You Have Permission

My friend James Wightman joins me to tell me about What Would Jesus Sell? a documentary he's been working on for eight years about the Christian music industry.  We get into how Christian music evolved from the genuine DIY spirit of the 1970s Jesus Movement into today's sanitized, focus-grouped machine that prioritizes “Becky” (the industry's target demographic of exhausted soccer moms) over artistic integrity. James reveals the open secrets everyone in green rooms and tour buses has whispered about for years, explains why the incentive structures actually punish authenticity while rewarding conformity, and shares how his own journey led him to realize that both artists and consumers are trapped in an exploitative system that uses spiritual language to sell us baby food when we're starving for a real meal. He also shares some insider perspective on the recent allegations against Michael Tait. It's a conversation about art, faith, commerce, and what happens when you try to package the sacred for mass consumption. James on Instagram | @James.final.mp4 Walk Me Through Jesus Movement Music '67-'79 (Part 1) ⁠Walk Me Through Jesus Movement Music '67-'79 (Part 2) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sarah Lane Ritchie, an academic specializing in spiritual abuse research, returns for an engaging discussion. She kicks off with her surprising personal experience of numerous attempted exorcisms. The conversation critiques the political fearmongering in 'Shiny Happy People,' especially concerning Ron Luce. Sarah makes a compelling case arguing that the Honor Academy fits the cult criteria, while exploring the duality of intense religious experiences that create both meaning and trauma. Their witty banter also offers insights into narrative psychology and its implications.

Top of Mind:  I start this episode by addressing the recent report from Baptist News Global regarding former guest Dr. Laura E. Anderson, a well-known therapist and coach in the religious trauma world, detailing ethical board sanctioning and other complaints by her associates. Main Interview (Adam joins at 6:45): Licensed therapist and Place We Find Ourselves podcast host Adam Young joins me to explore how our childhood stories quite literally shape our brains—and why telling those stories accurately matters more than we might think. We dig into Adam's narrative and body-focused therapeutic approach, which complements my own cognitive work by emphasizing how our neural networks wire together through early relational experiences with primary caregivers. We discuss why truth-telling orients us with reality in ways that reduce shame and self-contempt, explore the neuroscience behind why we can't simply suppress difficult emotions (spoiler: your amygdala has other plans), and examine how attachment patterns from ages 2-3 continue influencing our adult relationships through fight-flight-freeze responses.  Adam introduces the concept of "blessing our younger selves" as distinct from the popular notion of "reparenting," drawing on Internal Family Systems theory to help us understand the different parts within us that need attention.  Take it Offline:  Take this conversation beyond the solo podcast experience into real community with friends and ask each other: "Where do you find yourself most laboring under accusation?" He explains that all of us live with self-contempt and feel accusation about various aspects of our lives throughout our days — our parenting, our relationships, our habits, our compulsions, who we are and how we show up in the world. This vulnerable but powerful question can help bring kindness into areas that are exhausting and are often suffered in silence and alone.  Adam's Website | ⁠Adamyoungcounseling.com⁠ Adam's Book | ⁠Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything⁠ Related Episodes: Episode #197 - "Un-Shaming Each Part of Ourselves" with Molly LaCroixEpisode #333 - "The Science of Social Connection" with Julia Hotz Episode #337 - "The 'Middle Path' in Politics & Purity Culture" with Dr. Camden Morgante ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode, I'm diving back into the deep end with theologian and philosopher of science Sarah Lane Ritchie for part two of our response to the Shiny Happy People docuseries, focusing on episode two's unflinching look at Teen Mania's Honor Academy. We start by exploring one of the most psychologically complex aspects of growing up in end-times evangelical culture: the expectation that your life might be cut short—whether through martyrdom, the rapture, or other apocalyptic events. Sarah and I unpack how this shaped our teenage years differently, with her wrestling with anxiety about "making the cut" for the rapture while I was more concerned about missing out on earthly experiences before Jesus returned. We examine how this worldview creates two distinct buckets of spiritual trauma, and I introduce what I call "the jihad test"—a thought experiment about how we'd want someone to escape coercive religious indoctrination if they were born into a jihadist group, and why those same critical thinking tools should be available to all young people in high-demand religious environments. In the Patreon portion, we dig deeper into the militaristic aspects of Honor Academy, the psychology of high-demand religious groups, listener feedback about Bible smuggling and mission trip costs, and the complex relationship between traditional masculinity and evangelical theology. ⁠Watch Shiny Happy People Season 2⁠ Sarah's Website | ⁠⁠Sarahlaneritchie.net⁠⁠ Patreon Only Episode : ⁠Martyrdom Expectations YHP Episodes on Season 1: ⁠Shiny Happy People: Did Bill Gothard Create Pedophiles? (#198)⁠ ⁠Shiny Happy People: Are Children Born Evil? (#200)⁠ ⁠Shiny Happy People: Was Bill Gothard A Cult Leader? (#202)⁠ ⁠Is "Shiny Happy People" Anti-Religion? (#204)⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm joined again by my dear friend Sarah Lane Ritchie, theologian and scholar of science and religion, for the first of three episodes responding to the new season of Amazon's Shiny Happy People docuseries. This season shifts focus from the Duggar family to Teen Mania—arguably the biggest religious youth phenomenon of the late 20th century with a three-tier pipeline: Acquire the Fire stadium events that functioned like teenage Billy Graham crusades, Global Expeditions mission trips where kids raised thousands to evangelize abroad, and the Honor Academy internship program that took on cult-like characteristics.  Sarah shares her profound personal journey beginning at age 13 at the pivotal "Day One" event with 70,000 attendees at the Pontiac Silverdome just days after Columbine, leading to transformative month-long mission trips to Ghana and Bolivia that shaped her entire academic career.  We examine the sophisticated psychological mechanisms at play—from Durkheimian collective effervescence to high-stakes eternal damnation theology that made extreme actions feel necessary, the integration of Josh Harris's purity culture teachings that redirected teenage sexuality toward spiritual eroticism, and how the apocalyptic urgency created a manufactured crisis that made everything else seem trivial.  This episode sets the stage for deeper dives into Global Expeditions and the troubling Honor Academy cult dynamics in our upcoming conversations, illuminating how spiritual technology shapes young lives in ways that are simultaneously transformative and potentially harmful. Watch Shiny Happy People Season 2 Sarah's Website | ⁠Sarahlaneritchie.net⁠ YHP Episodes on Season 1: Shiny Happy People: Did Bill Gothard Create Pedophiles? (#198) Shiny Happy People: Are Children Born Evil? (#200) Shiny Happy People: Was Bill Gothard A Cult Leader? (#202) Is "Shiny Happy People" Anti-Religion? (#204) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dan kicks off the episode with a new segment, Top of Mind, focused this week on former President Obama’s entry into the discourse around struggles currently faced by men and boys in the US and elsewhere: education, mental health, employment, suicide, overdoses, and identity concerns. He highlights the overlap between main points made by Obama and YHP topics, as well as gender discrepancies in therapy utilization. Richard Reeves Substack Post⁠ ⁠Obama Podcast Appearance⁠ For the main episode, I sit down with Dr. Camden Morgante, licensed psychologist and author of Recovering from Purity Culture, to explore the revolutionary concept of dialectical thinking—finding the "both/and" instead of "either/or"—as an alternative to the black-and-white thinking that dominates evangelical culture, politics, and even purity culture recovery movements. We dive into practical applications like developing a "values-congruent sexual ethic" that transcends both shame-based purity culture and consent-only frameworks, discuss the real costs of walking the middle path in our polarized world (canceled interviews, lost relationships, professional challenges), and explore how to parent for critical thinking rather than ideological conformity. This conversation offers essential insights for anyone wrestling with post-evangelical identity, seeking alternatives to political polarization, or curious about how therapeutic wisdom can inform spiritual and ethical development in an age that punishes nuance. Dr. Camden's Website Dr. Camden's Book Dr. Camden on Instagram ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special "after hours" episode, I dive deep with my friend Chase Willett into the surprising abundance of religious and spiritual themes running through the New York Times' list of the 100 greatest films of the 21st century. We explore how our relationship with spiritually-charged cinema has transformed over the years—from Chase's evangelical need to connect every movie back to Paul's letters, to my own journey of embracing ambiguity and transcendent moments that don't require tidy theological conclusions. I share one of the most formative spiritual experiences of my life, involving a chance encounter in Stockholm and Richard Linklater's Boyhood, that reshaped how I understand human dignity and God's perspective. We also discuss spiritual technologies, the nature of transcendent experiences, and begin examining the first category of our 23-film analysis: "Mythic, Fairy Tale and Fantasy Spiritual Allegories," setting up what promises to be a rich exploration of how cinema grapples with questions of meaning and faith. In the patron-only second half, we dive deeper into The Lord of the Rings and other films in this category, commit to watching The Tree of Life and Grizzly Man before our next conversation, and hint at how our discussion may inevitably touch on contemporary geopolitical events. NY Times | 100 Best Movies of the 21st Century Episode #307 | Disability, the Beatitudes & “Changing the World” Religious/spiritual movies from the NYT list in no particular order: Interstellar Lord of the Rings: Fellowship Past Lives The Tree of Life O Brother, Where Art Thou? Spotlight The Master Lady Bird A Serious Man A Prophet Arrival Spirited Away No Country for Old Men Children of Men There Will Be Blood Melancholia Pan’s Labyrinth Mulholland Drive Mad Max: Fury Road Grizzly Man Yi Yi Her Zone of Interest ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A spiritual sequel of sorts to episode #330 on youth pastors, I’m joined by Casey and Sam from the Growing Up Christian Podcast to explore their experiences as ex-vangelicals and the evolution of their faith and show. They discuss the origins of their podcast, the role of humor in navigating serious topics, and the impact of community on their personal beliefs. The conversation delves into the complexities of identity, the challenges faced by the “faith deconstruction” community, and the importance of perspective in understanding their past. Growing Up Christian Podcast ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Generation Gap Culture Hour, where I sit down with Josh Gilbert and Tony Jones to peel back the layers of personal stories, health struggles, and shifting cultural landscapes through a generational and developmental lens. In today’s episode, we kick things off with a candid discussion about living with Lyme disease (sorry Tony). From there, we trade work-related stories about hustle culture, what work-life balance actually means today, what “baby blue collar” work looks like, and how different age groups think about job loyalty and purpose. Naturally, we can’t help but wander into the messiness of modern politics — exploring how our personal lives and political identities intertwine, and why nuance and community support feel more crucial than ever. In the patron-only second half of the episode, starting with an announcement from Josh’s personal life, we go even deeper: discussing the fine line between personal ambition and collective responsibility, the importance of honest conversations in bridging generational divides, and how we can show up for each other in a world that often feels more polarized by the day. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I chat with journalist Julia Hotz about her book The Connection Cure: The Prescriptive Power of Movement, Nature, Art, Service, and Belonging. Julia introduces me to the fascinating world of "social prescribing," where healthcare providers actually prescribe specific social activities (like circus classes, if you're into that sort of thing) rather than just pills or therapy sessions.  We dive into why intrinsic motivation makes all the difference — whether you're there because you genuinely want to be or because someone's making you show up — and how religious spaces naturally deliver many of the connection benefits we're all seeking. The conversation gets particularly interesting when we discuss my social anxiety therapy groups, where I've witnessed firsthand how group therapy can actually outperform individual therapy for certain conditions (and costs a fraction of the price, which should probably be shouted from the rooftops). We explore how 80% of our health outcomes are determined by environmental factors rather than clinical care alone. By the end, we map out practical ways anyone can create their own social prescriptions — whether it's hitting nature for attention restoration, moving your body for mood boosts, or finding your tribe through shared interests and values. Julia's Book | The Connection Cure: The Prescriptive Power of Movement, Nature, Art, Service, and Belonging Julia on Instagram | @Hotzthoughts ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices