
CleanLaw
The Harvard Law School Environmental & Energy Law Program influences policy discussions about environmental, climate, and energy issues. The EELP offers robust legal analysis and practical governance solutions that will move these discussions forward.
Latest episodes

May 13, 2025 • 53min
EP103—The Future of Environmental Justice with MA AG Andrea Campbell and Vernice Miller-Travis
EELP Senior Staff Attorney Hannah Perls speaks with the Attorney General of Massachusetts, Andrea Joy Campbell, and Vernice Miller-Travis, Executive Vice President and Environmental Justice Lead at the Metropolitan Group. They discuss the Trump administration’s efforts to dismantle federal environmental justice and equity programs, funding, and priorities, and what those changes mean for critical infrastructure, toxics-free housing, access to clean air and clean water, and more. They also discuss what states and community-based organizations are doing in this moment to safeguard public health and environmental protections in Massachusetts and nationwide.
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/CleanLaw_EP103-Transcript.pdf
Links:
Multi-State Guidance Concerning Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Accessibility Employment Initiatives, from 16 state attorneys general, Feb. 13, 2025 https://www.mass.gov/doc/multi-state-guidance-concerning-diversity-equity-inclusion-and-accessibility-employment-initiatives/download
Toxic Wastes and Race in the United States, a report from the United Church of Christ’s Commission for Racial Justice, 1987 https://www.ucc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ToxicWastesRace.pdf
Searchable map of facilities invited by EPA to apply for presidential exemptions from air pollution limits, compiled by EDF, April 30, 2025 https://www.edf.org/maps/epa-pollution-pass/

11 snips
Apr 30, 2025 • 54min
Ep102—Unpacking the White House’s Legal Strategy for Attacking Environmental Protection
In this discussion, Ari Peskoe, a director at EELP focused on electricity law, and Carrie Jenks, EELP's executive director, dive into President Trump's latest executive orders affecting energy and climate. They dissect the implications of deregulation and the challenge to state energy policies, especially regarding the coal industry. Concerns about funding freezes for clean energy initiatives arise, alongside discussions on environmental grants and litigation risks. The dialogue highlights the evolving legal landscape and possible overreach in environmental regulations, sparking broader implications for public health.

8 snips
Mar 23, 2025 • 37min
Ep 101—Who Will Pay for Data Centers’ Massive Power Bills? It’s Probably You.
Eliza Martin, an EELP Fellow at Harvard Law School, joins Ari Peskoe to discuss the financial implications of data centers on utility rates. They unveil how tech giants like Amazon and Google negotiate attractive power rates, affecting everyday consumers. The duo highlights the hidden costs passed to residential ratepayers through opaque contracts and raises concerns about the expansion of infrastructure. They also examine the complex relationship between data centers and utility companies, particularly the environmental and financial challenges posed by co-location with nuclear plants.

Feb 13, 2025 • 59min
Ep 100—Trump’s Bold Reversal on Energy and Climate Policy: ‘It’s a Lot’
EELP founding director and Harvard Law Professor Jody Freeman speaks with Harvard Law Professor Richard Lazarus, Andy Mergen, director of the Harvard Law Emmett Environmental Law and Policy Clinic, and Carrie Jenks, executive director of the Environmental and Energy Law Program. They discuss the Trump administration’s actions to date on climate, energy, environment, and natural resources and break down which actions have an immediate effect, what will take time, and what they will be watching for, including actions affecting the federal workforce. They also discuss why the practice and study of law matter now more than ever.
Transcript at https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/CleanLaw_EP100-Transcript.pdf
Our analysis of the Trump administration's initial executive orders https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/trumps-environmental-and-energy-executive-orders-initial-insights-and-what-were-watching/
Our rollback resources https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/topic/rollback-resources/
Our Regulatory Tracker https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/tracker-type/regulatory-tracker/
Our Federal Environmental Justice Tracker https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/tracker-type/environmental-justice-tracker/

Dec 2, 2024 • 42min
Ep 99—Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, Part II: Environmental Justice Lawyering in Practice
EELP senior staff attorney Hannah Perls speaks with speaks with Debbie Chizewer and Nick Leonard about environmental justice lawyering, including leveraging Title VI of the Civil Rights Act on behalf of frontline communities. Debbie Chizewer is a managing attorney with Earthjustice based in Chicago, where she leads the organization's Midwest litigation strategy. Nick Leonard is the executive director of the Great Lakes Environmental Law Center based in Detroit, which provides legal representation to communities across Michigan.
This is the second episode in a 2-part series on Title VI.
Transcript at https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/CleanLaw_EP99.pdf
Links mentioned in episode:
Episode I in this series https://soundcloud.com/user-995691545/ep-9860-years-of-title-vi-of-the-civil-rights-act-part-1-la-v-epa
Great Lakes Environmental Law Center https://glelc.org/
Earthjustice Midwest Office https://earthjustice.org/office/midwest
CARE v. EPA, No. 4:15-03292-SBA (N.D. Cal.) https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/114.20order20032030202018.pdf
US Ecology Agreement between Michigan EGLE and Complainants https://www.sierraclub.org/sites/default/files/2024-08/title-vi-use-north-2024-08-29-title-vi-complaint-agreement-complaint-no-20-001-d-use-north-final_.pdf

Oct 25, 2024 • 40min
Ep 98—60 Years of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, Part 1: LA v EPA
EELP Senior Staff Attorney Hannah Perls speaks with Olatunde Johnson, the Ruth Bader Ginsburg Professor of Law at Columbia Law School. Professor Johnson and Hannah discuss the history and evolution of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, a crucial legal tool for the environmental justice movement. Earlier this year, a federal judge blocked EPA and the Department of Justice from enforcing their Title VI rules prohibiting actions that disparately impact communities of color in the state of Louisiana, and now those rules are at risk of being struck down nationwide.
This is the first episode in a 2-part series on Title VI.
Transcript at https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/CleanLaw_EP98.pdf
Links mentioned in show:
Louisiana v EPA - https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024.08.22-cain-judgement.pdf
Our podcast on the "Quagmire Quartet" Suite of Supreme Court Decisions Undermine Administrative Law -https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/cleanlaw-suite-of-supreme-court-decisions-undermine-administrative-law/
Petition for Rulemaking on Title VI from Republican-led Attorneys General - https://www.myfloridalegal.com/sites/default/files/2024-04/epa-title-vi-comment-final.pdf
Response to Petition for Rulemaking from Environmental Justice and Civil Rights Groups - https://www.nclc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024.09.04_Letter_Title-VI-Response-cover-letter-executive-summary-response-letter.pdf
Democratic AGs’ Response to the Petition for Rulemaking - https://stateimpactcenter.org/files/AG_Actions_NY_Response_FL_Rulemaking_Petition_9.5.24.pdf
Olatunde C. Johnson, Lawyering That Has No Name: Title VI and the Meaning of Private Enforcement, 66 Stan. L. Rev. 1293 (2014). - https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/1094/

Aug 22, 2024 • 45min
Monumental Decisions: The Antiquities Act and Presidential Authority
EELP senior staff attorney Sara Dewey speaks with Andy Mergen, Faculty Director of the Emmett Environmental Law and Policy Clinic at Harvard Law School and former chief of the Appellate Section of the Environment & Natural Resources Division at the Department of Justice. Andy and Sara discuss the origin and evolution of presidential authority to designate national monuments under the Antiquities Act, how Congress and the courts have responded to these designations over the act’s 118-year history, present day legal challenges to the Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments, and what could be ahead for monuments in the Supreme Court.
Transcript here https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CleanLaw_EP97-final.pdf

9 snips
Jul 12, 2024 • 59min
Ep 96—Suite of Supreme Court Decisions Undermine Administrative Law
Andy Mergen discusses recent Supreme Court decisions undermining administrative agencies with Jody Freeman. They analyze the 'Quagmire Quartet' of cases, centralization of power in the judiciary, challenges for federal agencies, and hope for upholding important federal rules.

Jun 13, 2024 • 53min
Ep 95—The Road to Clean Cars and Clean Air: California's Pivotal Role
California has had a pivotal role in creating US clean car and clean air regulations under multiple administrations. In this episode, EELP Founding Director and Harvard Law Professor, Jody Freeman, speaks with Mary Nichols, former Chair of the California Air Resources Board and California's Secretary for Natural Resources, as well as former Assistant Administrator for EPA's Office of Air and Radiation. They discuss California's role in driving car and air emissions regulation, how automakers and market forces have evolved since the 1970s, and what may happen in the coming years under either election outcome.
Transcript: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Jody-and-Mary-episode-95.pdf

Jun 11, 2024 • 59min
Ep 94—FERC’s New Approach to Improving Transmission Investment, Order No. 1920
Ari Peskoe, director of our Electricity Law Initiative, speaks with Claire Wayner, senior associate at RMI's Carbon-Free Electricity program, and Casey Baker senior program manager at GridLab. They discuss how the utility industry thinks about building new high-voltage transmission lines and how FERC Order No. 1920 attempts to push the industry to develop more transmission to accommodate new, clean sources of electricity while maintaining a reliable and affordable power system.
Transcript (pdf): https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CleanLaw_EP94.pdf