The Systemic Way

Peter Rober returns onto the podcast to talk in detail about his JFT award winning paper ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy, where he and his co-authours talk about the integral role of collaboration and therapeutic alliance in achieving positive outcomes in therapy. In this episode Peter talks to us about the feedback instruments,  the origins of using feedback in his practice, the development of the tools. He  gives examples, tips and insights  in using these in practice. We hear how Peter integrates feedback into practice in a meaningful and collaborative way for families to bring about change. Peter also discusses how fluid the tools are and can be adapted to different cultures, context and settings. Paper reference:Rober, P., Van Tricht, K., & Sundet, R. (2021). ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy. Journal of Family Therapy, 43(1), 46-63.Resources:https://www.intherapytogether.com/

In this episode we meet with Graham Music, Consultant Child Psychotherapist and former Associate Clinical Director at the Tavistock Clinic in London. We discuss his career, his books as we dive into his ideas on the interplay between systemic thinking, attachment theory, developmental psychology and the new frontiers of neuroscience. We discussed this paper as a focus for the conversation:Music, G. (2019). Babies and bathwaters: attachment, neuroscience, evolution and the left. Soundings, 73(73), 111-128.Graham Music works as a therapist both with adults and children, as well as families, especially after trauma, both in the NHS and privately. He is an international speaker, teacher and supervisor of other therapists, working as a consultant psychotherapist at the Tavistock Clinic in London, an internationally renowned mental health centre, where he was formerly an associate clinical director. His passions include child development research, neuroscience and attachment theory, and how cutting-edge developmental findings can help us in our lives and in how we work with others.

Welcome to The Systemic Lens - our podcast where we geek out on systemic ideas and apply them to films, music, literature and pop culture. In this episode we take on the magnificent film,  Everything Everywhere All At Once.Enjoy!

In this episode we speak with the ever inspiring Vikki Reynolds Phd who talks with us about her ongoing work and process of  social justice, direct action and activism. Vikki shares personal and professional insights on her commitment to justice doing, decolonisation and living and working in an ethical way. We hear her dedication to addressing inequality, power structures and discrimination through aligning her values with everyday actions and the importance of  sustaining oneself through this work.  Bio:Vikki Reynolds PhD RCC is an activist/therapist from Vancouver, Canada, who works to bridge the worlds of social justice activism and therapy. Vikki is a white settler of Irish, Newfoundland and English folks, and a heterosexual woman with cisgender privilege. Her experience includes supervision and therapy with peers, activists, and other workers responding to the opioid epidemic/poisonings, torture and political violence, sexualised violence, mental health and substance misuse, homelessness and legislated poverty and working alongside gender and sexually diverse communities. Vikki is an Adjunct Professor and has written, keynoted and presented internationally on the subjects of ‘Witnessing Resistance’ to oppression/trauma, ally work, resisting ‘burnout’ with justice-doing, a supervision of solidarity, ethics, and innovative group work. Vikki’s articles and keynotes are available free on her website:https://vikkireynolds.ca/

In this episode we speak with systemic  and narrative psychotherapist, Sabine Vermeire who discusses in detail her approach to working with children, young people and their families and carers using an attachment narrative approach to nurture belonging and open up therapeutic possibilities. We discuss Sabine's  wonderful paper "No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a sense of belonging" (2021) and take a deeper look at her process, hearing about her approach, theory, case examples and her passion and joy for her inspiring work. Paper reference:Vermeire, S. (2021). No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a sense of belonging. Journal of Family Therapy, 43(3), 414-425.New book link: https://amzn.eu/d/ejZxV8LUnravelling Trauma and Weaving Resilience with Systemic and Narrative Therapy: Playful Collaborations with Children, Families and Networks (The Systemic Thinking and Practice Series) Bio:Sabine Vermeire has a Master’s degree in Psychological and Educational Sciences and graduated as a Systemic Psychotherapist (Interactie-Academie) and as a Narrative Therapist (Institute of Narrative Therapy). As a member of staff at the Interactie-Academie, a training center for systemic psychotherapy and counseling in Antwerp (Belgium), she works as a trainer, psychotherapist and supervisor in systemic, narrative and collaborative therapy. She is experienced in working with children, youngsters and families in challenging contexts like attachment problems, violence, abuse, psychiatric problems and trauma. She wrote several articles and book chapters on these subjects.For more than thirty years she worked with disadvantaged children, youngsters and their families. She strongly believes in the values they hold and together with them keeps on searching for ways to go on. What challenges her is to talk and work with young people and their parents or carers without reproducing abuse or violence in the conversations and still create possibilities in a collaborative way when speaking becomes difficult. This brought her the previous years on a quest finding ways of “talking off the beaten track” and work in creative ways. She use both interviews, reflecting team processes, witnesses and footage in her work.She is president of the Narrative, Dialogical and Collaborative Collective of The Low Lands (Belgium and The Netherlands) that organizes international conferences, workshops and other activities to share, develop and expand narrative, dialogical and collaborative practices, theory and gathering together as a community.Sabine wrote several books and articles (in English and in Dutch). A few of them in collaborations with the children or families she works with.

In this episode we focus on the special issue in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (JMFT) which reviews the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family therapy from the last decade. We speak with editors of the review Dr Andrea Wittenborn and Dr Kendal Holtrop who share their process and insights into collaborating on the reviews creation, the value of research in family therapy and using research to connect to real life practice. Wittenborn, A. K., &  Holtrop, K. (2022).  Introduction to the special issue on the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family interventions: Evidence base update 2010–2019. Journal of Marital and Family Therapy,  48,  5– 22. https://doi.org/10.1111/jmft.12576Bios:Dr. Andrea Wittenborn is Professor of Human Development and Family Studies. She also holds an appointment in the Division of Psychiatry and Behavioral Medicine. Dr. Wittenborn obtained her Ph.D. from Purdue University in 2007, served on the faculty at Virginia Tech for seven years, and joined Michigan State University in 2014. Her research evaluates the process and outcomes of interventions for depression, including methods for personalizing treatment. As a clinical researcher, she tests interventions that target interpersonal mechanisms of depression with the goal of decreasing depressive symptoms and enhancing close relationships. Her work has been funded by federal agencies such as the National Institutes of Health, as well as state, foundation, and intramural awards. Dr. Wittenborn has served in multiple leadership positions including Director of Graduate Studies, Governor-appointed member of the Michigan Board of Marriage and Family Therapy, National Institutes of Health grant reviewer, editor of the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy effectiveness in couple and family therapy decade review issue, and Editorial Board Member of the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, Journal of Couple and Relationship Therapy, and Contemporary Family Therapy. She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist and an AAMFT Approved Clinical Supervisor. Dr. Wittenborn has received several awards for her research and mentoring of graduate students.Dr. Kendal Holtrop is an associate professor of human development and family studies. She obtained her PhD from Michigan State University in 2011, served on the faculty at Florida State University for six years, and then returned to MSU in 2017. Dr. Holtrop’s program of research focuses on parenting and parenting interventions, with the goal of addressing mental health disparities by expanding the reach of evidence-based parenting interventions among underserved populations. Her research activities include adapting and implementing evidence-based interventions in community settings as well as examining parenting practices and family processes to inform intervention work. Dr. Holtrop completed a Child Intervention, Prevention, and Services (CHIPS) training fellowship, funded by the national Institute for Mental Health, from 2015-2016. She is an Editorial Board Member for the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (term ending 2017) and an Advisory Editor for Family Process. She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist and an AAMFT Approved Supervisor.

In this episode we speak with Kam Kaur (senior social worker/systemic practitioner) and Claire Field (social care consultant and managing director) as they share with us details of The Parenting Apart Programme. We hear about their personal and professional connections in developing  the programme and in working with separated parents in conflict. They share their wisdom and experience of how to support parents during these challenging and difficult processes as we get an insightful walk through the 7 steps of the programme; examples of the positive impact their work has had on families and; we talk through some of the systemic ideas that have influenced their work. Claire and Kam take us to the heart of their work with their passion and commitment to supporting families and achieving a positive social impact.You can find out more about their work on their website: https://www.parentingapartprogramme.co.ukYou can also watch their short film on there approach on:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBiH_2iryI4

In this episode we talk to systemic psychotherapist, consultant and filmmaker Charlotte Burck about her inspiration and process of making this personal film about the development of systemic family psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic, UK. Charlotte shares  professional and personal stories about this unique time and the joys and challenges of bringing this story to film. The film Working from the Margins. The development of systemic psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic can be viewed for free here: https://youtu.be/wMSX_PJSgb0 Charlotte Burck's Bio (taken from The Taos Institute):Charlotte is an honorary consultant systemic psychotherapist at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, and is director of the Family Therapy and Systemic Research Centre, a resource for systemic, social constructionist, narrative, dialogical therapists and researchers and the public. The FTSRC website, which is hosted on the Tavistock & Portman website, holds a database of research references pertinent to the field, of qualitative and process research, of effectiveness and outcome research, and of links to researchers and their websites.Charlotte worked for 25 years as a consultant systemic psychotherapist, trainer, supervisor and researcher in the child and adolescent mental health department of the Tavistock Clinic, where she did clinical work, carried out research and trained systemic clinicians at all levels. With David Campbell, she designed and then ran the Professional Doctorate in Systemic Psychotherapy, a research programme for systemic psychotherapists to explore clinical and organisational questions close to their heart. She had a special clinical interest in working with families who have experienced violence or high parental conflict.With her colleague Gillian Hughes, Charlotte set up a small team, Refugee Resilience Collective in March 2016, offering weekly narrative-systemic psychosocial and political resilience-based support to refugees and volunteers, in the Calais area, which continues offering weekly support to volunteers in Calais and to voluntary organisations working with refugees in Greece.Charlotte is the author of Multilingual Living. Explorations of Language and Subjectivity, based on her Phd research, and is co-author (with Gwyn Daniel) of Gender and Family Therapy, co-editor (with Gwyn Daniel) of Mirrors and Reflections: Processes in Systemic Supervision, co-editor (with Ellie Kavner & Sara Barratt) of Positions and Polarities in Contemporary Systemic Practice. The legacy of David Campbell, co-editor (with Bebe Speed) of Gender, Power and Relationships, She is the series editor (with Gwyn Daniel) of the Routledge Systemic Thinking and Practice Series, which commissions books from systemic and narrative psychotherapists, organisational consultants and others, relevant to the systemic, narrative and dialogical fields. Other publications can be located at: repository.tavistockandportman.ac.uk/view/creators/BurckCharlotte recently trained as a documentary film-maker, and to date has made two films featuring refugees. It remains crucial to her to develop and sustain connections with other systemic, social constructionist, narrative, and dialogical professionals, as well as to critical theorists and psychosocial colleagues, in order to sustain solidarity and creativit

In this episode Professor Vernon Cronen shares his journey in developing CMM. Professor Cronen talks about his relationship with Barnet Pearce, introducing the ideas in the UK and the current developments of CMM theory and practice. Vernon weaves his experiences with stories from his life giving us a colourful and intricate walk through his relationship with CMM. Prof. Vernon Cronen has been a member of the faculty of the University of Massachusetts, Department of Communication since 1970. He was for many years Senior Consultant at the KCC Foundation (Kensington Consultation Centre, London). He is also an Associate of CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution. Professor Cronen is best known for his work on the communication theory Coordinated Management of Meaning which he co-authored with Barnett Pearce. He has lectured and presented workshop in many places in the US and through Europe. Vernon Cronen is Co-author with Barnett Pearce of the book Communication, Action and Meaning: The Creation of Social realities . Cronen describes CMM as a “practical theory” that can also be put to critical purposes. As a practical theory it provides a grammar of action for joining with others to create new possibilities for joint action. He is author or co-author of numerous articles and book chapters in communication, psychology, and consultation. 

In this episode we meet with Consultant systemic psychotherapist Carol Halliwell as she shares her personal and professional connections with the Just Therapy team at the Family Centre in New Zealand.We explore the Just Therapy approach and hear how the guiding principles that underpin their work has influenced and guided Carol's practice for over 20 years.