Life After Ministry

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary Dane Sanders shares his journey from vocational ministry to his current work with Men and Women of Discomfort. He discusses the challenges faced in vocational ministry and the need for better transitions and support within the Christian community. Dane explains the concept of Men and Women of Discomfort, a program that focuses on intentional discomfort to foster personal growth and strength. The goal is to be strong and awake for love's sake. He emphasizes the importance of community in this process and the power of suffering together. This conversation explores the power of community and authentic confession in the context of discomfort. It highlights the difference between Men and Women of Discomfort and other programs, emphasizing the focus on wholeheartedness rather than perfection. The conversation delves into the concept of the Valley of Discomfort and the temptation to return to comfort, using the story of the buffalo as a metaphor for running towards the storm. It emphasizes the importance of perspective and purpose in suffering and encourages individuals to choose to embrace discomfort and not waste the season. The conversation also discusses shifting from 'I have to' to 'I get to' and relating to discomfort as building a cathedral. Finally, it offers guidance on taking the next step and getting in touch with Men and Women of Discomfort. Takeaways Vocational ministry often comes with challenges and transitions that can be difficult to navigate. The Christian community can struggle with effectively supporting individuals going through these transitions. Men and Women of Discomfort is a program that focuses on intentional discomfort to foster personal growth and strength. The goal is to be strong and awake for love's sake, living a life that is fully engaged and aligned with one's values. Community plays a crucial role in the process of intentional discomfort and personal growth. Community and authentic confession can be a powerful source of support and growth in times of discomfort. Men and Women of Discomfort focuses on wholeheartedness rather than perfection, setting it apart from other programs. The Valley of Discomfort can be a challenging place, but it is where growth and transformation happen. Running towards discomfort, like the buffalo running towards the storm, can lead to finding the 'good stuff' and developing resilience. Having the right perspective and purpose in suffering can help individuals navigate and make the most of difficult seasons. Choosing to embrace discomfort and seeing it as an opportunity to grow and become stronger can lead to a more fulfilling life. Shifting from 'I have to' to 'I get to' can change one's mindset and attitude towards discomfort. Relating to discomfort as building a cathedral can help individuals see the value and purpose in their struggles. Taking the next step and getting in touch with Men and Women of Discomfort can provide guidance and support for those seeking to navigate discomfort. There is life after ministry and opportunities for ministry in different seasons of life. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 07:20 - Challenges in Vocational Ministry 13:08 - Transitioning and the Christian Community 17:25 - Moving Forward After Ministry 20:33 - Men and Women of Discomfort 26:38 - The Goal: Strong and Awake for Love's Sake 36:42 - The Importance of Community 44:38 - The Power of Community and Authentic Confession 45:31 - The Difference Between Men and Women of Discomfort and Other Programs 48:01 - The Valley of Discomfort and the Temptation to Return to Comfort 50:16 - The Story of the Buffalo and Running Towards the Storm 54:25 - The Importance of Perspective and Purpose in Suffering 57:02 - Choosing to Embrace Discomfort and Not Waste the Season 01:01:33 - Shifting from 'I Have to' to 'I Get to' 01:02:16 - Relating to Discomfort as Building a Cathedral 01:05:04 - Taking the Next Step and Getting in Touch 01:06:12 - Life After Ministry and Ministry After Ministry

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary In this episode of the Life After Ministry podcast, titled "Ministry In The Military," we explore a path that many pastors might not have considered: becoming a military chaplain. Our guest, Chaplain Jordan Huggins, shares his firsthand experience serving in both the US Air Force and Space Force. For pastors wrestling with "what's next?" Jordan's journey offers a compelling glimpse into a role where ministry skills are not just useful but vital. Serving as a military chaplain brings unique challenges but also profound opportunities to support service members and their families through spiritual guidance and pastoral care. Jordan talks about what it takes to step into this role, the kind of impact you can expect to have, and why it's been fulfilling for him. If you're at a crossroads in your ministry career, curious about military chaplaincy, or simply seeking a new avenue where your pastoral skills can make a difference, this conversation is for you. It's a straightforward look at an option that could be your next calling—a chance to serve those who serve. Chaplain Jordan Huggins shares his journey from military to ministry and back to the military as a chaplain. He discusses the challenges and rewards of ministering to airmen and guardians, providing counseling and support in various situations. Chaplain Huggins also explains the process of becoming a military chaplain and offers guidance for those interested in pursuing this path. He emphasizes the importance of ministry beyond the walls of the church and the privilege of being with people on their worst days. Takeaways Transitioning from military to ministry and back to the military as a chaplain is a unique and fulfilling path. Chaplains play a crucial role in providing counseling and support to military personnel, addressing their spiritual and emotional needs. Becoming a military chaplain requires an MDiv degree or a master's degree in theology, religious studies, and endorsement from a denomination or faith group. The process of joining as a chaplain takes about four to six months and involves a thorough evaluation of qualifications and physical fitness. Ministry after ministry extends beyond the walls of the church and involves being present with people in their most challenging moments. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:28 - Transition from Military to Ministry 03:11 - Existential Crisis and Return to Faith 04:10 - Ministry Life and Experience 05:27 - Return to Military as a Chaplain 07:18 - Needs of Airmen and Guardians 08:43 - Counseling and Support for Military Personnel 10:04 - Becoming a Military Chaplain 13:10 - Process of Joining as a Chaplain 14:22 - Next Steps for Those Interested 15:17 - Ministry After Ministry 17:10 - Closing Remarks

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary Dr. Dee Dee Mayer discusses the importance of board governance within the church and the need for training and support for governing boards. She shares her research on the role of elder boards in supporting wellness in pastoral leadership and the challenges they face. Dr. Mayer emphasizes the importance of selecting board members based on spiritual maturity and creating a culture of accountability and healthy conflict resolution. She provides nine essential conversations for governing boards to have, including defining culture, guiding principles for recruitment, and managing difficult leaders. Dr. Mayer highlights the need for proactive leadership to prevent church hurt and create a space for healing. Takeaways Board governance is crucial for supporting wellness in pastoral leadership and preventing leadership failure within the church. Elder boards often lack training and preparation, leading to a disconnect between the board and the pastors they serve. Selecting board members based on spiritual maturity and wisdom is essential for effective governance. Creating a culture of accountability, healthy conflict resolution, and proactive leadership is necessary for preventing church hurt and promoting healing. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:00 - Heartbreak over Leadership Failure 02:23 - The Role of Governing Boards 03:17 - Lack of Training for Elder Boards 04:35 - The Need for a System 06:16 - Selecting Board Members Based on Spiritual Maturity 07:11 - Balancing Success and Spiritual Qualifications 08:21 - Creating Healthy Ways to Navigate Conflict 10:19 - Essential Conversations for Governing Boards 13:47 - Structuring Roles and Responsibilities 15:16 - Maintaining Healthy Leadership 16:44 - Taking Care of Pastors and Their Families 17:26 - Creating Systems of Accountability 18:16 - Navigating Concerns and Allegations 19:06 - Managing Difficult Leaders 21:39 - Reactivity vs Proactivity in Elder Boards 23:08 - The Responsibility of Holding the Church 26:43 - Preventing Church Hurt 28:35 - Focusing on the Culture and System

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary It’s the reason we started the Life After Ministry podcast: the distressing experiences of leadership figures within the ministry who've faced the severe blow of unjust terminations or forced resignations. Join us as we explore this crucial topic with Dr. Matthew Tanner, founder of Wounded Leadership, an organization committed to offering restoration and healing for these traumatized leaders. Starting from his personal experiences, Dr. Tanner equates the transformative journey of these leaders with the smelting process of metal: uncomfortable yet crucial for ultimately achieving fortitude and resilience. Emphasizing the importance of community support during this healing period, he not only confronts the issue of wounded leaders but strategizes preemptive measures to avoid such incidents. Unveiling a structured four-step healing plan, Dr. Tanner discusses how such challenging experiences can lead to self-growth, reinforcing the necessity for self-care and constructing a stronger, more humble leader. Drawing from biblical instances, he provides comforting assurance that even revered religious figures have undergone similar struggles. The conversation underlines the role of the church in supporting pastors during their leaving process and subsequently, its responsibility in providing substantial severance and counseling services. Dr. Tanner provides a comprehensive guide to managing forced resignations and unjustified terminations. Dr. Tanner also introduces his book "The Wounded Pastor," along with details about an upcoming conference designed to aid pastors in dealing with challenging pastoral transitions. This episode is essential for anyone going through hard times within the ministry or facing their exit from it. Healing is on the horizon. Takeaways Unjustified terminations of pastors are a significant problem in evangelical denominations, affecting tens of thousands of pastors each year. Pastors who have been forced out of ministry often face isolation and struggle to find support networks. Healing from the wounds of termination involves economic, emotional, spiritual, and leadership development processes. Churches should handle terminations with generosity and care, providing severance, counseling, and assistance in finding the next step. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:02 - Personal Experience and Writing the Book 03:14 - Challenges and Questions in Ministry 05:37 - Extent of the Problem 07:05 - Isolation and the Need for Support 08:25 - Diversifying Relationships and Support Systems 09:23 - Balancing Personal and Church Relationships 11:45 - Transitioning from Pastor to Churchgoer 13:48 - Overcoming the Pastoral Mindset 14:46 - The Healing Journey for Wounded Pastors 19:51 - The Process of Termination and Wounding 22:23 - The Importance of Generosity and Care in Termination 26:18 - Promoting Healing through the Book and Conference 30:47 - Collaboration and Support for Wounded Pastors

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary In this episode of the "Life After Ministry" podcast, Dillon Fawcett candidly shares his unique journey, transitioning from pastoral ministry and his entry point into the world of mental health counseling. With honesty and vulnerability, Dillon opens up about the ups and downs he experienced, the transitions that challenged him, and the invaluable lessons he's learned. His story is a powerful testament to the truth that life doesn't end after ministry – in fact, it can take on new, meaningful forms. Dillon's insights remind us that our pain and struggles are not in vain - they're instruments used by God to shape and refine us. Takeaways Post-Ministry Life: Transitioning out of ministry is challenging, yet it opens the door to new beginnings and avenues of purpose. Transformative Pain: Our struggles and pain can be the very experiences that catalyze personal growth and transformation. God's Refinement: God is intimately involved in our lives, using our challenges to refine our hearts and align us with His purpose. Ministry in Many Forms: Ministry isn't confined to the pulpit – avenues like counseling can be just as impactful in serving and guiding others. Joy and Trust in God: Finding joy and purpose in life's next chapter hinges on gratitude and a deep trust in God's overarching plan. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Dillon's Background 03:01 - Exploring Woodworking and Business Ventures 07:24 - Reflections on Pastoral Ministry 10:46 - The Emotional Landscape of Transitioning Out of Ministry 15:13 - Discovering Life and Purpose After Ministry 19:56 - Wilderness Lessons: Growth Amidst Challenges 22:44 - Supporting Others Facing Similar Transitions 26:06 - Unearthing Joy and Purpose in New Paths 29:20 - Continuing the Ministry Journey through Counseling 30:35 - Upcoming Projects and Podcast Plans 31:08 - Conclusion: Embracing the Journey Ahead

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary This conversation explores the experiences of Brian James and Michelle McMahon as they transitioned out of vocational ministry and created safe spaces for pastors and church leaders. They discuss the challenges of being in ministry, the importance of vulnerability and authenticity, and the need for safe and supportive communities. The conversation also touches on the role of female pastors and the redefinition of church. Overall, the discussion highlights the importance of cultivating trust and creating spaces where pastors can be brave and find healing. They discuss the importance of connection and how Church Well Co helps pastors and ministers overcome isolation and the concept of bravery and how it can foster safety and support within communities. Takeaways Transitions out of vocational ministry can be challenging and painful, but they can also lead to new opportunities for growth and healing. Creating safe spaces for pastors and church leaders is crucial for their well-being and the health of the church community. Vulnerability and authenticity are essential in building trust and deepening relationships. The role of female pastors in the church is important and should be valued and supported. Church Well Co offers virtual groups and communities for pastors and ministers to overcome isolation. Isolation is not limited to geographical boundaries, and Church Well Co also supports missionaries around the world. Engaging bravely with others can create a sense of safety and trust. Taking small steps of bravery can lead to meaningful connections and support. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:32 - Entering Ministry 03:07 - Transitions and Changes 04:17 - Personal Transitions Out of Ministry 07:03 - Creating Safe Spaces 10:49 - The Role of Female Pastors 12:19 - Redefining Church 14:27 - Creating Safe Spaces in the Church 20:13 - Life After Vocational Ministry 26:58 - Finding Purpose and Relevance 31:19 - Creating Safe Spaces for Pastors 36:20 - Cultivating Safety and Trust 42:17 - Hope for Those Longing for Authentic Relationships 45:57 - Connecting with Church Well Co 46:16 - Virtual Groups and Isolation 47:40 - Engaging Bravely

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary In this episode, Matt Davis interviews J. Ricardo Smith at the Classic City Conference in Athens, Georgia. They discuss the purpose and origins of the conference, the state of the black church post-COVID, the challenges of identity and transition in ministry, finding hope and help in difficult seasons, planning for the future of the conference, and the importance of mental health in ministry. J. Ricardo Smith shares his insights and experiences, emphasizing the need for community and support in pastoral leadership. Takeaways The Classic City Conference was created to provide resources and solutions for small to mid-sized church pastors. The COVID-19 pandemic had both positive and negative impacts on the black church, highlighting the need for shared leadership and addressing issues of identity and worth. Pastors need to recognize their value and worth outside of their role as a senior pastor and be open to transitions and new seasons in ministry. Finding hope and help in difficult seasons of ministry requires community, support, and access to resources like counseling and therapy. The Classic City Conference aims to offer ongoing support and resources beyond the annual event, helping pastors navigate the challenges of ministry. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to the Classic City Conference 04:04 - The State of the Black Church 08:23 - Identity and Transition in Ministry 10:12 - Finding Hope and Help in Ministry 12:02 - Planning for the Future of the Conference 14:19 - The Importance of Mental Health in Ministry 17:07 - Connecting with J. Ricardo Smith and Classic City Conference

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary Kyle and Maria Isabelli share their experience of being fired from their church ministry and the emotional impact it had on them. They discuss the process of being let go, the loss they felt, and the journey of healing and finding purpose again. Kyle wrote a book titled 'Refined by the Fired' to help others who have gone through similar experiences. They emphasize the importance of clear expectations and communication in ministry and the need for empathy and shepherding in leadership roles. Despite the challenges, they remain committed to ministry and continue to serve in their new roles. Takeaways Being fired from a church ministry can be a deeply emotional and challenging experience, resulting in a sense of loss and grief. Clear expectations and communication are crucial in ministry to avoid misunderstandings and conflicts. Going through the process of being fired can lead to personal growth, empathy, and a deeper understanding of the needs of staff and ministry workers. Finding purpose and healing after being fired requires reflection, processing pain, and relying on God's guidance and direction. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:00 - Transition into Ministry 03:44 - The Call to Ministry 05:40 - Transition Out of Ministry 07:49 - The Process of Being Let Go 09:49 - Emotional Impact and Loss 12:09 - Reflecting on the Experience 14:53 - Writing the Book 25:29 - Continuing in Ministry 30:13 - Book Release and Conclusion

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary As we wrap up an incredible first season of the "Life After Ministry" podcast, join us, Matt and Marilee Davis, in reflecting on the profound insights and heartwarming stories we've encountered. This journey hasn't just been about sharing stories - it's been a path of personal growth and unexpected joy for us too. Here are some pivotal takeaways that have resonated not just with our listeners, but deeply within our own lives: Embracing the Darkness in Transitions: One of the most powerful themes this season has been about leaning into the challenging emotions that accompany pastoral transitions. It's in acknowledging and embracing this darkness that many find transformation and growth. The Wilderness Season: We've talked about this being a necessary phase. It's in these moments of seeming solitude that reliance on God becomes paramount and where profound spiritual growth occurs. Surrender and Trust: The act of letting go and trusting in God's plan, though scary, is a crucial step in navigating these transitions. Paying it Forward: Our guests have shared how their experiences have equipped them to serve others in their new ministries, turning their challenges into opportunities for giving back. Breaking Isolation: Through sharing their stories, our guests have brought light to the often-isolated path that many pastors walk during transitions, offering hope and a sense of community. Endurance and Support: The journey through pastoral transition is not a sprint but a marathon, requiring endurance, patience, and a strong support system. Church's Role in Transition: We looked into the responsibility of churches to provide more than just spiritual guidance during these times but also companionship, direction, and practical help. Honoring Dignity in Transition: Exiting ministry roles can be filled with challenges, but there are compassionate ways to honor people's dignity throughout the process. Gratitude and Encouragement: Lastly, the importance of expressing gratitude and encouragement to pastors and church leaders cannot be overstated. It's crucial in building a supportive and understanding community. We've learned so much and have been deeply moved by the stories of resilience and faith. Thank you for joining us on this path. As we look forward to Season Two, let's continue to support and uplift each other, remembering that every transition can lead to a beautiful new beginning. You can support Pastors in transition by making a donation here.

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/  To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk    Summary Clayton Stenson shares his journey of transitioning from ministry to a new career and finding hope and purpose in life after ministry. He discusses his background in ministry, the challenges he faced, and the support he received during a difficult time of grief and loss. Clayton also highlights the transferable skills he gained from his ministry experience and how they have helped him succeed in his current role. He encourages others who are going through similar transitions to seek support and embrace new opportunities. Takeaways Transitioning from ministry to a new career can be challenging but also rewarding. Grief and loss can have a significant impact on one's life and ministry. Transferable skills gained from ministry, such as leadership, vision casting, and building systems, can be valuable in other professions. Finding support and community during times of transition is crucial for healing and growth. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:37 Entering Ministry 08:25 Leaving Ministry 12:11 Transitioning to a New Career 18:11 Transferable Skills from Ministry 21:30 Identity and Perspective 23:42 Encouragement and Hope 24:31 Reaching Out for Support 25:23 Conclusion Clayton Stenson is an innovator in the business coaching space. He is a former Pastor who made the shift to the marketplace 8 years ago. An operations expert, Clayton works with faith-driven construction and trades companies with $5-15 million in revenue that have hit a ceiling. He comes alongside the visionary owner and their leadership team to help them make their vision a reality. Often these visionaries are frustrated, tired, and are feeling discouraged that their business may never be able to run without them. They usually have made some progress toward this goal, but they need some help to get over the hump. Clayton helps them either through coaching or through fractional services. Clayton has also developed a powerful program to help visionaries and their second-in-commands find unity and leverage their opposite skill sets to develop the company that they dream of. The two of them have an incredible opportunity to work together, but because they are so different, they can have a hard time getting and staying on the same page. Clayton's Unity Rock Program is proven to get the most out of their Visionary/Second-in-Command relationship. Connect with Clayton at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theunityguide/