Sober Curious

My guest today is the brilliant astrologer and author Bess Matassa. Bess is a long-time friend and collaborator of mine, and I knew she would be the perfect person to bring on for this episode on The Astrology of Addiction. Now, I know this topic might be a bit “out there” for some of you. But I am confident that whatever your interest in or thoughts about astrology, you will find plenty that you can relate to in our conversation, while having your mind blown just a little bit along the way.Ultimately, Bess and I use astrology less as a divination tool for “predicting” future events – and more as a language of symbols to describe the more numinous, or unknowable and unnamable, aspect of being human. That is, the part of being human that we are often attempting to either run towards or away from when we are reaching for alcohol and other drugs.We get into how we can use astrology for self-awareness – and as a way of looking at our addictive tendencies. We also go into some specific astrological teachings that listeners can apply to their own lives and Bess shares the details of how she came to be sober curious herself. PS: this conversation was originally recorded as part of Sober Voices Flow. In the episode we discuss:-Bess’s own journey with substance abuse and her current relationship with alcohol-How astrology and alcohol have served a similar purpose in her life – but both with different outcomes-How astrology can help connect us to the concept of a “higher power” -The concepts of “fate” and “free will” and when to accept life as it is and when to take control-How knowing your astrological birth chart can help you understand who you are and what you need-Being guided by our feelings as much as our thoughts-A primer on how to read your astrological birth chart – and why we all contain all the astrological “signs”-Specific examples of how to use astrology on your sober curious path-Why life gives us friction and challenges to work with in order to help us grow-How astrology can help us understand individual differences in terms of values and needs-How current astrological transits are shaping thinking about addiction and mental healthBess Matassa is an astrologer and the author of The Numinous Cosmic Year – a total, interactive guide to the astrology of 2022. Learn more about Bess and her work HERE and use the code COSMICMOCKTAL for 20% off a personal reading with Bess. 

My guest today is the spiritual teacher and author Kate Johnson. Kate’s new book is called Radical Friendship, and I knew I wanted to have her on the podcast as soon as I read it.I don’t know about all of you, but closing out 2021 I have been feeling the impact of 18 months of social distancing. The past few months, I’ve found myself questioning who my real friends are; whether I’ve been a good enough friend to people; and what kinds of friendships I want to invest in going forward.This process has reminded me a lot of how it can feel navigating your new social landscape after you quit drinking. One of the biggest questions I hear people asking when they get Sober Curious is: am I going to lose all my friends? And, well, Kate also celebrated 10 years of sobriety this year – and so she is perfectly placed to speak to this. We also talk about why friendship is so important, why these relationships are often devalued compared to family and romantic ties, and how we can all be better friends to one another. In the episode we discuss:-The value and importance of friendship – and why these relationships are often not valued the same as family and romantic partners-Why strong friendships are a vital part of affecting social change-Reevaluating her friendships, and relearning how to make new friends, after she quit drinking-A Buddhist approach to relationships and the notion of “spiritual friendships”-How her meditation and yoga practice have helped access states of calm in sobriety-How removing alcohol helped her address underlying mental health issues -Why sobriety helps you get real with yourself – so you can be more real with others-Working with our “persistent visitors” (anxiety, repetitive thoughts and fears etc.) rather than trying to numb them out-Kate’s definition of “freedom” and how we can begin to liberate ourselves and each other from suffering-Seeing friendship as a source of joy and turning towards this in times of suffering-Why friendship is an activity – and how we can be proactive about centering friendship in our livesKate Johnson is a spiritual teacher and author of Radical Friendship. Learn more about her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @hellokatejohnson.Big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order.

My guest today is Bill Shufelt, who is the founder of Athletic Brewing – my favorite alcohol-free craft brewery!Bill has been a major player in spearheading the rapidly expanding non-alcoholic space and in this episode he shares his own sober curious journey, what led him to quitting drinking completely nine years ago, and the story behind how he quit his job and took the leap into the entrepreneurial space.Along the way, we touch on some really interesting points that help to join the dots between the competitive, high-performance culture that underpins so much of American life, and the dominant drinking culture here. Bill also shares some surprising statistics about the way Americans drink, and the impact of problem drinking on a micro and a macro level.He also shares about the wider mission of Athletic and how his own sobering up has led to a personal commitment to being a positive force for change. In the episode we discuss:-How having more access to information about our health and wellbeing has been a major factor in more people getting sober curious.-Why non-drinking is far more widespread than we think – and the role advertising plays in normalizing excessive drinking.-His own Sober Curious journey, and why he decided to quit drinking completely nine years ago.-Choosing not to drink as part of a high-performance lifestyle – and how alcohol creates a false ceiling in our lives that we don’t realize is there until we quit.-How cutting out booze sparked his intellectual curiosity, leading to the years of research he put into the launch of Athletic.-Using alcohol to manage stress and to mask the emotional pain of losing his mom at age 18.-How addressing his own misperceptions about drinking helped him feel more comfortable with his choice.-The ripple-effect of quitting drinking – and how this often leads to friends and family reevaluating their relationships to alcohol.-Why the craft brewing industry has been so slow to go alcohol-free - and why this is changing fast.-The lasting impact of prohibition in the US and how this still impacts the way we drink today.-The alternative ways he’s found to relax and unwind as a non-drinker (and how his social life really hasn’t changed).Learn more about Bill and Athletic Brewing HERE.Big thanks to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Get 15% off your order at Optimistdrinks.com with the code CURIOUS.

My guest today is Allie Lerner, a sex and trauma therapist who I invited on to the show to talk about how she quit her 10-year addiction to Adderall.Adderall is a prescription drug, and one that enables certain traits that are celebrated in our society – such as productivity and thinness. Both factors that mean this is an addiction that often flies under the radar. In our conversation, Allie describes how it crept up on her, and how it came to completely take over her life to the point where she was barely sleeping or eating – while even she was in complete denial that she had a problem.In many ways, Allie was the definition of a “high-functioning” addict. Having suffered from an eating disorder from a very early age, she is also brutally honest about the role that her body image issues played in her turning a blind eye to what she eventually came to realize would kill her if she didn’t find a way to quit.Our conversation also pans out to look at the impossible standards of perfection that women in particular are asked to hold ourselves to – while labeling any inability to perform or keep it all together as a weakness. In the episode we discuss:-Using Adderall in college to help with focus – and how this led to a daily, 10-year habit-Why this drug is so popular – and this addiction so rampant - in a society that values productivity, perfectionism, and thinness -Why this is a drug that enables and personifies “high-functioning” addiction-How easy it is to overlook addictions to legal and / or prescription drugs-How a drug designed to help you focus actually creates total chaos-What led to her “moment of clarity” about quitting – and the intense physical experience of detoxing from Adderall -Why her body image issues made it easier to love herself while she was in her addiction -The toxicity of “looking good” in a fat phobic, misogynistic, ableist society-Maintaining her career as a mental health professional throughout her addiction-Her definition of “trauma” – and why trauma and addiction go hand-in-hand-How her addiction – and her sobriety – impacted her sexual expressionLearn more about Allie Lerner and her work at Allielerner.comBig thank you to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them @optimistdrinks and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

My guest today is Jamila Reddy, a lifestyle designer, holistic wellness advocate, and empowerment coach, who has first-hand experience of how one person’s substance abuse can impact on the wider family system.Jamila lost her older sister to addiction coming up on three years ago at the time of recording, and I invited her on to talk about how she and her family coped with this loss. Many of us have experienced watching our loved ones struggle with addiction – as well as navigating the mental health issues that are often behind this – and have felt the pain of knowing that there is only so much we can ever do to help somebody who, for whatever reason, is unable to help themselves.In this conversation, Jamila shares vulnerable truths about her journey with her sister. Along the way, we discuss the life events that can trigger addictive behaviors, the fine line between helping and enabling, the guilt and shame that can permeate families experiencing addiction, and how the grieving process has helped to inform her work and her mission in the wider world. In the episode we discuss: -Why siblings can have such different experiences with substance abuse – despite having the same upbringing and genetic imprints.-The differences in how she and her sister processed the fallout from her parents’ divorce.-Feeling like she lost her friend after her sister started drinking – and the impact of her sister’s using use on the wider family system.-Drinking to enable extreme behavior and “act out” the feelings we can’t express in words.-How her sister’s drinking progressed to harder drug use.-The fine line between helping and enabling a person who is struggling.-How the unexpected nature of her sister’s death – and how much harder this made it to grieve.-How a person’s agency and the choices they make are compromised by addiction.-How her Buddhist practices have helped her process and make sense of her sister’s death.-How the hardest of times can help us flower and bloom in new ways.-The importance of resourcing ourselves with rest, pleasure, and joy before we burn out. -Missing her sister the most in times of intense joy – and seeing the death of a loved one as a permission slip to live life to the fullest.Discover more about Jamila and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @jamilareddyBig thank you to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them @optimistdrinks and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

My guest today is Dr. Nicole LePera, a.k.a. The Holistic Psychologist. Given her extensive social media following, it’s very likely you are familiar with Nicole’s work—which has helped to democratize the field of psychotherapy. On her Instagram account, Nicole has made theories, tools, and practices for what she terms “self-healing” available and accessible to millions of people – and her new book, which is titled How to Do the Work, breaks down her approach to creating positive change in our live.In this episode we talk about how this applies to being sober curious, and how part of the healing path is to reevaluate the impact of alcohol and other substances on our mental and emotional health.Nicole also talks about her own journey with substances, and why it often feels easier to cling to what we know, even when it’s hurting us. She also beaks down in detail exactly what is happening in our brains when we reach for drink and other drugs to numb out, dissociate, or self-medicate.Which is just a fraction of everything we cover in this episode, which was full of lightbulb moments for me. I hope you get as much out of it as I did. In the episode we discuss: -How she defines “the work” of healing ourselves.-How we get stuck in the disconnect between “knowing better” and “doing better.”-Discovering alcohol at age 13 to help her dissociate from the constant anxiety in her family home.-Why shame is one of the most common reasons people use substances - and how the stigma of addiction only adds to this.-How to replace whatever we are using to numb out with new tools to help us find a new path forward.-How the inner changes we are working on create a ripple effect in the world – and the people - around us.-Why we cling to what we know – even when it’s no longer serving us.-Her expanded definition of childhood trauma – and how this creates repercussions throughout our lives.-The specific reasons alcohol can be used to mask past trauma.-The meaning of the term “self-regulation” – and why our substance use stems from a desire to regulate an agitated nervous system.-How we can also get addicted to stress – and unconsciously seek out experiences to keep us in an activated state (especially on social media).-Why getting conscious about everything we consume – from booze to news to social media – is part of our healing.-AND SO MUCH MORE FASCINATING STUFF (including the importance of poop).Get your copy of How To Do The Work HERE and follow her on Instagram.Big thanks to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them on Instagram and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

My guest this week is Jessica Murnane – a podcaster, author, and women’s health advocate, who is also one of the most down-to-earth and non-preachy people in the modern wellness space.Jessica’s and I met when were both promoting our first books four years ago. I had only just started speaking about being sober curious publicly and Jess was one of the first people I’d come across who had cut booze out of her life for health reasons – namely as part of the holistic protocol she had embraced to manage her endometriosis. For the unfamiliar, endometriosis is a chronic condition where the lining of the womb starts to grow on other organs of the body. It affects over 170 million people worldwide with sufferers experiencing excruciating pain—but it often goes undiagnosed for decades. It’s also the subject of Jess’s latest book, Know Your Endo – and we get into all the reasons why this is illness is so taboo in our interview.As it pertains to being sober curious, the reality of endo is that there is no quick fix—just like there is no “off switch” when it comes to problematic drinking. We also discuss why many people living with chronic pain – whether physical, mental, or emotional – turn to substances to numb out, and how hard it can be to choose what we know is “good” for us when all we want is relief.Most importantly, we talk about how to advocate for yourself and give yourself what you need – especially when the other people in your life may not understand where you’re experiencing. In the episode we discuss: -Growing up “Straight Edge” and choosing NOT to drink as an act of rebellion.-Receiving mixed messages about alcohol in the home.-Being introduced to booze as part of her career in the culinary world.-What makes alcohol feel special – and why we associate drinking with elevated experiences.-The prevalence and normalization of daily drinking on TV and in the media.-Cutting alcohol out again to help manage her endometriosis. -The mental health impact of living with chronic pain – and why it makes sense to want to numb out.-Using cannabis medicinally – and questioning when this becomes too much of a crutch.-Training your body to appreciate the long-term benefits of holistic healing methods over the instant relief of booze and pills.-How changing your diet can impact your mental and emotional wellbeing.-Why we want to believe in “quick-fixes” and why creating sustainable change always takes time.Learn more about Jessica and her work HERE and get your copy of Know Your Endo HERE. You can also follow @jessicamurnane on Instagram.Thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% off your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20.

My guest this week is Diego Perez – you will likely know by his Instagram handle @yung_pueblo. I invited Diego on to talk about his new book, Clarity & Connection, which are two of the qualities which go hand in hand with being Sober Curious. What not so many people know, is that Diego quit all “intoxicants” many years ago, after hitting his own rock bottom with alcohol and other drugs – and that this has been an integral part of his career as a writer and deep meditator.He shares all the details of his self-directed recovery in this episode, as well as personal details about how being sober curious and developing greater self-awareness and emotional intelligence has positively impacted every aspect of his life.I think this might actually one of my all-time favorite episodes. As his readers will know, Diego has a unique ability to share deep spiritual truths in a way that makes them super accessible and our conversation was filled with aha moments for me. In the episode we discuss:-Alcohol as one of the empty promises of consumer culture.-His own background with substance abuse and when he decided to quit all drugs.-Why an attachment to pleasure prevents us from addressing why we feel bad.-Quitting alcohol and marijuana to deepen his meditation practice.-Recovery as a process of uncovering our true self.-Paying our recovery forward for the benefit of future generations.-How deeper self-awareness leads to deeper connections with others.-The process of letting go – and how not to throw more tension at our tension.-Developing a neutral mind towards alcohol and other things we have developed attachments and aversions to.-How sobriety and being on the spiritual path has impacted his relationship with his wife.-How to navigate conflict in relationships – and how not to always need to be right.-How he approaches his writing and his creative process.Get your copy of Clarity & Connection by Diego Perez HERE and follow him on IG @yung_pueblo.Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% of your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20

My guest this week is Samantha Moyo – an activist, artist, and creative expansion coach.I asked her on the podcast, because she is also the original founder of Morning Gloryville, which was the first sober morning dance party when it launched back in 2013. Sam shares the origin story of what became a movement that helped millions of peopleSince she moved on from that role, she been pretty involved in the activism scene and has also worked with all sorts of organizations, teams, and individuals to help bring the humanity and the creativity back into what they do.For me Sam is the definition of a “free spirit” – and our conversation goes to some pretty wild and out there places. I encourage you to keep an open mind and heart while listening. I should also include a trigger warning – as about half-way through our interview, Sam shares why she decided to start drinking again after her years as a figurehead for sobriety. There’s also plenty of sex and general spiritual rock ‘n’ roll throughout, so it’s probably not one to listen to with your grandma. In the episode we discuss:-Her role in the origin story of the original sober dance party, Morning Gloryville.-Searching for ways to find pleasure, joy, and self-expression without substances.-Bringing the “erotic” – our joyful life force energy – to everything we do.-Her definition of “unapologetic living” – and how she came to focus on this in her life and work.-How cancel culture has prevented people from feeling safe to express themselves.-Seeing herself as a “soul” first and foremost - before any of the intersecting identities she embodies.-Creating her own spiritual practices for moving stuck energy through her body – including “tree humping” (!!) and howling-Getting back to the primal self and living beyond societal conditioning.-Having the courage to live as ourselves - without judgement.-Why it’s essential to resource yourself with community, nature, love, and other healing practices before you quit drinking.-Having a glass of wine during lockdown – and her attitudes to drinking now.-Why she thinks activism is dead – and creativity is the new activism.Discover more about Sam and her work HERE and find all the details for her upcoming Creative Expansion Program HERE. You can also follow her on IG @mysticmoyoBig thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% of your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20

Luke Simon is a mystic and longtime collaborator in the sober curious movement, and author of the new book, Venus Juice.I first met Luke when I started attending all kinds of far out healing circles in the mid- 2010s, when he was known as one of the co-founders of the now sadly shuttered Maha Rose Center for the Healing Arts in Brooklyn. A sensitive and artistic soul, Luke’s work in the healing space led to him investigating ways to get high on his own supply – and in this episode we discuss why we use alcohol and other substances to get high, when there are so many other ways to access joy and lightness and high vibes. We also talk about the important of self-love and self-acceptance, which includes accepting our mistakes – subjects Luke unpacks in his memoir, Venus Juice, which tells the story of when he tried (and failed) to find love and make it as an Instagram healer in LA. In the episode we discuss:-The “social experiment” of socializing sober.-The aggressive nature of the drinking culture when you’re a sensitive person.-Creating sober social spaces where people can feel safe to let loose.-Shifting from wanting to check out and lose ourselves to actively trying to find ourselves.-Drinking as a “get out of my responsibilities for free” card. -Healthy ways to lose control.-Finding your sober friends and being accepted for who you are.-“Laughter yoga”—and other ways to get high on your own supply.-Why we think we need alcohol to have fun as grown-ups.-How to keep reaching for “high vibes” without bypassing the realities of life.-Looking for love in booze and other drugs – and how to love yourself.-The importance of failing and making mistakes.Get your copy of Luke's memoir, Venus Juice: When I Tried to Live in LA, HERE, and follow him on Instagram @lukesimon_mystic.Thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. New customers can get 20% off your first order with the code RUBY20 at Athleticbrewing.com