
When the Facts Change
Hosted by journalist Bernard Hickey, When the Facts Change is your essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa New Zealand. Presented by The Spinoff together with Kiwibank.Visit kiwibank.co.nz to find out how Kiwibank are making Kiwi better off
Latest episodes

Nov 10, 2022 • 33min
Nicola Willis is breaking from tradition
The National Party's Deputy Leader has spoken out against The Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr, calling for an independent review if National are elected in 2023. Skyrocketing house prices and record-high inflation are being blamed on The Government's money printing scheme during the COVID-19 pandemic. Willis says an external review would answer the question - how can this be avoided in the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 3, 2022 • 49min
Another broken relationship with the Crown
As central and local government battle for asset control, the lack of investment in infrastructure becomes an ever-growing issue. Bernard talks to former Auckland Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse about the tension between these forms of government and how it can be mended - what has ruptured in these relationships and why does it matter? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 27, 2022 • 34min
How effective is our environmental spending?
Aotearoa’s Government spends $2b a year on the environment, but where does that money go? Backed by his recently published report on our tracking of emissions, Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Simon Upton dives into discussion with Bernard Hickey on the importance of collective clarity and knowledge in the measurement of our environmental spending. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 20, 2022 • 34min
How green is your building?
Building developers and funders are scrambling to work out how much carbon dioxide is emitted or captured in a building’s construction and operation over its lifetime. Jasmax’s Carbon Research Lead, Paul Jurasovich, joins Bernard to map out the new world of carbon budgeting for buildings (such as the five star green-rated Kiwibank corporate office in Auckland). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 13, 2022 • 40min
Using NFTs and engineered wood to solve housing problems
Professor Anthony Hoete is trying to solve some of the biggest housing problems in Te Ao Māori with new tools and technology. He talks with Bernard Hickey on This weeks When the Facts Change about using NFTs to bring together dispersed iwi land titles and engineered timber to turn iwi forests into homes that are carbon sinks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 6, 2022 • 41min
How to mark a B Corp
Kiwibank has just produced its first sustainability report as a B Corp, paving the way for big organisations joining the ESG reporting movement. But what does a pass mark look like? How can the marking process be used to do better? CEO Steve Jurkovich joins Bernard in conversation to korero about what Kiwibank did to its climate emissions, how it measured pay equity and what can be done to help fund Māori housing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 29, 2022 • 45min
The build-to-rent solution
Private rentals owned by ‘Mum and Dad’ landlords are expensive and unstable, making it difficult for tenants and their tamariki to settle into their communities and schools. As renting becomes a long-term reality for more and more of us, is there a better way? In this episode, Bernard is joined by Helen O’Sullivan, CEO of Crockers Property Group, to talk about one possible solution, and what policy tweaks the government needs to make to help it grow. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 22, 2022 • 53min
The three horsemen of our housing apocalypse
It's evident to those living in Aotearoa that doing so does not come cheap, but did you know our housing and rental affordability is the worst in the world? Treasury Chief Economist Dominick Stephens went hunting with a team of Government experts for the reasons why. Revealing the three key factors driving our housing market, Stephens deep dives into conversation with Bernard Hickey on how the combination of lower interest rates, land use restrictions and our tax system has caused such an explosion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 15, 2022 • 45min
So who 'owns' the car parks?
The great battle for walkable cities that prioritise cyclists and pedestrians over cars has only just begun. In this battle, Waka Kotahi is a key player in deciding how this battle plays out. In this week's episode, Bernard Hickey talks to Waka Kotahi's urban mobile manager Kathryn King to find out how mode shift might be allowed, or made to happen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 8, 2022 • 39min
Economics 101 for housing supply
Bernard Hickey dives deep into the demand and supply factors behind our endemic housing shortages with Kiwibank economist Jeremy Couchman, including what they might mean for house prices. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices