
When the Facts Change
Hosted by journalist Bernard Hickey, When the Facts Change is your essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa New Zealand. Presented by The Spinoff together with Kiwibank.Visit kiwibank.co.nz to find out how Kiwibank are making Kiwi better off
Latest episodes

Jun 19, 2025 • 33min
Post Covid hybrid work
Many bosses now want their workers back in the office full time, but for a while in the immediate aftermath of Covid, workers had the power to demand the flexibility to stay home. Now the jobs market has sagged, the balance has shifted and a new hybrid way of working is becoming more common. Bernard Hickey speaks on this week’s When The Facts Change with Robert Half NZ MD Megan Alexander about these trends, including those younger workers who prefer a nice open plan office to a pokey, mouldy flat.
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Jun 12, 2025 • 34min
How big do we want to be?
It’s no secret that Aotearoa is facing a range of monumental infrastructure challenges — much has been made lately of the state of our water pipes, ferries, railways and roads. Successive generations of decision makers have kicked the infrastructure maintenance can down the road, and now we are facing a huge bill if we want to keep pace with our growing population.
Infrastructure NZ chief executive Nick Leggett joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the scale of the infrastructure challenge facing New Zealand, and how overseas countries have approached similar issues.
Ultimately, it all comes down to one key question: how big do we want our population to be in the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

9 snips
Jun 5, 2025 • 36min
An abundance of energy
Mike Casey, CEO of Rewiring Aotearoa, leads the charge for New Zealand's energy transformation. He dives into the urgent need for electrification to combat climate change and improve living costs. The discussion highlights innovative financing solutions to encourage electric vehicle adoption and explores the balance between local energy resilience and global geopolitical dynamics, particularly regarding China and the U.S. Casey underscores how this shift can economically benefit both individuals and businesses, paving the way for a sustainable future.

May 29, 2025 • 26min
Dissension in the RBNZ ranks
Mary Jo Vergara, an economist from Kiwibank, dives into the Reserve Bank of New Zealand's recent official cash rate cut and the surprising dissent within the committee. She discusses the uncertain economic landscape influenced by global factors like tariffs and inflation, and the implications for New Zealand's recovery. The conversation touches on how interest rate changes affect mortgage rates, living costs, and the housing market. Should we brace for a storm in the economy or see a silver lining? Tune in to find out!

May 22, 2025 • 30min
Budget special: When The Facts Change x Gone By Lunchtime
Dive into the complexities of a growth budget and its real impacts on society. Explore whether tax depreciation changes really fuel economic growth or just favor certain demographics. The effects of recent budget cuts on youth and the unemployed are scrutinized, raising questions about equity. Also, hear about the influence of global economic fluctuations on local budget decisions and the challenges of balancing fiscal restraint with social responsibility. A critical look at what truly shapes our economic landscape.

May 15, 2025 • 36min
Let the Budget battles commence
Fresh off a pre-Budget speech that took aim at the recent changes to pay equity, Labour Party leader Chris Hipkins joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the government’s plans to cut $4.4 billion of spending over the next four years. What are the potential downsides of Nicola Willis’ austerity approach to budget management? What other types of debt might we be accruing without realising it? Listen in to find out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

May 8, 2025 • 29min
Warmer, drier - and cheaper in the long run
In 2010, the NZ Green Building Council introduced the Homestar sustainability certification, a framework that aims to allow designers, architects and builders to build better, more environmentally friendly, energy efficient housing. The upfront cost of building to the Homestar certification can be more, but the potential savings over time - not to mention the quality of life improvements - are significant.
Brad Olsen from Infometrics, an economic consultancy that has just published a detailed report on the Homestar certification, joins Bernard Hickey to dig into the broad range of benefits of Homestar-rated housing, for both the planet and the back pocket. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

May 1, 2025 • 29min
Housing market psychology 101
This week, Bernard Hickey dives into the psychology of the housing market and talks to realestate.co.nz CEO Sarah Wood about why so many home sellers are holding on and simply not selling, rather than lowering their price to “meet the market” and “clear the market” in a way other markets do when there’s too much supply and not enough demand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Apr 24, 2025 • 39min
How do we create the ‘2degrees Effect’ for supermarkets, banking and electricity?
More than half of consumer spending is dominated one way or another by a collection of monopolies, duopolies and quadropolies that generate higher prices and profits than would be normal if there was true and tough competition, as a myriad of market studies and inquiries have found for supermarkets, fuel retailing, building materials, electricity, banking, insurance and real estate agencies. Twenty years of finger-wagging and report writing has failed in all of these sectors, except for telecommunications, where an aggressive breakup of a monopoly (Telecom) and regulation of number portability and interchange fees, along with the arrival of third competitor in 2degrees, sparked a flourishing of competition and ever-lower prices for ever-more data. The Reserve Bank called it the “2degrees Effect” in creating deflation for a significant part of the economy. Bernard Hickey talks to Monopoly Watch spokesman and one of the founders of 2degrees, Tex Edwards, about how to create the “2degrees Effect” for supermarkets, banking and electricity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Apr 17, 2025 • 34min
An AI-powered startup
Bernard Hickey talks to the co-founders of Christchurch-based AI start-up, Contented. Lucy Pink and Hannah Hardy-Jones tell their story from meeting over coffee and jam, to working with US news publishers to turn live-streamed council meetings into news articles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices