The justice gap is one of the most serious issues facing our country. Of low-income Americans experiencing civil legal problems, the vast majority receive inadequate or no legal help at all. This gap is the result of overlapping issues facing the legal industry: the cost of law school, the complexity of our justice system, and the slow adoption of technology by lawyers and the courts, among others. Our guest today is David Stern, a legal industry pioneer who has spent the majority of his career addressing the justice gap. He is executive director of Equal Justice Works, an organization committed to mobilizing passionate public service leaders. Under David’s leadership, Equal Justice Works has grown to become the nation’s largest facilitator of opportunities in public interest law. The organization has facilitated more than 2,500 public interest fellowships, with 85% of fellows remaining in public service. Listen in to today’s conversation to hear: - How educational debt has increased the justice gap—and what Equal Justice Works has done to make it easier for students with debt to choose public service jobs. - How a child of a professional muckraker went from law school to clerkship, to a brief stint in practice; and how a chance encounter on the other side of the planet led him to Equal Justice Works. - Why today’s law students have such an appetite for public service; and inspiring success stories of Equal Justice Works fellows.

Today’s guest is librarian, lawyer, knowledge management, computer programmer, blogger, and podcaster Renaissance man Greg Lambert. Like so many of our multihyphenate guests, he is a very busy man. Many of you will know Greg from the long-running 3 Geeks and a Law Blog, which was founded in 2008 and is one of the first blogs to focus on what we now think of as “the business of law.” Greg also co-hosts The Geek In Review podcast, which dives into the world of legal information professionals. If that wasn’t enough, Greg also has a day job as chief knowledge services officer at Jackson Walker. He thinks of himself as a "connector" who puts the spotlight on the innovative folks in our industry and connects them with others who have similar goals. Today, we put the spotlight on Greg, to learn more about his unique journey. Listen in as we talk shop about podcasting, geek out over guests, and learn a little about how Greg is innovating the role of law librarian.

Today’s guest is Laurie Robinson Haden, an award-winning lawyer and agent of change who personifies the pioneering spirit that defines this podcast. During a nearly 20-year stint in various leadership roles in CBS’s law department, she founded Corporate Counsel Women of Color (CCWC), the largest and most influential professional organization of its kind. What started as an informal group of friends exchanging contact information in 2004 has now become a powerhouse network of nearly 5,000 women of color devoted to empowering one another and lifting one another up. Seyfarth is proud to have played a role in the early days by helping Laurie set the organization up as a 501(c)(3), and the firm is proud to call her an alum, as well. Listen in to today’s conversation to get a feel for Laurie’s infectious energy as we discuss: - The need for an organization like CCWC—especially for first-generation women lawyers of color. - Her advice for getting buy-in and support from employers for diversity initiatives, and why people shouldn’t be afraid to walk away when they don’t get it. - What’s next for CCWC as it turns focus from the chief legal officers space to the boardroom. Note: Pioneers and Pathfinders will be taking the week of Thanksgiving off. We hope you enjoy the holiday with your friends and family. We will be back on December 1.

We've had a number of guests from legal education who are helping law students find and forge alternative career paths that prioritize business skills alongside legal. Today's guest, Amani Smathers, is among the first generation of young lawyers to embark on one of these new—some might say non-traditional—career paths being forged. In fact, when Amani was still a law student, she introduced the industry to the concept of the T-shaped lawyer, which combines breadth in business skills with depth in legal knowledge. This idea has stuck and changed the discourse around lawyer professional skills development. Today, Amani is a senior practice innovations specialist on the Chapman Cutler Practice Innovations team focusing on process improvement, workflow management, and turning data into actionable insights. If that's not enough on her plate, Amani is also paying it forward as an adjunct professor at the Center for Law, Technology & Innovation at Michigan State University College of Law. She’s doing incredible, award-winning work, and Seyfarth is proud to call her an alum. Listen in as we talk about: - How free pizza changed the trajectory of her career. - How the concept of the T-shaped lawyer has evolved since 2014. - Why technology and process design are so important for access to justice.

Thanks to Michael Lewis, we all know the term “Moneyball.” Very few people actually apply those concepts though. Today’s guest, Caren Ulrich Stacy, has used the Moneyball concept to change the demographics of law firms and the face of law firm leadership. Informed by her education as a journalist and her work with top law firms on their talent strategies, Caren co-founded Lawyer Metrics, a startup company that pioneered a data-driven approach to lawyer recruitment and development. From there, Caren created Diversity Lab to focus exclusively on closing the gender gap and increasing diversity and inclusion in the legal field. The success of Diversity Lab’s marquee program—Mansfield Certification—is a testament to how an ongoing commitment to change and measurement of outcomes can solve the toughest problems facing our profession. Listen in to today’s conversation to learn: - How Caren’s journey in law started at birth—literally. - The three things that contribute to law firm associate satisfaction, and why money isn’t one of them. - The big, audacious goal Caren has set for OnRamp Fellowship to more than double the number of women brought back to full-time law firm work.

David Cambria is known as the “godfather of legal operations,” a moniker he earned in-house at giants Aon and ADM, and the name has followed him ever since. He is unique in that he has also held roles at the world’s largest law firm as chief services officer, and is currently at one of the Big Four accounting firms as managing director of legal operations, overseeing “modern legal.” David is someone who has been a leader on every side of the value equation. In today’s conversation, we learn how his experiences have coalesced into his current view on the profession and the legal marketplace. Listen in to discover: - Specific challenges David encountered along the way, and how he gained acceptance for the concept of legal operations within massive organizations. - How in-house legal leaders should sort the options in an increasingly diverse marketplace. - What is meant by “modern legal,” and how he hopes to achieve it.

Today our guest is self-described “sociologist of lawyers,” Marcie Borgal Shunk. She has a fascinating multidisciplinary background that she brings to her work with the Tilt Institute, which offers analytics, leadership training and coaching, cultural assessments, and more to help law firms transform their businesses. Initially intrigued by the question of why some firms perform better than others, Marcie has spun her skills in analytics, statistics, and data visualization into a fascinating body of work. She’s a great example of how people from disciplines beyond law are changing the legal ecosphere. Listen in to hear: - How Marcie uses data to get firms to think differently about their market opportunities, their strategies, their talent pool, and more. - The process she employs to help people understand how to connect the dots between the data and the application of the data. - The three types of data that are crucial to understanding law firm performance, and why they are so difficult to leverage.

Today's guest, David Wilkins, is one of the foremost thinkers on the legal profession today. Though he’s had many significant roles and accomplishments in the legal field, his resume doesn't capture his inspirational story or the enormity of his contributions to the profession. Nor does it captures his intellect, quick wit, warm personality, or joyful presence. He’s without a doubt the most recognizable voice in the legal industry today. Listen in to our conversation to hear about: - David’s journey from the South Side of Chicago as the son and grandson of Black lawyers, to his clerkship with Thurgood Marshall, and eventual decision to enter teaching at Harvard. - How he thinks lawyers can help solve the huge problems facing humanity, against a backdrop of looming generational change, digitization, and technology. - Why he thinks the legal profession needs a more sophisticated focus on the care and development of our people in the same way as many other industries are doing.

As buyers of legal services, in-house counsel are in a powerful position when it comes to legal industry innovation. Today’s guest, Kristen Cook, has used that position to do remarkable things as vice president and deputy general counsel at 7-Eleven. Kristen has been at the forefront of transforming how legal services are procured, how services are delivered back to the organization, and using Lean to improve legal operations. Her work has been recognized across the industry, including two ACC Value Champion awards which recognize how value is enhanced through the use of people, processes, technology, and data innovations. Listen in to hear: - How Lean Six Sigma shaped Kristen's career path and inspired her approach to legal operations. - The role of data in creating value for her department and for 7-Eleven. - How Kristen plans on integrating lessons of COVID-19 to create the cutting-edge legal department of the future.

Today’s guest is a longtime friend of Seyfarth, Susan Lambreth. Susan is a founding principal at LawVision and is nationally recognized as one of the top leadership, practice group, and project management consultants for law firms. She is also the chair and founder of the LPM Institute, a leading resource for educating law firms and law departments on implementing project management in their organizations. Susan has been extremely influential in shaping the business of Big Law for many years now. She is one of the true trailblazers of legal project management, and many of today’s law firm project management offices can trace their origins back to her pioneering work. In fact, Seyfarth teamed up with Susan in the early 2000s, as we were strengthening our practice group structure. Listen in to today’s conversation to learn more about: - Susan’s take on how project management and process improvement are related, but different skill sets, and how they interact with one another in today's environment. - What types of people are taking on the LPM role and the experience they bring to the table. - And what the current war for allied professional talent says about the industry.