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In a thought-provoking discussion, Chuck DeGroat, an expert on narcissism in church contexts, sheds light on the complex dynamics of narcissism within religious communities. He differentiates between narcissistic traits and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, emphasizing the impact of trauma on behavior. The conversation delves into how narcissistic leadership thrives across the theological spectrum and the resulting collective defensive postures within congregations. Using Mars Hill Church as a case study, Chuck highlights the dangers of a combative cultural mentality that undermines empathy and authentic connections.

It’s time for another Generation Gap Culture Hour where I sit down with Josh Gilbert and Tony Jones to talk about current culture from across our 20-year age perspectives.In today’s episode we talk about: How bands I toured with on the Warped Tour are now featuring at venues reserved for “legacy acts.” 👀 Band merchandise etiquette, including one very cringe story from Tony Current events including Trump’s presidency and the TikTok ban The absurdity of long URLs in podcast advertising Institutions and outdated social media practices Our favorite media of 2024: books about burnout culture, Korean War fighter pilots, and the fall of the Roman Empire In the patron-only second half, we get more in-depth discussing Joe Rogan's recent interactions with Christian figures, and examining the intersection of apologetics, early Christian history, and religious experience.Highlights:05:45 Political Concerns and TikTok Ban Discussions14:47 Dude Lit, Books, Movies & TV Shows of the Year23:53 Joe Rogan's Cultural Impact and ChristianityBest of Book:Byung-Chul Han: A Critical Introduction (Josh) The Hunters by James Salter (Dan) We Were Soldiers Once... and Young (Tony)Best of Series/TV Show:Ripley (Dan)Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey (Tony)Presumed Innocent (Josh)Best of Movie: A Complete Unknown (Dan) Dune 2 (Tony) We Live in Time (Josh) Dan's Year End Mixes:Rock - SpotifyRock - Apple MusicPop - SpotifyPop- Apple Music___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sat down with Micha Boyett, author of Blessed Are the Rest of Us and host of The Slow Way podcast, to explore the tension between millennial evangelical dreams and the realities of modern parenthood. We dove into how our generation's almost cinematic vision of "changing the world" manifested through movements like Invisible Children, Shane Claiborne's work, and TOMS Shoes – a fascinating confluence of entrepreneurship and world-saving ambitions. Micha shared her journey from being a 13-year-old Southern Baptist girl with limited ministry options to navigating suburban motherhood and raising a child with both Down syndrome and autism. We discussed how her experience has transformed her understanding of meaning, purpose, and what it means to live a life of impact. In the Patron-only second half, our conversation deepens into questions of disability, human value, and finding new meaning in the Beatitudes.Micha's Instagram | @michaboyettAce's Instagram | @acefaceismyfriendHighlights:04:54 Generational Expectations and Identity20:13 The Complexity of Disability in Society30:04 Anxiety and Parenting Challenges___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this timely conversation with returning guest Bonnie Kristian, we explore libertarianism and its evolving role in today's political landscape. Moving beyond the dated "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" cliché, we discuss how true libertarianism centers on skepticism of government power, while distinguishing it from a newer "folk libertarianism" emerging among younger Americans. Bonnie helps clarify how traditional libertarians focus specifically on limiting state power and coercion, whereas this new wave represents more of a cultural backlash against elite institutions. Through our discussion of government intervention, institutional trust, and policy, we explore the challenge of maintaining necessary social structures while remaining appropriately skeptical of institutional overreach. This conversation illuminates why different forms of libertarian thinking are resonating with many Americans today, while helping me better understand my own evolving thoughts on these complex issues.Highlights03:28 Understanding Libertarian Identity09:59 Election Results and Libertarian Impulses18:43 Therapy, Psychology, and Libertarianism25:18 Resource Distribution and the Veil of Ignorance35:30 Trust in Institutions vs. Individual ThinkersBonnie's Substack | Bonniekristian.substack.comPrevious YHP Episodes with Bonnie:Episode 21 | To Consider Inerrancy, Infallibility & Inspiration___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Turn your brains on for a fascinating conversation with scholar and author Tara Isabella Burton (Self Made, Strange Rites, Social Creature) about one of the core tensions in modern spirituality: does it matter more if a religious or spiritual practice works, or if it's true? Drawing from my experience as a therapist and Tara's background in theology, we explore how this plays out in everything from manifesting culture to ancient religious practices. I share my more pragmatic perspective, focused on what actually helps people in therapeutic settings, while Tara makes a compelling case for why we can't separate spiritual practices from their truth claims. We dig into the placebo effect, positive thinking, the limits of pure pragmatism, and whether spiritual practices might "work" precisely because they align with deeper truths about reality. It's a nuanced discussion that challenges both pure pragmatism and rigid orthodoxy, suggesting these seemingly opposing views might actually complement each other in surprising ways.Tara's New Book | Here in AvalonTara's Website | Taraisabellaburton.comHighlights12:10 Modern Spirituality and Individualism21:05 The Intersection of Faith and Truth30:12 Pragmatism in Therapy and Spirituality45:03 The Pursuit of Happiness and Material Success01:07:10 Exploring the Tension Between Ancient and Modern Wisdom___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Spencer Bland joins me to discuss his journey through various Christian denominations as a southern-based comedian who now takes a more open-ended approach to spirituality. We explore how he uses his religious background as source material for his comedy, including a hilarious story about a demon named Kyle, while maintaining a thoughtful and nuanced perspective that honors personal experience rather than broad critique. Our discussion brings up the parallels between comedy and therapy as tools for processing religious experiences and how humor can help acknowledge both the absurdity and significance of our past. Spencer's Instagram | @spencerspicyHighlights08:57 The Role of Humor in Religion17:49 The Intersection of Comedy and Religion31:02 From Pastor to Comedian54:54 Healing from Religious Trauma01:10:07 Reflections on Mission Trips and Cultural Christianity___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Around Christmas, we often rebroadcast a favorite episode. This year, we’re revisiting an episode about nurturant versus authoritarian religion, one of my personal favorites and a listener favorite too. It’s especially relevant now as many of us reflect on family dynamics over the holidays—parenting, upbringing, and how we think about God. The episode is both practical and theoretical, with insights for parents and anyone thinking about their own childhood.Original Show Notes:John Sanders joins me to drop one of the single most helpful distinctions I have ever heard in discussions of religion and culture. His identification and explanation of Nurturant and Authoritative approaches to religion, politics, parenting, and more has been kicking around my head daily for 6 weeks now. You should not skip this episode. And you should probably support indie publishers and buy his book Embracing Prodigals___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over breakfast in San Diego, I sat down with returning guest Kristen Tideman to analyze the 2024 presidential election through fresh eyes. Drawing from a 15-speaker mega-panel Kristen had just attended at the American Academy of Religion conference, we explored several alternative frameworks for understanding the election results. We discussed the concept of "vibes-based voting" using David French's curling analogy, which suggests voter sentiment (like a curling stone) can only be marginally influenced by campaigns. This led us to examine how feelings about the economy, nostalgia, and desire for change played a bigger role than explicit policy positions. We challenged the prevailing white Christian nationalism narrative by looking at immigrant voting patterns, and explored Trump's appeal as an "avatar of hope" for voters frustrated with cultural constraints. In the Patron-only second half, we delved into identity politics, anti-elite sentiment, and potential voting reforms. While more political coverage surely lies ahead, this conversation helped foster greater understanding of how we arrived at these results.Kristen's Company Website | tidycocreative.comHighlights04:20 The Impact of Politics on Daily Life09:42 What is “Vibes-Based Voting?”16:10 Beyond White Christian Nationalism25:14 Trump as an Avatar of Hope34:11 The Role of Identity in Politics___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, I speak with Kristian Smith, a fifth-generation Baptist preacher doing groundbreaking work at the intersection of Black church traditions and progressive theology. While many white religious deconstruction journeys (including my own) focus primarily on intellectual and theological questions, Kristian explains how Black church deconstruction involves much deeper communal and embodied dimensions. The Black church has historically served as more than just a religious institution—it's been the heart of Black community life and one of the few spaces where Black Americans could gather with true autonomy. Kristian offers a fascinating framework that separates spirituality from theology, arguing that while Black church spirituality (including its emotional expressiveness, music, and communal experience) has direct links to African spiritual traditions, its theology was largely borrowed from white evangelicalism. His work focuses on preserving these life-giving cultural and spiritual elements while developing new theological frameworks that better serve people's full humanity. Our conversation opened my eyes to the unique dynamics within Black Christian communities and the diverse ways people experience faith transitions, particularly when religious identity is deeply intertwined with cultural preservation and community belonging.Kristian's Instagram | @kristiansmith Kristian's Podcast | Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality Highlights09:05 The Emotional Weight of Leaving the Black Church18:06 The Disconnect Between Black and White Deconstruction Spaces30:00 Progressive Theology and the Black Church44:56 The Vision for a Progressive Black Church52:36 Navigating Leadership Dynamics in Multicultural Spaces___________________________________________Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKochFaith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankochEmail about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.comYHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.htmlJoin Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jon Ogden, co-founder of Uplift Kids, discusses the journey of spiritual parenting aimed at preventing religious trauma. He shares insights on combining internal guidance, modern science, and ancient wisdom to nurture children's spiritual growth. Jon emphasizes the importance of allowing kids to navigate their own spiritual paths rather than imposing adult understandings. The conversation also touches on post-secularism and the rising trends of youth feeling meaningless, urging families to create open discussions around spirituality.