Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, "On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle." As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside" magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more. Finally, we spend some time talking about "On Desperate Ground," which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a war history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle. Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot. This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it. Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton-2/ “On Desperate Ground” by Hampton Sides: http://a.co/d/aZBZFiO First Episode with Hampton: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/ Support the Podcast: http://mountainandprairie.com/support/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:20 - How Hampton describes his work 7:15 - Hampton’s early years 11:00 - College and history training 13:40 - Importance of discipline in writing 17:00 - The "Pain Cave” 19:00 - Publising his first book 20:20 - First job out of college 22:00 - Working at Outside 24:45 - Learning the art of structure 28:30 - Importance of characters in history 31:40 - General MacArthur 36:00 - The cold as a character in the book 40:45 - US Marines’ retreat from the reservoir 41:50 - Chairman Mao 42:40 - Lessons learned from veterans 47:40 - Favorite books 48:45 - Favorite documentaries 49:40 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors 51:40 - Best advice ever received 52:45 - Connect with Hampton online

Erik Petersen is a Montana-based photographer, filmmaker, and photojournalist whose work showcases the American West and the many ways we enjoy our wide open spaces. His most recent film, A Few Steps Further, explores the commonalities between backcountry hunting and mountain endurance sports, while highlighting the spectacular wild landscapes that make these activities possible. Historically, hunters and adventure sports enthusiasts have not always seen eye to eye, but through his film, Erik demonstrates that the two groups have much more in common than not, most notably a love for public lands, pushing one's physical limits, and hardcore adventure. • Growing up in Minnesota, Erik was an avid hunter and outdoorsman-- but with a lifelong love for Montana, he moved West the day that he graduated from college. He worked for over ten years as a newspaper photographer throughout Montana, honing his craft and learning to produce high-quality work under the pressure and deadlines of traditional print media. Eventually Erik transitioned into freelance photography, taking some initial assignments that included trips to war-torn Afghanistan and the surrounding region. Today, much of his work centers around the landscapes of the American West, and his photographs and films highlight many of the values that we celebrate time and again on this podcast—conservation, public lands, adventure sports, and interesting people who love the West. • Erik and I caught up on the day that A Few Steps Further was released to the public, so I’ve embedded it in the episode notes—be sure to check it out, you’ll love it. In addition to that film, we talk about some of his other creative work, including a film he’s currently making that explores the threat of a goldmine near Yellowstone National Park and the promising bipartisan coalition that has emerged to fight the threat. We also cover the lessons he learned from his years in photojournalism, and how he manages to balance his roles as a husband and father of two boys while running his own creative business and pursuing adventure sports such as hunting and ultra running. We also discuss his creative mentors and heroes and his favorite books and films, plus he gives some good advice on how to take better landscape photos. • Visit the episode notes for links to everything, and enjoy this fun conversation with Erik Petersen. ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/erik-petersen/ A Few Steps Further: https://vimeo.com/273008250 Support the Podcast: http://mountainandprairie.com/support/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:35 - How Erik describes his work 4:10 - A Few Steps Further explained 6:05 - Erik’s background ultra running 7:35 - Growing up in Minnesota 8:50 - Backstory of Erik’s ultra running friend in the film 11:50 - What attracts Erik to adventure and endurance sports 14:00 - Early years 16:00 - Moving to Montana 18:15 - Experience from working at a newspaper 22:20 - Transition to freelance 25:30 - Time in Afganistan and scary stories 29:10 - Public lands 33:55- Mentors and heroes 36:15 - Nuts and bolts of filmmaking 37:50 - Patagonia media grant & new film 43:30 - How he choses creative projects 48:05 - How to take better landscape photos 51:00 - Favorite books and authors 53:00 - Favorite films 54:00 - Surprising activities 55:40 - Most powerful outdoor experience 57:50 - Best advice ever received 59:15 - Request of the listeners 1:00:05 - Follow Erik online

Normally on the podcast, I introduce you to innovative individuals who are shaping the future of the American West—ranchers, writers, athletes, authors, adventurers, conservationists, entrepreneurs... pretty much anyone who’s interesting and doing important work here in the West. • But this episode is a little different. This time the tables are turned, and I’m in the hot seat, being interviewed on the local Colorado Springs podcast, The Little London Show. • A few months back, Little London Show hosts Jeff and Darcie asked me to join them to chat about my new role as Conservation Director at Palmer Land Trust, my family’s move from Boulder to Colorado Springs, and some of the lessons I’ve learned from hosting the Mountain & Prairie Podcast. I thought it was a fun conversation, and we discussed a variety of interesting topics, including public lands, Theodore Roosevelt (of course), favorite books, my journey from selling ranches to full-time conservation, and much more. • And just to be clear, I don’t think I’m an Innovator of the American West, nor do I enjoy listening to my own voice, but we covered some topics that I thought might be of interest to you guys. As usual, there are links to everything we discuss in the episode notes, so visit the website to access all of those resources. And if you have a few moments, let me know if you enjoy this format of me answering a few questions. If you do, then every so often I’ll plan on releasing episodes from other podcasts where I am the interviewee or possibly answering questions from you guys, if that would be of interest. • But no matter what, we’ll be back to the normal interviews with real innovators next week, so be on the lookout for that. Again, thanks for your support and thanks for listening. ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/bonus/ Support the Podcast: https://www.patreon.com/mountainandprairie ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED 2:30 - Introduction 3:20 - Mountain & Prairie Podcast explained 6:00 - Discussion of podcast guests 9:55 - TR and Public Lands 13:40 - Lessons learned from the podcast 16:50 - How I ended up in the West 19:45 - Transition to Colorado Springs from Boulder 22:30 - New job with Palmer 24:20 - Land conservation discussion 30:40 - Rugged individualism 33:10 - Rawness of the West 35:40 - “Your Stoke Won’t Save Us” article 40:50 - Uselessness of ultra running 42:10 - Three best books on the West

Juanita Vero is a partner at the E Bar L Ranch, a family-owned dude ranch located on the Blackfoot River, about an hour east of Missoula, Montana. The ranch was purchased and founded by Juanita’s great-grandfather and has served as a Rocky Mountain retreat for families from around the world for almost 100 years. If you’ve never visited but would like to learn more about the ranch, this conversation with Juanita is one of your only options—they don’t have a website, nor do they advertise. They serve the same clients year after year, clients who value an authentic, rustic, and tight-knit dude-ranching experience that is closely connected to the land. • But the term “dude ranch” doesn’t really do the E Bar L justice. Juanita’s family has participated in some cutting-edge conservation projects, protecting their ranch with a unique conservation easement that also allows for responsible timber management. Becoming a member of the ranch’s summer staff is also an amazing experience, and it's not uncommon for staff members to develop such a deep love of the land that they go on to careers in ranching or conservation. Juanita and her family lead by example with their business management and land stewardship practices, which seem to rub off on everyone who visits or works at the ranch. • Juanita and I connected just as she was wrapping up another successful summer season on the ranch. We had a fun conversation that covered everything from her great-grandfather’s purchase of the ranch in the early 1900s all the way up to its present day operations. We talk in detail about Juanita’s commitment to community service, and we dig into some of her work with groups such as Trout Unlimited, Montana Conservation Voters, and the Blackfoot Challenge. We also discuss her youth on the ranch, and what she learned from leaving Montana in her teens to attend an east coast boarding school. We talk about toughness, the interesting story of how her parents met, and her blind date with her now husband, which happened to be a three-day elk hunt. And as usual, we cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and more. • This was a great conversation, so I know you’ll enjoy it. Thanks again for listening. ••• More info: http://mountainandprairie.com/juanita-vero/ Support the Podcast: https://www.patreon.com/mountainandprairie ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:10 - How Juanita describes her work 5:20 - Family history of the ranch 8:00 - Motivations for her great-grandfather to move West 12:15 -Who are the ranch guests? 15:30 - Funny guest stories from the ranch 18:10 - Growing up on the ranch 21:00 - Description of the ranch 22:10 - Conservation projects with the Nature Conservancy 31:10 - Juanita’s parents 35:15 - Importance of toughness 41:50 - Boarding school on the east coast 46:20 - Passion for community service and conservation 55:10 - Need for conservation to counterbalance development 1:00:15 - Importance of rural land use 1:02:30 - Favorite books 1:05:00 - 3-day blind date with her now-husband 1:06:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:09:50 - Favorite locations in the West 1:11:40 - Best advice ever received 1:13:30 - Requests of the listeners

Geoffrey Keating is a Colorado-based woodworker whose dedication to exquisite craftsmanship and creative design have made him one of today's most sought-after furniture makers. But creating furniture is just a small part of his interesting life story—Geoffrey has also worked as a mechanic on a professional motocross team and holds two graduate degrees in theology, one from Yale and one from Notre Dame. He discovered his talent for woodworking about ten years ago while still in graduate school, and soon decided to go all in on building a career as a professional craftsman. • Geoffrey has a unique ability to understand and respect the past, while maintaining a commitment to a sustainable future. He uses reclaimed or responsibly sourced wood to create his furniture, and all of his work is built to last—he expects each piece to be passed on from one generation to the next. His workshop and home are in a beautiful 1897 building that was formerly a grocery store—he and his wife have fully repurposed the historical space to be their growing family’s base of operations. And as you’ll hear, Geoffrey’s study of history and theology plays a huge role in his design ethic and commitment to sustainability. • We met up at Geoffrey’s shop which is located just a block north of Colorado College in Colorado Springs. As you’d expect from someone with Geoffrey’s interesting background, we had a fun and wide-ranging conversation. We discuss his family’s history as craftsmen, and how he is the fifth generation to make a living working with wood. We talk about his transition from academia to woodworking, and how he managed to get his business off the ground in the early days. We chat about his commitment to quality, and how he balances his artistic goal of perfection with the economic realities of running a business. And we touch on his daily routines and techniques he uses to avoid the creative blocks that arise from time to time. As usual, we also cover his favorite books, most powerful outdoor experience, and more. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/geoffrey-keating/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:45- How Geoffrey describes his work 3:15 - Geoffrey describes his furniture 4:55 - Family history of woodworking 5:45 - Racing motorcycles and working as mechanic 6:45 - Teaching and theology 8:45 - Transition from theology to woodworking 11:15 - Starting the business 14:15 - The formation of Geoffrey’s style 14:50 - Dealing with the quest for perfection 18:15 - The business of woodworking 19:55 - History of his workshop 20:55 - Living in the West 22:15 - Life in Colorado Springs 23:55 - Commitment to sustainability 26:10 - Types of wood 27:00 - Mentors and books 29:45 - Dealing with distraction 32:35 - Goal versus process 33:45 - Dealing with creative block 35:25 - Life lessons from woodworking 36:55 - Talent versus work ethic 38:25 - Advice for woodworkers 42:25 - Favorite books 45:15 - Favorite films 46:45 - Hobbies 47:15 - Most powerful outdoor experience 50:15 - Favorite location 50:55 - Best advice ever received? 52:10 - Request of the listeners 53:05 - Connect with Geoffrey online

Hampton Sides is a narrative historian, best-selling author, and editor-at-large for Outside magazine. Mountain & Prairie listeners probably know Hampton best from his book "Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West," but the reality is that Blood and Thunder represents only a fraction of his work. "Hellhound on His Trail," "In the Kingdom of Ice," and "Ghost Soldiers" are a few of his other notable books, not to mention countless articles for Outside, National Geographic, and other well-known magazines. Hampton is originally from Memphis, Tennessee, but now splits his time between Santa Fe, New Mexico and Colorado Springs, where he’s the Journalist in Residence at Colorado College. • This podcast is a live recording of a conversation that Hampton and I had in front of an audience at the Aspen Institute in Aspen, Colorado. This public event was part of a four-day seminar about the history of the 19th Century American West, which was hosted by the Aspen Institute's Society of Fellows. Since the overall theme of the week was the West, Hampton and I focused our conversation on "Blood and Thunder," and chatted about the many topics presented in the book: the Navajos, the life of Kit Carson, Carson’s obsession with loyalty, Manifest Destiny, historical misconceptions about the time period, Hampton’s process for researching the book, and more. There are also a few minutes of Q&A from the audience toward the end of our talk. The Aspen Institute also filmed the event, so be sure to visit the podcast webpage if you want to watch the video. • Having the opportunity to speak with one of my all-time favorite authors at such an exceptional, world-renowned institution was a real dream come true. Endless thanks to the Aspen Institute for inviting me, and the same to Hampton for being so engaging, funny, knowledgeable, and down to earth. You’re going to learn a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy listening… or watching! And if you haven’t already, you should order and read Hampton’s books as soon as possible—you won’t be disappointed. ••• VIDEO and EPISODE NOTES: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:40 - Welcome from the Aspen Institute 4:45 - Ed’s intro 6:30 - Background on Navajos 9:15 - Overview of Kit Carson 13:30 - Polarizing views of Kit Carson 14:45 - Growth of the legend of Kit Carson 20:20 - Carson and John Fremont 24:45 - The downside of Carson’s loyalty 27:45 - How to evaluate historical figures according to their time 32:30 - How Hampton researched the book 35:45 - Modern day societies attempts to right the wrongs 39:30 - Ideas for getting past today’s divisiveness 41:40 - Hampton’s book recommendations 43:50 - Heroes and mentors 47:00 - Audience Q&A 1:08:20 - Closing

Pete McBride is a National Geographic photographer, filmmaker, and writer who tells untold stories from some of the world’s wildest places. Most recently, Pete and his friend, author Kevin Fedarko, hiked the entire 800-mile length of the Grand Canyon, documenting the journey for his forthcoming book Grand Canyon: Between the River and Rim. The book is an amazing combination of breathtaking photography, adventure travelogue, and an examination of some of the conservation challenges facing the legendary national park. Given the fact that more people have stood on the moon than hiked the length of the Grand Canyon, it’s no surprise that this book is a must-read. • Growing up in Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley, Pete spent his childhood skiing, playing hockey, and working on his family's ranch. After college on the east coast, he cut his teeth in journalism at the High Country News, where he discovered his proclivity for photography. From there, he set out on a series of adventures, camera in hand, and with a lot of hard work and hustle, he eventually sold his first story to National Geographic. After traveling the world as a photojournalist and having some close calls in Somalia and on Mt. Everest, Pete decided to focus his efforts on his “backyard river”—the Colorado River. Pete seems to have found his true calling in this iconic waterway—he has combined his artistic eye, journalistic perspective, and pursuit of adventure to become one of the Colorado River’s greatest advocates. • Pete and I met up in Aspen just before he headed to the airport to catch a flight. Even though our time was limited, we managed to cover a wide range of fun topics. We dig into the details of his Grand Canyon hike, and Pete tells a scary story of coming way too close to death early in the trip. We talk about his relationship with Kevin Fedarko, and how their differing personalities complement each other well on hardcore adventures. Pete shares more about his career as a photographer, and how he sees his strong work ethic as the key to his success. Pete also gives a great overview of the challenges facing the Colorado River, and he offers some solid book recommendations for folks who want to learn more about water issues in the West. • Hopefully I’ll get Pete back on for a Part 2 at some point in the future, because as you’ll hear, there’s still plenty more to discuss. For now, I really appreciate him taking the time to chat during such a busy time and hope you all enjoy the interview. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:00 - How Pete describes his work 4:10 - Following the length of the Colorado River 5:45 - Genesis of the idea to hike the Canyon 6:20 - Grand Canyon adventure explained 7:55 - Partnership with Kevin Fedarko 11:00 - Close to death in the Canyon 12:15 - Surprises from the adventure 14:40 - The night sky at the bottom of the Canyon 17:20 - Ecology of the Canyon 19:40 - Camera gear on the trip 20:45 - Battle with hyponatremia 22:05 - New book 27:25 - Pete’s personal background 29:40 - Working at the High Country News 31:15 - First photojournalist assignment 33:00 - Talent vs hard work 35:20 - Surfing and Central America 37:00 - Photographers that Pete admires 39:40 - Conservation and the Colorado River 47:20 - Best books about water in the West

Those of you who have been listening to the podcast since the early days probably remember my first conversation with Stephen Smith. We talked for an hour and a half about his career as a professional photographer, his motorcycle adventures around South America, his time working on farms and ranches, surfing, and more. Since that conversation almost exactly two years ago, Stephen has continued to evolve as an adventurer, entrepreneur, and artist. He bought a 170-acre property in eastern Oregon, founded a plant medicine CBD company, and has continued his work as a professional freelance photographer. With all these exciting developments, I thought it was time to have him back on the podcast for round two. • Stephen has a big vision for his new endeavors, and, more importantly, he has the work ethic and risk tolerance to achieve his goals. We talk a lot about his new property, which he’s calling Crow Creek, and how he has gone about transforming a raw piece of ground into his full-time home. We also chat in detail about his CBD company ONDA Wellness, which provides all-natural plant-based relief for everything from muscle soreness to anxiety to insomnia. If you are someone who is thinking of starting your own business, or simply has an interest in outside-the-box entrepreneurship, you will learn a lot from Stephen’s story. • As you’ll hear in our conversation, Stephen is amazingly open and honest about the challenges he has encountered while pursuing these new ventures, physically, mentally, and financially. He pulls no punches when describing the difficulty of simultaneously homesteading a property, running a start-up, and freelancing, but you’ll notice that his tone remains focused and optimistic, while still being realistic. Yes, the Instagram posts of Crow Creek and Stephen’s travels around the West are stunning, but make no mistake, he’s grinding at a breakneck speed to make it all work. His journey is inspiring and real, so I know you’ll enjoy listening. • And as an added bonus, Stephen is offering a 15% discount on ONDA Wellness products to Mountain & Prairie listeners. Just use the code “ED15" at checkout, and the discount will be applied. I can’t speak highly enough about ONDA, so I encourage you to give it a try. • Thanks to Stephen for coming back on the podcast. Hope you enjoy. ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/stephen-smith-2/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 - Stephen describing his new ventures 8:20 - Crow Creek described 12:00 - Awesome aspects of Oregon 15:00 - Building Crow Creek up from scratch 18:15 - Breaking his fingers 21:10 - Upcoming event with Chris Eyer 24:20 - Breaking out of the southeast 26:25 - Mentors and heroes 30:00 - On generosity 32:40 - CBD and ONDA Wellness 40:30 - Ed’s endorsement of ONDA 42:30 - More explanation of CBD 49:30 - New favorite books 51:50 - Good films 53:10 - Biggest surprise about building Crow Creek 56:55 - Best advice ever received 58:25 - Words of wisdoms for the listeners 100:45 - Connect with Stephen online

Rebecca Jewett is the executive director of Palmer Land Trust, a conservation organization committed to protecting southern Colorado’s recreational open space, working agricultural land, and stunning scenic vistas. Under Rebecca’s leadership, Palmer has moved away from traditional, decades-old land conservation methods and into a more proactive model, pursuing audacious and outside-the-box conservation strategies across a variety of landscapes. By focusing on community above all else, Palmer is finding win-win scenarios that benefit all of southern Colorado’s numerous stakeholders, from ranchers and farmers to mountain bikers and climbers, and from cities and municipalities to counties and rural areas. • Rebecca is a fifth-generation Coloradan who grew up deeply immersed in the outdoors, which instilled a passion for open space that has guided her career trajectory. After ten years in public lands-related work, she made the shift into private land conservation when she took the helm of Palmer. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Rebecca has big plans for tackling some of Colorado’s most pressing conservation issues, issues that threaten the West from ecological, economic, and community perspectives. Her enthusiasm for her work is contagious, and her ability to communicate complex issues in an engaging way is second-to-none. • Folks who follow me on social media may already know, but I was so impressed with Rebecca and the rest of the Palmer team that I recently left the ranch brokerage business and joined the organization as a full-time employee. The opportunity to apply my professional expertise in real estate and finance to some of the West’s most challenging problems was too great of an opportunity to pass up—so I’m officially a full-time Palmer staff member, Rebecca is my boss, and I couldn’t be more excited about the work ahead. • I know you’ll enjoy this conversation, because Rebecca and I cover a wide range of topics that should be of interest for anyone who loves the West. We discuss the importance of water, agriculture, open space, and recreation, and how conservation can bring together stakeholders from all of those factions. We talk about the Arkansas River basin where Palmer focuses its efforts, and how it encompasses every Colorado landscape, from 14,000-foot mountains to flat, open grasslands. Rebecca elaborates on her leadership style, and also talks about her experience being a female leader in a once male-dominated industry. She also explains some specific projects that Palmer is taking on, and how the entire Colorado land trust community collaborates toward common goals. As usual, we also cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and much more. • If you haven’t already, give Rebecca and Palmer Land Trust a follow on social media, and be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/rebecca-jewett/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - How Rebecca describes her work 4:40 - Palmer Land Trust explained 6:10 - The Arkansas River Basin 8:25 - Balancing all the conservation stakeholders 10:50 - Importance of community 13:30 - Palmer’s focus on being proactive and strategic 17:25 - Water and conservation in the Lower Arkansas Valley 20:50 - Alternative valuation for conservation 23:00 - The “dust bowl” results of drying up farmland 24:25 - Uniqueness of conserving farmland 27:45 - Water projects in southeastern CO 29:45 - Bipartisan nature of private land conservation 31:35 - Palmer’s work conserving public lands 33:45 - Rebecca’s family history in Colorado 36:25 - Colorado College 37:40 - Early career, grad school, and Rocky Mountain Field Institute 40:30 - Early outdoor experiences 41:50 - Joining Palmer Land Trust... ...visit http://mountainandprairie.com for full episode notes.

Sarah Wentzel-Fisher is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition, an innovative conservation organization devoted to building soil, biodiversity, and resilience on western working landscapes. Quivira was founded over twenty years ago by two conservationists and a rancher, all three of whom were exhausted by the divisive nature of the relationships between the agricultural and environmental communities. By putting their few differences aside and focusing on their many shared values, Quivira has led many of the West’s stakeholders toward collaborative, long-term solutions that improve western landscapes both ecologically and socially. • Sarah grew up in a small town in the Black Hills of South Dakota and learned the true value of community at an early age. As she grew older, she began to hone in on her interest in food—specifically how food and food production play such a huge role in the health and resilience of local communities. Her graduate work focused on the role of small-scale agriculture in New Mexico, and for six years she was the editor of Edible Santa Fe, a New Mexico-based magazine that covers the region’s local food scene. Her background made her a perfect fit for Quivira’s mission, and her creative mindset and understanding of agriculture have allowed her to successfully lead the organization into its next phase. • I had the pleasure of meeting Sarah here in Colorado Springs as she was on the tail end of a massive road trip through the West visiting with farmers, ranchers, and land managers. We had a fun conversation and touched on so many of the subjects that are of interest to me and to the podcast listeners. We chatted about the specifics of regenerative agriculture, and some of the misconceptions among well-meaning environmentalists around grazing as an effective method to fight climate change. Speaking of climate change, we talked about why Quivira does not hesitate to discuss climate change, even though that term can be a hot button issue among certain groups. We discussed the idea of rugged individualism, Quivira’s concept of the “Radical Center,” and the organization’s agricultural mentor program. She offered some advice for aspiring conservationists, and talked about how her creativity has served her well as a leader. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West and more. • I encourage you to visit Quivira’s website and also to check out their podcast—it’s called Down To Earth: The Planet to Plate Podcast. If you’re a fan of this podcast, odds are you’ll enjoy that one, as well. You’ll probably like it better actually. Check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, and enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/sarah-wentzel-fisher/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:20 - How Sarah describes her work 4:05 - Quivira Coalition explained 5:45 - Misconceptions of agriculture 7:15 - Sarah’s work in the local food movement 8:40 - Educational and professional background 12:30 - Sarah’s early years and appreciation for community 15:40 - The "Radical Center” 19:10 - Founding of the Quivira Coalition 21:55 - Increased collaboration on the ground 24:40 - Media portrayals of the West 26:00 - Use of the term "Climate Change” 29:55 - How Quivira measures success 30:55 - Apprenticeship program\ 33:30 - Quivira’s on-the-ground projects 35:00 - Comanche Creek project 41:40 - Transition from writer to conservation leader 43:30 - Creative practice translating into leadership 45:30 - Mentors and heroes 48:45 - Importance of being open-minded 49:30 - Best farming books 54:50 - Advice for aspiring conservationists 1:00:20 - Optimistic or pessimistic? 1:06:35 - Quivira’s annual conference 1:10:00 - Favorite books 1:12:30 - What Sarah does for fun 1:15:10 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:18:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:19:10 - Request of the listeners 1:20:15 - Connect with Quivira online and Down to Earth podcast