
When the Facts Change
When the Facts Change, Hosted by journalist Bernard Hickey, When the Facts Change is your essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa New Zealand. Presented by The Spinoff. When the Facts Change is currently on hiatus and is open for sponsorship. For more details, contact bec@thespinoff.co.nz
Latest episodes

Jul 10, 2025 • 29min
Going up after digging down
Billions has been spent on the construction of Auckland’s City Rail Link, largely at the cost of taxpayers and ratepayers. The current Auckland council zoning rules, however, prevent the building of high-rise residential and commercial buildings at Mt Eden, Kingsland and Morningside stations. Sooner or later, something has got to give.
CBRE director of residential research Tamba Carleton joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the need for Auckland to grow up, and grow upwards, in order to make the most of it’s brand new tunnel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jul 3, 2025 • 20min
To cut or not to cut?
The Reserve Bank gets another chance to cut interest rates next week. So far 2025 has seen the RBNZ make three consecutive cuts to the official cash rate, which was widely expected by economists up and down the country. But next week, for the first time this year, there’s doubt.
Kiwibank economist Sabrina Delgado joins Bernard Hickey to assess our central bank’s options leading into next week’s monetary policy statement. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 19, 2025 • 33min
Post Covid hybrid work
Megan Alexander, Managing Director of Robert Half NZ, shares her insights on the evolving landscape of hybrid work post-COVID. She discusses how the balance of power has shifted back to employers as job markets adjust. Interestingly, younger workers are expressing a preference for open office environments, seeking social interaction over remote isolation. The podcast explores strategies for maintaining productivity and culture in hybrid settings, alongside the importance of prioritizing long-term employee well-being amidst short-term business pressures.

Jun 12, 2025 • 34min
How big do we want to be?
It’s no secret that Aotearoa is facing a range of monumental infrastructure challenges — much has been made lately of the state of our water pipes, ferries, railways and roads. Successive generations of decision makers have kicked the infrastructure maintenance can down the road, and now we are facing a huge bill if we want to keep pace with our growing population.
Infrastructure NZ chief executive Nick Leggett joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the scale of the infrastructure challenge facing New Zealand, and how overseas countries have approached similar issues.
Ultimately, it all comes down to one key question: how big do we want our population to be in the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

9 snips
Jun 5, 2025 • 36min
An abundance of energy
Mike Casey, CEO of Rewiring Aotearoa, leads the charge for New Zealand's energy transformation. He dives into the urgent need for electrification to combat climate change and improve living costs. The discussion highlights innovative financing solutions to encourage electric vehicle adoption and explores the balance between local energy resilience and global geopolitical dynamics, particularly regarding China and the U.S. Casey underscores how this shift can economically benefit both individuals and businesses, paving the way for a sustainable future.

May 29, 2025 • 26min
Dissension in the RBNZ ranks
Mary Jo Vergara, an economist from Kiwibank, dives into the Reserve Bank of New Zealand's recent official cash rate cut and the surprising dissent within the committee. She discusses the uncertain economic landscape influenced by global factors like tariffs and inflation, and the implications for New Zealand's recovery. The conversation touches on how interest rate changes affect mortgage rates, living costs, and the housing market. Should we brace for a storm in the economy or see a silver lining? Tune in to find out!

May 22, 2025 • 30min
Budget special: When The Facts Change x Gone By Lunchtime
Dive into the complexities of a growth budget and its real impacts on society. Explore whether tax depreciation changes really fuel economic growth or just favor certain demographics. The effects of recent budget cuts on youth and the unemployed are scrutinized, raising questions about equity. Also, hear about the influence of global economic fluctuations on local budget decisions and the challenges of balancing fiscal restraint with social responsibility. A critical look at what truly shapes our economic landscape.

May 15, 2025 • 36min
Let the Budget battles commence
Fresh off a pre-Budget speech that took aim at the recent changes to pay equity, Labour Party leader Chris Hipkins joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the government’s plans to cut $4.4 billion of spending over the next four years. What are the potential downsides of Nicola Willis’ austerity approach to budget management? What other types of debt might we be accruing without realising it? Listen in to find out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

May 8, 2025 • 29min
Warmer, drier - and cheaper in the long run
In 2010, the NZ Green Building Council introduced the Homestar sustainability certification, a framework that aims to allow designers, architects and builders to build better, more environmentally friendly, energy efficient housing. The upfront cost of building to the Homestar certification can be more, but the potential savings over time - not to mention the quality of life improvements - are significant.
Brad Olsen from Infometrics, an economic consultancy that has just published a detailed report on the Homestar certification, joins Bernard Hickey to dig into the broad range of benefits of Homestar-rated housing, for both the planet and the back pocket. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

May 1, 2025 • 29min
Housing market psychology 101
This week, Bernard Hickey dives into the psychology of the housing market and talks to realestate.co.nz CEO Sarah Wood about why so many home sellers are holding on and simply not selling, rather than lowering their price to “meet the market” and “clear the market” in a way other markets do when there’s too much supply and not enough demand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices