We’re thrilled to welcome back Pastor James A. White, who challenges us to think deeply about the stories we’ve been told — and the ones we haven’t. Who decides which stories get remembered and which are forgotten? How has a Western lens shaped our understanding of the gospel? And what can happen when we truly honor the origin stories of everyone — individual cultures, histories, and experiences? Pastor White believes that our past holds the key to both understanding the present and shaping a better future. In a world where truth is often distorted or silenced, he calls us to reclaim the power of storytelling — to listen well, read with intention, and resist narratives that erase or exclude. Drawing from the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman, Pastor White highlights how Jesus intentionally crossed cultural divides to connect with and honor another’s story — a powerful example of wisdom, humility, and compassion. The conversation calls for greater humility and curiosity in how we engage with others' stories, especially those shaped by trauma, resistance, and survival, while acknowledging the ways history and power influence how stories are told and remembered.  

We’re continuing our conversation with Rev. Dr. David Rice about confronting Christian nationalism—a topic we’re diving into because of the ways that it can deeply affect our faith, our communities, and how we engage with one another in this shifting cultural and political landscape. In our last episode, David shared his personal story—how his upbringing, ministry experiences, and cultural shifts shaped his understanding of faith and politics. We explored the unique challenges pastors face in addressing these issues from the pulpit and the tension of being accused of getting "too political" when speaking out about national concerns. If you haven’t had a chance to listen yet, we encourage you to go back and catch up on that conversation first. In this episode, we’ll dig deeper into: What Christian nationalism is and why it’s a critical issue for people of faith, Our collective longing for control—something humanity has wrestled with since the very beginning—and how this longing fuels Christian nationalism, And how we can thoughtfully engage with our friends, neighbors, and fellow believers in conversations about these challenging issues. We hope our conversation with David sparks some new thoughts or insights into how power is being used, where our faith fits into these conversations, and how we can move forward in meaningful, compassionate ways. About Our Guest: Rev. Dr. David Rice is BJC’s digital strategist, leading online engagement for the organization and its Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign. BJC is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization that brings people together to tackle today’s serious threats to religious liberty, including the targeting of religious minorities, the rise of Christian nationalism, and the politicization of houses of worship. Ordained in the American Baptist Churches USA, Rice joined BJC’s staff in 2024 after previously serving in rural parish ministry and starting his own communications consulting firm. Rice earned a Doctor of Ministry degree in missiology and organizational leadership from Western Theological Seminary and a Master of Divinity degree from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. His undergraduate degree is from Huntington University, where he studied youth ministry and Bible. Rice, who has lived on the West Coast and in the UK, now lives in Michigan with his family. He enjoys cycling, gardening, cross-country skiing, sourdough bread baking, traveling, and Arsenal football.  

Christian nationalism is a growing issue in the U.S., raising important questions about the relationship between faith and politics.  How does our faith shape the way we engage with political issues? And are our political allegiances influencing our faith in ways we may not realize? While we’re certainly not a news or political network, this is a timely and necessary conversation. Power—both religious and political—can be used to bring about justice and healing, but it can also be wielded in ways that cause harm. In the first episode of a two-part conversation, we're joined by Rev. Dr. David Rice, an alumnus of The Seattle School and Digital Strategist for BJC, where he leads online engagement and the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign.  David begins by sharing his personal story—how his upbringing, ministry experiences, and cultural influences shaped his understanding of faith and politics. He also speaks to the challenges pastors and faith leaders face when addressing national issues from the pulpit, often being accused of being “too political.” We invite you to come back next week for part two of this conversation as David, Dan, and Rachael dive deeper—defining Christian nationalism, exploring our collective longing for control, and considering how we can engage with our communities in meaningful ways.  

In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen welcomes back Dr. J. Derek McNeil, President and Provost of The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, for a thoughtful conversation about navigating today’s fragmented world with hope, kindness, and connection. They explore how uncertainty, institutional distrust, and cultural polarization have left many feeling unmoored.  As people of faith, we are called to love God and our neighbors—but how do we do this in a world that feels so divided?  Regardless of religious, political, or personal identity, we all feel the effects of fragmentation. We are in search of a new story—a story that can hold us together. Dr. McNeil reflects on the deep need for community and the dangers of isolating in survival mode. Together, they discuss the challenge of living faithfully amid social, political, and relational fractures. If you’re grappling with feelings of disconnection or isolation, or if you’ve been wondering how to engage with others in a fractured world, tune in for a powerful conversation about finding hope, purpose, and co-creating a renewed sense of belonging.  

Valentine’s Day is often wrapped in commercialized romance, but what if love is more than sentimentality? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore an aspect of love that we all need—kindness. But not the shallow, conflict-avoidant “niceness” we often mistake for kindness. Instead, they dive into the disruptive, provocative nature of true kindness—kindness that challenges, disrupts old patterns, and calls us into deeper growth. Kindness asks us to receive care and, sometimes, even risk disconnection for the sake of deeper intimacy. Together, Dan and Rachael unpack how true kindness is an act of restoration. They discuss the surprising, ennobling nature of kindness and how it reflects the heart of God—a love that offers goodness even when we least deserve it. So, as we navigate a day often filled with roses and greeting cards, let’s consider the kind of love that truly transforms—the kind that sees, knows, and calls us toward who we long to become.  

Charlie Peacock, a Grammy Award-winning music producer and author, shares his vibrant journey in the world of music and creativity. He delves into the challenges of writing a memoir, balancing personal storytelling with public expectations. The conversation explores the profound connection between creativity and spirituality, illustrating how art reflects deeper truths. Charlie also reflects on his heritage and identity, discussing the transformative role of music in shaping who we are. His personal anecdotes reveal music's power as a healing force.

Healing is a profound journey that goes beyond fixing oneself; it's about embracing your true self. Community support is crucial during this non-linear process, reminding us we're not alone. The interplay of emotional and physical wellness highlights how love for ourselves enhances our impact on others. Forgiveness is key, aiding our health rather than merely absolving others. It’s a messy journey, but with intentional choices and the support of relationships, transformation becomes possible.

Join Adam Young, a counselor known for his insights on personal narratives, and Cathy Loerzel, who emphasizes the transformative power of storytelling, as they chat with Dan Allender about the art of story work. They delve into how engaging with personal narratives can heal past traumas and enrich present relationships. Discover why understanding your family of origin is crucial for growth and how childhood stories shape your identity. The conversation invites introspection and highlights the importance of self-compassion in the healing journey.

To celebrate the forthcoming release of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, co-authored by Dan Allender and Steve Call, Dan and Becky Allender reflect on their own marriage story — its unique dynamics, the challenges they’ve faced, and the redemptive journey they’ve walked together.  They open up about how their family-of-origin stories shaped their relationship in ways they didn’t initially realize and the intentional work it took to build new, healthier ways of connecting, particularly over the past decade. Whether you’re married, dating, or reflecting on other relationships in your life, we think Dan and Becky’s vulnerability and hard-earned insights will resonate with anyone who has felt stuck in a pattern or wondered how to move forward toward healing. Their story is a powerful reminder that meaningful growth takes time, courage, kindness, and the willingness to engage your stories — together. Be sure to get your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, available here on Amazon or at your favorite bookseller on January 21, 2025.

Becky Allender sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen for a one-on-one conversation. Becky reflects on how she and Dan have experienced profound transformation in their marriage, particularly since the Allender Center was founded in 2011. It was during this time that they began practicing the fundamentals of story engagement within their own relationship—a journey that not only changed their lives but also inspired the Marriage offerings at the Allender Center.  No matter what season you’re in—whether your relationship is new or you’ve been married for decades like Dan and Becky—there’s always something new to learn. Every step offers a chance to meet one another with greater kindness, compassion, and understanding. Next week, Dan will rejoin the podcast conversation, but today, we hope you enjoy this episode with Becky and Rachael as they share their wisdom and reflections on marriage and connection. Listener Resources: Check out Hidden in Plain Sight by Becky Allender. Read some of Becky Allender's blog posts. Pre-order your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage by Dan Allender and Steve Call.