Pioneers and Pathfinders

Today we’re replaying our episode with Ilona Logvinova. When we spoke with Ilona, she was managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. Since then, she has become director of Practice Innovation at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. In our discussion, Ilona talked about her unique role at McKinsey, reimagining legal practice, and how collaboration can advance innovation efforts at legal organizations. Thank you for listening. We will return with brand new episodes on September 4th. This week’s guest is reimagining the way legal professionals work as we explore new frontiers in technology. We’re speaking with Ilona Logvinova of McKinsey & Company, a global management consulting firm. Ilona is managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. After working as a corporate lawyer for several years, and working in-house at Mastercard, she joined McKinsey as a technology lawyer, a position which ultimately evolved into her current dual role. As managing counsel, she serves a more traditional in-house legal role for McKinsey’s technology legal team. As Head of Innovation, she architects the innovation transformation journey for McKinsey’s legal department—a function that is still relatively new in the legal world. Additionally, Ilona is a frequent author, and writes about innovation and tech on McKinsey's legal blog and other forums. In our conversation, Ilona discusses her fascinating work at McKinsey, the nuances of adopting legal tech, training generative AI tools, and the importance of human centricity in legal innovation.

Last week, our virtual roundtable series returned with a fourth installment focusing on the company boardroom and how boards of directors can successfully navigate the high-stakes leadership decisions that are emerging with the rise of generative AI. Our panelists—Marissa Geist, Chief Executive Officer at Cielo Talent; Camille Olson, Partner at Seyfarth; and Paul Washington, President and CEO of the Society for Corporate Governance—considered the issues from both the perspective of board members, as well as key management stakeholders executing on company strategies. The panel covered a variety of topics: how the implementation of generative AI may affect the role of the board, the particular talent and training considerations that board members should have in mind as they prioritize tech adoption, and how boards should work with management in order to meet their objectives. Thank you to the panelists and everyone who joined us last week, and thank you to everyone listening today. We are off for the next two weeks, but we will return on September 4th with brand new episodes.

Today we welcome back to the podcast Jacqueline Schafer, founder and CEO of Clearbrief. Jacqueline is an entrepreneur who previously worked as a Paul Weiss litigator, in-house counsel, and assistant attorney general. Clearbrief is a legal tech company with the goal of transforming the legal writing process. Last year, the company launched its own set of generative AI tools, including Instant Hyperlinked Timeline and Verified Facts Section, which helps litigators overcome the problem of hallucinations when using generative AI. In our conversation, Jacqueline discusses the impact of generative AI on the legal profession, Clearbrief's new AI tool, what she has learned from working in business, and the emerging technology she finds most interesting.

This week, we welcome Kimberly Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, an organization which helps lawyers seeking new careers in other fields. Neil started as a law firm associate, but soon left practice to pursue business. Prior to developing ex judicata, he worked in legal recruiting for 15 years, placing partners and associates in law firms. It was during this time that Neil discovered that many lawyers had wished to leave the profession altogether and seek opportunities in other industries. Kimberly is a legal industry veteran who has focused on the legal events space, legal tech education, and project management throughout her career. Neil and Kimberly first worked together at Executive Enterprises, a conference event and publishing company. They went on to co-found Fulcrum Information Services, a venture-backed provider of management education to law firms, law departments, and C-level executives. They grew the company for five years before selling the business to a public company. Years later, Neil and Kimberly reconnected to start ex judicata, where Kimberly serves as Chief Connectivity Officer and Neil serves as CEO. In today's discussion, they talk about how they help lawyers transition out of practice, what inspired them to start their latest venture, their respective journeys in the legal world, and their advice for making legal careers more desirable.

Today we're joined by a true pioneer in the legal profession: Sanjay Kamlani, founder and CEO of Maker5, a law firm innovation advisory and software development services business that also builds new legal industry startups through its venture studio. Sanjay started his career as an international tax lawyer at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), focusing on US-India business advisory work. Wanting to do business in India himself, he left PwC to co-found OfficeTiger, a company that pioneered the offshore professional support services industry in India. At OfficeTiger, Sanjay served as CFO, general counsel, and member of the board. He would later co-found Pangea3, one of the first major businesses in the legal process outsourcing industry. At Maker5, Sanjay helps law firms and legal departments transform their processes, workflows, and outcomes. He is also involved with Duke Capital Partners, Duke University's early-stage venture investment fund. In our discussion, Sanjay talks about why he felt confident venturing into business, the challenges he had faced in the outsourcing industry, his advice for legal tech entrepreneurs, and what it's like to manage a multicultural organization.

Keith Maziarek joins us on the podcast today. Keith is Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman. Keith entered the legal world as a Marketing and Communications Manager at the ABA, where he learned about working with lawyers, as well as the business side of the industry. He later went on to serve as a business development manager at DLA Piper. There, Keith began exploring pricing and profitability matters, eventually becoming the firm's first head of strategic pricing. He continued in this field at Perkins Coie, where he worked as Senior Director of Client Value. Today, in his wide-ranging role at Katten, he collaborates with others to design, build, and implement the firm’s robust and scalable strategic pricing, profitability, process improvement, legal project management, and client value capability. Additionally, Keith is a board member of the Legal Value Network, where he helps further the evolution of the business of law in the commercial legal services sector. He has also authored several published articles on the topics of pricing, client value, and collaboration, and he speaks regularly at industry conferences. In today's discussion, Keith talks about what led him to work in pricing, how discussions about pricing have evolved in the legal profession, the key factor about generative AI tools that people often overlook, and how he became involved with the Legal Value Network.

In honor of Independence Day, we're revisiting our discussion with Cindy Cohn, executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). For many years, Cindy has been a champion for civil liberties in the digital space. In our conversation, she spoke about the EFF's history and mission, as well as the human rights issues she focuses on today. We hope you enjoy the holiday this week. We will return next week with a new episode. As technology has progressed, we have also seen emerging concerns for freedom of speech and privacy. Our guest today has spent the past 30 years defending individual liberties in the digital space. Cindy Cohn is the executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the leading nonprofit organization ensuring that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people. She started her career as a civil litigator in private practice, where she handled various cases related to technology. Then, in 1993, the EFF offered her the opportunity to serve as outside lead attorney in the case Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice, the successful First Amendment challenge to the US export restrictions on cryptography. Today, she handles legal matters involving NSA spying, platform censorship, and surveillance technologies, among other issues. Cindy has received numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2020, she was included in The Nonprofit Times Power and Influence Top 50 list, honoring movers and shakers. In today’s discussion, Cindy talks about the fascinating origins of the EFF, how she became involved in human rights work, how her practice has evolved over the years, and her strategies for protecting people's privacy.

Today’s episode is part two of our conversation with Steve Harmon, chief operating officer and general counsel at Elevate. Last week, Steve spoke with us about why he decided to become a lawyer, his insights on the business of law, working in Cisco’s legal department, and how he co-founded CLOC. In the second half of our discussion, we talk to Steve about encouraging technology adoption, what legal professionals can learn from past technology evolutions, how Elevate balances competing factors when using tech, and his recommendations for legal professionals today.

Steve Harmon, COO and General Counsel at Elevate, shares insights on being an in-house lawyer, importance of articulating business needs, rethinking billing structures, and the evolution of legal operations as a profession. Discusses his unconventional career path and proud accomplishments at Cisco Systems.

Today we're joined by Carolyn Elefant, a change-maker in energy and environmental justice law specifically, as well as the legal profession generally. Carolyn is an attorney and an author, blogger, and legal innovation influencer at MyShingle.com. She started as a lawyer at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). After working in a law firm for a few years, she took the leap into starting her own practice. In her energy and environmental justice work, Carolyn helps innovative alternative energy companies navigate the FERC, state commissions, and energy markets. She also defends landowners and communities from pipeline infrastructure by helping them challenge adverse rulings and change laws. Nearly two decades ago, Carolyn co-founded the Ocean Renewable Energy Coalition, which has since merged with the National Hydropower Association. This organization has helped draft and implement the laws that govern offshore wind and wave energy today, and has lobbied for hundreds of millions of dollars in research and development for the industry. In addition, Carolyn helps other lawyers venture into solo practice—sharing her thoughts and experiences through her award-winning blog, MyShingle.com, and her book, Solo by Choice. In our conversation, Carolyn discusses the surprising reason she chose to attend law school, starting a solo practice, how she approaches legal technology, and her work in energy and environmental justice law.