Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

If you're a long-time Mountain & Prairie listener, then I'm sure you've heard me reference the author and historian Peter Stark. He's written some of the most memorable books I've ever read, including one of my all-time favorites about the early history of the western United States– a thrilling tale of adventure and exploration called "Astoria: John Jacob Astor and Thomas Jefferson's Lost Pacific Empire: A Story of Wealth, Ambition, and Survival." Peter has also spent years working as a correspondent for Outside and has written extensively for magazines including Smithsonian, Men's Journal, The New Yorker, and more. - I've been a fan of Peter's for more than twenty years, so when I was offered the chance to chat with him, I jumped at the opportunity. The focus of this conversation is Peter's newest project, an e-and-audio book titled "Sins of the Founding Father: George Washington, the Indigenous Tribes, and the Decisions that Shaped America's Future." It's an in-depth exploration of an often-overlooked battle in 1791 between American troops and Indigenous tribes– a violent fight that was decisively won by the Native Americans, and resulted in three times more American deaths than the Battle of Little Big Horn. The e-book also covers the life and personality of George Washington, America's insatiable hunger for land, and the United States' uncertain future in the years just after the Revolutionary War. - You might be wondering, what does George Washington have to do with the present-day American West? Back then, the term "American West" described a region now known as Ohio. Well, as you'll hear in this conversation, this specific battle set the course of action for the next hundred+ years regarding the United States' policies toward Indigenous tribes. The American's crippling defeat led Washington and other leaders to ramp up their violent tactics against Native tribes and hold nothing back in their quest to claim as much western land as possible, as quickly as possible. It's an eye-opening story that gave me a much better understanding of the ambition, egos, and economic realities that laid the foundation for the modern-day West. - "Sins of the Founding Father" is available exclusively at Scribd, and there's a link in the episode notes that will give you a free 30-day trial. Scribd is a really cool app that I've enjoyed using for e and audiobooks, so go to Scribd.com to check it all out. "Sins of the Founding Father" is a great read and at only 70 pages, you can enjoy it in one sitting. I hope you'll check it out, and I hope you enjoy this conversation. "Sins of the Founding Father" by Peter Stark "Astoria" by Peter Stark Scribd Peter Stark's website All episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/peter-stark/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 – Peter describes young George Washington 7:15 – Peter discusses Washington's lust for land acquisition 19:30 – Peter talks about how Washington's land speculation set the playbook for greedy land acquisition seen throughout US history 23:00 – Peter jumps ahead to Washington's life in 1791 40:00 – Peter talks about writing history in an engaging way 46:00 – Peter discusses his own writing process 51:15 – Peter discusses the historical parallels between our recent sociopolitical turmoil and that of the late 1700s following the Battle with No Name – or -discusses the fallout of the Battle with No Name 1:01:15 – Peter's book recommendations ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Frances B. Ashforth is an artist who specializes in drawing, printmaking, and painting. While much of her work is tied to the landscapes and rivers of the American West, she is also well known for her depictions of salt flats and coastal weather in more tropical locales. If there are two threads that bind all of Francie's work, they are her deep reverence for natural landscapes and her desire to protect them. Over the years, she has collaborated with many highly regarded conservationists to combine writing and art– first, in her "Water + Words" project, and most recently, when she created all of the art for Dylan Tomine's excellent book Headwaters. - Francie was born and raised on the east coast, into a family of artists and athletes who cultivated her obsessions with art and perpetual physical activity. Even though a childhood accident confined her to a body brace for nearly six years, Francie always pursued her passions with full enthusiasm and vigor, working hard to keep a positive attitude in the face of such a serious physical setback. But her commitment to creativity never waivered– after studying art and architecture in college, she worked professionally as both an architectural illustrator and art director for more than a decade. Eventually, Francie left her day job to focus on her own artistic endeavors, as well as her all-important role as a mother to young children. Today, Francie's work has been shown in venues from New York City to San Francisco, and she has a loyal following among galleries and collectors across the country. - Francie and I met through past podcast guest Dylan Tomine, when I had the pleasure of interviewing both of them at a live event in Brooklyn earlier this year. I was immediately impressed with Francies' art, her obsession with fly fishing and books, and her long-term commitment to melding art and conservation. So I was so thrilled when she agreed to join me on the podcast, and we managed to cover a lot. We discussed her childhood and her family's influence, and her early career that combined art and architecture. We talked about the specifics of her art, including her influences and her preferred mediums, and we talked in detail about her "Water + Words" project. We talk a lot about the book Headwaters, as well as her own love of books and reading. Francie offers a long list of excellent book recommendations, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all of those and everything else we discuss. - Huge thanks to Francie for all she does for conservation and for taking the time to chat with me. Hope you enjoy! https://francesbashforth.com/ https://www.instagram.com/frances.ashforth/ Water + Words Headwaters: The Adventures, Obsession and Evolution of a Fly Fisherman Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/frances-ashforth/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 – Francie discusses her childhood 5:30 – Francie talks about her family's creative streak 8:30 – Francie discusses an accident that impacted her childhood 19:00 – Francie talks about her college education and early career in architecture 26:15 – Francie explains her transition from professional drafting to focusing on her own art 28:55 – Francie describes her art 32:30 – Francie talks about her Water and Word Project 37:15 – Francie explains her process of adapting existing words into new, complementary art 42:45 – Francie talks about how she became involved with Dylan Tomine, Headwaters and Patagonia Books 49:15 – Francie discusses reading and the books that make up her personal "bibliography" 1:00:30 – Francie talks about what is giving her hope these days ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Mark Kenyon is an author, podcaster, conservationist, and member of the MeatEater crew. You probably know him from his excellent book "That Wild Country: An Epic Journey Through the Past, Present, and Future of America's Public Lands," the Wired to Hunt podcast, or his contributions to MeatEater's Netflix show and other video productions. To learn more about Mark and his impressive personal and professional journey, I'd encourage you to go back to our first Mountain & Prairie conversation from a few years ago, which is linked in the episode notes. - In this episode, Mark and I are doing something a little different: We're focusing exclusively on books. Earlier this year, Mark had me on his podcast to discuss our favorite books about conservation, and we both received excellent feedback on that episode. You can find a link to that discussion in the notes. So we decided to have another book conversation, this time focusing on some of our favorite books about the American West. Both Mark and I are voracious readers who share a love of history, conservation, and adventure, so I'm always excited to hear Mark's recommendations and thoughts on a wide range of titles. - The episode starts out with a brief catch-up on Mark's summer adventures and his current work with MeatEater, and then we dive into the books. We each picked five of our all-time favorites to discuss, and, as you'd expect, we veer off into lots of tangentially related titles and subjects. This is an episode where you'll definitely want to check out the episode notes, because there are links to dozens of books, authors, films, and other resources. Mark and I could've easily talked for three or four hours, but we had to keep the conversation relatively short because of tight schedules. However, we're going to try and make these book conversations a regular occurrence on both of our podcasts– so if you like this format, stay tuned for more! - If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to check out Mark's podcast or follow him on social media– he's a smart, thoughtful, hard-working guy that brings tons of value to the world of conservation and outdoor recreation. Please enjoy the episode, and if you do, please share it with a few friends. --- Mark Kenyon Mark & Ed's first book discussion - 10 Conservation Books Full episode notes & links: https://mountainandprairie.com/10-books-west/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 - Mark talks about his summer with his family 11:30 - Mark discusses his plans for Meat Eater in the fall 13:15 - Mark talks about the incredible experiences that constitute his job 14:30 - Mark and Ed discuss their five favorite American West conservation books (see full notes on the episode's webpage) starting with Desert Solitaire 27:30 - Blood and Thunder 33:15 - Empire of the Summer Moon 34:45 - Blood Meridian 36:15 - The Course of Empire and 39:15 - Dreams of Eldorado 45:15 - The Emerald Mile 51:00 - The Oregon Trail 54:45 - Leave It As It Is 59:00 - Great Plains 1:03:15 - Badlands 1:05:45 - American Zion --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Nate Schweber is an award-winning journalist whose work has been featured in the New York Times, ProPublica, Anthony Bourdain's Parts Unknown, and more. He's also the author of the new book "This America of Ours: Bernard and Avis DeVoto and the Forgotten Fight to Save the Wild," which was published in early July 2022. If you're looking for an engaging and entertaining history book that highlights an often-overlooked era of conservation in the American West, then "This America of Ours" is your book– as you'll hear in this conversation, I thoroughly enjoyed it. - Nate is a native Montanan who grew up in Missoula and headed east to New York City as a young man to pursue a career in journalism. Despite building a successful life and career in the big city, Nate never lost his love for Montana– so he made an effort to pursue more stories linked to the people and landscapes of the American West. As he studied and explored the West with his journalist's eye, he discovered the writings of Bernard DeVoto and was quickly captivated. Fast forward to today, and he has written an amazing book about Bernard and his wife Avis, and how together they were one of the most important and effective forces for conservation in the early 20th century. - I knew I was going to enjoy "This America of Ours," but it surpassed all of my lofty expectations. While I had definitely heard of the DeVotos, I had no idea of their influence and fearlessness, especially as they faced off against powerful forces that were attempting to sell off vast tracts of our public lands. Nate and I dig into all aspects of the DeVotos' lives and historical importance, both individually and as a power couple. We talk about why Nate became so obsessed with the DeVotos, and how the DeVotos bridged the gap between Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt's conservation legacies and the modern-day environmental movement. We discuss the parallels between the public lands battles of today and those of the early 20th century, and how reading history helps us to better understand and process today's current events. Nate also offers up tons of excellent book recommendations, so be sure to check out the notes for a list of all the topics we discuss and links to everything. - A huge thanks to Nate for writing such an enlightening book and for taking the time to join me for a conversation. I hope you enjoy. --- Nate Schweber "This America of Ours: Bernard and Avis DeVoto and the Forgotten Fight to Save the Wild" by Nate Schweber Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/nate-schweber/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED 4:00 - How the DeVotos captured Nate's attention 8:45 - Nate describes the DeVotos' personalities 13:30 - Nate explains how a flood galvanized Bernard DeVoto's passionate conservation ethic 20:00 - The role road trips played in the DeVotos' lives and work 27:00 - Nate discusses how learning the historical and legal backdrop for conservation colors his understanding of the challenges surrounding conservation and public lands now 32:00 - Nate introduces some of the tangles the DeVotos had with the FBI following accusations that the couple were communists 38:00 - Nate discusses an important friendship for the DeVotos: Julia Child 44:00 - Nate dives into his process of researching the DeVotos 49:45 - Nate talks about his career and how he ended up moving from Missoula, MT to NY City, and why he stays there now 55:07 - Ed and Nate discuss contradictions in each personality and how they make people more interesting 58:00 - Nate recommends some books 1:03:30 - Nate's parting words of wisdom --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Pete McBride is an award-winning photographer and filmmaker whose work is regularly featured by National Geographic, Smithsonian, The Nature Conservancy, and other renowned institutions. His most recent book is titled "Seeing Silence: The Beauty of the World's Most Quiet Places," and it features photographs and stories from more than two decades of his adventures on all seven continents. "Seeing Silence" uses stunning imagery and engaging storytelling to highlight the importance of places free of man-made noise, and it educates the reader on just how quickly silence is disappearing from the world. - For more than twenty years, Pete has been using his skills as a storyteller to inspire action on a wide variety of conservation issues. He has highlighted the multitude of threats facing the Grand Canyon in both his documentary "Into the Grand Canyon" and his book "Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim." He's also documented the West's ongoing water crisis by focusing on the myriad of challenges affecting the Colorado River basin–making the important but sometimes confusing topic of water in the West accessible to a broader audience. And now, with "Seeing Silence," he's turned his focus to noise pollution and natural sounds, and I personally learned a lot from the book and this conversation. - This is Pete's second appearance on the podcast, so if you'd like to learn more about his personal backstory and adventures in the Grand Canyon, you can find a link to that conversation in the episode notes. In this conversation, we go deep into Pete's new obsession with silence and natural sounds, and why noise pollution is such a critical conservation issue. We started out talking about Pete's expedition to South Georgia Island back in March of 2020 and how he had to make a hasty escape from the island when Covid descended on the world. We talk about his experience during Covid, and how the pandemic shifted his interests from the visual to the auditory. We discuss how artificial noise affects wildlife, why Pete feels a responsibility not to share specific wilderness locations on social media, how Pete's family keeps him grounded, the larger purpose that drives his professional work, his recent photography work in Lake Powell, and we also included some sounds that Pete recorded during his South Georgia Island expedition. - It was great to chat with Pete again, and I'd encourage you to check out "Seeing Silence"– it's an excellent book. And be sure the check out the episode notes for a complete list of all the topics we discussed and links to everything. Thanks to Pete for taking the time, and thanks to you for listening. I hope you enjoy. --- Pete McBride Seeing Silence: The Beauty of the World's Most Quiet Places Pete's first M&P episode Complete episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride-2/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - Where Pete was during the start of the pandemic 5:30 - Thousands of King Penguins 10:15 - How Pete, as an outgoing person, adjusted from a career of traveling for films to pandemic isolation 13:30 - An example that Pete observed of how pandemic silence affected wildlife 23:30 - Pete reflects on shifting his focus from more visual media to auditory 26:45 - Pete discusses a search for quiet and how human-made sound and industry impacts wildlife 32:30 - Pete and Ed discuss the impact of human-caused light pollution along with the impacts sound has on humans 36:45 - Pete describes why he became interested in sound 40:00 - Pete discusses the responsibility he feels as a photographer to not inspire destructive over-visitation of beautiful natural places 44:45 - Pete discusses how he and his family keep him humble and grounded despite widespread attention 49:45 - Pete talks about weaving adventure into work for conservation, and follows up on our first conversation regarding the state of water in the western US 59:30 - Pete gives us some conservation optimism --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Rick Ridgeway is a world-renowned mountaineer and adventurer who has devoted his life to exploring some of the wildest regions of Planet Earth– from the summit of K2 to the jungles of Borneo to the mountain ranges of the American West and almost everywhere in between. Rick is also a highly regarded author, director, and producer who has written seven books and created numerous films and television shows. His newest book is titled "Life Lived Wild: Adventures at the Edge of the Map,"-- an excellent memoir that dives deep into his adventures, friendships, environmental advocacy, and pursuit of purpose-driven work. - Rick was born and raised in California, and when he was a teenager, his mother gave him a subscription to National Geographic, which ignited his passion for climbing and adventure. Early in his climbing career, Rick ticked off some unbelievably difficult climbs around the world, most notably being the first American to summit K2. But as he grew older and more experienced in the mountains, he shifted his focus away from pursuing adventure for adventure's sake. Over time, he began to use his skills as an athlete and explorer to advance more purpose-driven causes such as wildlife conservation and environmental advocacy. Rick's commitment to living a purpose-driven life is beautifully detailed in his new book "Life Lived Wild," a book that I loved and highly recommend. - I had the pleasure of recording this conversation with Rick in person, just before a book signing at the Patagonia store in Denver. I have long admired Rick, and one of his earlier books played a huge role in my personal development, so it was an honor to have the opportunity to sit and talk with him for an hour. We started out discussing how and when he first began climbing and how he grew from an amateur climber into a world-class mountaineer. We talk a lot about mentorship– how he was mentored by climbing and environmental luminaries Yvon Chouinard and Doug Tompkins, and how he mentored many up-and-coming climbers, including Jimmy Chin. We talk about his commitment to taking action and being a doer, his success as an entrepreneur, and his 15-year tenure leading Patagonia's sustainability initiatives. We talk about what brings Rick hope in the face of the climate crisis, how the pandemic affected him, and, as you'd expect from such a skilled writer, Rick offers tons of excellent book recommendations. - Huge thanks to Rick for taking the time to chat and to Patagonia Books for setting it all up. Meeting Rich was really a dream come true for me. I hope you enjoy. --- Rick Ridgeway Life Lived Wild: Adventures at the Edge of the Map by Rick Ridgeway Patagonia Books Episode Notes & Links: https://mountainandprairie.com/rick-ridgeway/ --- THANK YOU: This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Ranchlands. Visit www.ranchlands.com to learn more or visit www.ranchlandsmerchantile.com for a large selection of high-quality western goods. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 6:00 - A thank you to Rick 7:30 - Rick describes the moment he knew what he wanted to do when he grew up 13:30 - Rick talks us through his transition from climbing just for fun to using climbing to inform larger causes 21:30 - Rick talks about mentorship and what inspires him to be that kind of friend to people 29:15 - Rick talks about his experiences on the second American expedition on Everest and the first American expedition on K2 with his mentor, Jim Whittaker 32:00 - Rick explains the "do" mentality of Yvon Chouinard and Doug Thompkins 36:45 - Rick talks about his career shift from owning his own business to a job at an established company (Patagonia) 44:45 - Rick discusses how he finds balance between a business's larger purpose and the details in its operation 48:30 - Rick talks about hope and climate change 56:00 - Rick talks about his lessons in exploration during the pandemic 1:00:15 - Rick's book recommendations --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Dr. Eric Arzubi is the co-founder of Frontier Psychiatry, a Montana-based medical practice that is accelerating and expanding access to high-quality psychiatric care for rural communities. - By many metrics, Montana can be described as the epicenter of the United States' mental health crisis. The large, mostly rural state is home to many vulnerable populations who are disproportionately affected by mental health concerns. And given Montana's sprawling, lightly populated landscape, easy access to specialized and high-quality mental health care has been a significant challenge. But thanks to technological advancements and increased internet access, Eric and his team have successfully used telepsychiatry to reach underserved communities throughout Montana. - Eric's path to becoming an innovator in rural medicine is an amazing, unexpected, and inspiring story. After graduating from college, he spent most of his 20s working as a Wall Street bond trader for Morgan Stanley, traveling the world and earning a great living. But despite his material success, he was unfulfilled with his career and felt a deep longing to do purpose-driven work that made the world a better place. So, at age 29, he decided to walk away from Wall Street and begin the long process of becoming a doctor– prerequisite courses, medical school, residency, and a fellowship in child psychiatry. At age 44, he landed his first job as a psychiatrist in Billings, Montana, where he fell in love with the people and place, and he began his quest to find solutions to the mental health crisis that plagues the rural West. - Mental health is a topic that is near and dear to my heart, so it was a real honor to have the opportunity to chat with Eric and learn about his innovative approach to solving such a complex societal challenge. We started out discussing his path to medicine– everything from why he decided to walk away from Wall Street to why he chose psychiatry as his specialty. We discuss the factors that have made Montana the epicenter of the mental health crisis and what makes Frontier Psychiatry so uniquely qualified to help. We discuss approaches to scaling mental health care throughout the West, how Eric's business and entrepreneurial background has helped him to find solutions to such a complex problem, and why it's important for all of us to be advocates for mental health in our own communities. He also describes one of Frontier Psychiatry's newest initiatives, a partnership with the Montana Department of Agriculture that provides free, confidential counseling to men and women working in agriculture in Montana. - Eric's life story and his current work are incredibly inspiring, so I know you'll enjoy this episode. Thanks to Eric for taking the time to talk, and thanks to you for listening. I hope you enjoy. --- Frontier Psychiatry Dr. Eric Arzubi Full Episode Notes & Links: https://mountainandprairie.com/eric-arzubi/ https://blankfoundation.org/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 – Eric describes what he was doing when he was 28 6:00 – Eric talks about his change of heart at age 29 12:00 – Eric discusses his friends' and family's reaction to his career shift, and how one staff member at Morgan Stanley gave him the courage and space to pursue his medical career 16:00 – Eric talks about how psychiatry caught his attention 21:45 – Eric explains how he ended up in Montana 32:30 – Eric talks about what makes Frontier Psychiatry special 37:30 – Eric discusses how his nontraditional career path may have helped him challenge established practices in the field of mental healthcare 41:45 – Eric talks about the balance in his work between addressing distinct issues and deep, underlying problems 48:45 – Eric discusses what gives him hope that there are scalable solutions for mental health challenges, especially in rural communities 55:00 – Eric explains the role that untrained citizens can play in advocating for/supporting mental health 1:02:45 – Eric's book recommendations 1:07:30 – Eric's parting words of wisdom --- This episode is brought to you by The Arthur M. Blank Family Foundation and its Montana-based AMB West Philanthropies, both of which embody the values-based approach to philanthropy and business of their Chairman Arthur M. Blank. --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Ed's recent interview on the excellent new podcast "GROUND WORK with Kate Kavanaugh" – This episode is a little different-- it's me being interviewed by my friend and past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest Kate Kavanaugh. If you've been listening for a while, then I'm sure you remember Kate-- she's a farmer, butcher, and all-around interesting woman who co-founded Western Daughters Butcher Shop in Denver. - Kate recently started an excellent new podcast called Ground Work, which covers a variety of interesting topics, from soil to health to books to intentional living. Kate is unbelievably smart and insightful, and there's a ton of overlap between what I'm doing with M&P and what she's doing with Ground Work, so I'd encourage you to check out all of her episodes. There's a link in the notes. - Even though I'm still confused as to why anybody would ever want to interview me, Kate did and we had a fun conversation about everything from conservation to ultra running, reading to starting a podcast. We also talk a lot about my obsession with living what Theodore Roosevelt called the Strenuous Life, and how adopting that approach to life has been life-changing for me. - And speaking of the Strenuous Life, I just launched a new section on MountainandPrairie.com devoted to The Strenuous Life and offering ways for the Mountain & Prairie community to connect and collaborate in the spirit of "Living Strenuously." Rather than try to explain it in these episode notes, I'd encourage you to click over to https://mountainandprairie.com/strenuous-life/ to learn more about all the details. - Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoy this and all of Kate's podcast episodes. And I hope you'll be able to join some of the M&P community in our commitment to living the Strenuous Life. Enjoy! – Kate's GROUND WORK podcast Strenuous Living on Mountain & Prairie: https://mountainandprairie.com/strenuous-life/ Mountain & Prairie on Strava Mountain & Prairie on Goodreads Annual Strenuous Life Retreat Kate's M&P episode Live Strenuously Merch! --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Land Tawney is the President and CEO of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, one of North America's leading and most effective advocates for wild public lands, waters, and wildlife. Founded around a campfire in 2004, BHA uses education, nonpartisan political advocacy, stewardship initiatives, and stakeholder coalitions to ensure the protection of our public lands for generations to come. As its name implies, BHA is an organization that works on behalf of sportsmen, but you don't have to be a hardcore hunter or fisherman to benefit from its work. I'm a lot of things, but a hardcore hunter is not one of them– yet, I'm a proud member of BHA and a super-fan of all that it has accomplished. - Land was born and raised in Montana, the son of two highly respected conservationists who instilled in him a deep reverence for wild places and the importance of protecting them. From an early age, Land was hunting, fishing, and spending time around his parents' friends and colleagues, many of whom were well-known, renowned conservationists. When Land was in college, his father passed away, which fortified his desire to devote all of his professional energy to conserving the wild places that have always meant so much to his family. After successful stints at several notable conservation organizations, Land took the helm of BHA in 2013. Since then, he has led and grown the organization into one of the country's leading voices for sportsmen and public land protectors. - When Land and I connected for this conversation, he was hard at work preparing for the upcoming BHA Rendezvous, which is taking place May 12-14 in Missoula, Montana. We discuss all of the details of that premiere conservation event, and you can find additional information in the notes and on this episode's webpage. And we also covered a ton of interesting and important topics, including: the importance of advocating for conservation in Washington, DC; how apathy can be a huge threat to our wild lands; the slippery-slope threat of transferring federal lands to state or private entities; the importance of remaining optimistic in the face of challenges; how BHA helps and encourages new hunters; the importance of BHA's state chapters and local leadership; Land's personal and professional conservation journey; and, of course, he offers tons of great book recommendations. - A huge thanks to Land for joining me during such a busy time of year. And I encourage all of you to check out BHA's membership options and consider supporting them if you are so inclined. I deal with conservation organizations all day in both my podcast and conservation work, and BHA is the best of the best. Hope you enjoy this episode. --- Backcountry Hunters and Anglers BHA 2022 Rendevous Episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/land-tawney/ --- THANK YOU: This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Ranchlands. Visit www.ranchlands.com to learn more or visit www.ranchlandsmerchantile.com for a large selection of high-quality western goods. --- EVENT: To learn more about the 5/18/22 Patagonia Brooklyn event, visit the event page for information and to RSVP. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 6:30 - Land talks about Backcountry Hunters and Anglers 12:30 - Land discusses his plan for when he advocates for conservation issues in DC 17:15 - Land describes what he thinks is the greatest threat to public lands that folks should be aware of 20:15 - Land explains his concern with transferring ownership of public lands to state or private entities 23:30 - Land talks about how he maintains a healthy level of skepticism in his advocacy work without becoming jaded 27:15 - Land explains the function and importance of BHA's state chapters 30:15 - Land talks about BHA programs that encourage new hunters and anglers 36:15 - Land talks about his childhood and the role that the outdoors played in it 40:45 - Land discusses his first job out of college 44:15 - Land talks about the common threads he noticed in his conservation mentors 48:15 - Land describes the BHA Rendezvous 58:15 - Land's book recommendations --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Betsy Gaines Quammen is a historian and conservationist, and she's also the author of the excellent book "American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, & Public Lands in the West." Betsy has enjoyed a long career in the conservation world, working on issues ranging from grizzly bears in the West to fish in Mongolia to wildlife in East Africa. She also holds a doctorate in Environmental History from Montana State University, where her dissertation focused on the Mormon settlement of the West and public land conflicts. With such a depth of expertise on such a wide range of subjects, I was thrilled to have Betsy join me for a conversation about her book, public lands, and the West. - "American Zion" has been recommended to me numerous times since it was published in early 2020. Many of my most knowledgeable friends told me it was a must-read for anyone trying to make sense of the present-day threats to public lands here in the West. Well, I finally read it a few weeks ago, and I can confirm that my friends were correct– the book provided me with much-needed, nuanced context for understanding both specific public lands controversies and broader political threats. It also provided fascinating insights into the mindsets and goals of the Bundy family– the people behind the infamous occupation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge and the Battle of Bunkerville. I was also fascinated by the beliefs of the Bundys and their ancestors, and how their ideas about everything from religious texts to the US Constitution have influenced public discourse in the West and beyond. - Betsy and I connected last week and had a fun and educational conversation about everything from her career as a conservationist to her in-person interactions with the Bundy family. We started out discussing how she became interested in the West and why the Morman settlement of the West became the focus of her work. We discuss the Mormon prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and how and why Mormons settled in the West. We talked about how perceived persecution by the US government has served as a faith-building experience for the Bundys and their followers, and whether or not the Bundys truly believe the prophesies that they preach. We discuss the Sagebrush Rebellion, the Malheur takeover, the Battle of Bunkerville, and how Betsy thinks about her personal safety when writing about potentially violent people. She also talks about how "American Zion" was positively received by her Mormon friends, describes her current book project, and recommends tons of books that you'll want to check out. Links to everything are in the episode notes. - It was great to finally have the opportunity to chat with Betsy, and I sincerely appreciate her taking the time. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. --- Betsy Gaines Quammen American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, & Public Lands in the West Freeflow Institute (mention M&P for $100 off!) Full Episode Notes with Links: https://mountainandprairie.com/betsy-gaines-quammen/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 6:00 - Betsy reads her opening paragraph from her book American Zion 8:45 - Betsy explains how she became interested in the western US 10:00 - Betsy talks about why she began looking into Mormon history in the western states 14:45 - Betsy talks about her research and interactions regarding the Bundy family and their anti-federal government activities 22:00 - Betsy discusses the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and how that impacted many rural attitudes towards land management and the federal government 27:00 - Betsy discusses her personal interactions with Cliven Bundy 31:00 - Betsy explains the depth of the Bundy's faith and how that plays out in their political and anti-government action 31:30 – Betsy talks about the Bundys' action after she published her book and explores the differences between the Malheur and Bunkerville incidents 34:00 – Betsy talks discusses the implications of her writing for her personal safety 35:45 – Betsy explains why any public land user should care about what the Bundys are doing. 40:45 – Betsy explains how anti-Semitism and the Sagebrush Rebellion laid the groundwork for the misinformation that is rampant today 46:00 - Betsy talks about how her book was received by her Mormon friends 50:30 - Betsy discusses her current work 52:45 - Betsy's recommended books about the West 1:03:00 - Betsy's parting words of wisdom --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts