Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Hampton Sides is a narrative historian, best-selling author, and editor-at-large for Outside magazine. Mountain & Prairie listeners probably know Hampton best from his book "Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West," but the reality is that Blood and Thunder represents only a fraction of his work. "Hellhound on His Trail," "In the Kingdom of Ice," and "Ghost Soldiers" are a few of his other notable books, not to mention countless articles for Outside, National Geographic, and other well-known magazines. Hampton is originally from Memphis, Tennessee, but now splits his time between Santa Fe, New Mexico and Colorado Springs, where he’s the Journalist in Residence at Colorado College. • This podcast is a live recording of a conversation that Hampton and I had in front of an audience at the Aspen Institute in Aspen, Colorado. This public event was part of a four-day seminar about the history of the 19th Century American West, which was hosted by the Aspen Institute's Society of Fellows. Since the overall theme of the week was the West, Hampton and I focused our conversation on "Blood and Thunder," and chatted about the many topics presented in the book: the Navajos, the life of Kit Carson, Carson’s obsession with loyalty, Manifest Destiny, historical misconceptions about the time period, Hampton’s process for researching the book, and more. There are also a few minutes of Q&A from the audience toward the end of our talk. The Aspen Institute also filmed the event, so be sure to visit the podcast webpage if you want to watch the video. • Having the opportunity to speak with one of my all-time favorite authors at such an exceptional, world-renowned institution was a real dream come true. Endless thanks to the Aspen Institute for inviting me, and the same to Hampton for being so engaging, funny, knowledgeable, and down to earth. You’re going to learn a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy listening… or watching! And if you haven’t already, you should order and read Hampton’s books as soon as possible—you won’t be disappointed. ••• VIDEO and EPISODE NOTES: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:40 - Welcome from the Aspen Institute 4:45 - Ed’s intro 6:30 - Background on Navajos 9:15 - Overview of Kit Carson 13:30 - Polarizing views of Kit Carson 14:45 - Growth of the legend of Kit Carson 20:20 - Carson and John Fremont 24:45 - The downside of Carson’s loyalty 27:45 - How to evaluate historical figures according to their time 32:30 - How Hampton researched the book 35:45 - Modern day societies attempts to right the wrongs 39:30 - Ideas for getting past today’s divisiveness 41:40 - Hampton’s book recommendations 43:50 - Heroes and mentors 47:00 - Audience Q&A 1:08:20 - Closing

Pete McBride is a National Geographic photographer, filmmaker, and writer who tells untold stories from some of the world’s wildest places. Most recently, Pete and his friend, author Kevin Fedarko, hiked the entire 800-mile length of the Grand Canyon, documenting the journey for his forthcoming book Grand Canyon: Between the River and Rim. The book is an amazing combination of breathtaking photography, adventure travelogue, and an examination of some of the conservation challenges facing the legendary national park. Given the fact that more people have stood on the moon than hiked the length of the Grand Canyon, it’s no surprise that this book is a must-read. • Growing up in Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley, Pete spent his childhood skiing, playing hockey, and working on his family's ranch. After college on the east coast, he cut his teeth in journalism at the High Country News, where he discovered his proclivity for photography. From there, he set out on a series of adventures, camera in hand, and with a lot of hard work and hustle, he eventually sold his first story to National Geographic. After traveling the world as a photojournalist and having some close calls in Somalia and on Mt. Everest, Pete decided to focus his efforts on his “backyard river”—the Colorado River. Pete seems to have found his true calling in this iconic waterway—he has combined his artistic eye, journalistic perspective, and pursuit of adventure to become one of the Colorado River’s greatest advocates. • Pete and I met up in Aspen just before he headed to the airport to catch a flight. Even though our time was limited, we managed to cover a wide range of fun topics. We dig into the details of his Grand Canyon hike, and Pete tells a scary story of coming way too close to death early in the trip. We talk about his relationship with Kevin Fedarko, and how their differing personalities complement each other well on hardcore adventures. Pete shares more about his career as a photographer, and how he sees his strong work ethic as the key to his success. Pete also gives a great overview of the challenges facing the Colorado River, and he offers some solid book recommendations for folks who want to learn more about water issues in the West. • Hopefully I’ll get Pete back on for a Part 2 at some point in the future, because as you’ll hear, there’s still plenty more to discuss. For now, I really appreciate him taking the time to chat during such a busy time and hope you all enjoy the interview. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:00 - How Pete describes his work 4:10 - Following the length of the Colorado River 5:45 - Genesis of the idea to hike the Canyon 6:20 - Grand Canyon adventure explained 7:55 - Partnership with Kevin Fedarko 11:00 - Close to death in the Canyon 12:15 - Surprises from the adventure 14:40 - The night sky at the bottom of the Canyon 17:20 - Ecology of the Canyon 19:40 - Camera gear on the trip 20:45 - Battle with hyponatremia 22:05 - New book 27:25 - Pete’s personal background 29:40 - Working at the High Country News 31:15 - First photojournalist assignment 33:00 - Talent vs hard work 35:20 - Surfing and Central America 37:00 - Photographers that Pete admires 39:40 - Conservation and the Colorado River 47:20 - Best books about water in the West

Those of you who have been listening to the podcast since the early days probably remember my first conversation with Stephen Smith. We talked for an hour and a half about his career as a professional photographer, his motorcycle adventures around South America, his time working on farms and ranches, surfing, and more. Since that conversation almost exactly two years ago, Stephen has continued to evolve as an adventurer, entrepreneur, and artist. He bought a 170-acre property in eastern Oregon, founded a plant medicine CBD company, and has continued his work as a professional freelance photographer. With all these exciting developments, I thought it was time to have him back on the podcast for round two. • Stephen has a big vision for his new endeavors, and, more importantly, he has the work ethic and risk tolerance to achieve his goals. We talk a lot about his new property, which he’s calling Crow Creek, and how he has gone about transforming a raw piece of ground into his full-time home. We also chat in detail about his CBD company ONDA Wellness, which provides all-natural plant-based relief for everything from muscle soreness to anxiety to insomnia. If you are someone who is thinking of starting your own business, or simply has an interest in outside-the-box entrepreneurship, you will learn a lot from Stephen’s story. • As you’ll hear in our conversation, Stephen is amazingly open and honest about the challenges he has encountered while pursuing these new ventures, physically, mentally, and financially. He pulls no punches when describing the difficulty of simultaneously homesteading a property, running a start-up, and freelancing, but you’ll notice that his tone remains focused and optimistic, while still being realistic. Yes, the Instagram posts of Crow Creek and Stephen’s travels around the West are stunning, but make no mistake, he’s grinding at a breakneck speed to make it all work. His journey is inspiring and real, so I know you’ll enjoy listening. • And as an added bonus, Stephen is offering a 15% discount on ONDA Wellness products to Mountain & Prairie listeners. Just use the code “ED15" at checkout, and the discount will be applied. I can’t speak highly enough about ONDA, so I encourage you to give it a try. • Thanks to Stephen for coming back on the podcast. Hope you enjoy. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/stephen-smith-2/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 - Stephen describing his new ventures 8:20 - Crow Creek described 12:00 - Awesome aspects of Oregon 15:00 - Building Crow Creek up from scratch 18:15 - Breaking his fingers 21:10 - Upcoming event with Chris Eyer 24:20 - Breaking out of the southeast 26:25 - Mentors and heroes 30:00 - On generosity 32:40 - CBD and ONDA Wellness 40:30 - Ed’s endorsement of ONDA 42:30 - More explanation of CBD 49:30 - New favorite books 51:50 - Good films 53:10 - Biggest surprise about building Crow Creek 56:55 - Best advice ever received 58:25 - Words of wisdoms for the listeners 100:45 - Connect with Stephen online

Rebecca Jewett is the executive director of Palmer Land Trust, a conservation organization committed to protecting southern Colorado’s recreational open space, working agricultural land, and stunning scenic vistas. Under Rebecca’s leadership, Palmer has moved away from traditional, decades-old land conservation methods and into a more proactive model, pursuing audacious and outside-the-box conservation strategies across a variety of landscapes. By focusing on community above all else, Palmer is finding win-win scenarios that benefit all of southern Colorado’s numerous stakeholders, from ranchers and farmers to mountain bikers and climbers, and from cities and municipalities to counties and rural areas. • Rebecca is a fifth-generation Coloradan who grew up deeply immersed in the outdoors, which instilled a passion for open space that has guided her career trajectory. After ten years in public lands-related work, she made the shift into private land conservation when she took the helm of Palmer. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Rebecca has big plans for tackling some of Colorado’s most pressing conservation issues, issues that threaten the West from ecological, economic, and community perspectives. Her enthusiasm for her work is contagious, and her ability to communicate complex issues in an engaging way is second-to-none. • Folks who follow me on social media may already know, but I was so impressed with Rebecca and the rest of the Palmer team that I recently left the ranch brokerage business and joined the organization as a full-time employee. The opportunity to apply my professional expertise in real estate and finance to some of the West’s most challenging problems was too great of an opportunity to pass up—so I’m officially a full-time Palmer staff member, Rebecca is my boss, and I couldn’t be more excited about the work ahead. • I know you’ll enjoy this conversation, because Rebecca and I cover a wide range of topics that should be of interest for anyone who loves the West. We discuss the importance of water, agriculture, open space, and recreation, and how conservation can bring together stakeholders from all of those factions. We talk about the Arkansas River basin where Palmer focuses its efforts, and how it encompasses every Colorado landscape, from 14,000-foot mountains to flat, open grasslands. Rebecca elaborates on her leadership style, and also talks about her experience being a female leader in a once male-dominated industry. She also explains some specific projects that Palmer is taking on, and how the entire Colorado land trust community collaborates toward common goals. As usual, we also cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and much more. • If you haven’t already, give Rebecca and Palmer Land Trust a follow on social media, and be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/rebecca-jewett/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - How Rebecca describes her work 4:40 - Palmer Land Trust explained 6:10 - The Arkansas River Basin 8:25 - Balancing all the conservation stakeholders 10:50 - Importance of community 13:30 - Palmer’s focus on being proactive and strategic 17:25 - Water and conservation in the Lower Arkansas Valley 20:50 - Alternative valuation for conservation 23:00 - The “dust bowl” results of drying up farmland 24:25 - Uniqueness of conserving farmland 27:45 - Water projects in southeastern CO 29:45 - Bipartisan nature of private land conservation 31:35 - Palmer’s work conserving public lands 33:45 - Rebecca’s family history in Colorado 36:25 - Colorado College 37:40 - Early career, grad school, and Rocky Mountain Field Institute 40:30 - Early outdoor experiences 41:50 - Joining Palmer Land Trust... ...visit http://mountainandprairie.com for full episode notes.

Sarah Wentzel-Fisher is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition, an innovative conservation organization devoted to building soil, biodiversity, and resilience on western working landscapes. Quivira was founded over twenty years ago by two conservationists and a rancher, all three of whom were exhausted by the divisive nature of the relationships between the agricultural and environmental communities. By putting their few differences aside and focusing on their many shared values, Quivira has led many of the West’s stakeholders toward collaborative, long-term solutions that improve western landscapes both ecologically and socially. • Sarah grew up in a small town in the Black Hills of South Dakota and learned the true value of community at an early age. As she grew older, she began to hone in on her interest in food—specifically how food and food production play such a huge role in the health and resilience of local communities. Her graduate work focused on the role of small-scale agriculture in New Mexico, and for six years she was the editor of Edible Santa Fe, a New Mexico-based magazine that covers the region’s local food scene. Her background made her a perfect fit for Quivira’s mission, and her creative mindset and understanding of agriculture have allowed her to successfully lead the organization into its next phase. • I had the pleasure of meeting Sarah here in Colorado Springs as she was on the tail end of a massive road trip through the West visiting with farmers, ranchers, and land managers. We had a fun conversation and touched on so many of the subjects that are of interest to me and to the podcast listeners. We chatted about the specifics of regenerative agriculture, and some of the misconceptions among well-meaning environmentalists around grazing as an effective method to fight climate change. Speaking of climate change, we talked about why Quivira does not hesitate to discuss climate change, even though that term can be a hot button issue among certain groups. We discussed the idea of rugged individualism, Quivira’s concept of the “Radical Center,” and the organization’s agricultural mentor program. She offered some advice for aspiring conservationists, and talked about how her creativity has served her well as a leader. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West and more. • I encourage you to visit Quivira’s website and also to check out their podcast—it’s called Down To Earth: The Planet to Plate Podcast. If you’re a fan of this podcast, odds are you’ll enjoy that one, as well. You’ll probably like it better actually. Check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, and enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/sarah-wentzel-fisher/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:20 - How Sarah describes her work 4:05 - Quivira Coalition explained 5:45 - Misconceptions of agriculture 7:15 - Sarah’s work in the local food movement 8:40 - Educational and professional background 12:30 - Sarah’s early years and appreciation for community 15:40 - The "Radical Center” 19:10 - Founding of the Quivira Coalition 21:55 - Increased collaboration on the ground 24:40 - Media portrayals of the West 26:00 - Use of the term "Climate Change” 29:55 - How Quivira measures success 30:55 - Apprenticeship program\ 33:30 - Quivira’s on-the-ground projects 35:00 - Comanche Creek project 41:40 - Transition from writer to conservation leader 43:30 - Creative practice translating into leadership 45:30 - Mentors and heroes 48:45 - Importance of being open-minded 49:30 - Best farming books 54:50 - Advice for aspiring conservationists 1:00:20 - Optimistic or pessimistic? 1:06:35 - Quivira’s annual conference 1:10:00 - Favorite books 1:12:30 - What Sarah does for fun 1:15:10 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:18:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:19:10 - Request of the listeners 1:20:15 - Connect with Quivira online and Down to Earth podcast

David Gessner is an author, a professor, and one of the leading contemporary voices on the natural world and the American West. He has written ten books, including “All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West,” which is one of my all-time favorites and was a former Mountain & Prairie Book Club selection. Thanks to his influences ranging from Henry David Thoreau to Theodore Roosevelt to Wendell Berry, David preaches the gospel of appreciating “place" and protecting our wild landscapes, public lands, and fragile Western ecosystem. • I’ve been a huge fan of David’s work for many years, and have read almost everything he has written. I cannot overstate how much his writing has helped me understand both the history and the modern-day challenges of the American West, as well as the individuals who have shaped the region. Through his masterful prose, he combines history, current events, deep personal insights, and a hilarious sense of humor into amazingly impactful books. Without his writing, my interest in land conservation would be a fraction of what it is today. • David was in Colorado conducting research for a new book focused on public lands, Bears Ears, and Theodore Roosevelt, so we met up in Boulder for our conversation. In a little over an hour, we managed to cover a wide range of topics including public lands, Stegner, Abbey, TR, the idea of “Boomers and Stickers,” and the importance of place. David described how a bout with cancer helped to change his writing style and interests, and how moving to Boulder in his thirties altered the trajectory of his life and career. We discussed his writing process, his coastal writing shack, and how his approach to writing has evolved over the years. As usual, we also touched on favorite books, films, and his most powerful outdoor experience. • Meeting David and having this conversation was a dream come true for me, so many thanks to him for taking the time to chat. There are a lot of resources and other priceless information in this episode, so be sure to check the notes for links to everything. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:48 - How David describes his work 3:45 - Where David lives 4:50 - Visit to Boulder and Western road trip 6:40 - Trip around Bears Ears 8:20 - Importance of adventure for writing 16:00 - David’s evolution toward adventure 17:05 - Bout with testicular cancer 24:00 - Lessons learned from cancer 25:45 - Lessons learned from Teddy Roosevelt 30:50 - Upcoming book centered around TR 35:50 - Personal threads that run through David’s books 37:45 - Boomers and Stickers 41:30 - Rawness of the West 43:15 - Importance of the “place” 46:10 - David’s writing shack 48:20 - How David produces so much work 52:00 - Introvert or extrovert 54:00 - Beliefs about the West that have changed over time 1:00:00 - More on the rawness of the West 1:01:15 - Recommended Abbey and Stegner books 1:05:00 - Downsides of TR 1:06:22 - Favorite books about the West 1:07:05 - Favorite films 1:08:50 - Favorite location in the West 1:09:55 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:12:50 - Request of the listeners

Daniel Vergés is an artist and graphic designer who captures the essence of life in the American West through simple yet amazingly impactful paintings and drawings. Like many of my podcast guests, Daniel grew up obsessed with all things western—but unlike previous guests, Daniel grew up and currently lives in Spain, where he works and creates western-focused art in his rural studio. His life-long love of the West was solidified during the time he spent living and working on the Zapata Ranch, a 103,000-acre cattle and bison ranch located in Colorado’s San Luis Valley. • Despite living so far from the American West now, Daniel’s deep love of and respect for the landscape, people, and history would make you think he’s been here his entire life. Sometimes those of us who live in the West can lose perspective on just what a spectacular place it is, so I enjoyed learning more about Daniel’s perspective as someone who does not physically live here yet is heavily influenced by the West's landscapes and culture on a daily basis. If you ever find yourself getting jaded about life in the West, just listen to the way he describes mountains, prairies, ranches, and bison, then take a look at his art, and you’ll snap right out of it! • Daniel and I had a wonderful conversation that covered everything from life on the Zapata Ranch to his creative process. We chatted about his childhood interest in the West and his impressions of the wide-open spaces and wildlife during his first trip to Colorado. We discussed how the West influences his art, and how he strives for simplicity in his art and life. We talked about his collaborations with other artists, such as former podcast guest Camrin Dengel, and how these partnerships fuel his creativity. Daniel also discussed how his discipline of daily drawing and his passion for creating have driven his success as an artist. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything. • And there’s one more piece of exciting news—Daniel created a special painting for the Mountain and Prairie podcast featuring my favorite animal, the bison. It’s a super-cool piece, and I’m honored that he took the time to create something so special for the podcast. We discuss it a bit during our conversation, and I loved hearing how Daniel created it. Check out the podcast webpage to see it-- I set up a little online shop where you can buy shirts and hats featuring the art. There are links on the website to everything, so go check it out! • I know you’ll enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/daniel-verges/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED 3:00 - How Daniel describes his work 3:30 - Where Daniel lives 4:50 - Daniel’s experience on the Zapata Ranch 7:40 - The West’s influence on Daniel’s art 9:00 - The timeless feeling of the West 10:45 - Teambuilding through branding and ranching 11:40 - First impressions of the West 14:00 - Memorable experience from the ranches 15:40 - Learning horses 18:20 - Daniel describes his art 20:30 - Daniel’s artistic childhood 21:30 - Learning art in university, then self-teaching 24:10 - Slow Artworks 26:10 - How Daniel pushes himself artistically 28:45 - Dealing with creative block 31:30 - Lessons learned from Costa Rica 36:25 - Collaboration with Camrin Dengel and others 38:50 - Mentors and heroes 41:05 - How Daniel’s art has changed 43:50 - Managing social media 46:00 - The podcast artwork created by Daniel 49:00 - Japanese philosophy’s influence on Daniel work 52:05 - Advice to aspiring artists 55:55 - Favorite books 58:50 - Favorite films 1:01:30 - Hobbies, music, running, roping 1:03:20 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:06:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:07:20 - Best advice 1:10:30 - Request of the listeners

Adam Foss is a world-class hunter who has transformed his passion for wildlife and wild places into a rewarding career in filmmaking and photography. Adam has been obsessed with wilderness adventure for practically his entire life. At age 24, he was the youngest person to take all four species of North American sheep with a bow, an amazing achievement for a hunter of any age. But despite this accomplishment and others, Adam is much more focused on the process of the hunt—spending challenging days in the mountains, forming long-lasting friendships, stewarding public lands, and conserving legendary big game species. • Adam was born in the Canadian Rockies and spent his youth bow hunting with his father and older brother. As he grew older, his hunting trips expanded in geography and complexity, and he has now hunted many of the world’s wildest places for some of the most renowned big game. Adam initially considered a career in wildlife biology, but decided to go the creative route instead—he and his wife are now the owners of Foss Media, a company that creates films and photography for some of the most iconic outdoor brands today. As you’ll hear, Adam is passionate about wildlife, storytelling, and conservation, but he is equally humble, grounded, and grateful for being able to do what he loves on a daily basis. • We caught up over Skype, as Adam and his wife are currently traveling around Canada and the American West working on creative projects. We had a fun conversation and managed to cover a lot in just over an hour. We discussed Adam’s childhood in Canada and the lessons he learned from hunting with his father and brother. We chatted about how Adam values the process of hunting over the end goal of taking an animal and our shared theory that hunting taps into something primal in our human DNA. We talked in detail about conservation, specifically the role of public lands in both the United States and Canada. Adam also offered some wise advice to people who want to learn to hunt but may not have a long-standing connection to the sport. And as usual, we discussed Adam’s favorite books, films, and his most powerful outdoor experience. • This was such a fun conversation, and it’s clear that Adam has thought long and hard about these issues. I really enjoyed getting to know Adam, and I think you will too. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/adam-foss/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:58 - How Adam describes his work 7:15 - Adam’s upbringing in Canada 8:50 - Hunting with his dad in the mountains 10:45 - University in British Columbia and more far reaching hunts 12:30 - Adam’s early career goals 14:30 - Lessons learned from hunting with his father 17:45 - Breaking down hunts into manageable peices 20:45 - The mental game of hunting 23:00 - Process over goals 25:45 - Adam’s love of adventure and challenges 27:35 - Influences and mentors 33:15 - Adam’s current goals for a hunt 38:00 - South America trip 39:30 - Hunting as a part of human's DNA 43:15 - Advice to new hunters 48:15 - Importance of public lands 52:15 - Thoughts on wolves and ecological balance 59:30 - Favorite books 1:02:55 - Favorite documentaries 1:05:20 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:15:00 - Connect with Adam online

Chris Eyer is a true Western polymath. He is probably best known for his work as a mule packer, in which he uses mules to transport supplies into some of Montana’s most remote wilderness areas—he documents the adventures on his extremely popular Instagram account "muledragger." But as you’ll hear in our conversation, mule packing only scratches the surface—Chris is an experienced mountaineer and climber, a former US Marine, a practicing Buddhist, a leather craftsman, and a successful electrical contractor. From his home base in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley, Chris leads a full and fascinating life, working hard and enjoying his connection to the natural world and his animals. • Chris was raised in California, and from an early age was attracted to the outdoors and adventures in wild places. On a backpacking trip during his teens, he came across a team of mules and was immediately entranced—from that moment on, he knew that he wanted to work as a mule packer. As an adult, Chris taught himself the ins and outs of mule packing, a hard-knocks method of learning that’s not for the faint of heart. But through this long and tough self-education, he established incredibly deep relationships with all of his animals-- relationships that have significantly enriched his life in many ways. • As you’d expect from someone with Chris’s diverse set of experiences, we had an extremely wide-ranging conversation. We chat about how he became a mule packer and some of the crazy and scary experiences early in his career. We cover his time in the Marines, and the lessons he learned that carry over into his daily life now. We also discuss his connection to Buddhism and his meditation practice, and how his mindful approach to life and wilderness travel keeps him and his team of animals safe in dangerous situations. Chris also explains the specifics of mules from a biological and temperamental perspective. We discuss Chris’s unique connection to legendary alpinist Conrad Anker, as well as the similarities between packing and climbing. As usual, we hit upon books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more. • There’s a ton of amazing information in this episode, so be sure the check out the episode notes. Hopefully I’ll get Chris back for a part two, because there’s still plenty to discuss. Enjoy! ••• ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:50 - How Chris describes his work 4:15 - Bitterroot Valley 6:30 - How Chris settled in the Bitterroot 8:10 - The equine “feedback loop” 8:45 - Early days riding horses 9:40 - Influenced by Conrad Anker and Alex Lowe 11:10 - First interaction with a packer 12:15 - Joining the Marines 14:00 - Studying philosophy and religious studies 16:15 - Discovering the Montana wilderness 20:10 - Lessons learned from the Marines 23:40 - Buddhism in Chris’s daily life 27:30 - Life’s constant state of change 29:30 - The way wilderness strips away people’s surface-level differences 31:30 - How to learn to meditate 34:15 - Learning the details of mule packing 36:30 - Scary early experience packing 40:30 - Detailed discussion about mules 45:10 - Misconceptions about mules 47:30 - How Chris selects his mules 50:20 - Control versus letting go 55:20 - Trip with Conrad Anker 1:00:15 - Significance of the Heart W brand 1:03:30 - Favorite books 1:06:40 - Favorite documentaries 1:07:55 - Fun activities 1:10:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:17:00 - Best advice 1:19:30 - Request of the listeners 1:20:30 - Connect with Chris online

Sarah Calhoun is the founder and owner of Red Ants Pants, a Montana-based apparel company that makes high-quality, American-made workwear for women. But Sarah’s business ventures are just the tip of the iceberg—she also started the Red Ants Pants Music Festival, which attracts world-class musicians like Dwight Yoakam and Lucinda Williams. The proceeds from the music festival support Sarah’s third venture, the Red Ants Pants Foundation, an organization dedicated to developing women’s leadership, supporting local farms and ranches, and enriching communities. It’s simply amazing that one person can do this much work! • Sarah was raised on a farm in New England, and spent her early career working as an instructor for Outward Bound. After reading Ivan Doig’s This House of Sky, she packed up and moved to Montana, where she began to turn her idea for Red Ants Pants into a reality. She learned to sew, taught herself the basics of the apparel business, and eventually moved to the small agricultural community of White Sulphur Springs, where Red Ants Pants opened for business. As you’ll hear, selling pants is just one aspect of Sarah’s larger vision—she’s using her company to build community, empower women, and bring together people of differing perspectives and backgrounds. • We had a very interesting conversation, and you’ll be blown away by Sarah’s focus, vision, and the staggering amount she has been able to accomplish. She talks about growing up in New England, and how her family helped to instill her relentless work ethic. She discusses her time teaching at Outward Bound, and how many of the lessons learned in that role have translated to her business. We chat about how the Red Ants Pants business model flies in the face of traditional MBA theories, and how her lack of business experience was actually a strength when starting the company. We also talk about how hard work in the outdoors builds self-confidence, as well as her future plans for the foundation. And as usual, we discuss impactful books, films, and the best advice she’s ever received. • This is a great episode, and I know you’ll enjoy it. There’s a lot here, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all that we discuss. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/sarah-calhoun/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:45 - How Sarah describes her work 3:55 - Sarah’s personal and professional background 6:00 - Approaching outdoor companies with the idea for Red Ants Pants 6:55 - Moving to White Sulphur Springs 8:40 - The influence of Ivan Doig’s writing 9:45 - Joining the community of White Sulphur Springs 12:00 - Importance of community for Sarah 13:10 - Sarah’s childhood career aspirations 14:20 - Outward Bound 18:00 - Laying the foundation for Red Ants Pants 20:45 - History of Sarah’s work ethic 22:00 - Weathering the financial crisis 25:10 - Sarah’s daily routines 27:45 - Lessons learned over the years 29:35 - Working to expand her comfort zone 31:20 - Red Ants Pants Music Festival 37:20 - Red Ants Pants Foundation 39:30 - Value of hard work in the outdoors 42:55 - Foundation success stories 45:45 - Future plans for the foundation 47:00 - Heroes and mentors 49:50 - Advantages of little business experience 51:00 - Favorite books 53:30 - Favorite films 54:35 - Hobbies 55:20 - Favorite international travel spots 56:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 58:00 - Favorite location in the West 58:45 - Best advice ever received 59:50 - Request of the listeners 1:00:40 - Story of the name “Red Ants Pants” 1:01:00 - Connect with Sarah online