Think Like an Owner

My guests on this episode are Michael Curry and Keith Burns who together have acquired 11 diagnostic radiation and other physics services businesses since 2014 through their platform Apex Physics Partners. This episode is loaded with wisdom and insights. I had a number of alternative titles I considered based on quotes for the conversation like "the CEO of Delta doesn't know how to fly" or "putting out fires with your face." Ultimately, earning the right to lead felt right as we talk extensively about their experience being first-time CEOs in an industry they had no background in, but through it all, they've managed to build an impressive track record at Apex with an ever-growing team. Over the course of this episode, we discuss the concept of the messy middle between the start and ultimate success of a business, signal versus noise and learning about the company you've acquired, how to know you're a good leader, letting go of control, and building a culture that grows. Enjoy. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Keith Burns on LinkedIn Michael Curry on LinkedIn Apex Physics Partners Seneca Creek Kruger Gilbert Health Physics The Hard thing about Hard things by Ben Horowitz Topics: (5:07) - Michael & Keith’s backgrounds (11:19) - What does a medical physics business look like? (15:19) - Learning about what you actually bought vs. what you think you bought (20:17) - Earning the right to lead (22:33) - How did you figure out where you needed to invest your efforts in repairing relationships with the team? (28:07) - How do you interpret the “messy middle” of acquiring a business? (33:14) - Are there key memories where you felt like things were turning in your favor? (39:33) - Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life. (42:34) - How do you let go of people who aren’t a good fit yet are embedded within a small company? (48:27) - How did you approach hiring people who were smarter than you and giving them control? (56:14) - What college class would you teach if it could be about anything? (54:45) - What strongly held belief have you changed your mind on? (59:40) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen?

My guests on this episode are Lori Harrington and Bruce Vanderzyde. Lori launched a search in October 2020 and recently acquired Bruce's company Anterra Tech at the end of 2021, which offers business intelligence software for the construction and real estate industries. This episode is a great discussion of how building a better relationship with a seller, negotiating upfront, bringing great advisors, and emphasizing strong and frequent communication can lead to a successful deal. Whether you're buying or selling a business, this conversation has a ton to offer. During the episode, we go over how their first meeting went, how they made their due diligence process easier on each other, the power of building a strong relationship, and their advice both for searchers and owners looking to sell their companies. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Anterra Tech Lori Harrington on LinkedIn Bruce Vanderzyde on LinkedIn Traction by Gino Wickman PEC Safety (now Veriforce) Buc-ees Topics: (4:36) - Lori & Bruce’s Career backgrounds (10:00) - What has become more difficult as the company became larger? (11:18) - Why made Lori’s offer more interesting than others to buy your company? (14:33) - What was it about meeting with Bruce that made his company more attractive to buy? (16:10) - How did meeting with Lori increase your confidence in the deal? (18:51) - What parts of the process did you focus on to make the transaction as smooth as possible? (22:45) - The importance of constant communication during an acquisition (23:36) - Bruce’s experience balancing due diligence while still running the company (26:38) - Thinking about life after selling your business (29:02) - Thinking about life after completing the search process (30:10) - How do you look to the board for guidance? (31:09) - What did your first 30 days look like in terms of communication, especially with a remote team?  (35:07) - Are there any compound benefits to running a remote company for 6+ years? (36:00) - Dealing with letting go of control of your company (39:09) - How do you discover best processes from a company you acquire? (40:02) - What advice would you offer to searchers and sellers? (45:45) - What college class would you teach if it could be about anything? (47:53) - What’s a strongly held belief you’ve changed your mind on? (49:33) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen?

Justin Burris and Tim Ludwig, co-founders of Majority Search, share their innovative approach to small business acquisitions. They discuss the personalized buyer narratives essential for success and the importance of stewardship in ownership transitions. The duo explores how aspiring entrepreneurs can gain experience through apprenticeship, helping create trust with current business owners. They emphasize the value of community among founders and investors, highlighting collaborative efforts to enrich the entrepreneurial landscape.

This week is a bonus episode. We are cross posting a guest appearance I had on John Wilson's Owned and Operated podcast. I'm a big fan of John and enjoy his podcast immensely, and I wanted to share it with you all. In this episode, I share more about my philosophy behind the Operator's Handbook and all the ins and outs you want to know about podcasting. Near the end, I manage to turn the mic around on him and learn about his idea of bloating before optimizing and growing Wilson Plumbing and their other acquisitions. I hope you enjoy this Owned and Operated episode with John Wilson and myself. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Owned & Operated Podcast My First Million Podcast Think Like An Owner Ep. 47 with John Wilson Peter Attia’s private podcast Knifepoint Horror Podcast - Apple Podcasts & Spotify Grant’s Interest Rate Observer The Economist Harvard Business Review BizBuySell How to Get Rich by Felix Dennis Topics: (1:36) - Introducing Alex & discussing podcasting (5:08) - Alex’s background, starting Think Like An Owner & The Operator’s Handbook (9:34) - When did Think Like An Owner shift from being a hobby to a business? (12:03) - The podcasting business model (19:07) - Building The Operator’s Handbook and why Alex chose a print format (31:20) - The process of creating one issue of The Operator’s Handbook (35:39) - Subscriber growth from the first issue (37:05) - The team behind The Operator’s Handbook (39:16) - What’s the process like of bringing on a team? (40:43) - Acquiring & growing publications and media outfits (50:39) - John on growing his service businesses (53:57) - Bloating with an imperfect process (57:32) - Alex’s search for a media acquisition (59:43) - Wrap up

My guest on this episode is Greg Geronemus, co-founder and managing partner of Footbridge Partners, a traditional search investment firm. This is my second episode with Greg, the first being episode 17 back in April 2020, where Greg shared his experience acquiring and operating his search company SmarTours and launching Footbridge. Well, two years later, Greg and his partner David have raised that fund and are halfway through their investment period with a budding portfolio of searchers. In this second episode, Greg shares his view on the role of a search investor, misconceptions in traditional search, the risk in buying at larger multiples, and a few wild stories from his time running SmarTours. Enjoy. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Footbridge Partners Greg's first appearance on TLAO SmarTours Forest Park Capital The Skin Center Topics: (4:45) - Greg’s Background and career (6:43) - How much did the experience of running smart tours help in your advisement to searchers? (8:40) - Is there a specific experience from your time with Smart Tours that you reference often with searchers? (10:21) - Greg’s experience cancelling a season of Ukrainian river cruises (11:11) - Have you invested in any companies that have the same exposure as Smart Tours? (12:19) - Are there any themes you’ve noticed in the investments you pursue? (14:10) - What is your perspective on the role of a search investor? (18:10) - Can a hands-on investor approach be scaled across 60-70 searchers? (19:53) - Common misconceptions about the world of search (25:35) - What risks do you see in searchers buying larger and larger businesses? (29:30) - What are some interesting changes you’re seeing on the self-funded searcher side? (33:23) - How can a self-funded searcher or search investor protect themselves during the process? (37:33) - As an investor, What sorts of numbers, metrics and reports are you looking for from searchers either quarterly or annually? (40:13) - How frequently do you communicate with searchers? (42:16) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen?

My guest on this episode is Mehtab Bhogal, co-founder of Karta Ventures. Karta is a Canadian based e-commerce acquirer investing primarily in e-commerce turnarounds, a corner of the world I didn't even know existed but that is incredibly fascinating. This episode is one of my recent favorites because of Mehtab’s ability to share high level insights and then, in the next sentence, dive deep into obscure e-commerce details. If you enjoy conversations with seasoned operators who love to get their hands dirty, you will love this episode. During our conversation, Mehtab describes the dynamics within turnaround businesses, the risk return profile of each of them, which mimics venture in many ways, how he finds companies, and some incredible stories about what he's discovered in declining e-commerce companies. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Mehtab Bhogal on LinkedIn Karta Ventures Diapers.com  Josh’s Frogs Josh’s Frogs on YouTube Topics: (5:06) - Mehtab’s background and career (7:14) - Dropping out of college to flip guitars full-time (8:40) - Launching a search vehicle (9:54) - What kinds of deals did you find via Reddit? (11:02) - When did you get the sense that you were on the right track with DTC brands? (12:48) - What are the dynamics of a turn-around business? (14:24) - What are the main reasons an e-commerce business will become a turn-around business? (15:59) - What companies in a turn-around situations do you steer clear from? (17:02) - Why are you able to do due diligence so much faster with these types of companies? (17:52) - The nuance between product issues and marketing issues (19:15) - The low cost of entry for these businesses (20:30) - Risk-return vs. Venture (21:59) - How do you find these companies and choose the best ones? (24:12) - What happens day 1 after acquiring the business? (26:00) - What are some easily identifiable expenses that you find and cut? (28:50) - How do you evaluate managers? (29:59) - What do you do to shift companies into growth mode? (31:22) - What changes do you make on the product, sales and marketing side? (32:34) - A discussion on Lean production (33:50) - How do you evaluate whether a product is a breakeven bread product? (34:25) - Are you able to see what order items are added to someones cart? (36:58) - What are you surprised by that’s missing or not done well at these companies? Any wild stories? (40:56) - What college class would you teach if it could cover anything? (42:28) - What’s a strongly held belief you’ve changed your mind on? (42:59) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen?

My guest on this episode is Sam Shepler. Sam is the founder of Testimonial Hero, a company he bootstrapped that helps companies create more effective video customer testimonials. Sam and I spend much of the episode talking about how to create great testimonials for your company and what the driving reasons are for using video over text or other mediums. In addition to being focused on a really interesting part of a sales process, Testimonial Hero itself is an interesting case study at what a bootstrap services company grows into overtime. Over the course of the episode, we talk about hiring a great team, using software and technology in your business to automate processes, and we spend some time near the end discussing time management and productivity. Enjoy. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Sam on Twitter Testimonial Hero Gumroad Andrew Wilkinson: Lazy Leadership Topics: (3:31) - How do you think about investing yourself and your professional development? (6:45) - What are some of the biggest changes you’ve made in your routine as you’ve grown in your career? (8:05) - What are some learnings you’ve had from working with coaches? (10:02) - How did you build Testimonial Hero? What were the early days like? (12:12) - What research have you found in the comparison of effectiveness between pull quotes and video reviews? (14:15) - What kinds of companies are best suited for video testimonials? (17:16) - If a company doesn’t have a content strategy or video testimonials, which should they pursue first? (18:16) - Were video testimonials always the main product at Testimonial Hero? (19:11) - What’s been your journey as a founder? (21:01) - Was there a tipping point that launched your growth? (22:15) - What did your day as a CEO look like in year 1 vs. now? (24:40) - Was there a moment where you realized you needed to bring on a General Manager? (25:50) - Tracking a CEO’s time (27:53) - What college course would you teach if it could be on anything? (28:35) - What strongly held belief have you changed your mind on? (29:24) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen? (30:53) - Are there parts of Gumroad you’ve tried to emulate?

My guest on this episode is Robert Graham. Robert worked in management roles at Eaton prior to attending Harvard Business School, after which he worked in investment banking and private equity. Eventually, he decided to search for a business after seeing his HBS classmates do it, and today Robert is Managing Partner at Pillar Health Group, the holding company for four healthcare businesses he acquired together as a searcher. He's also a partner at Search Investment Group, which advises searchers on finding and acquiring their dream business. Search Investment Group also invests in self-funded searchers and has launched a new funded search program that functions as a hybrid between self-funded and traditional funded search. We discussed this program, its goals and feedback they've received from searchers in the episode. During our conversation, we also talk about what managing large manufacturing facilities with hundreds of employees is like, why Robert didn't want to acquire a manufacturing business as part of his search, running two businesses at once with Pillar Health and Search Investment Group, and time management as a CEO. Listen weekly and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: Robert on LinkedIn Harvard Business School Search Investment Group Pillar Health Group Topics: (4:07) - Robert’s journey into Search (5:32) - Could you have launched a search fund directly after attending HBS? (6:38) - How did your experience prior to Harvard Business School help prepare you for searching? (7:40) - Robert’s experience running operations in manufacturing facilities (13:37) - Did you ever come across any SMB’s that would’ve existed as suppliers within manufacturing plants that interested you? (16:43) - Running Pillar Health Group  (18:51) - The explosive growth of the three branches of Pillar (20:30) - How similar are the three businesses? (22:46) - What does your current day-to-day look like? (25:33) - What adjustments are you looking to make in your role for 2022? (27:31) - Do you do any exercise that helps you decide what needs to be delegated? (29:37) - Thoughts on grocery delivery (30:57) - Search Investment Group (32:17) - SIG’s program for funding self-funded searchers (35:25) - Is there a step-up in any expenditure you make when helping the searcher (36:45) - What’s the reception been like from searchers? (37:53) - What personality tests have you found to be most effective when interviewing potential searchers? (41:12) - What college class would you teach if it could be about anything? (41:44) - What’s a strongly held belief you’ve changed your mind on? (43:32) - Have you found any correlation between a searcher’s experience in an industry to their success in that industry? (45:55) - Warren Buffet’s annual shareholder meeting (47:10) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen?

My guest on this episode is Eric Friend. I reached out to Eric after seeing him talking on Twitter about his family’s printing business Friend Paper, which was founded in 1908 in Zion, Illinois, by Eric's great grandfather. As a print publisher through our quarterly publication called the Operator's Handbook, I was curious to hear what ideas he had on using print as a content medium. It turns out he's an even bigger print publishing nerd than I am, and we hit it off immediately. I forgot to hit the record button during our first phone call, but Eric agreed to be on the podcast to share more about his family business and print as an under-loved medium. Eric shares his journey from investment banking to his fourth-generation family printing business, challenges inherent in family businesses, the rebranding effort, and how companies today can use print to stand out from their competitors with customers and create unique experiences. We also spend quite some time nerding out about print publishing and the business cards from the movie American Psycho. Enjoy. Listen weekly and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: H.A. Friend & Co., Inc (Eric's Company) Eric on Twitter The Luxury Strategy by J.N. Kapferer The Best Made Company x Duluth Trading Co. Topics: (4:02) - The Catholic Church Story (10:14) - The timelessness of print media (13:36) - Eric’s background, his career in Investment Banking, and moving into the family business (31:36) - What are some ways you want to see other companies use high quality print products? (39:14) - What are some ways to communicate luxury through print? (42:49) - Challenges in the business across generations (49:31) - What are you most excited for over the next 12 months in the business? (52:27) - What college class would you teach if it could be anything? (54:20) - What’s a strongly held belief you’ve changed your mind on? (55:31) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen? (59:27) - Wrap up

John founded a professional services company in 1984 focused on energy conservation, inspections, and design work for large companies. He eventually grew the company to 43 employees and $13 million in sales and sold to Eclipse Combustion for $10 million in 2011. Since selling the business, he has taken on specific consulting projects to keep himself active and in the loop. I met John at a happy hour gathering in Akron, Ohio, of small business folks on Twitter and around Ohio. We shared a beer and chatted all things building a team, growing a business and life after a sale. His journey of being a founder and selling his business is the other side of the table from many of our podcast guests who acquired the business they run. John's story is filled with all the trials and triumphs of growing a business from scratch and creating a life changing outcome for your family. And I had a lot of fun recording this conversation. Over the course of the episode, we talk about reinventing yourself repeatedly, creating a saleable business, courage as a muscle that can be developed, and a few horror stories. Listen weekly and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Breaker, and TuneIn. Links: CEC Consultants Honeywell Combustion Safety Sales Concepts Course John Puskar Books John Puskar on YouTube John Puskar on LinkedIn Topics: (4:11) - John’s background and career (12:05) - What does an energy conservation audit look like? (13:11) - How long were you working before you could bring in a team to help you? (15:09) - Was there a point where you could accelerate the growth of your team? (24:29) - How did your day to day and the perspective of your business change when you hit that period of hyper growth? (29:03) - Courage is a muscle that can be developed over time (33:26) - John’s Pivot into creating a Sale-able business (41:32) - What changes occurred in your life after selling the business? (48:52) - Horror Stories of the business (53:59) - What college class would you teach if it could be about anything? (55:31) - What’s a strongly held belief you’ve changed your mind on? (56:59) - What’s the best business you’ve ever seen? (58:10) - Wrap up