By-The-Bywater: A Podcast about All Things J.R.R. Tolkien

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: the Noldor. Also termed the Deep-elves and, in early versions of the legendarium, the Gnomes – thankfully changed given unavoidable associations – they were one of the three ethnicities of the Eldar in general, the first Children of Iluvatar. As compared to the serene Vanyar and the many generally lower-key societies of the Teleri, the Noldor were the ones most driven by the desire to create and to learn about the world in general, though these tendencies, exacerbated by Melkor in his Valinorean captivity and the internal family strife of their royal house, resulted in all the many deeds of fame in Middle-earth on the one hand but also their near total destruction and eventual fading away on the other. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, only small societies and remnants were left, casting an influence on the course of events but not directing them. What can we learn from the stories of the women of the Noldor in particular, not just Galadriel but other figures such as Fëanor’s mother Míriel and his wife Nerdanel or the Nargothrond princess Finduilas? What throughlines did Tolkien suggest in terms of how the Noldor both seemed the most human of the Elves as well as being driven by the same ambiguous creative impulses that haunted any number of beings in the legendarium? How does the decision to keep them from the center of the many arcs of The Lord of the Rings help shape the book into being the story that it is? And just how much of an obsessive creative type do you have to be to not only devise the writing system for your culture but to insist on sticking to a particular pronunciation because you’re still mad about how things ended up with your family? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Plus a bonus Galadriel-as-Carmen Miranda sketch. (The episode provides context. Sorta.) Negotiations, negotiations. The SAG-AFTRA strike has a lot of it. The new edition of the letters will be out in mid-November. Holly Ordway’s book Tolkien’s Faith. The Bandcamp Daily story on Jim Kirkwood and his early Tolkien-inspired work. Some details on Starve Acre, the new Morfydd Clark/Mat Smith folk horror film. I mean if you WANT the Tolkien Gateway definition of the Noldor… Recommending the Andy Serkis reading of The Silmarillion once more! Our episode on Galadriel. Turgon via Tolkien Gateway; relatedly, our episode on The Fall of Gondolin. Gildor Inglorion, a truly fascinating character, as is Voronwë. Míriel and Nerdanel – and they have stories that were not fully told… Glorfindel seems like he’s about to be a major character in The Lord of the Rings…and then he’s not! We discussed the Kinslaying as part of our episode on evil. Ah yes, The Shibboleth of Fëanor. Boy this is nuts. And great at the same time. Then there’s the Oath of Fëanor. Maybe review the language first before you sign a contract. Our episodes on “Leaf by Niggle” (as part of Tree and Leaf) and Smith of Wootton Major. Finduilas – again, would be good to learn more about her! See also our episode on The Children of Húrin. And yes The Wheel of Time is really good. Really! Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: The Notion Club Papers. Written in 1945 during a creative pause in completing the final third of The Lord of the Rings, The Notion Club Papers found Tolkien on familiar ground, creating a set of purported notes from regular club meetings among a group of Oxford professors much like himself and his fellow members of the famed Inklings. While not advancing beyond a couple of drafts and far from complete, the papers tell first of a professor who, due to a discussion on how spacecraft would work in science fiction, avers he has himself been able to travel in dreams through the reaches of space and meet other minds before returning to earth. One initially skeptical member over time then tells of his own unusual dream experiences, building up to a sudden moment during a massive storm where he invokes the language and imagery of the downfall of Númenor, in much the same fashion as The Lost Road did nearly a decade prior; related manuscripts found Tolkien revisiting the Númenorean story in particular, as well as speaking in detail about his invented language for the society. How does the novel’s complicated structure work creatively, if at all, and is there something there that could have been developed further in later drafts? What does it mean that Tolkien seemed most at ease exploring the possible sources of his own creativity in such a second-hand fashion, even if the means by which he did so ended up being incredibly insular? What were the contemporary sources and inspirations for this effort among his fellow Inklings and beyond, and are there any parallels he acknowledges or, perhaps notably, ignores? And who wouldn’t want to talk over the evident problems of medieval life while getting a haircut from Norman Keeps? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. This is why it’s important to check the insulation on your windows. And indeed the WGA strike did end soon after we recorded our episode. SAG strike still ongoing for the moment! More from the Lord of the Rings musical revival, and who knows where it will go… Amazon’s plans for ads for Prime Video, great. Lovely. Couldn’t agree with that more. Yup. News about the Tales Of The Shire game and we are very curious indeed! Yeah that whole Warren Beatty Dick Tracy thing. There are indeed skeletons in Stardew Valley. (The upcoming game Ned mentioned is Wytchwood.) The Notion Club Papers! We recommend at least a little caffeine before reading. Knowing a little about the Inklings will not hurt at all when it comes to the Notion Club Papers. Socratic dialogue can indeed be rollicking. Our episode on “A Secret Vice.” Thomas Pynchon is out there and is happy not to be recognized. That Hideous Strength concludes the Space Trilogy by taking a Charles Williams direction (though as Jared notes, not very successfully). If you haven’t seen Inspector Morse just ask a relative who still watches PBS a lot. (Because they’ve likely been watching Endeavour.) Interstellar is trippy, man. (In a formal Nolany way, but still.) The Great Storm of 1987 as reported on UK TV. “The Call of Cthulhu” is probably Lovecraft’s most well known story. And boy does it have problems too! C. S. Lewis’s “The Dark Tower” is a weirdly fascinating fragment, while An Experiment With Time by J. W. Dunne was a reference point for both Lewis and Tolkien in these works. Ringu aka The Ring, which of course has nothing to do with a certain other ring. We think. Monty Python’s Constitutional Peasants, one of their most perfect moments. David Lindsay’s A Voyage to Arcturus Tolkien definitely liked. The Worm Ouroboros by E. R. Eddison, rather more mixed. (And relatedly our episode on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.) The Grink! (RIP Twitter, culturally at least, but Bluesky is starting to gel more.) Per Ned’s closing comment, Roger Zelazny’s A Night In The Lonesome October has become a seasonal classic of sorts. (And the Gahan Wilson illustrations inside are a delight.) Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon and hang out with us in a friendly little Discord!

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared’s choice of topic: The Lost Road. In 1937, Tolkien agreed to C.S. Lewis’s suggestion to try to write the kind of stories they enjoyed but didn’t see good examples of to their liking. Lewis’s efforts turned into what has been termed the Space Trilogy, starting with Out Of The Silent Planet. Tolkien’s goal was a time travel story called The Lost Road, but outside of a few chapters and some potential outlines, it never got any further, with the success of The Hobbit and his resulting focus of attention being The Lord Of The Rings stopping any further development. It was eventually published in the Christopher Tolkien-edited series The History of Middle-earth, and was revealed to be a fascinating if very incomplete early conception of what Númenor was, including some of its key protagonists and antagonists at the time of its fall. How much does the story’s self-evident autobiographical angle play into how we should regard the surviving chapters, and what do his choices about how to refocus or rewrite the story of his own life suggest in turn? What import do the specifically metaphysical elements of the story have for both Tolkien and his own conception of not only the legendarium but how he regarded language? Building off our previous discussion of the specifically Númenorean chapter in our episode on The Fall of Númenor, what is it about that sequence that is so unusual for Tolkien’s general writing on Middle-earth, and how does it fit within the larger context of this story as it is told, or as much of it as we have? And finally, have you all pre-ordered Jared’s book yet? Really, you should. Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. I mean the whole skull thing is just plain rude. Jared’s novel The West Passage is up for preorders! And you can see the cover art there as well, done by Kuri Huang – check out her work! Elliott Bay Book Company is indeed a great Seattle bookstore, check it out if you’re ever there. Deadline’s report about the rescheduled release of The War Of The Rohirrim, along with TheOneRing.net’s further report also noting the potential production crunch that had been previously looming. (As a compare and contrast, here’s Vulture’s piece on the production nightmare of Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse and Screenrant’s summary of a paywalled Insider article on the much more humane Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem production.) A summary of Embracer’s money sillies. Well well well. The musical revival does seem to have landed rather well! Here’s a fun little promo video, an engaging video review from an attendee, and TheOneRing.net’s own report. (And of course, once more, here’s our own episode on the original production.) The Lost Road! It’s a curio, that’s for sure, but an interesting one even in all its flaws and lacunae. C.S. Lewis’s space trilogy. It’s interesting…if a little uneven, let’s say. As noted at various points, the Númenor chapter was already discussed on its own a bit in our episode on The Fall of Númenor. Want to know something about the Lombardic language? Well there’s always Wikipedia… As for Middle-earth metaphysics, our episodes on The Nature of Middle-earth and the Valar are there for you! The Worm Ouroboros with the framing device with Lessingham. A common trope! Sycld Shefing! He got around. Corn? Maize? Here’s a little more about it. So the actual Alboin was…not pleasant. And you better believe the skull thing was known by later artists. Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Years of Rice and Salt, if you’d like to know more. (And then there’s Harry Turtledove and then etc.) Our “A Secret Vice” episode, considering Tolkien’s compulsion to create languages. Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic. Thank you if you do.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: land. By default the Middle-earth legendarium is about a place that never was, however rooted in the actual planet we live on, and the range of details from sweeping mountains and vast continents to small roads and fields evident throughout the cycle of stories is a key part of what has made Tolkien’s work so vivid and loved. Both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are specifically about journeys as the key plotline, where characters move into spaces that they’d only heard about dimly or not at all as they seek to fulfill their aims. That said, there’s certainly more than this to how Tolkien considers and situates the geography of his creation, including the in-universe explanations of that creation to start with and Melkor’s marring of it. How has Tolkien’s grounding of Middle-earth in the feeling of Northern Europe in general shaped perceptions of fantasy worlds since, and what authors and traditions have worked against it? What are the senses of how layers of history have both informed and shaped the land and the peoples who were and are there in the legendarium, and how does that emerge along the way as the stories progress? Have the expectations and experiences of quick and easy travel shaped our reaction to understanding how slow journeys are, especially on foot, as was the case for most of human history? And did the stones of Eregion indeed actually speak? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. And who wouldn’t enjoy that view, we ask? The WGA strike is of course still happening. And you should still support it! And the actors too! And indeed, Andy Serkis’s The Silmarillion reading is out! So yes, not only did a fan purchase the Magic: The Gathering The One Ring card by lucky chance, following the episode recording he sold it to hardcore MTG fan Post Malone. Truly this is a world we are in. The promo performance of “Now And For Always” from the revival of the LOTR musical is pretty nice! Performances did start soon after the episode recording and an initial Guardian review was quite complimentary. More promo photos are available, and again there’s always our episode on the original production… The Rings of Power Emmy nominations. Of course, when the Emmys themselves will happen is another matter. The Society of American Archivists’ announcement of William Fliss’s award for his continuing work with the Marquette University Tolkien archive. We meant to mention that fellow Megaphonic podcast The Spouter-Inn discussed The Fellowship of the Ring as part of a cluster of books about land, and then had Oriana on as a guest. Much of the Christopher Tolkien-edited History of Middle-earth series is essentially about Tolkien’s decades-long process of setting down what Middle-earth actually was. Among the key books in the series in this regard are The Shaping of Middle-earth and Morgoth’s Ring. I suspect most of us had our own Oregon Trail experiences. No, we are not going to relitigate the Eagles. Just listen to our episode. The article on Tolkien and Aldo Leopold is Lucas Niiler’s 1999 piece “Green Reading: Tolkien, Leopold and the Land Ethic.” Who wouldn’t love the Glittering Caves? (And indeed, check out our dwarves episode as well as our Ghân-Buri-Ghân episode.) Colonialism/imperialism and environmental destruction? Who could guess there’d be a connection. (Enjoy this book for some other light reading.) Very light, but this piece on Roman ruins in the present day helps underscore this sense of persistence into the present Tolkien captures well. (In contrast, the Duwamish have had to fight erasure.) If you want to go to Three Rivers, learn a little more about it. A 2015 Vox piece on the invention and criminalization of jaywalking. Peter Jackson’s vision of Isengard as industrial hellhole. (The tree being flung down is at 1:20.) Earthsea is always a vibe but as Jared notes, check out Annals of the Western Shore. A Thousand Thousand Islands is indeed no longer going, sadly, but you can get a taste of it here. Guy Gavriel Kay’s had quite the career! And indeed some younger authors to check out who aren’t doing Europe all over again include R. F. Kuang and Tasha Suri. Fonda Lee has the Green Bone Saga to check out, aka the ‘Jade’ series. And indeed the fan film Born of Hope about Arathorn is on YouTube! Support us and our network on Patreon and you can join us to talk Tolkien (and more!) in our friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: The Fall of Númenor. Published in fall of 2022, The Fall of Númenor is the most recent posthumously published collection of Middle-earth writings, acting as an overall guide to the Second Age of Middle-earth, with its key defining moments in Tolkien’s legendarium being the fall of the titular kingdom of the Dúnedain and the subsequent Last Alliance’s temporary defeat of Sauron. Given that most of the material the book draws on comes from a wide variety of other posthumous Tolkien publications, it can serve as a guide and introduction for those unaware of this deeper history to get a sense of how Tolkien envisioned, however haltingly in some cases, this particular era of his creation. But at the same time, since there is no new material presented in the first place, it can be argued in turn that there is little more here for some readers to learn about, while the fact that it was published in tandem with Amazon’s Rings of Power series while not specifically calling attention to the general connection with that series’s setting raises further overall questions. Does the book do a service in bringing the story of Aldarion and Erendis back to the fore after some decades, given its particular detail in comparison with the rest of the material presented? Is the choice of Alan Lee to present more illustrations as with other posthumous collections an understandable point of continuity or a sign of relying too much on one particular artistic vision of Middle-earth? Are there any particular details or points of interest that have sometimes been overlooked in Tolkien’s conception of his world that come back to the fore more here as a result? And really…just what IS it with Elendil’s description of his son at a couple of points? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Those birds have to be at least a little distressed. News of the expanded edition of The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. 700 pages? Why not? A detailed report on The War of the Rohirrim’s event at Annecy. Enjoy a separate interview as well. The Fall of Númenor. It fell indeed. Our episode on Aldarion and Erendis. Give it a listen, it’s one of our favorites. Brian Sibley’s done a lot. The Lost Road and Other Writings does have quite a lot to delve into. C. S. Lewis’s space trilogy. It…goes places. The New Shadow and The Notion Club Papers are indeed very unusual and interesting. Nope, we’re still not over The Rings of Power. Lebensraum, hoo boy. (We do not approve of the idea at all.) Mary Renault is truly a vibe and we appreciate her. And we love that she loved Tolkien’s work in turn! Strictly speaking California doesn’t have private beaches full on…but boy some try. Further discussion of the physical body in Tolkien can be found in the essay collection The Body in Tolkien’s Legendarium. Alan Lee’s illustrations of Sauron’s Temple and Moria from the book. Mike Mignola would have been a fine addition for del Toro’s planned Hobbit films. (And indeed, episode 50 is there for you.) Ah, David Brent. Our episode on orcs. Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared’s choice of topic: Sir Orfeo. The Orpheus myth is one of the most mysterious ones in the open-ended collection of tales that make up what is termed ‘Greek mythology,’ something that Tolkien would have learned about by default as part of his standard late Victorian/Edwardian education. But his particular exploration of that myth wasn’t via one of those texts, but a translation of a Middle English poem by an anonymous author, itself based on a Breton source, that fused elements of the most famous Orpheus story – trying to win back the love of his life from the land of the dead – with elements of Celtic faery and myth as well as recent English history. Yet Tolkien’s work is one of his most mysterious efforts in turn, first presented by Christopher Tolkien along with the translations of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and Pearl, but, as the younger Tolkien explained, unaccompanied by any notes, introductory paragraphs or even an exact date of creation to determine what inspired him to make the translation or for what purpose it might have been intended. Can more be said about how old and familiar myths get reset and recontextualized across human history, reflecting the situations and biases of their times? Is there anything about the poem or the translation that stands out as uniquely or distinctly Tolkienian based on his other work? What about the land of the dead makes it such an unusual place all around, especially considering the fates of those who are there? And drawing on our separate news discussion about the continuing WGA strike and its impact on The Rings of Power season 2, how complicated is it to shoot a TV show anyway? (It’s very complicated.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Harps do have power in the right hands. Support the WGA strike! It’ll help Oriana among many others. Lots of good pieces out there, including interviews with Michael Schur, David Simon and Hollywood Teamster leader Lindsay Dougherty, plus this barnburner of a piece from one of the striking writers, Ron Currie. The Rings of Power cast talk about things. Kinda vaguely, but anyway. So the WGA strike didn’t deter Amazon from getting the second season of The Rings of Power done, apparently. Check out the Annecy International Animation Film Festival. Here’s the page for The War of the Rohirrim. Sir Orfeo! Want to try and read along in the original? Here’s one of the texts with some guidance as needed. The Orpheus myth is indeed pretty darned complex! David Graeber’s Debt: The First 5000 Years? Well worth your time. The history of Winchester is a little involved… There’s a fair amount out there about ‘the Greek tradition’ and Victorians – have a read here for some more of that. As for the fairies/faery in Celtic tradition and the dead, there’s a lot there too. Here’s a starting point. Hadestown! It was and is a hit indeed. (And if you’d like to hear the original version.) Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic. If you do, you can hang out with us in a members-only Discord and hear an exclusive interview with Jared.

Jared, Oriana and Ned appear live in Portland at Passages Bookshop to celebrate fifty episodes of By-the-Bywater and to talk about Oriana’s choice of topic: Peter Jackson’s adaptation of The Hobbit. To say that there was almost immediate speculation about whether or when Jackson would also adapt The Hobbit following the smash critical and commercial success of his Lord of the Rings films is to understate; over the following years there were further lawsuits, broken agreements, studio questions, planned directorial choices that mysteriously fell through and more besides that seemed to indicate it would be the biggest case of developmental hell ever. But eventually the films did start coming out in a similar yearly pace starting in December 2012, and certainly earned a fair amount of cash. Yet to say that the films have had anywhere near the level of widespread love and cultural staying power than The Lord of the Rings films is to deny the fundamental truth of how poorly these films have aged on several levels, and the various resultant impacts since, up to and including a literal rewriting of a country’s laws to accommodate the production. What were the core differences between the two sets of adaptations on a structural level, and how did that play out in comparative terms? What technical achievements were made much of in the run up to the films’ release, and what impact did they actually have? How did what should be a core relationship between the characters of Thorin and Bilbo get set up as a near love story, and how was that all ultimately undercut in the final edits? And really…Alfrid Lickspittle. REALLY? Show Notes. Jared couldn’t make a doodle for obvious reasons. But look here! Friend of the show and network Gabriel did sketch us! Big ups to Passages Bookshop! Owner David is a fine fellow and you should all check it out next time you’re in Portland. Not only was there our live episode but there was an associated live bingo game for audience members. (Some people got close but nobody got it exactly – pity, that would have been amazing if that had happened!) Oriana’s old podcast American Grift. It may yet return! Whitechapel! Steampunky, yes, but the drinks are great. Our first episode! Different days… The Hollywood Reporter story on Amazon Studio’s somewhat flailing ways, especially in terms of The Rings of Power. That suit filed by the fanfic guy. Where to begin. And if you want the back cover of his totally original book The Fellowship of the King, here ya go. (Debutante ball. Really.) Don’t forget Jared’s upcoming novel! Our Silver Call duology episode – and our Rings of Power Season 1 episode. RIP Barry Humphries , Jackson’s Goblin King. The Hobbit movies. Yup. That’s them. We’ve linked them before but the three parts of Lindsay Ellis’s analysis of The Hobbit films are really something special, a masterpiece of both analysis and reporting. Nathan Rabin’s old Forgotbusters column for the Dissolve. Ah the Denny’s menu. Testimony from one who survived The whole framerate thing was hyped almost as much as the 3D. And it was countered at the time, not just retrospectively… The opening sequence in Erebor is indeed a technical and artistic success. The escaping Goblin-town sequence…is not. The barrel escape definitely isn’t. Dune and Goodnight Moon? Julia Yu has you covered. Thorin and Bilbo fan-art on Tumblr? Wouldn’t know about that… Thorin’s death scene with Bilbo? Very strong, very close in dialogue to the book too. The death scene after it? Well… The Tauriel issue. There’s a lot. Martin Freeman and James Nesbitt can indeed do something together with a sense of dramatic heft and charisma, as seen in this scene from the first movie. Nothing like it happens again. Lee Pace really just needed to do this. The Thorin charge to Azog down the flaming tree, yeah…and the music with it? Why did they do that? Alfrid Lickspittle. Just, no. (We’re sure Ryan Gage is lovely in his own right.) Yeah, Smaug the Golden was a nice touch. Support By-The-Bywater and Megaphonic and help us do more live events!

Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Ned’s choice of topic: the Rankin-Bass adaptation of The Return of the King. When Rankin-Bass’s 1977 adaptation of The Hobbit was shown on American network TV, the animation studio was already well into planning a further effort adapting The Lord of the Rings in some form as a sequel; the positive attention and ratings success of their Hobbit doubtless made them think they were on the right track. But when Arthur Rankin Jr. confessed in a 2003 interview that their version of The Return of the King was “not a very good film,” that was an understatement to say the least. While their Hobbit had flaws but was still a reasonably entertaining, focused translation of the story into a particular medium heightened by striking background work from their partners at the Japanese animation studio Topcraft, the Rankin-Bass Return of the King, which aired in 1980 and which continued to showcase work by Topcraft, was otherwise at best a muddled mess and at worst just a flat out disaster, with scattered positive elements not offsetting the series of baffling adaptation decisions that look even weirder following the success of Peter Jackson’s version of the book. What makes the pacing of the film so incredibly bizarre and frustrating, and how did the decision to tell which parts of the story in greater detail compromise the wider scope as a whole? How does the vocal casting and the respective performances end up underselling the flow of the story as a whole? Are there any good parts to the whole at all, and do they actually provide any upside to the end result? And why, why, WHY in the world are there so many bad songs throughout – even if there’s disagreement over whether “Where There’s a Whip” slaps or not? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle – and it really is all that is deserved. Come join us in Portland for our live episode recording if you can! April 22, 2023 is the date, we’ll be at Passages Bookshop, and we’ll be there with our fellow podcasts It’s Just a Show and Game Show 1939! News of more Rings of Power casting. Good luck, everyone. Ciarán Hinds really is all that. But as mentioned in a post-recording edit, Ned made a mistake and muddled two There Will Be Blood scenes – the confrontation scene he talks about is absolutely stunning for sure, but the one where for the first couple of minutes Hinds just very carefully watches, smokes and takes it all in is the one nearer the beginning where Paul Sunday first sits down with Daniel Plainview. The UK National Archives post on the newly discovered letters by Tolkien. The Rankin-Bass Return of the King! It sure did return. Our earlier episode on the Rankin-Bass Hobbit. A lot of information on Rankin-Bass in general which also applies to this production is linked there, so we won’t repeat it all here. (And since we do mention Bakshi’s film a couple of times, here’s our episode on that.) Oh I think we all know about the Star Wars Holiday Special. But the forthcoming documentary could be interesting. The John Culhane New York Times piece from 1977 where Rankin’s quote about their plans for The Return of the King comes from. The 1980 LA Times piece by Charles Solomon mentioned is available to read via Newspapers.com though only via a free trial; its first part can be found here along with the awesome Joan Jett photo. If you really actually want to watch the Rankin-Bass Return of the King, don’t say we didn’t want you. Rick Goldschimdt’s interview with Rankin; the quote about Return of the King is towards the end of the clip. The one-album vinyl redaction of the movie from 1980. Want a view of that Seattle Kraken tentacle? Enjoy. Oriana’s fine with the orcs not being depicted in a racist fashion, Jared likes the design of Minas Tirith. We’ll take what we can get. The Last Homely House does look like it should be snow covered in the Swiss Alps or something. Ah the minstrel. Yes. Yes indeed. Where there’s a whip! (But yeah, some love or at least nuance for the orcs, we love to see it, as we argued in our own episode about them.) Barad-dûr is…odd. Neuschwanstein Castle, if you ever want to check it out. Sauron, though, that’s pretty interesting. And definitely not Mike Wazowski. Our Silver Call duology episode. Still a very strange piece of work. Bring on The War of the Rohirrim! crossed fingers Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon. Thanks!

Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared’s choice of topic: worldbuilding. Tolkien is so heavily identified with the concept of worldbuilding that a map of Middle-earth represents the topic on Wikipedia, and his impact in both fantasy and beyond regarding how a world that is not this actual globe we live on is perceived and presented has continuing afterechoes that don’t look to disappear anytime soon. At the same time, what exactly worldbuilding IS is a hardly an agreed upon formal standard anywhere, and the amount of work that’s been put into developing a story setting in any number of media, not just that of fantasy novels much less novels in general, is vast, varied and takes many particular forms. Meanwhile, Tolkien’s own approach as to what worldbuilding is comes out of his own particular personal and philosophical conclusions, and doesn't always take the form of what a more stereotypical approach to the subject might be in the current day. What makes the idea of Middle-earth so compelling to readers entranced by his works, and what drives them to learn more about it or to elaborate on it in their own right? What other creators, in fiction and beyond it, successfully approach similar levels of immersion, and are there particular points of commonality to be found there? Are there particular points in Tolkien’s stylistic approach that signal notable strengths in creating the sense of Middle-earth as an actual place, and how much of that might lie in a difference between received perception and the reality of the work? And how much does Jared’s own forthcoming fantasy novel drive this discussion? (A lot – and we’re going to be talking about that novel a lot over time, don’t you worry – but also listen for initial news about our live episode in Portland in April!) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle – makes you wonder what else is going on in this world shown here… More about the HarperCollins Union contract. Well done, we say again. The Lord of the Rings musical is coming back! We’re still scratching our heads a bit. (Listen in to our 2020 episode about it.) The Watermill. It does seem like a nice theatre… Variety’s report on the Embracer/Warner Bros. Discovery deal and the prospect of more movies. A little more about Mike de Luca from 2011. Still confused about the overall rights issues when it comes to Tolkien in the first place? A handy Gizmodo explainer. The announcement of Jared’s novel! Due for release next year, and we’ll get you a preorder link when there is one. More on that whole Doug Liman/Bourne Identity thing. Ah, Hollywood power politics… Worldbuilding! Yup, Middle-earth, right there. Terry Pratchett, rest in peace. One of the greats. Sub-creation, how Tolkien thought of his own creative impulse ultimately deriving from his own belief in God as the ultimate creator. Our episode on “A Secret Vice,” Tolkien’s lecture about creating languages. NaNoWriMo! It’s a thing, believe us. Our death episode! (Very early days for the podcast and the format’s a bit different but we were still figuring it out!) The Chekhov’s gun principle. Oriana’s Star Wars comments specifically refer to Solo. Ioreth! There should have been more of her but we’re glad we have her. The ‘whispering to date’ Twitter meme origin. (Forgot what Chappie is? So did everyone else.) Ted Bundy – and yes we hope he’s not part of your narrative either. Our Rings of Power Season 1 episode. That did feel good to do. N. K. Jemisin and the Broken Earth trilogy – check it out. As well as: Frank Herbert and Dune! Ursula K Le Guin and Earthsea! Lloyd Alexander and Prydain! Steven Erikson and Malazan Book of the Fallen! The Dark Crystal, still awesome. “As you know, Bob…” The cats of Queen Berúthiel and Carn Dûm. Our food in Middle-earth episode. Enjoy talk about Roman sewers. And Amsterdam’s canals. M. R. James, so awesome. Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon, and thank you if you do!

Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Oriana’s choice of topic: Gollum. For all the high adventure, heroics great and small and world-shattering consequences and much more that exists in Tolkien’s legendarium, arguably the most fascinating character he created in the end is his most racked, ruined and miserable, first encountered as a mysterious slimy creature living and lurking in a subterranean lake with only one thing of particular value to his name. Tolkien’s introduction of both Gollum and a magic ring into this world was, to borrow a phrase from the narrator of The Hobbit, a turning point in his career, the more when as he embarked on the writing that would result in The Lord of the Rings he realized he needed to rethink and redo the original, much more comically grotesque version of Gollum into a being living out any number of emotional and physical extremities at once. Arguably both this transformation and then the incorporation of this version of Gollum into his grand story became something he never quite got over, based on his various reactions over time as seen most clearly in his published letters on the subject. Why might the strongest scene for the entire Lord of the Rings be the simple gesture of Gollum tentatively reaching out to touch a sleeping Frodo on the way to Cirith Ungol? What is it about Tolkien’s self retcon of what Gollum is at heart that is fascinating still? Does the unspoken backstory of Sméagol and Déagol’s relationship suggest deep waters indeed, and how did Tolkien regard them both? And did Gollum really eat babies in the end or was that just something dreamed up by dirtbag elves? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle – just waiting on some fish as the endless, timeless years stretch on… Was there rain? There was rain. The HarperCollins Union strike looks to be over! Here’s a press announcement. Like we said, rumors, no more, about Embracer and Warner Bros. Who knows. The BBC Repair Shop story is a treat. Just hanging around Tolkien and Gandalf in Warsaw. Lord of the Bins! Well, good luck. Gollum’s touching of Frodo’s knee should be portrayed more in fan art, but maybe we’re not looking hard enough. But there is this at least. All letters quoted taken from the standard Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien collection. The letter to Eileen Elgar quoted later in the episode can be read in full here. Our episodes on Sam Gamgee and the Red Book of Westmarch. Andy Serkis’s retelling on how he first considered the Gollum casting can be found in both the movie documentaries and his own book on the role. Admittedly that Cat in the Hat fish is a punk. Grendel? Fascinating and monstrous character…but not Gollum. John D. Rateliff’s The History Of The Hobbit breaks down the history of the book from manuscript through its later editions, including the abandoned early 1960s rewrite. The Third Man is a great, great film. Were the elves spreading stories of atrocity propaganda? Well… Serkis himself sees Gollum through the lens of addiction, but the evidence that Tolkien himself had that in mind is scanty at best. The David Foster Wallace piece in question – one of several on tennis, his favorite sport – is “The String Theory.” (The exact quote: “It’s the sort of love whose measure is what it’s cost, what one’s given up for it.”) Déagol, shadowy and still crucial. Yeah sure, Midsomer Murders, but really it’s about Rosemary & Thyme as we say. And we do want that TV series we dream up. Goofus and Gallant forever. If you like. How associated is the phrase ‘unstuck in time’ with Kurt Vonnegut? Quite a bit. And go go go Everything Everywhere All At Once! Surely it can win everything. Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord.