Pioneers and Pathfinders

Mishcon de Reya is one of the most unique and fascinating law firms in the world. Today’s guest, Elliot Moss, is the mind behind Mishcon’s brand. Elliot is chief brand officer and a partner at Mishcon, a 600 fee-earner firm headquartered in London. This unique combination of roles is made possible by the Legal Services Act 2007 in the UK. Elliot has overall responsibility for brand, marketing, communications, client development, new business, and social impact for the firm. He comes from the world of advertising, having worked for Leo Burnett and Leagas Delaney. It was here that he first met Mishcon’s managing partner—now executive chairperson—Kevin Gold. After a two-year contract with the firm, Elliot stayed on, attracted by what he calls the great “volume of intellectual capital” in the law. Since then, he has become the first nonlawyer to be named as one of the Financial Times' 10 Most Innovative Individuals. He also happens to have a long-running podcast called Jazz Shapers, where he interviews founders and entrepreneurs on their own professional journeys. It was a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation. We discussed the cultural attributes that make Mishcon such an innovative and unique firm. We also veered into a number of other intriguing topics. For example, the firm recently sponsored a film from The Economist on the culture wars, which is not typical for a law firm, and we talked about how their atypical branding moves are “utterly rational.” We also talked about why he made the leap from consumer-oriented branding to the law, how he made the case for Mishcon to make him a partner, and what's next for their IPO—and how he sold it to his partners.

It's always a delight to talk to people who are passionate about what they do. Dr. Silvia Hodges Silverstein is such a person. She researches, teaches, and speaks on purchasing decisions and change in the legal industry. Silvia is the CEO of Buying Legal Council, which supports professionals tasked with sourcing legal services and legal tech through education, research, and advocacy. Their mission is to advance the field of buying legal services and legal tech by sharing intelligence and best practices on how to buy and manage supplier relationships. Silvia is the editor of The Definitive Guide to Buying Legal Services and has authored two Harvard Business School case studies on legal procurement and the legal industry. She has also taught management at Columbia Law School and Fordham University School of Law. Our conversation covered a number of interesting topics. We talked about how Silvia's journey in marketing for an Italian law firm led to her interest and expertise in procurement, the evolution of procurement's role in buying legal services and the ongoing struggle between lawyers and procurement professionals, and her view on which pricing model is least used by in-house counsel and the reason why.

Jennifer Leonard is the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School's chief innovation officer and the executive director of the Future of the Profession Initiative. As chief innovation officer, Jennifer advances projects that evolve our understanding of the skills and knowledge lawyers need to thrive in a rapidly changing professional landscape. She and her colleagues also develop multidisciplinary projects that engage law students with creative thinkers from the Wharton School, Penn Engineering, the School of Nursing, and more to design solutions and make civil legal systems more accessible. In today's episode, Jennifer tells us about her groundbreaking role as the first and only chief innovation officer at a law school, how she is using design thinking to collaborate across Penn and with peers at other law schools, and her advice for creative law students who want to enter the world of Big Law—as well as her advice for those firms.

Zach Posner is a three-time entrepreneur turned investor. He is working to find ways that artificial intelligence can be used to positively affect the world. To that end, Zach is the co-founder and managing partner at The LegalTech Fund, which is the first venture capital fund to focus exclusively on legal tech. Founded in 2020 post-pandemic, the Fund recently closed to $28.5 million, exceeding its goal of $25 million. The vision of The LegalTech Fund is to bring together a community of the world's most forward-thinking experts and advisors to accelerate innovation in the legal world. In today's conversation, we talked about how this finance major came to invest in legal tech, the criteria Zach looks for when he makes investments, and his plans for the inaugural The LegalTech Fund Summit coming in December.

The past few years have seen a rise in heads of innovation at Big Law firms. One of the leading voices in this space is David Wang, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati’s chief innovation officer. David is responsible for overseeing the firm's innovation strategy, the development and implementation of legal technology programs, and supporting and advising both internal and client teams on the legal and operational implications of emerging technologies and business models. He previously practiced corporate and securities law for more than 10 years, working with private and public companies on general corporate and transactional matters. Prior to becoming a lawyer, David was an entrepreneur himself. Under David’s leadership, Wilson has received multiple accolades for their innovative use of technology. In today's conversation, we discuss how David transitioned from the practice of law to leading a cutting-edge innovation and technology team at a Big Law firm, how he manages his portfolio of responsibilities, his decision-making process for taking on new projects, and what excites him most in the legal tech market.

JusticeText, an MIT- and Google-backed startup, is building technology to improve criminal justice outcomes for low-income Americans. Today's guest is Devshi Mehrotra, JusticeText CEO and co-founder. She started this work when she was a computer science undergraduate at the University of Chicago, while the city was reeling from the death of Laquan McDonald. Devshi and co-founder Leslie Jones-Dove began their work helping public defenders better utilize large volumes of admissible video and audio data. Today, JusticeText is an audiovisual evidence management platform that expedites review of collective video and audio data with machine learning to support the work of public defenders. Devshi talks to us about how falling in love with the problem helped her go against her natural risk aversion, how participating in startup programs and accelerators contributed to the success of JusticeText, and how she is building a strong company culture.

Tony Thai is an attorney, entrepreneur, and software engineer. He founded and serves as CEO and chief engineer of HyperDraft, a company which builds bespoke document automation software for law firms and legal departments. Prior to his legal career, Tony worked as an enterprise software engineer. An M&A venture capital attorney by training, his goal was always to build tech to disrupt the profession. To learn how lawyers practice and how the law is delivered, Tony practiced at some of the world's most prestigious law firms, as well as in-house at multiple technology companies. He was recently recognized as a Fastcase 50 honoree, and serves as an adjunct professor at USC Gould School of Law. In today's conversation, we talk about why Tony embraces all the boring stuff nobody else wants to do; how a desire to understand how humans think led to his work in machine learning, software, and algorithms; and how HyperDraft is a culmination of every experience he has had.

We've had a number of guests on the show focused on the A2J gap, as well as issues of social justice, but today's guest, Jazz Hampton, combines both. Jazz is CEO and general counsel at TurnSignl, a Minnesota-based tech company that he co-founded in the wake of the deaths of Philando Castile and George Floyd. TurnSignl is a mobile app where the user, if stopped for a traffic violation or involved in an accident, can push a button and be connected automatically to an attorney to receive real-time, on-demand legal guidance. The goal of the app is to keep drivers safe and empowered while speaking with law enforcement. Before joining TurnSignl, Jazz was the director of diversity and inclusion and a practicing attorney at a national law firm. Among other roles, Jazz has won a number of accolades, most recently being named to Fastcase 50. Join us for a fascinating conversation about TurnSignl’s growth plans, how this first-generation college student ended up in law school, and how a mentor made all the difference when Jazz was starting out.

We're joined today by Olga V. Mack. Olga is vice president and CEO of Parley Pro at LexisNexis. Parley Pro is a contract life cycle management platform that is pioneering online negotiation technology. Olga has dedicated her career to improving and shaping the future of law. She believes that by embracing technology, the legal profession will become stronger, more resilient, and more inclusive. Olga's TED talks are very popular, and she is an outspoken advocate for professional women. She founded the Women Serve on Boards movement that advocates for women to serve on corporate boards. In her spare time, she helps startups thrive and grow, serving as an advisory board member for a number of companies. Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about why Olga thinks it's so important that the body of law be human centered and how to make it so, the role of technology in law as a service, and why a more transparent world demands more accessible contracts.

Casey Flaherty is well known in the world of legal innovation. His career journey has taken him to nearly every corner of the legal system. Casey has been a Big Law litigator, in-house counsel at a Global 500 company, a legal operations consultant, and architect of the legal project management team with the world's largest law firm. Today he is co-founder and chief strategy officer at LexFusion, a collaborative circle of handpicked, truly excellent legal innovation companies. In Casey's role, he focuses on the consultative aspects of the company's go-to-market operation, with an emphasis on market listening, thought leadership, and community-building. Listen to our discussion to learn why market listening is so critical to LexFusion's value proposition, how the challenges around the acquisition of technology can cause people and companies to resign themselves to the status quo, and more about Casey's current project—a maturity model of transactions that firms can use as self-assessment.