The Leadership Podcast

Sabrina Horn is an award-winning CEO, tech industry communications expert, and advisor with over 30 years of experience.  In 1991, she founded Horn Group, one of Silicon Valley’s most iconic public relations firms, and built it from the ground up to national acclaim. While growing her business and working with countless entrepreneurs and CEOs, she came to understand how deeply a leader’s actions can impact a company’s success. From her book, Make It, Don’t Fake it, Sabrina shares how honesty and authenticity lead to success in business, and in life.   Key Takeaways [2:20] Sabrina has a stamp collection and shares where it all started. [4:30] Talking about her book, Make It, Don’t Fake it, Sabrina shares the different ways people fake it. [5:55] People exaggerate the truth. Sabrina provides some examples. [6:35] Sabrina explains what she calls “ostrich lies.” [7:05] Selective truth-telling can be very dangerous. [9:10] Procrastination or avoiding the truth is more harmful than exaggeration. Sabrina shares a story to explain why. [13:00] Sabrina shares her thoughts on the book, Leadership BS. [15:10] More recently, everybody’s language is all about empathy, humility, and authenticity. This book would not play well today. [17:10] What some leaders do to get power and keep power is to withhold information. Sabrina shares insight on how to handle difficult conversations truthfully. [20:05] It’s tough being a leader and employer managing through the pendulum of a company’s profitability. [22:45] Sabrina talks about imposter syndrome. [24:20] How to deal with imposter syndrome: Meet with everybody, be the director of your own movie, use the “we” word, and lastly, remember that you’ve earned your success. [28:05] Cognitive behavioral therapy and mentors can help you with your imposter syndrome. Sabrina shares her own experience with this. [30:35] Jan asks Sabrina why good PR should have nothing to do with spin. [32:25] It’s not about being better or sexier, faster, or cheaper, it’s about being different. Sabrina shares how honesty can be a great PR strategy now. [35:05] There are so many people clamoring for attention and it feels emotionally draining. Sabrina shares her insights on the best strategy for marketing. [37:55] Because of the amount of information we are being bombarded with now, leaders can’t be numb if we expect our people to be resilient. [40:50] Sabrina shares a piece of advice that is hardest for her to take as well. [42:10:] Sabrina would tell her twenty-nine-year-old self to make an effort to build a team of mentors and advisers and be true to her own convictions. [45:15] Sabrina shares some practices on how to stay true to your own core values as a leader. [48:10] A bad subculture can infect the whole. Sabrina explains how this can relate to your company and brand. [49:20] Sabrina’s closing thoughts: Be successful by doing things the right way.   Quotable Quotes “So, we go from this seemingly innocent not-meaning to do any harm to crossing the line where you actually are saying and doing things with the intent to deceive.” “Hope is not a strategy.” “A leader may be tempted to lie and to deceive in order to get out of a tough situation or under pressure but the problem with that and with all kinds of faking it is ultimately the truth always comes out.” “Imposter syndrome can arise in situations where people don't know who you are, and you don’t know who they are. And you’re walking in there and people think you’re going to put on a show for them.” “Spin really is about us peeling back the onion, getting to the absolute truth so that you can then find a path forward through a crisis or to create a great brand and tell a great story.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Sabrina’s book:

Banks Benitez joined Uncharted in 2012 as an unpaid intern, and became the CEO in 2017. Since stepping in as CEO, Banks and his leadership have tripled the size of the team and doubled their revenue. Also during the pandemic, Banks moved to a four-day workweek at the same wages. In this episode, Banks shares his insight on the move to a four-day week, and the lessons learned about time management, mental health, and productivity. As a CEO, Banks went  from 52 hours a week to 34 hours a week!   Key Takeaways [1:50] Advice Jim and Jan give to veterans is, “If you hear about really interesting people, just reach out to them.” [2:20] Banks has not only grown his organization to triple its size but shifted to a four-day workweek. [5:20] Banks is currently reading Making Numbers Count, by Chip Heath. [6:20] Banks shares his story on how he got selected for Rotary International. [9:35] Jan believes understanding anthropology will also help you towards being a better leader. [11:00] Banks talks a little bit about his company, Uncharted, and the inspiration behind it. [12:15] It’s so easy to be a fixer of problems. As a leader, Banks found himself spending all of his time making things “less bad.” [13:35] Banks and his COO decided to change things up after feeling burned out within the company. They decided to go on the offensive instead of being on the defensive. [17:55] Banks is a few months into his company working on a four-day workweek. He shares his results so far. [20:35] Banks was nervous at first when he had to talk to his investors and clients about this. He was worried they would not see him as a serious company. [23:15] Banks has noticed that his team really hates a three-day week. [24:55] Prior to converting over to a four-day workweek, Banks decided to hire a third party to help evaluate the productivity and measure if it made sense to convert over. [28:34] The book Essentialism, by Greg McKeown was critical in determining what was important work and what was not. [29:55] Jim and Jan hear topics about mental health all the time with their clients. It’s important. People are getting burned out. [30:30] You can easily quantify turnover costs and when people burn out, and how much it takes to replace that talent. A four-day workweek makes you competitive. [35:50] Banks explains how Uncharted works and how they’ve been a successful non-profit company. [37:40] Entrepreneurs who are successful tend to be coachable and follow up/follow through. [39:45] Sell the problem, not the solution. [43:55] Busyness and working “hard” is a cultural value that needs to be questioned. [44:35] When Banks closes his laptop on Thursday night, he still feels incomplete. There’s still a lot to get done. [45:35] The more you focus on brute force hard work, the less you are refining your “decisive” muscle. [48:40] Listener challenge: Plant yourself in the richest soil you possibly can.   Quotable Quotes “It’s so easy to be a fixer of problems. It’s easier to fill holes, but it’s harder to build peaks.” “We spent the whole month of May in 2020 to how we might optimize our work week; the ways we could get smarter about how we structure our time.” “Not all hours of the workweek are created equally. They are some hours that are productive. There are some hours that are a complete waste of time.” “My day before, I was working 52 hours a week. Now I am down to 34 hours a week.” “The best entrepreneurs that we work with are those who are really good at handling a lot of loose ties.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Ralf Specht has been called “a visionary business leader” by FastCompany Press, and he is the creator of the Soul System™, a framework that aligns value-creating employee action with broader corporate strategy through shared understanding and purpose. Ralf is the author of, “Building Corporate Soul.” Corporate soul means integrity, shared purpose, shared understanding, and behaviors. Listen in to learn how “soul” can make a difference  with talent attraction and retention.   Key Takeaways [4:40] Ralf shares why it’s hard to execute on value-first behaviors within the business world. [8:20] Mission, vision, and values get blurred a lot. Ralf details how soul and spirit also play a part in the overall company objective, and how you can blend them together. [10:00] Ralf defines what purpose, vision, mission, and values mean to him. [11:45] Ralf uses LinkedIn as an example of how they effectively live out each of these unique distinctions. [16:15] Ralf gives three examples of companies that were purchased because of their culture, and how they were able to maintain that culture after an acquisition. [19:40] Ralf offers ways individuals can gauge whether their company has a high level of trust within their culture. [22:35] For the corporate soul to really thrive and grow, there needs to be a certain set of principles. Each chapter in Ralf’s book has “soul-searching” questions to help leaders explore these unique principles. [27:40] Ralf breaks down what the soul index is and how it was calculated. [29:45] Patagonia is often mentioned as a great example of a timeless and impactful company that lives out its company’s values, but it wasn’t mentioned in Ralf’s soul index. He explains the reasoning behind this. [32:30] There is a great resignation happening right now. Ralf offers insight into why employees are really leaving. [35:35] Jan understands it’s often hard to develop certain characteristics within people like drive and curiosity. [38:35] Ralf shares how interview candidates can vet and gauge whether a prospective company has a corporate soul. [40:35] If you’re interested in a job position, ask if you can talk to three happy employees within the company. [43:00] If you’re always surrounded by yes-men, you’re not going to really get what you want. [44:35] Listener challenge: You need a great corporate culture to be successful in business.   Quotable Quotes “When I talk ‘purpose,’ I am talking about the reason for being in business. When I’m talking ‘vision,’ it’s to imagine a world that does not yet exist. ‘Mission’ is the overall goal and what kind of product we provide, and ‘values’ are beliefs/principles that define the business.” “Corporate soul means integrity, shared purpose, shared understanding, and behaviors.” “It’s the people in the company who understand whether the company has got soul.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Ralf’s book:

Ann Latham is the founder of Boston-area consulting firm Uncommon Clarity, Inc. and author of The Power of Clarity. Ann spent the first half of her career working in high-tech companies, beginning as a software engineer and winding up reporting to the CEO and leading cross-functional and cross-divisional efforts to set strategy and make operational improvements. Ann shares how to create clarity within your organization to increase productivity, increase your confidence and effectiveness towards people, and empower your employees to maximize their contributions.   Key Takeaways [3:00] Ann shares her experience hiking through the Swiss Alps and her greatest takeaway from it. [6:15] The feeling of clarity is rare in today’s times where things seem to be more complicated. Ann explains why that is. [7:55] All activities that are moving cognitive objects are inefficient and ineffective because there is no clear process in making decisions. [9:00] Ann talks about how to get more formalized processes into cognitive activities in a business or organization. [10:45] There are a lot of tools we could use but there is no one way to create a strategy. [12:40] Ann shares how to break the cycle of busyness. [14:45] She also talks about the three different ways you can create clarity as a mid-level leader. [15:55] There are only five effective ways to deal with too much workload. Ann explains each one of them and adds that number six is called, “wishful thinking.” [18:40] Patience vs. Clarity. Ann shares an example of what clarity really means: to not need patience. [22:05] Patience is important when you are asking for people to change their behavior or to understand new concepts. [24:05] Some leaders might not have an idea how to create clarity so they have no idea how to teach someone else to be clear. Ann shares her evolution from when she was just starting as a consultant. [25:25] She urges leaders to read her book to understand why they aren’t being clear enough and learn the techniques she has. [26:20] Ann shares the two reasons why big decisions are rarely big decisions. [30:15] Using a disciplined decision-making process can help define which decisions are the critical ones. Ann shares four steps on how to do that. [33:35] A lot of what Ann shares falls into common sense but leaders can still lack the level of specificity required to make things clear. [35:30] Ann explains further what is the dynamic between creating clarity as a leader vs. as an employee. [37:50] Everyone hates meetings and Ann uses this as an example to distinguish clarity. Everyone should know what must be different when they are done. [42:00] Ann also talks about two ways people delegate and the key to no-risk delegation. [44:55] Listener Challenge: We are not as clear as we think we are. The power of clarity creates a huge opportunity.   Quotable Quotes “If you think about asking people how they make decisions, you’ll get as many answers as the number of people you ask. There isn’t a shared clear method for making decisions.” “The farther you get from the production processes, the less clear we are.” “If you’re not specific enough and you’re running in too many different directions, you don’t create clarity at all. You create a mess.” “They (the mid-level leaders) have to push back. And by pushing back, they help themselves and they also help the people who report to them.” “If you break things down into what those cascading decisions are, you can get into places much faster.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Ann’s book:

Stephan Aarstol is well known for his appearance on Shark Tank as the founder and CEO of Tower Paddle Boards and Tower Electric Bikes. After being funded by Mark Cuban on ABC’s Shark Tank in 2012, Tower went on to become one of the biggest success stories in the history of the show. As an internet business entrepreneur since 1999, Stephan felt it was time for another disruption and wanted to  force creative thinking? Through his new book, The Five Hour Workday. In this episode, Stephan shares the principles needed to spark creative thinking, and why it doesn’t take a traditional eight-hour day.   Key Takeaways [2:10] Stephan shares something about himself that not many people know about. [3:10] Stephan explains what is the most important leadership quality an entrepreneur needs. [5:55] In the tech world where everything is fast-changing, we need to keep pace and be more agile. Stephan shares what are the early warning signs to be aware of. [7:05) Stephan shares an example of how not to spend money unnecessarily in order to be profitable. [10:25] Stephan is known for having the worst pitch on Shark Tank. Despite this, he was still able to land the deal. [12:40] Stephan shares what his go-to questions would be if he was a Shark on Shark Tank. [16:05] As a mature business owner, Stephan looks at things differently now. However, when you have nothing to lose, that’s the perfect time to start a business. [18:00] Stephan talks about his journey into writing The Five Hour Workday. [20:25] The key difference between Stephan’s book and Tim Ferriss’s The Four Hour Work Week was that Ferriss’s book was about individuals outsourcing their work and compressing their days. Stephan wanted to apply the same principles to an organizational framework. [21:45] During the pandemic when Tower was about to go bankrupt, they used their ability to work faster to double their productivity. They did it for a year and were able to double their revenues. [22:30] Stephan shares how he overcame the challenge for his organization to use The Five Hour Workday as a motivation rather than an entitlement. [24:35] The pandemic created a constraint for all businesses and his book has found new interest because work has changed now. The pandemic allowed businesses to go into creative thinking. [25:45] Remote work is going to work for at least 10% of the population as they are intrinsically motivated. However, the remaining 90% look for the path of least resistance. Stephan shares his prediction and why remote work could be a disaster. [28:00] Being called The World’s Best Boss, Stephan shares his thoughts about having this title. [31:00] Constraint is how you change the way you work from being traditional to becoming disruptive and forcing creative thinking. [33:10] Stephan also talks about his key takeaway from Tim Ferris’s book: Management by absence. [34:30] One of the biggest leadership lessons Stephan had was going through trial and error. [35:50] The biggest advantage of being an entrepreneur with a small company is you get to pick the people you take on your journey and experience hardships with. [37:05] Looking back, Stephan shares what he would do differently, historically and moving forward. [42:00] Listener challenge: We’re in a scary time. Figure out how to get your burn rate to negative and diversify.   Quotable Quotes “When you’re in college, this is the time to have a business because you have nothing to lose. You have no experience - and you have nothing to lose.” “We squeezed people for time during the busy season and that’s the magic of it. You put an unrealistic constraint and that forces creative thinking.” “Start-ups basically disrupt the world constantly and it’s because of constraints. Constraint is the way you do it. That’s what we did with The Five Hour Workday.” “The world has changed and we have these very powerful companies. We are in a really scary time right now and I would say, go for cover and figure out how to get your burn rate to negative and diversify.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Stephan’s book:

Brant Cooper is the New York Times bestselling author of “The Lean Entrepreneur,” and the CEO of Moves the Needle. With over two decades of expertise helping companies bring innovative products to market, he blends agile, design thinking, and lean methodologies to ignite entrepreneurial action. Brant’s new book, “Disruption Proof,” explores the three drivers of leadership and organizational disruption, and how leaders today can use this power to embrace uncertainty for maximum effect.   Key Takeaways [3:35] When we are successful, we want to take credit. When we fail, we retreat and examine why. [4:10] Disruption creates the opportunity for the entrepreneurial mindset. [6:15] Brant defines disruption. [7:00] The pandemic was brutal for many businesses, but this is just a small learning lesson for what’s to come. We will see multiple bubbles of disruption. [8:25] When it comes to disruption, Brant uses the acronym RAD = Resilient, Aware, Dynamic. [11:55] When faced with uncertainty, create as many small experiments as you can to gain a better understanding and bring more unknown information into the known. [12:55] Jim shares an example of how Rockefeller innovated in times of uncertainty and disruption. [15:30] The biggest setbacks in business are when businesses don’t explore and illuminate assumptions. [16:25] Brant shares his thoughts on how you can cultivate a RAD mindset throughout the entire organization. [20:45] Managers’ new role isn’t to micromanage and be “on top” of their people, it’s to cultivate a learning environment. [24:55] Brant breaks down how you can test out your riskiest assumption first in a safe way. [31:00] A good team doesn’t just depend on one leader. They depend on each other and even team members might switch between being the leader themselves, based on their expertise. [35:25] Companies are always focused on being under budget and on time, which leaves gaps in developing their talent. [40:00] Brant shares examples of how companies of the past have empowered their people to solve tricky problems in the moment. [43:00] Not everyone understands what it means to be “empowered.” Leaders need to set an example of what that actually looks like. [45:55] Listener challenge: Put an expiration date on the calendar to explore uncertainties.   Quotable Quotes “Failure is where the wisdom comes from, not from your successes.” “I don’t think this is the last major disruption that’s going to roll across our economy.” “We are living in this interconnected mesh network world with the speed of information. It’s this connectedness that makes us more fragile to disruptions.” “Our first inclination is that everyone wants to be empowered and everyone knows how to be empowered, and it’s really not that way.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Brant’s book:

As the CEO of Imagine Think, Nora Herting helps expand the definition of creativity in the business world. As the author of the best-selling book, “Draw Your Big Idea,” Nora has inspired thousands to think visually to access their own creativity. Nora breaks down the myth that drawing is only for the creatives, and showcases real examples of how leaders can add another dimension to their ideas (and execution effectiveness)  through simple doodles. Listen in to  unlock and inspire others in new ways beyond the written word!   Key Takeaways [3:15] Nora shares insight about visual leadership. [5:00] Paintings have been a form of communication for thousands of years. [7:10] When we use our brain, we don’t just use the right brain or the left brain hemispheres while doing a task, we use the entire brain. [9:10] If you or your team is stuck somewhere, try drawing a picture! [9:15] Nora explains how leaders can empower their staff to embrace their artistic side more effectively. [14:45] Jim shares an example of how powerful visuals are in a presentation to bring home the core message. [20:10] An important skill to have is to patiently wait for people to finish and to know when they’ve finished their point. [21:55] Nora shares the difference between having a liberal arts degree vs. an MBA. [25:35] Instead of looking within your industry and what the competition is doing, look elsewhere. Look at politics, cultural events, or other industries not related to you for inspiration. [28:05] Creatives and implementers tend to clash with one another, but Jim talks about the book Loonshots and how you can blend these two groups together for collaboration. [34:10] Nora offers resources on the types of visual tools leaders and teams can use. [35:55] Jim and Jan admit that their handwriting is horrible. It’s hard to multitask when talking and writing. [37:00] If you have terrible handwriting, Nora offers a quick tip on how to fix this. [39:45] Listener challenge: Ask your team to draw out the description of their role and what they do every day.   Quotable Quotes “If you’re stuck on a problem, try solving that problem visually.” “We are wired to think in pictures and we’ve been doing it as a species for so long.” “The business world has a real fascination with creativity, but it mystifies business leaders.” “Artists are looking outside for inspiration all the time. They’re not just looking at what people in their field are doing but they’re pulling things from all over, like science, politics, and cultural events.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Nora’s book,

Peter Docker is the co-author of the book, Find Your Why, and formerly a founding Igniter at Simon Sinek Inc. He draws on his 25-year career in the Royal Air Force, and over 14 years spent partnering with businesses around the world to inspire them to lead. Peter teaches people how to navigate the challenge of leadership. His latest book, Leading from the Jumpseat, delivers the message that leadership is about lifting people up, and giving them the space they need to lead!   Key Takeaways [2:15] Peter reveals an interesting fact about him when he was at the age of 42. [3:35] Peter tells the story behind the Jumpseat Leader when he was still flying with the Royal Air Force. [7:34] As a leader, handing over control is inevitable at some stage. Leading from the jumpseat is a mindset and approach which helps us to lead intentionally in that perspective. [10:20] Peter talks about the four parts of his book through metaphors of flying: Learning To Fly, Flying, Teaching Others To Fly, and Leading From The Jumpseat. [11:30] These stages are not meant to be a single progression. We can be at different stages in different aspects of our life. [15:25] It takes a lot of time to teach and develop people. Peter shares more analogies on how leaders can better manage in order to delegate. [16:25] Delegation is not abdication of responsibility. It only frees up space for leaders to focus on most things that only they have authority over. [17:30] In the short term, the pace will be slow but in the long term, delegating will allow your team to accelerate much more quickly. [22:20] Peter also shares his insights on how to teach followership as a leader. [23:15] Individualism and teamwork are not mutually exclusive. Peter explains why he thinks so. [28:40] As leaders, we can create opportunities for people to have a choice which is very important for their engagement. [29:50] Context vs. content. Peter tells a story about a young woman named Louise who challenged herself to climb the Island Peak of Nepal to illustrate why context is vital. [34:50] Learning and being kind to ourselves is very important in leadership. The willingness to get up every morning to do a little bit better goes a long way. [36:45] Exploring what is really important to us releases enormous energy once we are able to connect to it. Peter tells another story with his wife being involved in an accident as an example. [42:20] The promise we make to ourselves is actually about other people. Peter explains why it is so. [43:26] Peter shares his experience in the Iraq war back in 2003 to give more context in regards to the promise we keep for ourselves towards others. [45:00] Making a promise to yourself is more powerful when it is in service to others. [47:25] Listener challenge: Learn to lead when you don’t know the answer.   Quotable Quotes “We all eventually give out control. And it’s about preparing our people so they can take the lead when the time is right.” “We’re right back down at the bottom again, trying to figure out how to fly. But that’s the wonderful thing about it because it gives us the opportunity to maintain our humility to continue to learn and embrace the unknown.” “Delegation is not abdication and also it is not an excuse for micromanagement.” “We want to be involved in things; it’s nice to be able to handle stuff and get stuff done. But every time we take on more things, the slower our team’s progress becomes.” “If we are always the guy who has the answer, we become the constriction in the pipe.” “As a leader, what we can do is to shift the context so that people see what they are struggling against and see it instead as an opportunity to be taken on. And that then gives them the chance to really push themselves.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Peter’s books, and

Scott Shute was the Head of Mindfulness and Compassion Programs at LinkedIn, and specializes in combining the practicalities of leading in the modern business world with the wisdom of ancient traditions to help individuals and companies be leaders in conscious business. He is also the author of “The Full Body Yes,” that shows how to find a meaningful life, and meaningful work. Scott brings his years of expertise in mental well-being to share how leaders can better support their staff when so many people are currently disengaged.   Key Takeaways [3:50] Companies that have fully transferred into the information age, like LinkedIn, have no hard assets. Their only asset of value is their people. [6:15] Jobs aren’t fun. Leaders need to think about different ways on how to design a job that’s engaging. [6:20] Scott shares his definition of compassion and how it works in a business setting. [7:45] If you only focus on shareholder interests, you are less profitable. However, if you focus on providing value for employees and customers, you perform better than the S&P 500. [9:00] If you treat all of your employees the same, then guess what, they’ll look for a more engaging boss that cares. [10:50] You often hear, “bring your whole self to work” but no one wants to hear about your messy divorce every day at work. Scott explores what this phrase really means. [13:25] Scott realizes that most of the classes he took in university were useless for the real world. [13:55] Our well-being used to be taboo to talk about, but now the dialogue has opened up because of what we’re going through as a collective. [21:15] When you want truth as much as you want air to breathe, then that’s when you’ll find it. [27:20] Scott talks about the concept of Ikigai and how it can be used as a good filter to determine whether you’re on the right path. [32:50] Every tough situation we go through only builds self-awareness and compassion for other people. [37:50] A good exercise is to keep asking yourself why. Why do you want what you currently want? Why, why, why? You’ll often discover that you just want to be fulfilled and achieve happiness. [39:55] With everything happening “now” or in an instant, Scott shares how leaders can help train their team to practice delayed gratification. [42:00] Listener challenge: Take a moment to say I love you to yourself.   Quotable Quotes “Fifty-six percent of Americans are currently actively looking for their next role. My belief is that that 56% will find leaders that do invest in them.” “To be a great leader, you have to be a student of the game. You watch great leaders and listen to podcasts, and have a growth mindset.” “Why are you being so upset? I realized it was because I was so invested and attached to the outcome.” “It starts with self-compassion. It starts with the idea that you love yourself.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Scott’s book,

Dr. Bob Nelson is one of the world’s leading authority on employee recognition, motivation, and engagement. He has personally coached Marshall Goldsmith - ranked as the world’s #1 executive coach. Listen in as Bob shares how to make work fun again, and discusses how to hire better, how to make people feel valued, and how to retain workers in an increasingly competitive market.     Key Takeaways [5:10] People do better when they’re recognized for their good work. However, managers have a horrible time giving recognition to their employees. [7:55] You need five good praises to make up for every one negative action. [10:10] Companies will spend millions of dollars on how to get better at recognition, but won’t ask the employee directly what makes them feel valued. [11:00] No one feels special about going to the holiday party. That is not a good way to recognize the individual employee. [12:30] How companies treat their employees when they’ve made a mistake is a great indication of whether they are good at recognizing the good work the employee has done or not. [14:55] People don’t want to go back to work because they’re burnt out and the health risks far outweigh the financial reward. [16:20] People are convinced that employees aren’t coming back to work because they’re on unemployment benefits. Actually, that isn’t true. Dr. Bob expands on this. [18:00] Fun has to be part of the mix at work. However, a foosball table in the hall is not what Dr. Bob means by making work fun. [19:20] The worst thing you can do is to assume you know what’s important to your employees without asking them. [21:335] Dr. Bob worked closely with NASA recently and he shares what NASA does differently and why it’s ranked one of the best places to work within the federal government. [28:10] Motivation is a moving target. It’s hard to measure and it’s very specific to the individual. [33:35] Companies want people back in the office for the collaboration and culture, but as work colleagues become reunited in person once again, nothing has changed to facilitate that more effectively. [35:05] Listener challenge: Don’t be fooled. These things sound easy, but it takes consistent and conscious effort to implement. [36:45] Dr. Bob has a special gift for you!   Quotable Quotes “Recognition makes people feel special. The stuff companies are doing isn’t making people feel excited and special about what they personally did.” “Leaders are way too quick to blame things on money.” “Get out of your own way. It’s not what you think is important. It’s what your employees think is. Have that conversation.” “It’s getting out of your own skin to value the other person. If you do that as a leader, by serving them, they will serve you.” “Fun is frivolous… unless you want to attract and keep good employees.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Dr. Bob’s book,