's a lot of emphasis placed on gaining tips and wisdom from super-famous people but I find that there's just as much wisdom to be had from every person in the world." "The most important thing about reading is falling in love with reading. And so most people who don't read, I give them a few books that are just fun." "You have to be in a good mindset to be able to sit and read a business book. And then I've developed a couple of tricks when it comes to reading, like skipping forward and if things are boring, don't let it hold you back; don't get stuck on pages." "There are certain things where quitting is a virtue and it's a good skill to have." "Between the life people want to live, and the life that they're living, there's a lot of white space. When I think about Make No Small Plans, it's in the context of the life that you want to live." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Elliott Bisnow on LinkedIn Make No Small Plans: Lessons on Thinking Big, Chasing Dreams, and Building Community, by Elliott Bisnow, Brett Leve, Jeff Rosenthal, and Jeremy Schwartz Summit Powder Mountain Summit Junto Uber Coinbase Warby Parker Albert MTV Cribs Forbes 400 Allen-Bradley Shantaram: A Novel, by Gregory David Roberts Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance, by Barak Obama Decision Points, by George W. Bush James A. Garfield Bubble in the Sun: The Florida Boom of the 1920s and How It Brought on the Great Depression, by Christopher Knowlton The River of Doubt: Theodore Roosevelt's Darkest Journey, by Candice Millard Losing My Virginity: How I Survived, Had Fun, and Made a Fortune Doing Business My Way, by Richard Branson When I Stop Talking, You'll Know I'm Dead: Useful Stories from a Persuasive Man, by Jerry Weintraub with Rich Cohen Ready Player One: A Novel, by Earnest Cline The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War, by Ben Macintyre Daniel Pink Warren Buffet Google Facebook Gmail Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

Kathy Miller is a senior manufacturing executive, professional coach, business transformation advisor, and co-author of "Steel Toes and Stilettos: A True Story of Women Manufacturing Leaders and Lean Transformation Success." Kathy shares the emotional event that fueled her determination, and the value of prosocial behaviors at work. Kathy also talks about the most meaningful metrics: growth and profitability. She reveals how relationships between leaders and their staff can be maintained, and that showing up authentically is as important to your health as it is for the health of the organization. https://bit.ly/TLP-317 Key Takeaways [3:40] Kathy Miller and Shannon Karels co-authored Steel Toes and Stilettos, published in late 2021. The book talks about prosocial behaviors, which are socially accepted actions that benefit other individuals or communities. Kathy explains prosocial behavior as you being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in your current role. [5:00] Selflessness at work begins with leaders setting the norms in the organization. As leaders display empathy and compassion and connect with employees, employees want to give back. It's also by taking the workers and connecting them with a larger purpose than the paycheck and benefits, displaying how the work they're doing connects to the community and makes the world a better place. [6:29] Kathy recalls campaigns in her organizations that showed how the parts they made helped to feed the world or how the cars they made provided safe transportation for families. The majority of people respond to that very positively. The book includes a lot about leading with examples and cues in the workplace that say what you are doing is meaningful. [7:14] Peter Drucker wrote that "The purpose of a business is to create a customer." Workers are here to get and keep customers. Lean manufacturing starts with providing customer value. Whatever the profession, people want to leave the world a better place than they found it, at the end of the day. [10:15] Taking engineering through a co-op school was a practical way for Kathy to fund her way through college. When she first toured a plant with her father, she was exposed to "whooping and hollering and whistling," but he told her, "People are people," and "You're going to be fine," so she wasn't intimidated. She immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. It was challenging for her. [11:52] When Kathy graduated, the plan shut down, after having been in production for 50 years. It was a significant emotional event, very early in her career. All the men followed the last car down the line, not knowing what would happen with their lives. That was one of the things that fueled Kathy to want to go into leadership and help create businesses that wouldn't have to experience that. [13:05] Kathy went into engineering and marketing, but she missed the factory, so she went back into operations. [13:45] When Kathy was young, she was walking in the factory, in the instrument panel area where most of the women worked, and she thought it would be a "safe" place. Some women called her over to show her a box of chocolates shaped like private parts. Later her supervisor saw she was upset and told her that in manufacturing, she could not wear her heart on her sleeve. She learned never to cry at work! [17:26] With great challenges come great rewards. Jan recalls a guest who said, "A career is made from hard bosses that are terrible and challenges that are impossible! It's not made from a nice environment." He was the HR director for Jack Welch. [18:26] Kathy suggests two fundamental metrics for success: growth and profitability. Growing with your customers means focusing on them and meeting their needs. And you have to be profitable to pay the bills. There are subordinate metrics you have to address, but profitability and growth are the greatest. If they're moving in the right direction with momentum, it shows you have an inclusive environment. [19:49] Whatever metrics you take, boil them down so they are meaningful to the people at their level. You want to drive the right behavior. Any metric can be gamed, so look at an overall business system. Everyone in the organization needs to know how their role contributes to the metrics. [22:14] The almost universal response to the idea of any transformation is, "We are different, unique, and special and that will not work here!" As a leader of a transformation, you have to be able to articulate a vision of the future that people can relate to because most people have not experienced those levels of performance, and those types of systems and processes. [23:43] There is the danger of a "Program of the Month" fatigue in organizations from all the initiatives that come along. Break out of being just another initiative. It takes a lot of perseverance and communication, not varying from your stated goal. The "secret sauce" is that people will implement what they help create. [26:03] It's impossible to personalize the vision to every individual. People have different motivations. When you are the top leader, you are trying to describe what that vision means for the good of the organization. Kathy relates this to her origin story of watching a plant close and how she doesn't want that to happen on her watch. Leaders have to show a little vulnerability and how it is personal to them. [27:11] Kathy explains the formal strategy deployment process where the leader shares the vision for the organization and each leader translates it to be meaningful to their area, cascading down to the level of operators. If you're doing these things correctly, people will see their lives getting better. They're less frustrated; you're supporting them and making their work more manageable or better. [28:02] The chapters in Kathy's book are named after shoes: baby shoes, cowboy boots, steel toes, flip-flops, etc. Kathy explains why different shoes are needed for different stages. With the supply chain challenges and workforce shortages, the working world is at a reset. For Kathy, that means we need cowboy boots (Chapter 2). We need to reset the vision for the next era. [31:24] Kathy tells about her relationship with her co-author, Shannon Karels. Shannon was brought into the team to be a transformation expert. Kathy has seen Shannon grow, contribute, and become highly accomplished. They got to be very close and accomplished things together. Now they talk about how they can model for others the great relationship that they've had. It's the best part of sisterhood! [34:10] Kathy has some guidelines to share on work friendships. The relationship between Shannon and Kathy has grown over time. Now that they do not work together, it has grown a lot more. At work, Kathy is very conscious about not playing favorites. She has great relationships with everybody on her staff and sometimes those involve very hard conversations. Now, Shannon's son calls her "Aunt Kathy." [36:21] Kathy carefully managed the optics of friendships between herself and her staff. It is lonely at the top. She would only confide in peers at other organizations, not in members of her team. Shannon was a member of Kathy's staff and was treated fairly and equally with the other staff members. They became so much closer when they wrote a book together as equals. [38:05] Leaders today should pay attention to showing up for work with authenticity, in Kathy's view. If you can't show up authentically, ask yourself "why?" Is this a good fit? It's not healthy if you can't show up authentically. It's not healthy for you, your employees, or the company. [41:23] Jim promises to tell a funny story of how he came to interview at Ford with two black eyes and a broken nose if listeners will put 10 new reviews on Apple Podcasts by the end of the month! [43:04] Closing quote: "The only way you survive is you continuously transform into something else. It's this idea of continuous transformation that makes you an innovation company." — Ginni Rometty. Quotable Quotes "Prosocial behaviors are a component of meaningful work; taking individuals who are providing roles and making sure that they're connected to the needs of others. It's just a fancy term for being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in the current role that you're in." "What you're doing is meaningful. You might not be able to see it with that part that you're assembling but you are connected to a greater purpose." "Engineers are people, too, right? We all want to, at the end of the day, make a difference in the world, through our talents and our skills." "I immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. I couldn't believe that every 60 seconds, a functioning vehicle came off the end of that line. And then, after I'd worked there five years, I was even more fascinated by it, when you see all the challenges." "I saw very early in my life, the impact of a failed business on the lives of so many people. And so, it really taught me, 'You have to produce results; you have to be successful; you have to give back and create these strong manufacturing businesses.'" "If you continue to grow with your customers, it means you're focusing on your customers and their needs and meeting their needs, and other customers are getting attracted to you. And you have to be profitable because you have to pay the bills." "Metrics need to be visible, and they need to be meaningful, and they need to be connected to the overall mission." "The strategy deployment process [says] 'These are the levels we need to be a competitive business,' and then you let the leaders translate that to what that means to their part of the organization, and cascade it … until it gets to a meaningful level at the operator level." "Understand, what is the current state? What are the variables, right now, that we have to contend with and how are we going to move all those variables in a positive direction in this post-pandemic era?" "If you can't marry the values and actions and behaviors of the company with your own moral compass and show up authentically, it's probably time to ask yourself some hard questions and maybe find somewhere where you can show up … authentically." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Kathy Miller on LinkedIn Steel Toes and Stilettos: A True Story of Women Manufacturing Leaders and Lean Transformation Success, by Shannon Karels and Kathy Miller https://opsisters.com Shingo Prize Prosocial behavior Peter Drucker Lean Manufacturing Systems thinking Design thinking Find Your Why: A Practical Guide for Discovering Purpose for You and Your Team, by Simon Sinek, David Mead, and Peter Docker Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, by Daniel Pink Bridgeport milling machine Jack Welch John Wooden EOS Digital transformation Ford Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

Dr. Laura Bokar is the CEO of Fox Valley Institute for Growth and Wellness and the author of "We Need to Talk: 24 Simple Insights for Relationships." Laura discusses a variety of relationship topics, and points out that home and business relationships are the same… they are human relationships. Laura discusses the nuances of difficult conversations, how relationships fail, and how they can be repaired. Listen to this episode to learn to nurture relationships and avoid big problems. https://bit.ly/TLP-316 Key Takeaways [2:20] Laura credits her fabulous husband, Chuck, for helping her throughout her career and in building Fox Valley Institute as a "silent partner." [3:47] Difficult conversations create fear and anxiety for some. These conversations are on topics important to us, with high and intense emotions behind them. We have uncertainty about how the other person will respond. Laura suggests staying on track in difficult conversations by first embracing and understanding your emotions, preparing, and practicing. [5:59] Before a difficult conversation, own your emotions, manage them, and understand them. You don't want two emotional people coming into a room. Be clear about what is important to you to bring up and talk about. In the conversation, affirm the person and the relationship, and then let them know what you want to talk about. Be hard on the issue and soft on the person. [7:09] Listen for content and emotions. Respond to emotions with empathy and validation. Sometimes people bring up unresolved issues from the past. These issues will keep resurfacing until they are made the topic of another necessary difficult conversation. When a person gets overwhelmed, they want to shut down and blame or shame themselves. Address what is overwhelming them. [10:39] Can a difficult conversation be avoided? Ask yourself if it will improve the relationship and if the relationship is important enough for you to want to improve it. Knowing the answer, you can decide whether or not to have that difficult conversation. It's an investment. Are both of you invested? [12:53] Relationships usually don't degrade with one big lapse but with a bunch of small paper cuts. Laura shares examples of small injuries that hurt relationships. You may not be paying attention to them but they build up and put distance between people. Justifications and excuses create distance in both personal and business relationships because you lose trust. Apologize for the small things. [16:02] Small things may call for difficult conversations. Many things can be resolved by talking about them. It could be a reason you don't know about, such as having a terminally ill family member. Once you know, you can understand and probably let go of it. The person would probably pivot and get back on track. [17:53] Laura tells how to say you're sorry in a heartfelt way when you understand how you hurt that person. Let them hear that you get it and that you empathize. If the hurt person wants an explanation you can give it; not to satisfy yourself. [19:57] Laura explains primary and secondary emotions. The primary emotion may be sadness, hurt, shame, or loneliness. Shame is an emotion that can't live in the light. We don't want to share it. It's hard to get it into the conversation. It's probably connected to something deep in the past. If the issue is shame, recommend professional help. Bringing it to the light with a therapist will mean freedom. [24:00] Many leaders get to know their people, notice when they have a change in performance, and have conversations with them. If there is a home problem, Laura recommends the person talk to a professional. Let them find someone they can talk to about it who is not their boss. Leaders should also have the experience of talking to a therapist; they can tell the employee they've done it and it is helpful. [28:09] Be aware of changes that might signal depression and recommend the employee talk to a professional therapist if you see the signs. Depression and anxiety are invisible disorders but when they get to the point where you see behavioral changes, it's usually pretty bad. [29:14] Different generations manage online situations differently. If you notice a big gap between a person's personality in person and online, talk with them about it. [31:50] Steven Covey told his divorcing friend to "Love her" instead of divorcing his wife. Laura says that the injuries behind the divorce first have to be identified, understood, and forgiven before love will work. [34:15] We have the Great Resignation. Laura says people needed a change, so they left jobs. Many are going back. The grass wasn't greener on the other side. Laura suggests before leaving a position have a talk with your manager. It's a failure in the relationship if the manager is not aware of your dissatisfaction. Invest in work relationships. There is no replacement for spending time with humans. [36:55] Some companies attempted to give big raises to prevent people from leaving. But it wasn't the money, it was the inadvertent slights that were the problems. Leaders have to be intentional and mindful of those small things. Many slights over a long period will add up. [38:32] Relationships are the most important thing. We need to treasure them, and to do that, we need to spend time with them and commit to them. Understand the person. Ask questions and be curious about who they are, what they like, and what they want to do. [39:06] The important thing about being grateful is to feel it. Laura asks the listener to remember when people were grateful for you and thanked you. Those are thoughts that will create biological change in you and bring out more emotions. Laura says, "So that's my challenge: is to not just make the list anymore about being grateful, just remember when people were grateful for you." [41:38] Closing quote: "Assumptions are the termites of relationships." — Henry Winkler. Quotable Quotes "So the uncertainty, the high emotions, and knowing that's something big we want to talk about, that matters to us; people usually will shy away from that." "[A difficult conversation is] not very comfortable. It also creates fear and anxiety for people. But the more important piece about why we avoid it is because we're going to be talking about something that's important to us and with that, usually, we get high, intense emotions." "The foundation of it is … owning your emotions and managing them and understanding them so you don't bring them into the room. Because you don't want two emotional people coming into a room." "It's important to notice [the small stuff], apologize for it, and then you can let go. I don't want you to sweat over it. Let's resolve it." "Many times the grass does look greener on the other side and that is part of the injuries that occur during the relationship. It's those little things, if there wasn't a big thing that you know, like an affair. … To just go love someone is difficult if there are injuries." "Injuries can only be healed if they're identified, understood, and forgiven as a part of that." "You need to have those conversations; you need connection. If people aren't feeling connected, whether at work or in your marriage, people will start looking over their shoulder for the grass to be greener." "Usually, they say to feel better or to help, think of three or five things to be grateful for before you go to bed or when you wake up. But the more important thing about being grateful is to feel it. … Remember the times when people were grateful for you." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Dr. Laura L. Bokar on LinkedIn Dr. Laura L. Bokar at Fox Valley Institute Fox Valley Institute We Need to Talk: 24 Simple Insights for Relationships Don't Sweat the Small Stuff . . . and It's All Small Stuff: Simple Ways to Keep the Little Things from Taking Over Your Life, by Richard Carlson Steven Covey The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, by Steven Covey Corporate Competitor Podcast, with Don Yaeger

Gino Wickman is an accomplished entrepreneur and innovator, creator of the EOS system, and author of many books, including Traction and Entrepreneurial Leap. Gino talks about his new book, "Entrepreneurial Leap." Gino describes what makes an entrepreneur, and whether you can learn the traits you need. Gino also shares how his early family business venture led to how he created the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®). Gino reveals that timing is not as important as adaptability. Products will always change. Customers will always have needs. Lastly, Gino offers a free assessment to see if you are an entrepreneur-in-the-making, or an entrepreneurial leader. Listen in for a fascinating lesson on the essence of entrepreneurship. https://bit.ly/TLP-315 Key Takeaways [2:26] Gino Wickman talks about balance and his passions of simple things. He's obsessed with entrepreneurs in his working life and pursues his passions in his personal life. [5:08] Do you have what it takes to be an entrepreneur? Every entrepreneur is a leader. Gino urges leaders who aren't entrepreneurs to open their minds to the possibility of being entrepreneurial leaders. Gino's life work is helping entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial leaders. At EOS, they are working with entrepreneurial leadership teams who run businesses of 10 to 250 persons. [6:12] Entrepreneurial Leap is for entrepreneurs who are about to take an entrepreneurial leap or who just took it and are in the startup phase. [6:37] Six essential traits make an entrepreneur:1.) Visionary, 2.) Passionate, 3.) Problem-solver, 4.) Driven, 5.) Risk-taker, and 6.) Responsible. [6:55] If you have these inborn traits, you are either an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur-in-the-making. If you are a leader with a few of these traits, you are in the right place and are an entrepreneurial leader. You're probably not going to take the risk to start a business and that's all OK. [7:20] The reason Gino wrote Entrepreneurial Leap is that being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar and everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. It's not for everyone. It's not all it's cracked up to be. If you take the entrepreneurial leap without having the six essential traits, you will be miserable for years and lose all your money. Gino breaks hearts and saves lives with the news! [8:21] Gino explains the six essential traits cannot be learned; you have to be born with them. Every true entrepreneur he knows agrees and has these six essential traits. He hopes he's wrong but he doesn't think he is! [9:20] How do entrepreneurs differ in their decision-making, taking on risks responsibly? A risk-taker knows the odds are that they are going to fail; they are willing to fail, depending on themselves 100% for income, and taking total responsibility for the outcome. [13:54] When Gino took the leap to create EOS he was armed with two thoughts: He saw the needs of entrepreneurs, mismanaging their businesses, and saw nothing but opportunity. He believed he could help them — he had no idea how! He burned so much with the passion to connect the dots that he threw himself out there and simply figured it out. Most people would not take the risk. [15:48] Gino discusses the meaning of risk. Is it as big a risk if you are well-prepared for it? Gino notes there is an entrepreneurial range, from one-person side hustle to the greatest entrepreneur in the world and every entrepreneur fits in that range. Large risks or small, there are always risks. [18:17] Timing matters. In 1,000 years of entrepreneurial history, two things have always changed: products and services and methods of communication. Two things have never changed: People have wants and needs and you have to persuade them. Gino contrasts the too-early Newton with the iPhone that revolutionized the world 15 years later as an example of timing. [19:58] When Gino built EOS Worldwide, the coaching industry exploded. His timing was perfect. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had perfect timing with software and computers. Entrepreneurs have to evolve with the times, keeping an ear to the ground and always knowing what the customer wants and needs. Be agile and adaptable. [22:50] Even with perfect timing for a product, the customer's wants and needs will change. The true entrepreneur will evolve to continue meeting those wants and needs. The person who got lucky with timing but does not evolve will be out of business in two to ten years. [24:46] Gino offers a free assessment at e-leap.com to determine if you have the six essential traits. [25:26] Gino wrote The EOS Life, which teaches the five points of how to live your ideal life. In that book, Gino shares energy management advice to help you live a balanced life doing what you love with people you love, making an impact, and making lots of money, with passion. Gino has launched a new platform around the ten disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy. [26:42] Gino shares the 10 disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy: 1.) 10-year thinking, 2.) Take time off, 3.) Know thyself, 4.) Be still, 5.) Know your 100% working time, 6.) Say no often, 7.) Don't do $25/hour work 8.) Prepare every night, 9.) Put everything in one place, 10.) Be humble. [27:25] Gino's platform for The 10 Disciplines is found at http://the10disciplines.com. The disciplines are how he manages and maximizes his energy. [28:40] The 10 disciplines assume you are a driven individual taking care of yourself. One principle is that you should never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do. Do high-value work and give the rest to employees. Gino hasn't looked at his email for 20 years. Email sucks his energy. He's on the move, he's creative, he's creating, he's teaching, he's helping, and his energy is high. [32:04] How do you maximize the benefit of having a mentor? Gino believes mentorship is a speed pass to success. He was blessed with two amazing mentors. His Dad, Floyd Wickman, was his people mentor for communication and leadership. Sam Cupp was his business mentor for running a company. Gino borrowed his father's book, Mentoring, for the mentoring part of The 10 Disciplines. [33:00] Gino teaches you how to find a mentor but first, you have to decide where you want to be. Go and find the person who is where you want to be. There's one out there who wants to pass on their wisdom and their legacy. Go work for them for free, attach yourself to them, and learn from them. Ask them if they will mentor you. Gino teaches how. Only about half of entrepreneurs have had mentors. [34:06] As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back are to thank them often and share with them how you're applying what they're teaching. Share the results. They are trying to pass on their legacy, and you can help them do it. [35:13] Gino delegates $500 an hour jobs to free himself for higher-value work. Once a quarter he delegates something big. He decided he needed to delegate his company, EOS. He did a five-year search for the right successor. The day after closing, he moved on to pursue his passion, which was creating Entrepreneurial Leap and now, The 10 Disciplines. Gino is just going to keep on creating stuff. [38:55] Gino uses his arms to communicate. He's Italian! His gestures are energy shooting out of his body. [40:55] Gino says most entrepreneurs are insecure. Gino was insecure at 18 but is more confident now. Gino quotes Daniel Kennedy, "We teach what we need the most." Gino has always taught what he needed the most. Around age 40, Gino fully believed he deserved his optimal life and that's what he teaches. [46:22] Closing quote: "There are many talented people who haven't fulfilled their dreams because they overthought it or they were too cautious and were unwilling to make the leap of faith." — James Cameron. Quotable Quotes "Being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar. So in the 70s and 80s, everyone wanted to be a rockstar. Nowadays, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur! And it's not for everyone, it's not all it's cracked up to be." "This is a cautionary tale. I'm trying to find the 4% that are [entrepreneurial] and help the 96% that aren't, realize 'This is not the career for me!' … People are taking entrepreneurial leaps; they don't have the six essential traits, and they are miserable!" "True entrepreneurs with these six essential traits are borderline clinically crazy! We are not sane people! We're not talking about sane people here. … It's about just being comfortable taking the leap without having all of the answers!" "It's a little scary and I never wanted to fail — never wanted to fail! But I have failed; it sucks! I licked my wounds when I failed but I picked myself up and I go! And for those that get paralyzed at the thought of taking a leap, you probably should not do this!" "I'm thinking of Steve Jobs when he came out with this hand-held device way too early, only to come out with it 15 years later and it revolutionized the world. So, there's an example of timing." "Never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do, … like checking your email, scheduling, booking travel, cutting your lawn, doing handy work. … Every hour you pay somebody $25 … to free yourself up to do $100, $200, $500, $1,000 an hour work, you are printing money." "As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back: 1.) Thank them often. 2.) Share with them how you're applying what they're teaching. Share the results." "My message to people is 'You deserve to live your optimal life, and even further, it's selfish not to because if you do it, you're going to impact and change so many lives, you're going to help me fix the world." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Gino Wickman GinoWickman.com Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business EOS Entrepreneurial Leap: Do You Have What it Takes to Become an Entrepreneur? Entrepreneurial Leap John McMahon Ted Turner Apple Newton iPhone Steve Jobs Bill Gates FREE entrepreneurial assessment e-leap.com The EOS Life The10disciplines.com Dave Crenshaw Sam Cupp Mentoring: The Most Obvious Yet Overlooked Key to Achieving More in Life than You Ever Dreamed Possible, by Floyd Wickman and Terri Sjodin Richard Newman

Richard Newman is the Founder and CEO of BodyTalk. In 21 years, Richard's team has trained over 100,000 business leaders globally to improve their communication and impact. Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning on the autism spectrum; and he feels it blessed him by guiding his life in a deep exploration of communication. He shares how he teaches the hero's journey to improve storytelling in meetings. Richard tells of the importance of nonverbal behaviors and of a research study he conducted with University College London on the effectiveness of postures and nonverbal behavior in projecting leadership qualities. Richard has great advice for leaders on lifting others to become the best versions of themselves. https://bit.ly/TLP-314 Key Takeaways [2:24] If Richard had been taller or a better player, he may have become a professional basketball player. He was sort of born in the wrong country. When he comes to the U.S., he loves going to watch basketball. There's not much of a basketball industry in the UK. [4:11] At age 17, Richard taught 11-year-olds at his school how to play basketball, to keep up with other schools. He thought of going into teaching. He went to a monastery in India on a gap program and taught the monks English, using only a chalkboard, body language, and tone of voice. At the end of the first lesson they could confidently speak a few English words and they loved it. He taught for six months. [7:30] Richard learned from teaching English that to communicate well, he had to have congruency between his body language, his tone of voice, and his words. To teach the word "excited" he had to sound and look excited. Congruency is one of the key elements of great communication. That principle became foundational to BodyTalk, the company he founded. [8:56] Richard learned Nepali in India, the easiest dialect of the three languages spoken in the city where the monastery was located. He became more fluent in Nepali than in the French or German he had learned in school. [10:44] The biggest communication error is to treat people as human "doings" rather than human beings. Presentations seek to engage the logical mind. Studies show that the emotional brain engages first, and then sends a memo to the logical brain telling it what to notice. Before a meeting (or email), ask yourself, "How do I need people to feel by the end of this meeting (or email)?" [13:32] Everybody talks about storytelling; they know they need it, but few people understand what it is. Robert McKee says when you listen to a piece of music, you don't automatically think you would be a great composer. When thinking of storytelling, why do you assume you would be a great storyteller? There is a framework you can learn to be able to tell stories well. [14:11] Storytelling allows us to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival mind, the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind. Joseph Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces introduced this structure in 1949 after having studied how people of different civilizations that never had contact with each other have told stories through the centuries. [15:01] Christopher Vogler in the 1980s reduced Campbell's 17-steps of the hero's journey into 12 steps. Richard Newman has simplified those steps into five sections that his company teaches people to use for composing an email or making a presentation. [15:30] If you want to cascade information, frame an important message, or pitch your business, learn the power of storytelling. Richard tells of a client who went from a win rate of one in four to a 100% win rate in the space of a year, getting over a billion dollars of new business. Frame the information to engage the survival and emotional brain, the logical brain, and then get people to take action at the end. [16:50] Jim Carey said that constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating. The way to turn any information into a more engaging story is to add in moments of feelings. Describe the feelings the facts give you. Start with your goal in mind. What feeling would people need to have for them to take the action you would persuade them to take? [21:50] Richard offers a tip on how to lose your self-consciousness and gain confidence. Before a meeting, get centered within yourself; have internal validation. Then, going into the room, focus entirely on what is happening outside of you, so you are always thinking, "How do I serve them? How do I make sure they understand? How do I get them to this feeling by the end of the conversation?" [27:41] People going through the Great Resignation are questioning their values and what they want their life to be about. Businesses sometimes have to make a hard decision because the easy one doesn't match their values. Choosing the easy path may give a short-term gain but it leads to long-term pain. People will follow you if they see you don't compromise your values for short-term benefits. [30:00] Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning autistic. He had a sense of sudden understanding. He'd known since he was a child he could not connect with his peers but didn't know why. He developed a passion for studying communication. As a teen, he read over 200 books on it, including nonverbal communication. He went to a professional acting school. He sees it as a blessing. [33:20] Jan refers to previous guest Tim Cole as a great storyteller. [34:12] Richard teaches behaviors that can increase leadership success by 44%. He developed these behaviors while giving over 1,000 presentations to a Formula 1 team. It was the same presentation with different statistics after each race, to different audiences. He started noticing what worked universally and teaching it to clients. They went to University College London to get it scientifically validated. [35:57] They worked with researcher Dr. Adrian Furnham, Head of Psychology. They developed an 18-month study using 100 videos of the same speech, with different speakers, using variations in the nonverbal behavior of the speaker, from the most common gestures to the ones that should give the appearance of leadership.[37:09 Dr. Alastair McLelland, the statistician, had never seen results like it! From the most common behaviors to the most effective behaviors, there was a 44% difference in the appearance of leadership. The best behaviors would change the number of people voting for you by 59%! Standing centered looks competent while leaning to one side, swaying, or walking back and forth gives poor ratings. [39:30] If you're speaking to a group, people want to know that you, as their tribe leader, can honestly lead the group. If they see gravitas, they will believe you; if they see a pushover, they will not. If they believe in you, they will engage with your message and follow you. Amy Cuddy's TED Talk on body language says if you stand or sit in a way that shows confidence, your confidence hormones rise. [42:53] Watching the early Democrat presidential debates in 2020, Richard spotted that Kamala Harris got the most emotional reactions from the audience. She didn't win the nomination, but Biden picked her to run with him for her emotional appeal. Richard doesn't recommend going for a negative response! [45:36] Being positive doesn't mean covering up bad facts. It is always better to dig into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it's important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge and discuss those and show that you care about them. People often forget to recognize challenges while they tell a story. People's challenges could disconnect them from the story. [46:08] Start from the sense that everybody cares about challenges and everybody cares about having a better future. We all have this pain/pleasure mechanism. Make sure you represent those. Go in with a sense of empathy rather than making those negative feelings worse. [47:04] Is showing a bad temper justifiable? Richard answers with a customer service experience he had. He recommends using the power of "lift," where you aim to lift the conversation. Before you go into the room. lift yourself to show up as your best version. Then go into the meeting and see the best version of them. They will want to live up to this. Leaders can encourage their team by seeing the best in them. [50:46] Jim's last words: There is nothing more powerful as a leader you can do for your team than to see their greatness. Don't show up as the hero. Lead them to be heroes; show up as their mentor. [52:03] Jan invites all listeners to give a listen to Corporate Competitor Podcast, hosted by Don Yaeger. [52:53] Jim closes with a quote: "Outstanding leaders go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it's amazing what they can accomplish." — Sam Walton. Quotable Quotes "By the time I got to be 17, I thought, … 'I'm going to teach the 11-year-olds at our school how to play basketball so they don't get beaten to pieces in their first game as we did.' So I started doing that. I loved that. I loved how much they gained from it." "[The monks and I] would sit together in the evenings after they came back from going out and doing prayers in the town, … and I would then aim to teach them how to speak English, and had to do it completely using body language and tone of voice." "[Congruency] is one of the key elements of great communication. When you have congruency, it becomes very charismatic but also much easier for people to pay attention, to listen to you, and to understand what you really mean." "You need to make sure you've got hearts and minds. You need to make sure you've engaged people emotionally first, then logically, and then they're more likely to follow you as a leader." "What storytelling allows us to do is to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival [mind], then the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind." "If people know how to use storytelling day-to-day, it's incredible how it increases your influence, and you can use it in a 30-second conversation, … or you can see this in a three-hour movie, or you can use it for a two-day conference that you're hosting, as well." "If you're speaking to a group, we want to know, as our tribe leader, can you honestly lead this group? If you've got gravitas, we believe it, if you're a pushover, we don't." "It is always worthwhile digging into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it's important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge those, and discuss those, and show that you care about them." "When people can't see the best version of themselves, see it in them for them, and by doing so, you give them an open door to become a lifted part of themselves." "You're seeing the greatness within them and allowing them to go on the journey, and that's what great leaders can do, they can lift everybody else to perform at their best." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Richard Newman BodyTalk Formula 1 Tour de France India Gap Year Association Helen Keller Nepali Kalimpong, India Darjeeling, India Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman Powerpoint Zoom Robert McKee The Hero With A Thousand Faces, by Joseph Campbell Christopher Vogler The Trier Social Stress Test The Great Resignation Nonverbal leakage Tim Cole University College London Adrian Furnham Alastair McLelland Amy Cuddy, TED Corporate Competitor Podcast with Don Yaeger

Sandra Stosz is the author of "Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters." Sandra is a retired U.S. Coast Guard Vice Admiral who served for over 40 years, including 12 years at sea. She often led all-male teams and was the first woman to lead a U.S. Armed Forces Service Academy. In this episode, Sandra shares with humility some of the leadership lessons she learned in the Coast Guard. She shares humorous stories, and reveals things she learned early that shaped her remarkable career, and why she baked cakes for her staff! https://bit.ly/TLP-313 Key Takeaways [1:36] Jim introduces Vice Admiral Sandra Stosz, Retired, tells of her background, and welcomes her to The Leadership Podcast. [2:08] Sandra's nephew Hunter Stosz is a Lieutenant in the Coast Guard, serving as the Combat Systems Officer on the Coast Guard National Security Cutter JAMES out of Charleston, S.C. Hunter was a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy when Sandra was the Superintendent. That was his leadership crucible! [3:01] Sandra's hobby is baking cakes! She would bring them into the office and give people a break to stop what they were doing and gather in the conference room to talk and laugh. [4:35] Sandra talks about the Coast Guard Academy, where she was Superintendent from 2011 to '15, and the Loy Institute for Leadership. She retired from the Coast Guard in 2018 but she is a trustee of the Loy Institute for Leadership, which is the Academy's agent for leadership development. [6:16] The Coast Guard Academy, like all the service academies, is a 200-week program, meaning four full years of school. A lot of the Academy's leadership development happens during the summer. Training is given through a framework called LEAD: Learn from theory, Experience through practice, Analyze using reflection, and Deepen understanding from mentoring. [7:09] It's a virtuous cycle of leader development. It starts with cadets learning in a classroom from Posner and Kouzes's Leadership Challenge for leadership theory. Then they put the cadets on the water for experiential leadership development through seamanship in sailing programs, and small boat practice, all on the water. The more senior cadets use a practicum that tells them how to instruct. [8:19] After a day on the water, the cadets analyze through reflection. They sit down and "hotwash" what happened; what they want to repeat next time, what they want to avoid next time, and what they learned. Then the cadets deepen their understanding through mentoring. Everybody who learns continues to mentor somebody else, making it a virtuous cycle. [8:48] Sandra shares a story of leadership learning. The cadets sailing a ship tacked suddenly without warning the cook in the galley, the only female cadet on board. Hotdogs flew all over the deck and what seemed funny to the cadets on deck upset the cook who felt laughed at and disrespected. Leadership also means inclusion and respect. [11:18] You can learn to lead through practical experience. The Coast Guard Academy collects data from performance reviews to measure leadership development over the four-year program. It's hard to measure leadership development over four years but they are on a mission to do that and they are getting closer every month. [12:15] The Coast Guard Academy LEAD framework is built upon the Coast Guard framework of leading self, leading others, and leading the organization. Cadets learn to lead themselves and lead others. They do not advance to leading the organization at the Academy. Sandra tells a story of a cadet who carelessly filled the fuel tank with water. He will never do that again, having learned by experience. [15:12] Officers in the Coast Guard learn to lead the organization, which is strategic. Sandra has seen senior leaders fall short and fail when they did not mature from tactical thinking to strategic thinking. Strategy is looking over the horizon to anticipate threats that might come over that horizon, and then adjust, adapt, and be agile. [16:15] At the organizational level, you face crises where the easy decisions and actions have been made at the lower levels; if it ends up in your hands, it is a big decision. You've got to be strategic and decisive. A lot of people aren't strategic or are not decisive. They haven't learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect the organization and how the organization relates to others. [17:59] Jim highly recommends Sandra's book. It addresses the balance between power and control. Sandra speaks of the responsibility of the individual and the team to find ways to power through crisis and adversity. There is leadership at all levels. It's not just about the top boss. Sandra mentions Extreme Ownership. [19:50] It is popular now to blame others for everything wrong so you don't have to own up to it. Sandra was thinking about that when she wrote her book. She was grateful when someone gave her a Serenity Prayer plaque at a difficult point in her career. She was trying to control everything and having trouble letting go of things she couldn't control. She carried that prayer to every duty station. [20:50] The balance between control and power reminds Sandra of Aristotle's Golden Mean, which is the balance between extremes. The most powerful thing you can do is release your control and give your power away. Giving power away empowers others. You don't lose anything by giving power away. You gain the respect and trust of those you empower. [22:12] Control originates from humility and power originates from hubris. Sandra explains why humility is hard to maintain as you advance in rank. The more senior she became, she tried hard to build trust and earn respect and not use her position of power. [23:59] Sandra shares a story on the paradox of control about giving away power. Her Captain gave his power to her, a young lieutenant, to give an important brief to a Commandant of the Coast Guard. She had never given a speech before! For the rest of her career, she worked to give her power away to younger officers. [27:26] Jan cites an Arthur Brooks article, "Being special vs. happy: What success addiction looks like and how to recover," that discusses motivation and happiness. What would Sandra's advice be to her 27-year-old self? She would tell her younger self that prevention comes before response and remember the importance of establishing boundaries. [31:41] The four types of exhaustion or wellness are physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Don't allow yourself to be exhausted in all four of these areas at the same time! You can manage your wellness with a structure of boundaries built on a foundation of values. If you can't manage your wellness, you can't manage your team's wellness. [36:15] One of the chapters of Sandra's book is "There's no secret ingredient." — Kung Fu Panda. Sandra sees 10 leadership lessons in Kung Fu Panda and Kung Fu Panda 2.[37:26] Sandra shares a foundational story from serving on her first ship, an icebreaker sailing to Antarctica. She learned the Three Ps of Power: Personal, Professional, and Positional. Lean on the first two and go to the third only as a last resort. Your personal power is your EQ. Your professional power is your work ethic and values. Your positional power is your rank or leadership role. [39:44] Use your personal and professional power every day and you will build trust and earn respect. People will want to do their jobs because they feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves, they feel shared values, they know their purpose, they have pride and passion, and they want to end each day deeply content, satisfied, and feeling good about themselves, their work, and life. [41:12] Leadership is not all in a textbook. It's hard to learn it and hard to teach it. If you're trying to understand leadership and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal. Jan shares a message with new listeners. Jan and Jim use the tagline, "We study leaders." After interviewing 300 leaders, we're still learning. It will be our lifelong pursuit. [43:02] Sandra's advice for people in transition from one chapter of their life to the next: Watch out for becoming part of another "me" generation. The people who will be happiest, in the long run, will be are going to look at how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. They're going to persevere. They're going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors. [45:20] Sandra's last words are about life-long learning. She stayed for 40 years in the Coast Guard because it gave her opportunities to train, advance, and go to the Kellogg Business School, the National War College, and a Capstone program. She continues to read and develop herself. Life-long learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way. [47:06] Jan closes with a quote from Amelia Earhardt on the decision to act. Quotable Quotes "Every once in a while, you need a reason to laugh when you're at work and you're in a really tough job. I think the cakes helped build that camaraderie and that's one thing I like about in-person workplaces." "We expect the cadets to make a mistake when they're learning how to lead themselves. It's trial and error. And this is the time when we give them leeway to fail and pick themselves up, and make mistakes, admit them, and try not to repeat them." "I've seen senior leaders fall short and even fail if they keep on with the behaviors that made them successful while leading self and leading others and they move into leading the organization but don't mature to strategic thinking." "Be strategic and be decisive. A lot of times, people … haven't learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect an organization, ... the programs, and how that organization relates to others. … Move up into the strategic decision-making realm." "Type "A"s out there, hear me! You want to control everything and it can drive you crazy. And if you don't let it go it will burn you out." "The most powerful thing you can do is to release your control and release your power and give your power away." "The best leaders cultivate their humility, which is really hard to do as you advance up in the ranks. Whether it's the military or if it's a private sector, or public non-profit, the more senior you get, people are treating you a little differently up in the ranks." "What you should be seeking is deep contentment and satisfaction. That comes with a different way of looking at life. It comes from balancing and this becomes the response." "People never make good choices; they always have to learn from experience, right?" "So many people are in the leadership space and trying to teach leadership and it's not easy. … If you are trying to understand leadership, how to be a better leader, and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal." "The people who are going to be happiest, in the long run, … look to find out how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. … They're going to persevere. They're going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors." "Lifelong learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way where you're meeting all of your objectives and you're staying motivated. Otherwise, you lose the meaning of life if you don't continue to focus on life-long learning." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Vice Admiral Sandra L. Stosz Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters U.S. Coast Guard U.S. Coast Guard Academy The U.S. Coast Guard National Security Cutter JAMES Loy Institute for Leadership Admiral James Loy The Leadership Challenge: How to Make Extraordinary Things Happen in Organizations, by James M. Kouzes and Barry Z. Posner Congressman Dan Crenshaw Kellogg School of Management National War College Coast Guard Capstone program Amelia Earhart What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful, by Marshall Goldsmith and Mark Reiter James Mattis Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win, by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin Aristotle Arthur Brooks, "Being special vs. happy: What success addiction looks like and how to recover" Boundaries: When to Say Yes, When to Say No-To Take Control of Your Life, by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend 9/11 Bill Murray, "Army Training, Sir" Kung Fu Panda Kung Fu Panda 2 Senator Blutarsky Great Resignation