
The Way Out Is In
This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion.
Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice.
"The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change.
The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.
Latest episodes

Sep 14, 2023 • 2h 3min
Mindful Activism: From Anxiety to Agency (Episode #57)
Climate activist Clover Hogan joins the hosts to discuss activism in times of polycrisis, empowering young activists, and turning despair into fuel for change. They explore the emotional journey of a young activist, balancing self-care with urgent activism, practicing mindfulness, and cultivating love and wisdom at Plum Village. Hogan shares her journey from burnout to mindful activism, navigating self-imposed pressures, and recognizing dedication within Force of Nature. They also discuss youth involvement, maintaining mindfulness practices post-retreat, engaging with power and emotions in activism, and promoting podcast subscriptions.

Aug 24, 2023 • 1h 36min
Caring for Children, Caring for the Child Inside (Episode #56)
Welcome to episode 56 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino talk about the annual family retreats at Plum Village (the one time when families visit with their children): how they came about, and how the dharma can touch the lives of children and teenagers. The presenters share their unique experiences of these retreats, and stories of transformation involving parents and children, including ones featuring Thich Nhat Hanh and his deep teachings and special understanding of the youngest practitioners. Going deeper, the conversation delves into ways to remain compassionate and continue to listen deeply when dealing with a child; collective energy and co-creating an environment for children; the insight of nondiscrimination; the art of slowing down and being present for your children; authority and separation; the fourteen mindfulness trainings; and more.
Plus, why do people bring their families to a Zen monastery in the south of France? Are mindful practitioners better parents?Brother Phap Huu further shares how the retreats are run, some popular mindfulness practices, and how monastics work with different age groups. Jo talks about generational pain and the importance of deepening our relationship with our children, at any age.The episode ends with ‘Practicing with the Five-Year-old in Me and in My Parents’, a recording of a meditation guided by Thich Nhat Hanh.
Thank you for listening. Enjoy!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resources
Old Path White Cloudshttps://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds-walking-in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha/
The Organic Happy Farmhttps://plumvillage.org/community/happy-farm
‘The Pebble Meditation’https://plumvillage.org/articles/news/the-pebble-meditation
Looking Deeply: ‘Healing the Inner Child’https://plumvillage.org/articles/healing-the-inner-child
‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings
The Bodhisattva vowhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow
Mahāyānahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana‘Practicing with the Five-Year-Old Child in Me and in My Parents’https://web.plumvillage.app/item/vToqvVSlq6hvFCjp3QUy
‘Practicing with the Child in Me (Guided Meditation)’https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG8OmTzmNW8
The Way Out Is In: ‘Healing Our Inner Child: Pathways to Embrace Our Suffering (Episode #10)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/healing-our-inner-child-pathways-to-embrace-our-suffering
Quotes
“Now that I reflect on my childhood, what were the gems in my upbringing? One that stands out very clearly is when my parents were in Plum Village, because somehow Plum Village energy and the creation of the space was developed together; everybody co-created the retreat and you got to be yourself. We weren’t competing to see who was more mindful, or who was going to become the Buddha first. Then everybody slowly un-layered all of the masks they were wearing, as well as starting to embrace and accept themselves. And that presence has a very deep impact on a child.”
“It does take a community to help a child grow.”
“When the Buddha became enlightened, the first thing he did was to create a community. And I would even say that the Buddha’s journey goes all the way back to the support of children.”
“Every action that Thay produced through body, speech, and mind was a transmission.”
“The baby may not understand the words, but they absorb the collective energy.”
“Be mindful of your thoughts. Be mindful of your speech. Be mindful of your presence, because it gives off an invisible transmission, just like radio signals that one can receive.”
“What is the meaning of life? It is to be present enough that we can love, that we can see our interconnectedness with all those around us. Your parents, your brother, your sister: even though, sometimes, they make you angry, deep down inside, you do love them. And maybe our whole life journey is not to learn about that, but to live the message of love.”
“Moments of care, moments for being with others, are also time for oneself. And when you shift that narrative, your energy changes; suddenly, your love becomes boundless. You are channeling and practicing non-self and you’re also practicing selflessness. And that is one of the deepest wisdoms of Buddhism.”
“I’m holding this pebble, and if it represents a good deed and I throw it in the pond, where I know it will create ripples, then it seems that my good deeds will have a similar impact. So it is important to cultivate good deeds.”
“Children are a wonderful bell of mindfulness, because they press all of our buttons. Because they often break the rules in a way that adults don’t with each other. They sometimes speak truths that are uncomfortable and that we don’t want to hear.”
“Unless something is healed, it gets passed on, because the next child will witness that pain and soak it up. They either think it’s normal behavior, or they try to swallow it to take it away from their parents, because they want their parents to be happy. That’s their key wish: for their parents to be happy, not for themselves to be happy. When people recognize that their own healing also heals the past, that’s a great motivator; they’re actually healing the wound that was felt in their parents, their grandparents, or their great-grandparents. And then they’re changing the future, especially for their own children.”
“The heart of mindfulness is being in the present moment.”
“We heal the past in the present moment.”

Aug 3, 2023 • 1h 30min
Spiritual Journey: No Quick Fixes (Episode #55)
Welcome to episode 55 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino discuss spiritual journeys, why they take a lifetime, and why there are no quick fixes on the spiritual path. But how does this fit into busy lives and the instant answers and results we have become accustomed to? They also touch upon the difficulties of maintaining the practice, the reason there are no certifications for mindfulness, and why a retreat is not enough. And what type of happiness do you most want to generate in this life?
Brother Phap Huu shares insights from both Buddhist teachings and recent Plum Village retreats where he interacted with families and teenagers – beginners on the spiritual path – and suggests essential practical steps for integrating the practice of mindfulness into busy schedules.The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.
Thank you for listening.Enjoy!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘Engaged Buddhism: Applying the Teachings in Our Present Moment (Episode #9)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/engaged-buddhism-applying-the-teachings-in-our-present-moment
The Way Out Is In: ‘Regeneration and Musical Inspiration: The North American Tour (Episode #53)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/regeneration-and-musical-inspiration-the-north-american-tour-episode-53
‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village
‘The Pebble Meditation’https://plumvillage.org/articles/news/the-pebble-meditation
Hollyhockhttps://hollyhock.ca/
The Bodhisattva vowhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow
Quotes
“If Buddhism is not engaged, it is not Buddhism.”
“Mindfulness is always mindfulness, first of all, of suffering. That’s why we practice. Because, to understand life, there always has to be an object for us to reflect on.”“Thay always says that walking meditation is not about arriving at a destination, but to arrive in the ultimate, which is the freedom of the now.”
“Suffering, as a noble truth, teaches us the values of life and allows us to know what peace is. If you only live in peace, you don’t have gratitude for the wonderful conditions that you have. But if we meet suffering, it reminds us of the life that we’ve experienced and the life that we want to create together.”
“When you look at the great arc of history, the idea of a quick fix falls apart very quickly. It seems ridiculous. A quick fix to what? To the millions of years of lives that have come before, which are in us?”
“The Buddha said happiness and suffering are two truths that always go together. As long as there’s that thick mud, there can be some flowers there.”
“What is the world made out of? Each and every one of us. What is the collective consciousness made out of? Each and every one of us. What is the collective habit made out of? Each and every one of us.”

Jul 1, 2023 • 1h 51min
Space, Time, and The Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)
Welcome to episode 54 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This week, we bring you a very special joint episode of The Way Out Is In and fellow podcast Outrage + Optimism, which explores the stories behind climate change headlines. From the peace and tranquility of the International Plum Village Community of Engaged Buddhism, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino speak with Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac.
Christiana Figueres, a student of Thich Nhat Hanh, was one of the architects of the Paris Climate Agreement in 2015, and is a valued member of the Plum Village Sangha. Executive Secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) from 2010 to 2016, she is also the co-founder of Global Optimism, co-host of Outrage + Optimism, and co-author of the bestselling The Future We Choose: Surviving the Climate Crisis.
Tom Rivett-Carnac is a political strategist, author, and podcaster who has spent more than 20 years working to address the climate and ecological crises. He is also a Founding Partner of Global Optimism, co-host of the podcast Outrage + Optimism, and co-author of The Future We Choose.
Listeners of both podcasts are invited to join an intimate and deep conversation which covers the spiritual elements missing from the climate movement; moving beyond linear timelines into exponential transformation; how to develop the power within ourselves to drive change; non-attachment to views; listening without judgment; what happens when we all stop; and much more. Plus, what is spiritual power and how can it support us?
So bring your tea to the table and let the radical collaboration begin.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resourcesChristiana Figuereshttp://christianafigueres.com/#/
Tom Rivett-Carnachttps://www.globaloptimism.com/tom-rivett-carnac The Art of Powerhttps://www.parallax.org/product/art-of-power/
Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh
The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Villagehttps://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village
The B Teamhttps://bteam.org/
The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)https://unfccc.int/Zen and the Art of Saving the Planethttps://www.harpercollins.com/products/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet-thich-nhat-hanh
Music for Difficult Times: Awakening the Heart of Compassion by Brother Phap Linhhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarhXTDs8Z4
The Way Out Is In: ‘Being the Change We Want to See in the World: A Conversation with Christiana Figueres (Episode #21)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/being-the-change-we-want-to-see-in-the-world-a-conversation-with-christiana-figueres-episode-21
The Way Out Is In: ‘Benefitting from a Spiritual Practice: In Conversation with Tom Rivett-Carnac (Episode #37)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/benefitting-from-a-spiritual-practice-in-conversation-with-tom-rivett-carnac-episode-37
The Way Out Is In: ‘Bringing the Ultimate Dimension Down to Earth (Episode #40)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/bringing-the-ultimate-dimension-down-to-earth-episode-40
Aeschylushttps://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Aeschylus
Quotes
“Recognizing our own presence is already a power.”
“The linearity of time is something that those of us who work on climate change live with on a daily basis. We have an alarm clock that is with us all the time because we have very clear timelines. We know that by 2100, we absolutely must have guaranteed that we do not go over 1.5 degrees [Celsius]. We know that in order to get there, we have to be at net zero by 2050. We know that in order to get to net zero by 2050, we have to be at one half of global emissions by 2030. And we know that to be at half emissions by 2030, we have to reduce yearly by 7%. So we take time and we pull it into our current experience and we derive mathematically, we derive then the implications of time upon our work. And so it is not surprising that those of us who work on climate change have a huge anxiety about time.”
“Time and space, we have to be attentive and mindful of them, but we can also be free from them, because this present moment that we’re living deeply is the seed that we need to plant for the future.”
“Some of our transformation and actions of today, we may not see them until two, three, or five generations later – but nothing is lost. And that is the insight. And I believe it’s the truth of karma. The word karma, for us, is not what you hear in music: ‘What comes around, goes around,’ ‘Do better’… Yes, do better, but karma is much more profound than that. The actions of today, we don’t see them. Some of it, we will experience right away; we experience the transformation right away. But there are deeper transformations that need time for ripening.”
“Love has no frontier, it goes on forever.”
“There’s no way to find common ground without respecting and understanding the differences, because then you don’t see what’s common.”
“You can be a different person in how you show up.”
“When you are able to live in the present moment, the right action emerges out of that space, out of that ultimate dimension that you are able to inhabit. If you can stay there and can trust that the best way to prepare for the future is to be in the present moment when it comes – rather than spend all of your time in your head trying to plan it out and think it through, which I think a lot of people get stuck in. Then, when that moment comes, what’s needed is there.”
“Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God” – Aeschylus.

Jun 15, 2023 • 1h 39min
Regeneration and Musical Inspiration: The North American Tour (Episode #53)
Welcome to episode 53 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino talk about what they learned and experienced on the recent Plum Village North American Tour, which consisted of retreats (including one for climate leaders and activists) and Plum Village’s first international music tour.
The two presenters reflect on how the Buddhist teachings and lessons offered by this series of public events can help people create a healthier culture of service, and deal with both personal suffering and the collective suffering of climate destruction, biodiversity loss, and social injustice. Also, what is fierce compassion and how can we practice with it?
Brother Phap Huu further shares on “opening new Dharma doors”, the adaptation of old teachings to new cultures; the importance of music in engaged Buddhism and why incorporating the flavors of contemporary music matters; Thay as peace activist and poet; the message of the song ‘Little Star’ (which you get to listen to!); dealing with the energy of anger; deep connection; and more. And what did Thay say when Brother Phap Huu rapped at a Plum Village festivity?
Jo also shares about innovation in the Plum Village tradition; resilience and guilt in the climate movement; novel teachings and itineraries for retreats; the deep spiritual dimension of climate work; radical compassion; forgiveness and transforming the system; nondiscrimination around suffering; and more.
Thank you for listening. Enjoy!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resourcesHollyhockhttps://hollyhock.ca/
‘Unborn and Indestructible (song)’https://plumvillage.org/library/songs/unborn-indestructible/
‘Plum Village Announces North American Fundraising Concert Tour with Hip-Hop Artist Born I’https://www.lionsroar.com/plum-village-announces-north-american-fundraising-concert-tour/
Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong/
Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh/
Sister Trai Nghiemhttps://www.parallax.org/authors/sister-trai-nghiem-2/Christiana Figuereshttp://christianafigueres.com/#/
Sister True Dedication https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem/
Sister Lang Nghiemhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem
Tupachttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur
Lupe Fiascohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupe_Fiasco
Djembe drumshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjembeThe Way Out Is In: ‘Engaged Buddhism: Applying the Teachings in Our Present Moment (Episode #9)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/engaged-buddhism-applying-the-teachings-in-our-present-moment
Namo’valokiteshvaraya Chanthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZkjX_c4hm4
‘Little Star’ (song video with lyrics)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3uu_Ru5U1c
Quotes
“The work of a monastic is service and our service is sowing seeds of awakening, or sowing seeds of mindfulness in today’s language.”
“One of my experiences of Plum Village is that there’s a willingness to always innovate. While the core teachings remain present and are at the heart of everything, Thich Nhat Hanh talks about opening new Dharma doors. So there are always new ways, depending on cultural or technological changes, of reaching new audiences with the teachings.”
“Thich Nhat Hanh was an environmental leader and activist for more than 50 years, and he felt deeply around the need to help the environment, to collapse the separation between us and the environment, and the importance of dealing with our suffering so that we can deal with big issues like climate change and social inequality.”
“Spirituality doesn’t mean becoming a Buddhist or following a religion; spirituality is the capacity of awakening which is in everyone: learning to stop our thoughts, our running, and connect to our suffering, taking care of it, transforming. That is spirituality.”
“The way out is interbeing.”
“Mindfulness is a path of understanding and transformation to cultivate nonviolence, peace, awakening, and love.”
“Love is regeneration.”
“With our thoughts, we create the world.”
“Fierce compassion is a deep, deep strength that not only can help change the world, but sustain that change.”
“Anger is not the solution. Anger is an energy to recognize, to practice with; guide it through walking meditation, guide it through being with nature. Because once you realize that your energy, your emotions, are also impermanence, you know that if it goes up, it will have to come down and you can come back to the situation with a different energy. And if you have practiced for a long time, you can channel your anger right away. You make sure that your anger is not the foundation of your words, your mind, and your actions.”
“In Buddhism, the deepest insight of practice is to break free from all views: to touch interbeing so that we can be free and see the truth behind all manifestations, the forms that we meet, whether it is a person, whether it is their energy… Are we meeting just their anger, or can we see beyond their anger and still have compassion and help them out of their suffering?”
“There are always new ways of seeing the world, and if you’re not adapting to that, then the teachings don’t become relevant.”
“Family is not just genetic blood; family is shared aspiration, shared understanding, shared support that we offer for one another, and seeing each other as human beings.”
“Often people chat to hide away from things, so when they’re given silence, it allows other things to emerge.”
“It’s not about forgiving the system, it’s about understanding the system. We can’t forgive a system, but once we understand it, we can transform it. It’s not about forgiving all the time.”“The present moment is your canvas and your mindfulness, and your body, speech, and mind is the paintbrush that you paint with.”

Jun 1, 2023 • 1h 34min
Listeners’ Questions: Responding from the Heart (Episode #52)
Welcome to episode 52 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This time, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino are joined again by frequent podcast guest Sister True Dedication (Sister Hien Nghiem). Together, they respond to further questions from listeners in this second part of our first question and answer session of 2023.We hope that their answers will show how the teachings can help people who are in distress or are dealing with critical issues – but also simply how to find more joy in our lives.
This installment’s questions and answers cover topics ranging from how to create a practice with no sangha to how to develop a spiritual practice in busy, stressful lives; how to find meaningful communities and connections and become aware of our own story and that of our ancestors; understanding the complexity of ancestry and transmitted wisdom; belonging and home; intention and aspiration; the quality of presence; how to engage mindfully in a policing role; the difference between mindfulness and concentration; finding the sweetness of joy in life and making simple things your joy – and much more. To give a flavor of Plum Village Q and A sessions, the two monastics share memories including a story about Thay singing a song during a Q and A session for children.
And what question do you think people should be asking? Or don’t ask enough?There’s an answer to this one, too.Thank you for listening, and for sharing your deep questions!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resourcesThe Way Out Is In: ‘Listeners’ Questions: Responding from the Heart (Episode #51)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/listeners-questions-responding-from-the-heart-episode-51/Sister True Dedication https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem/
Touching the Earthhttps://plumvillage.org/books/touching-the-earth/
The European Institute of Applied Buddhism (EIAB)https://plumvillage.org/practice-centre/eiab/
Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Skandhas of Grasping and Non-Self’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-skandhas-of-grasping-and-non-self%E2%80%8B-dharma-talk-by-br-phap-lai-2018-06-08/
Find a local grouphttps://plumvillage.org/community/international-sangha-directory/
Local communities (sanghas)https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/local-communities-sanghas
Kristallnachthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
The Miracle of Mindfulnesshttps://plumvillage.org/books/the-miracle-of-mindfulness/ Sutras: ‘Discourse on Knowing the Better Way to Live Alone’https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-knowing-the-better-way-to-live-alone/
‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village/
Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong/
Dharma Talk: ‘Mindfulness and the Police’ by Cheri Mapleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ4jrd9IIh0
A Field Guide to Climate Anxiety: How to Keep Your Cool on a Warming Planethttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50747101-a-field-guide-to-climate-anxiety
Zen and the Art of Saving the Planethttps://www.harpercollins.com/products/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet-thich-nhat-hanh?variant=40244149878818
Online course: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planethttps://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet/
The Way Out Is In: ‘Connecting to Our Roots: Ancestors, Continuation and Transformation (Episode #5)’https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHqj5mLGW5c
Quotes
“As long as you are breathing and have awareness to be with your breath, that is an opportunity. And nobody can take that away, besides our old excuses.”
“At the beginning of my practice, I thought that mindfulness meant doing sitting meditation for 30 minutes every morning or having to do sacred reading or something, and having some kind of spiritual structure or program. And, actually, thanks to the five mindfulness trainings and coming on retreats here, I was like, ‘Oh, mindfulness is in three dimensions. Mindfulness is how I listen to my boss at work. Mindfulness is how I don’t get into arguments with my housemates.’ And I started to realize this three- or four-dimensionality of mindfulness, which is about how I choose to spend my time.”
“If we think of our separate selves as just our life and what we’ve experienced, that cuts off an enormous amount of intelligence, knowledge, and understanding that can help us to understand ourselves more deeply and to heal ourselves.”
“Some of the themes we’ve been speaking about are also around despair, and in the Buddhist teachings, intention – what we’d call aspiration – is the antidote and the medicine for despair. And so, if we’re feeling dull in our life, it may be because we haven’t yet identified what we really want and aren’t acting on it.”
“We do not know how long we have. And if mindfulness can give us anything, it is awakening to what is most important to us.”
“Mindfulness is mindfulness when it starts to generate more love and understanding.”
“Mindfulness is not a pill, but it is a path.”
“For us, mindfulness always contains within it love, understanding, and helping people to suffer less. But it also goes to the roots. And what’s happening now is that there are a lot of mindfulness products which are more about wellbeing and making you feel good. But for us, mindfulness does so much more. It gets to the root of our suffering so we can transform what is painful in our life, so we can generate more happiness in our life, so we can heal, sometimes healing things over many generations.”
“It’s not that you can only be mindful in nature. So somehow challenging ourselves to see what is extraordinary about any moment in front of us, and to give ourselves space to enjoy those moments, can really bring back the sweetness.”

May 26, 2023 • 1h 22min
Listeners’ Questions: Responding from the Heart (Episode #51)
Welcome to episode 51 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.In the spirit of Plum Village and its Zen tradition of public question-and-answer sessions, this is the second time that Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino have responded to listeners’ questions. We hope that the answers will help show how the teachings can help people who are in distress or are dealing with critical issues – but also simply how to find more joy in our lives. Because we have received so many questions – around 200! – further answers will be given in a second part, to be released next week.
The presenters are joined by frequent podcast guest Sister True Dedication (Sister Hien Nghiem). Topics which they address cover a wide range, from how to be brave, to speaking your truth and being fully yourself, and handling strong emotions and dealing with hate. Responses include practical examples, draw on both personal experiences and Buddhist wisdom, and cover numerous other topics, such as: non-attachment and healthy attachments; getting in touch with our patterns; building inner confidence; working with our negative seeds; letting go of pain; practicing with impermanence; the energy of prayer and interbeing; the power and purpose of Thay’s favorite chant, Namo Avalokiteshvara; and more. Plus: what is a mudra?The three presenters also share their favorite daily reminders, sayings, or mantras for bringing them back to the path when they get distracted.
Thank you for listening, and for your questions!Tune in next week for part two.Enjoy!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
List of resourcesSister True Dedication https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem/
The Four Noble Truthshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy-RI3FrdGADharma Talks: ‘True Love and the Four Noble Truths’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/true-love-and-the-four-noble-truths/
Bodhisattvahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva
‘Breathing In, Breathing Out’https://plumvillage.org/library/songs/breathing-in-breathing-out/
Sister Jinahttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dieu-nghiem/
The Five Mindfulness Trainingshttps://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings/
Pain, Despair, and the Second Arrow (a short Thich Nhat Hanh teaching video)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlLvjFPtFXw Sutras: ‘Discourse on the 5 Ways of Putting an End to Anger’https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-the-five-ways-of-putting-an-end-to-anger/ Abrahamic religions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions
Avalokiteśvarahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara
Introduction to Namo Avalokiteshvara (a short Thich Nhat Hanh teaching video)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjBUZrrqAVQ
‘Listening to Namo Avalokiteshvara’https://plumvillage.app/listening-to-namo-avalokiteshvara/
Dharma Talks: ‘Listening to the Chant’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/listening-to-the-chant/
Namo’valokiteshvaraya Chanthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZkjX_c4hm4
Mudrahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra
Nāgārjunahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NagarjunaDharma Talks: ‘The Five Remembrances’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-remembrances-sr-thuan-nghiem-spring-retreat-2018-05-17/
Quotes
“Buddhism has a great lineage tradition of mentoring and guidance, and we are all seekers on the path. But some of us have had more years of experience and mistakes and getting awakened to our suffering, and can share from that experience to help others.”
“Thay would always say a good question can help many of us who are listening in this moment, because a good question will allow a good answer to manifest.”
“Each day that you have stillness, that you have well-being, acknowledge it; make it your moment of presence, of solidarity.”
“In the spirit of Zen, we have the warrior, and how we bring that warrior out is, first of all, by really knowing how to be with oneself when the emotions and storms are present. How do we recognize that and not be a victim of it? Not allowing ourselves to be the anger when the energy of anger manifests, not to be the fear when fear is present, and turtle away.”
“Thay teaches us that a mountain doesn’t move when there’s a storm. And that storm is the storm of our perceptions, our judgment. We’re not being carried away by what we see, what we hear, but we still have the insight of interbeing. Therefore we can still have right view and clarity.”
“I will not spread news that I do not know to be certain.”
“We are not our thoughts, we are not our speech; we are not defined by that. We are so much greater as a formation, as an entity, than all of these things. But we do want to be aware of our legacy in thinking, speech, and action.”“In Buddhism, our negative seeds are just part of the garden that we’re composting. They’re something we’re working with, they’re something to embrace. And the good news of Buddhism is that when you see these seeds, you can get an enlightenment about them. That is the compost that we’re going to practice with: each time these seeds come up, try to make ourselves a little daisy. I may not be a lotus, but maybe one daisy for each seed.”
“Some non-attachments are more difficult than others.”
“Attachment that brings suffering, let it go. The attachment that keeps you on the path: ‘I’m attached to my brown robe. I’m attached to my precepts. I’m attached to my sangha.’ We have to also let go of this view that in Zen there’s no thinking, there’s no feelings, there’s no emotions, there’s no attachment.”
“When the going gets tough, keep going.”
“‘Thanks to impermanence, everything is possible’ comes from a great teacher called Nagarjuna. It’s a Buddhist phrase. And it helps me trust that everything is evolving, everything is shifting. My internal landscape is shifting, the external landscape is shifting. And if it’s hard, it won’t last for long; it’s just a phase that we’re passing through.”
“Awareness is a mirror reflecting the four elements. Beauty is a heart that generates love and a mind that is open.”
“Life is too short for mirrors.”
“Our true actions are our continuation.”

5 snips
May 11, 2023 • 1h 19min
Be Beautiful, Be Yourself (Episode #50)
This discussion dives deep into the challenges of self-acceptance and the struggle between self-loathing and self-compassion. The speakers explore the importance of mindfulness and emotional shifts, emphasizing that happiness isn't solely found in achievements. They celebrate the necessity of personal narratives and the way they shape identity while advocating for genuine connections. The conversation culminates in a guided meditation, fostering a sense of acceptance, compassion, and presence in our ever-changing journeys.

Apr 27, 2023 • 1h 13min
Freedom (Episode #49)
Explore the deeper meaning of freedom through a Buddhist lens, connecting it to responsibility and personal growth. Delve into self-awareness and the impact of desires on true liberation. Discover how genuine connections enhance our freedom and how simplicity can redefine our human experience. Learn to find balance between energy and stillness, and reflect on the ongoing struggles for peace. The journey culminates in mindfulness, showcasing the transformative power of breathing and presence.

Apr 6, 2023 • 1h 42min
Humility in Service to Life (Episode #48)
Discover the delicate dance between fame and humility as two hosts share personal experiences from different corners of the world. They explore how humility nurtures personal growth and community, while fame often leads to emptiness. Unpacking the impact of leadership on ego and connection, they emphasize the power of authentic relationships over superficial status. Delve into guided meditations and mindfulness practices that highlight simplicity, curiosity, and the joy of living authentically.
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