

CleanLaw
HLS Environmental & Energy Law Program
The Harvard Law School Environmental & Energy Law Program influences policy discussions about environmental, climate, and energy issues. The EELP offers robust legal analysis and practical governance solutions that will move these discussions forward.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 22, 2024 • 45min
Monumental Decisions: The Antiquities Act and Presidential Authority
EELP senior staff attorney Sara Dewey speaks with Andy Mergen, Faculty Director of the Emmett Environmental Law and Policy Clinic at Harvard Law School and former chief of the Appellate Section of the Environment & Natural Resources Division at the Department of Justice. Andy and Sara discuss the origin and evolution of presidential authority to designate national monuments under the Antiquities Act, how Congress and the courts have responded to these designations over the act’s 118-year history, present day legal challenges to the Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments, and what could be ahead for monuments in the Supreme Court.
Transcript here https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CleanLaw_EP97-final.pdf

9 snips
Jul 12, 2024 • 59min
Ep 96—Suite of Supreme Court Decisions Undermine Administrative Law
Andy Mergen discusses recent Supreme Court decisions undermining administrative agencies with Jody Freeman. They analyze the 'Quagmire Quartet' of cases, centralization of power in the judiciary, challenges for federal agencies, and hope for upholding important federal rules.

Jun 13, 2024 • 53min
Ep 95—The Road to Clean Cars and Clean Air: California's Pivotal Role
California has had a pivotal role in creating US clean car and clean air regulations under multiple administrations. In this episode, EELP Founding Director and Harvard Law Professor, Jody Freeman, speaks with Mary Nichols, former Chair of the California Air Resources Board and California's Secretary for Natural Resources, as well as former Assistant Administrator for EPA's Office of Air and Radiation. They discuss California's role in driving car and air emissions regulation, how automakers and market forces have evolved since the 1970s, and what may happen in the coming years under either election outcome.
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Jody-and-Mary-episode-95.pdf

Jun 11, 2024 • 59min
Ep 94—FERC’s New Approach to Improving Transmission Investment, Order No. 1920
Ari Peskoe, director of our Electricity Law Initiative, speaks with Claire Wayner, senior associate at RMI's Carbon-Free Electricity program, and Casey Baker senior program manager at GridLab. They discuss how the utility industry thinks about building new high-voltage transmission lines and how FERC Order No. 1920 attempts to push the industry to develop more transmission to accommodate new, clean sources of electricity while maintaining a reliable and affordable power system.
Transcript (pdf): https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CleanLaw_EP94.pdf

May 13, 2024 • 54min
Ep 93 — Wicked Resilient: Climate Adaptation in Massachusetts
Hannah Perls, EELP Senior Staff Attorney, and Deanna Moran, vice president of healthy and resilient communities at the Conservation Law Foundation in Boston, walk through some of the surprising ways that law and policy drive adaptation decisions in Massachusetts and beyond, including state and local building codes, design standards and risk disclosures, how to make our utilities more resilient without forcing ratepayers to bear the costs, and permitting. We also dig into current advocacy efforts for a wicked resilient New England.
Show notes:
Conservation Law Foundation report on The Massachusetts State Building Code & Climate Change https://www.clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/CLF_ClimateCodeReport_2019.pdf
Environmental Law Institute report on State Protection of Nonfederal Waters: Turbidity Continues https://www.eli.org/sites/default/files/files-pdf/52.10679.pdf
An Act Promoting Climate Safe Buildings https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/SD18
An Act Relative to Electric Utility Climate Resilience and Microgrids https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/SD786
Follow Deanna on X/Twitter demoran18
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CleanLaw_EP93-1.pdf

Jan 17, 2024 • 46min
Ep 92 — The Endangered Species Act at 50: Potent Statute, Risky Future
The Endangered Species Act, which turned 50 years old on December 28, 2023, has been described as one of the most potent environmental law statutes ever enacted. Harvard Law Professor Richard Lazarus and Andy Mergen, director of the Harvard Law Emmett Environmental Law and Policy Clinic, discuss the initial bipartisan support for the act, the Supreme Court cases that shaped its implementation, and the success of the law in protecting numerous species. They also talk about how the Endangered Species Act could be improved and the risks that it may face in the future.
Transcript (PDF): https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CleanLaw-EP92.pdf

Dec 28, 2023 • 1h 1min
Ep 91—Global and US Methane Initiatives
In this episode Harvard Law professor and EELP’s Founding Director Jody Freeman, speaks with Bjorn Otto Sverdrup, Chair of the Oil and Gas Climate Initiative’s Oil and Gas Executive Committee, Riley Duren, CEO and Founder of Carbon Mapper, Peter Zalzal Distinguished Counsel and Associate Vice President of Clean Air Strategies at Environmental Defense Fund, and EELP’s Executive Director, Carrie Jenks.
They discuss international and domestic efforts to reduce methane emissions, the Global Methane Pledge from COP 26, the Oil and Gas Decarbonization Charter from COP 28, the Biden administration’s recently released final methane rule for the oil and natural gas sector, the technology innovation that is making it increasingly possible to detect methane leaks, and the climate benefits of focusing on methane.
Transcript available here https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CleanLaw-91-transcript.pdf

Nov 1, 2023 • 48min
Ep 90—Replacing the Utility Transmission Syndicate’s Control, Ari Peskoe & Hannah Dobie
Ari Peskoe, the Director of the Electricity Law Initiative at Harvard Law School, joins Staff Attorney Hannah Dobie to dive into his latest insights on power sector governance. They dissect how the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) influences regional decision-making, often compromising the independence of Regional Transmission Organizations (RTOs). The discussion also touches on the urgent need for reform to boost transparency and representation in RTOs, unlocking the industry's innovative potential and addressing long-standing monopolistic control issues.

Oct 17, 2023 • 57min
Ep 89—3 lawsuits on auto emissions, 1 UAW strike, and the EV transition
Harvard Law Professor and EELP’s Founding Director Jody Freeman, speaks with Kevin Poloncarz, a partner at the law firm Covington & Burling and Jack Ewing, a New York Times business reporter who writes about the auto industry and electric vehicles. Jody, Kevin, and Jack discuss the three cases currently before the D.C. Circuit about how agencies set vehicle standards to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve fuel efficiency. They also discuss the United Auto Workers strike, the economics and supply chain considerations for manufacturing electric vehicles, and how each may affect the Biden administration’s climate policy for the transportation sector.
Transcript here: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CleanLaw-89-transcript.pdf

Aug 23, 2023 • 1h 5min
Ep 88: Loper Bright and the fate of Chevron with Jody Freeman and Andy Mergen
Harvard Law Professor and EELP’s founding director Jody Freeman, speaks with Andy Mergen, director of Harvard Law’s Emmett Environmental Law and Policy Clinic, about a case the US Supreme Court will hear this fall, Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo, in which petitioners have asked the Court to overrule the Chevron doctrine — a legal doctrine that governs when a court should defer to an agency’s interpretation of a law. The case arises under the Magnuson–Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act, which authorizes requiring commercial fishing vessels to carry onboard observers, but the statute doesn’t specify that the fishermen should pay for those observers.
Jody and Andy talk about how the Supreme Court might cabin or overrule the Chevron doctrine, and what the case might mean for other environmental regulations and federal regulation more broadly.
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CleanLaw-88-transcript-8-23-2023.pdf
Quotes:
"The Chevron case involved a reading by the Environmental Protection Agency in the Reagan administration that was actually helpful to business, and allowed them some flexibility in updating facilities without having to get new permits under the Clean Air Act. Those were the facts of Chevron. It was viewed as a flexibility-enhancing interpretation, a deregulatory, business-friendly interpretation." –Jody Freeman [6:00]
"I think that the folks who are advancing an anti-administrative state agenda are just worried that Congress has created a pretty robust environmental statutory regime, a pretty robust human health and safety regime, and the agencies are proceeding in good faith to implement Congress's goals there. I think that at this point in the game, folks who are anti-regulatory would rather detooth the professional staff in those agencies rather than abide by what really does appear to be a neutral doctrine on its face." –Andy Mergen [29:20]
"This is a profoundly important tool for the lower courts, to get their handle on issues that they’re confronting every day from agencies. It’s a really, really important framework for promoting stability and rule of law values. I think we would lose a lot if we were overturning Chevron." –Andy Mergen [48:10]
"Even if you overturn Chevron, you can't avoid the fundamental problem, which is that Congress is giving agencies a job to do, and they need to have some flexibility interpreting their mandates" –Jody Freeman [53:55]