Religion on the Mind

I sit down with John Hawthorne, retired Christian university sociology professor and author of The Fearless Christian University, to unpack the troubling martyrdom narrative emerging around Charlie Kirk's assassination.  We explore how Kirk is being weaponized as an icon by Christian nationalist ambassadors while everyday adherents struggle to make sense of senseless violence through familiar theological frameworks. John and I compare the Kirk situation to George Floyd—not as moral equivalents, but as examples of how viral footage of violent deaths gets absorbed into competing political narratives that say more about our fractured media ecosystem than the victims themselves.  We dig into why evangelicals are particularly susceptible to martyrdom narratives (suffering must have divine purpose), how the attention economy incentivizes crisis merchants on both left and right, and why the complete breakdown of shared civic discourse leaves people feeling they have no choice but to retreat into their tribal identities.  The conversation gets uncomfortably honest about how both sides manufacture heroes from tragedy, and why understanding the psychology of the adherents—our neighbors, family members, and clients—matters more than dissecting the cynical ambassadors orchestrating it all. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You Have Permission is now Religion on the Mind! Look for our updated artwork in your podcast feed and listen to this episode for more about what you can expect with the new name. In this episode, I sit down with Zoë Bernard, a writer and journalist who wrote a fascinating piece about Christianity's surprising resurgence in Silicon Valley. I share my own experience growing up evangelical in the Valley during the dot-com era—a time when religion, especially Christianity, felt distinctly uncool in tech circles. Zoë and I explore how dramatically things have shifted: where tech leaders once kept their faith quiet or embraced new atheism, figures like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk now publicly identify with Christianity, and startups in places like El Segundo are hosting Bible studies. We dig into what's driving this change—from the moral complexity of working in AI and defense tech, to the perceived failures of "wokeism" as a secular replacement for religion, to the hollow feeling many successful tech workers experience despite their wealth.  I push back on some of the tensions I see between Silicon Valley's uber-capitalism and Jesus's actual economic teachings, while Zoë offers insights from her time embedded with young Christian entrepreneurs who are reshaping tech culture.  We close by considering how AI might fundamentally alter spirituality itself—a conversation we'll definitely need to continue. Zoe's Website | Zoe-bernard.com Zoe's Article | https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/2025/4/god-complex ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a new name, new art… and the rest is pretty much the same content you know and love on the overlap of psychology, religion and spirituality. My teammates Josh Gilbert and Joy Vetterlein join me for a quick chat about our rebrand of this podcast (It’s a glow-up, but Dan wants everyone to know those are Joy’s words and not his words). We talk about why the change now, what it represents in the context of the culture at large and share about upcoming series and episodes in the works. Listen in and keep an eye out for new artwork in your podcast feed! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: dan@religiononthemind.com Religion on the Mind Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by Nick Luevano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Friend of the pod Tripp Fuller joins me in full Dodgers gear (the audacity!) to discuss why the doctrine of original sin desperately needs a comeback—not the toxic version that told us we couldn't trust our own emotions or experiences, but a robust theological framework that actually explains the mess we're living in. We unpack how the concept of original sin operates on three interconnected levels: individual, communal, and structural. We tear apart Augustine's outdated biology while rescuing his psychological insights, trace the snowball effect of violence from Cain's first murder through the Tower of Babel, and discover why progressive Christians who rail against systemic injustice are actually doing theology whether they realize it or not.  Along the way, we somehow manage to argue about Sam Harris, the military-industrial complex, global capitalism, and whether America is an evil empire or just another flawed superpower trying not to blow up the world.  If you've ever wondered why humans keep doing terrible things despite our best intentions, or why your evangelical upbringing left you allergic to the very doctrine that might actually help you understand structural oppression, this conversation is for you. Come to Theology Beer Camp 2025 Listen to Homebrewed Christianity ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Attention YHP Listeners: Starting in October, the podcast You Have Permission will change its name to Religion on the Mind. This rebrand will come with new artwork and focus more broadly on the overlap of Psychology, Religion & Spirituality. We look forward to telling you more in the coming days… stay tuned! I sit down with previous guest Matt Naylor from the Milkless podcast to explore a disturbing pattern he discovered through a simple Google experiment: searching for public figures known for embracing violence and cruelty, then adding "father" to see what emerges. From Elon Musk to Joe Rogan to JD Vance, the batting average for abuse, abandonment, and alcoholism is striking.  We dig into the neuroscience behind early childhood attachment, examining how those first six months of life literally wire our brains for how we perceive safety in the world. Matt shares research on rat mothers who groom their babies differently and how those early experiences shape everything from stress response to longevity—findings that translate directly to human development. We explore the unique roles fathers play in transmitting worldview and values, diving into attachment research that shows father-child relationships are particularly crucial for managing externalizing behaviors like aggression and rule-breaking.  The conversation takes a personal turn as Matt reflects on his own family history and his determination to raise daughters who see the world as an enchanted place full of wonder rather than a threatening landscape requiring constant vigilance. The episode weaves together cutting-edge brain science, attachment theory, and deeply personal reflection on what it means to be a father in an increasingly polarized world. Take It Offline Question: What things do you find that you feel in your body about the world that don't line up with the way you wish you felt about the world? Milkless Podcast Child-father attachment and behavior problems (NIH) Christian Century interview with Vern Bengston about fathers and religious transmission to children ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s Top of Mind segment, I address the Charlie Kirk assassination through cognitive distortions, calling out the all-or-nothing thinking that's turning him into either a blessed martyr or democracy's destroyer when the reality is more nuanced. I also push back against the dangerous idea that speech equals violence, pointing out that Kirk's murder serves as a stark reminder that actual bullets—not words—constitute real violence. For this week’s main episode, I’m going solo. I start by sharing how my own faith deconstruction included grappling with evolution. From questioning young earth creationism to eventually embracing evolutionary theory by my late twenties, and how evolution informs my therapeutic practice. Then, I go into how psychology has fully embraced evolutionary explanations across five key areas:  attachment theory (which appears across species and helped our ancestors survive through bonding),  shame (as an evolved social conscience that keeps us aligned with group norms),  sexual jealousy (as mate-guarding behavior found throughout the animal kingdom),  anxiety (as an overactive alarm system that kept our ancestors alive through hypervigilance), and  depression (as either energy conservation during adverse conditions or analytical rumination for solving complex problems.)  These evolutionary frameworks help reduce client shame by showing that their struggles aren't personal defects but rather ancient survival systems that are now mismatched to our modern world. In the Patreon-only portion, I dive deeper into attachment research with macaques, the neuroscience of shame and anxiety across species, mate-guarding behaviors from chimpanzees to humans, and two competing theories of depression—the hibernation model and analytical rumination hypothesis. Episodes Mentioned: Episode with Adrian Wyard | To Accept Theistic Evolution (#2) To Trust Science (#28) Evolution Myths & Long Lifespans in Genesis (#36) Who’s Afraid of Evolutionary Psychology? (#47) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Zahl, writer and director of Mockingbird Ministries, critiques self-optimization culture and its dehumanizing effects. He argues that our obsession with efficiency overlooks the profound complexity of life. The conversation dives into how wellness industries exploit our discontent and the difference between optimization and meaningful living. Zahl reflects on Jesus' inefficiency and how loneliness shapes our identities. They also connect cultural references, emphasizing that true growth flourishes through community rather than relentless self-improvement.

Delve into the profound impact of authoritarian parenting and its legacy on adult relationships. Explore how teachings from a controversial evangelical figure contributed to trauma and shame cycles that persist today. Discover the importance of recognizing dysfunctional attachment styles and the necessity for nurturing discipline over rigid obedience. The conversation highlights the journey of healing from spiritual abuse, navigates the nuanced dynamics of guilt and shame, and empowers listeners to redefine their personal values and relationships.

He’s out from behind the green curtain! In this episode, my guest is none other than my producer and audio/editor wizard, Josh Gilbert. Josh spends about 23 hours per week listening to conversations on religion, psychology, and deconstruction. He joins me to tell how this work has fundamentally changed his worldview and sense of self. For Josh, this immersive listening experience has made it nearly impossible for him to be surprised by new ideas and has pushed him towards comedy and entertainment for palette cleansing. He tells the story of attending both Black Lives Matter protests and police ride-alongs, and shares how listening has transformed his capacity for empathy and given him the ability to see multiple perspectives. We dive into the psychology of repetition, the nature of intellectual humility, and how Josh's journey through religious scrupulosity and OCD diagnosis has intersected with his unique vantage point as someone who absorbs thousands of hours of other people's spiritual and psychological processing—without being able to contribute his own voice to the conversation. In the Patron-only portion, we wrestle with the deeper questions of religious belief—Josh arguing that we inevitably construct our beliefs from our experiences rather than discovering objective truth, while I explore whether there's a defensible middle path where following Jesus's teachings remains worthwhile even if I'm entirely wrong about the metaphysical claims of Christianity. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s episode of You Have Permission, I sit down with Dr. Richard B. Miller, Professor Emeritus from the University of Chicago Divinity School, to tackle his blunt question (and the title of his book): Why Study Religion?  What starts as a defense against critics like Sam Harris—who'd rather we just stick to the "straight dope" of science—quickly spirals into something much more provocative: religion as the ultimate training ground for navigating our hypermediated, pluralistic world where we're drowning in conflicting authorities and information overload. Miller argues that religious studies isn't just academic navel-gazing but a crucial skill-building exercise in what he calls "post-critical reasoning," teaching us to hold multiple worldviews in tension without falling into either fundamentalist certainty or relativistic paralysis.  We discuss why the secularization hypothesis got it wrong, how contemplative traditions across religions offer surprising resources for the ecological crisis, and why understanding the religious "wackadoodles" (my term, not his) might be the key to actually changing minds rather than just preaching to the choir.  By the end, I'm wrestling with my own biases about expanding this podcast beyond Christianity, and you'll be questioning whether your discomfort with religion says more about the world's problems or your own assumptions about how to solve them. Richard's Book | Why Religion Matters? ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices