
CleanLaw
The Harvard Law School Environmental & Energy Law Program influences policy discussions about environmental, climate, and energy issues. The EELP offers robust legal analysis and practical governance solutions that will move these discussions forward.
Latest episodes

May 23, 2023 • 1h 7min
Ep 83: EPA's Proposed Power Sector Rules w/ Jody Freeman, Jay Duffy, Kevin Poloncarz, Carrie Jenks
EELP’s Founding Director Jody Freeman, who is also an independent director of ConocoPhillips, and EELP's executive director, Carrie Jenks speak again with Jay Duffy, litigation director at Clean Air Task Force, and Kevin Poloncarz, a partner at the law firm Covington and Burling.
Jody, Jay, and Kevin recently joined CleanLaw to discuss the Supreme Court’s decision about the Obama Administration’s Clean Power Plan, and now, with Carrie, talk about EPA's recently proposed greenhouse gas regulation for the power sector and their views on how EPA's approaches were shaped by both the Supreme Court’s decision, West Virginia v. EPA, and Congress’s enactment of the Inflation Reduction Act.
Transcript available here https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Transcript-83-Power-Sector-Rule-Jody-Jay-Kevin-Carrie-J.pdf

May 5, 2023 • 47min
Ep 82: Equitable Disaster Insurance & Climate Change w/Hannah Perls, Carolyn Kousky, & Sean Hecht
EELP senior staff attorney Hannah Perls speaks with Dr. Carolyn Kousky, associate vice president for economics and policy at the Environmental Defense Fund, and Sean Hecht, who is the managing attorney of Earth Justice's California Regional Office.
They discuss the past, present, and future of disaster insurance, including the role that governments can play in helping design insurance markets that not only redistribute climate related risk, but can help mitigate that risk in an effective and equitable way. Carolyn and Sean are just speaking for themselves and not on behalf of their current or former organizations.
Transcript available here: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Transcript-82-Disaster-Insurance-Past-Present-and-Future-with-Hannah-Perls-Carolyn-Kousky-Sean-Hecht.pdf
Mentioned links:
Carolyn Kousky, Understanding Disaster Insurance: New Tools for a More Resilient Future (2022): https://islandpress.org/books/understanding-disaster-insurance
Sean Hecht, Climate Change and the Transformation of Risk: Insurance Matters, 55 UCLA L. Rev. 1559 (2008): https://www.uclalawreview.org/pdf/55-6-3.pdf
Carolyn’s testimony before the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs: https://www.banking.senate.gov/hearings/reauthorization-of-the-national-flood-insurance-program-improving-community-resilience
The California Insurance Commission’s Sustainable Insurance Roadmap: https://www.insurance.ca.gov/01-consumers/180-climate-change/The-Sustainable-Insurance-Roadmap.cfm

Apr 22, 2023 • 59min
Ep 81: Journey to the Electrification of the Transportation Sector w/Jody Freeman and Chet France
Harvard Law Professor and EELP's Founding Director Jody Freeman, who is also an independent director of ConocoPhillips, speaks with Chet France, a former senior executive at EPA who oversaw the first national greenhouse gas standards for cars and trucks in US history. Jody and Chet analyze EPA's most recent proposal to update greenhouse gas emission standards for light-duty and medium-duty vehicles and discuss how the implementation of those standards might be impacted by subsidies and incentives in the infrastructure bill and the Inflation Reduction Act and future litigation.
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/CleanLaw-81-Journey-to-the-electrification-of-the-transportation-sector.pdf
Mentioned links:
Episode 65, Clean Car Rules with Jody Freeman and Chet France https://soundcloud.com/user-995691545/65clean-car-rules-with-jody-freeman-and-chet-france?si=db9f227fa1424e34a1a30e322212c7e1&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
EDF Joins Dozens of Other Leaders to Defend EPA’s Clean Car Standards in Court: https://www.edf.org/media/edf-joins-dozens-other-leaders-defend-epas-clean-car-standards-court
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/CleanLaw-81-Journey-to-the-electrification-of-the-transportation-sector.pdf

Apr 10, 2023 • 22min
Ep 80: The Making of Environmental Law with Richard Lazarus and Carrie Jenks
Executive Director Carrie Jenks speaks with Harvard Law School Professor Richard Lazarus about his recently released book, The Making of Environmental Law, Second Edition. In this long-awaited update, Professor Lazarus describes how environmental law has developed over the last two decades and explores new challenges for the field, including the shifting role of the judiciary, long overdue efforts to achieve environmental justice, and addressing climate change.
Read the transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/CleanLaw-80-The-Making-of-Environmental-Law-April-2023.pdf

Apr 6, 2023 • 21min
Ep 79: The Good Neighbor Plan for Interstate Ozone Pollution with Carrie Jenks and Hannah Dobie
Carrie Jenks and Hannah Oakes Dobie talk about EPA’s latest regulation to address interstate ozone pollution, the “Good Neighbor Plan.” They discuss how the rule’s new design features will refine EPA’s longstanding air transport program to require power plants to reduce smog-forming pollutants. You can read more about the 2023 “good neighbor plan” in the link below.
This podcast was recorded on April 3, 2023. On April 5, EPA issued its pre-publication version of the proposed Mercury Air Toxics Standards that Carrie mentions in her discussion about upcoming power sector rules that might impact the timing for installation of emissions control technologies.
Read the transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Transcript-7-the-Good-Neighbor-Plan-for-Interestate-Ozone-Pollution.pdf
Acronyms in this episode: CAIR (Clean Air Interstate Rule), CSAPR (Cross-State Air Pollution Rule), FIP (Federal Implementation Plan), NAAQS (National Ambient Air Quality Standards), SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction controls), SNCR (Selective Non-Catalytic Reduction controls), SIP (State Implementation Plan)

Mar 7, 2023 • 9min
Ep 78—Quick Take: Legal issues from the East Palestine Train Derailment
Senior Staff Attorney Sara Dewey speaks with Hannah Perls talk about the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. They discuss the regulatory and legal implications of the derailment, including who is in charge of the response and the different roles that federal agencies play. They also discuss the cleanup order issued by EPA and possible federal reforms to railroad safety regulations.
You can find a transcript of this episode here https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Transcript-78-East-Palestine-Sara-and-Hannah.pdf

Feb 15, 2023 • 9min
Ep 77—Quick Take: The Dakota Access Pipeline with Hannah Perls and Carrie Jenks
In our first CleanLaw Quick Take*, our Executive Director Carrie Jenks and Staff Attorney Hannah Perls walk through the latest updates on the Dakota Access Pipeline.
Hannah explains how the US Army Corps of Engineers' announcement about its upcoming draft environmental impact statement might affect the future of the pipeline, and how litigation between the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Army Corps got us to this point.
Carrie and Hannah also review the Tribe's concerns in that litigation, what will happen after the draft environmental impact statement is released, and how other federal actions might affect what's in the Army Corps' draft.
You can stay updated on the Dakota Access Pipeline on our Regulatory Tracker Page. http://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2018/09/dakota-access-pipeline/
Here is a transcript of this episode http://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/Transcript-77-DAPL-QT-with-Hannah-and-Carrie.pdf
*CleanLaw Quick Takes are mini episodes where our staff break down a current topic in environmental or energy law in ten minutes or less. These episodes are designed for general audiences as well as practitioners.

Jan 30, 2023 • 34min
Ep 76—BSEE’s Proposed Offshore Oil Drilling Safety Regulations with Lowry Yankwich and Chris Eaton
Recent HLS graduate Lowry Yankwich speaks with Earthjustice attorney Chris Eaton about the Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement's proposed Blowout Preventer Systems and Well Control Revisions rule for oil and gas operations in the Outer Continental Shelf.
This rule is intended to protect workers and prevent oil spills, and is part of the reforms instituted since the Deepwater Horizon tragedy.
Lowry and Chris discuss the arc of this rulemaking through the Obama, Trump, and Biden presidencies, and Chris explains its technical and legal aspects. You can stay updated on this rule on our BSEE Regulatory Tracker page https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/tracker/bsee-blowout-preventer-and-well-control-rule/
Here is a transcript of this episode https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Transcript-76-Lowry-and-Chris.pdf

Jan 5, 2023 • 33min
Ep 75—EPA’s Methane Regulations with Carrie Jenks, Kyle Danish, and Dan Zimmerle
Carrie Jenks, our executive director, speaks with Kyle Danish, a partner at Van Ness Feldman, and Dan Zimmerle, the director of the Methane Emissions Program at Colorado State University. They discuss EPA's recently released supplemental proposal to reduce methane emissions from the oil and natural gas sector, and how the regulatory framework EPA has proposed is designed to enable the use of advanced technologies to better detect and therefore reduce emissions. You can read more about EPA's proposed rule in our white paper EPA’s Supplemental Methane Proposal—A Comprehensive Regulatory Framework to Encourage Use of Advanced Technologies and Significantly Reduce Methane Emissions. https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/epa-supplemental-methane-proposal/
Here's the link to a transcript of this episode https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Transcript-Carrie-Dan-and-Kyle.pdf

Nov 17, 2022 • 35min
Ep 74—Oregon's Clean Fuel Standards with Abby Husselbee and Cory-Ann Wind. Album: CleanLaw
EELP Legal Fellow Abby Husselbee speaks with Cory-Ann Wind, the Program Manager of Oregon’s Clean Fuels Program in the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality. Cory has worked for ODEQ for over 29 years, the last 12 in fuels, transportation, and climate policy. Abby and Cory discuss clean fuel standards and their benefits, Oregon’s program and history, prior legal challenges to their programs, and some lessons learned.
Here's the link to a transcript of this episode https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Transcript-Cory-Ann-and-Abby.pdf