
Managing Managers
Stepping up from an IC to managing other ICs is no easy feat. But brace yourself because the real surprise comes when you level up again—to managing managers!
Curious to know how top tech leaders made this leap? Join our host, the experienced Pat Kua, as he delves into the strategies and stories of leaders in tech who’ve mastered the art of managing managers. 🎙️💡
Latest episodes

5 snips
May 11, 2024 • 43min
Episode 21: Splitting time and tech strategy with Anna Shipman
I had the pleasure of chatting to experienced tech leader and CTO, Anna Shipman about the challenges of IC and management responsibilities combined at higher levels, how to think about splitting time as a director, and some really great points on strategy, tactics and more in this episode.
Guest Biography:
Anna Shipman is Chief Technology Officer at Kooth, pioneering great digital mental healthcare for everyone.
With over two decades of software engineering experience, Anna has led teams both large and small. Before joining Kooth, she served as the Technical Director for Customer Products at the Financial Times, overseeing the award-winning FT.com website and FT iPhone and Android apps. She also played a crucial role in launching the GOV.UK website during her time at the Government Digital Service.
She speaks at conferences, blogs on her personal website, has a mailing list and is always up for a game of pool.
Socials
Website: https://www.annashipman.co.uk/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annashipman/
Transcript and show notes: https://managingmanagers.tech/episodes/episode-021-anna-shipman

Apr 27, 2024 • 44min
Episode 20: Navigating organisational change and traumatic times with Nivia Henry
Nivia has a fascinating and long history in technology and we talked about how directors can help people through organisational change, the trauma of dealing with forced change from COVID and how a lot of being an effective manager of managers is building and sharing context and influence.
Guest biography:
Nivia is a technologist with over 20 years of engineering and leadership experience. Her career path has included nearly every role in tech; but her true passion is inspiring people to do their best work. These days Nivia applies her talents as Director of Engineering for Spotify's new music team, tasked with bringing enriching artist expression tools and experiences to Spotify.
Nivia gives back to the tech community by speaking at, chairing and attending tech conferences. Her hobbies include: mentoring Black engineering leaders; reading; and relaxing on her farm with her hubby Andre and their feline overlord Zuko.
Social:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nivia/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lanooba
Transcript and show notes available here: https://managingmanagers.tech/episodes/episode-020-nivia-henry/

Apr 13, 2024 • 43min
Episode 19: Finding a manager of managers role with Dr Claire Knight
I really enjoyed a lot of the insights Claire shared with me in this episode - everything from getting comfortable with how other managers approach problems differently from you, the benefits of an external coach and having a physical outlet to balance out the intellectual stress and finally some insight into some of the ways that Claire runs her organisation.
Guest Biography
Dr Claire Knight is a Senior Director of Engineering; Ecosystem & Emerging Products at Netlify. She served plenty of time in the coal code mine before making the move into wrangling folks rather than just bits. With many years of engineering leadership at companies such as GitHub and Six to Start, Claire now leads many engineering teams at Netlify, defines strategy and expansion, with particular focus on the platform and SDK. Claire lives in Barkshire, UK, with her husband and three cats who from time to time also like to be involved in video calls. When not working, she likes to lift heavy things, only to put them down again and is a 2023 AWPC World Champion Powerlifter.
Social Links:
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ckclaireknight/
Twitter -https://twitter.com/krider2010
Threads - https://www.threads.net/@krider2010
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/krider2010
Mastodon - https://hachyderm.io/@krider2010
Transcript and show notes available here: https://managingmanagers.tech/episodes/episode-019-claire-knight/

15 snips
Mar 30, 2024 • 46min
Episode 18: Onboarding and prioritising time in a 2000-person eng org with Thiago Ghisi
Thiago Ghisi shares insights on onboarding, prioritizing time in a large engineering organization. He discusses challenges of transitioning to an engineering management role, managing engineering teams effectively, and the importance of establishing a positive onboarding experience. The conversation also touches on strategies for managing managers, central tech contacts, and influential leadership books.

Mar 16, 2024 • 48min
Episode 17: A unique leadership journey and avoiding swirl with Sally Lait
Sally Lait, Engineering Director for Trust & Safety at Bumble Inc., shares her non-traditional tech journey and managing managers. She discusses leading beyond her expertise, avoiding 'swirl' as a manager, and advocating for empathy and inclusivity in teams.

19 snips
Mar 2, 2024 • 44min
Episode 16: Management as a true calling and the three pillars of being a director with Dan Na
Dan Na, Engineering Director at Squarespace, discusses his journey into management, embracing the director role, and managing growth in a tech company. He highlights the challenges of international expansion, the importance of self-improvement in leadership, and the transition to management roles. The podcast also covers parental leave management, online presence in management, and the pillars of being a director.

Feb 17, 2024 • 47min
Episode 15: Greater scope, systems and what is a VP of Engineering and Operations with Maria Gutierrez
I’ve been really lucky to meet Maria several times at conferences in real-life and in this episode, we were able to shine a light into parts of her 20 year journey in tech. I love how she thinks about management, structure and she has so many great insights on what it means to be a manager of managers. Her past few roles have also been focused on Product and Engineering Operations, so listen in if you’d like to learn more about that too.
Guest Biography:
Maria Gutierrez is an Engineering executive and advisor with over 20 years of experience working at companies ranging from early-stage to large public tech companies. A big focus of her work is building healthier and more impactful Product and Engineering organisations at scale.
Social links:
Twitter - https://twitter.com/mariagutierrez
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariagutierrez/
Transcript and show notes available here: https://managingmanagers.tech/episodes/episode-015-maria-gutierrez/

Feb 3, 2024 • 43min
Episode 14: Naturally growing into a managing managers role with Alexandra Sunderland
Alexandra Sunderland, an engineering leader with over a decade of experience, shares tips on being a manager of managers in a remote environment. She discusses the differences in responsibilities, the challenges of making critical decisions without direct control, and the importance of transparent and standardized processes. The episode also covers the significance of communication, the value of retrospectives, and the process of growing engineers into managerial roles.

Jan 20, 2024 • 51min
Episode 13: Digging your well, the Staff Engineering Manager and managing burnout with Anjuan Simmons
Anjuan Simmons, a software development team leader, shares insights on digging your well, the role of a staff engineering manager, and managing burnout. He discusses surprising challenges in managing managers, the importance of trust and curiosity, and strategies for assessing managers' performance. Additionally, he highlights the distinction between performance and management style, the role of problem solving, and the significance of clear focus time in preventing burnout. Finally, he provides advice for first-time managing managers, emphasizing the need to understand the leadership team.

Jan 7, 2024 • 48min
Episode 12: Learning to be a manager of manager on the job with Vitor Reis
When managers leave and you inherit their team, you can suddenly find yourself managing multiple teams and shortly after, a manager of manager. Find out how Vitor Reis navigated this quick transition and learned to be an effective manager of managers on the job.
Guest biography:
Vitor Reis is a hands-on engineering lead with 14 years of experience in multiple industries. For the past 7 years he has been developing a platform for logistics at Delivery Hero, creating teams that work well together and deliver impactful things on time, developing products & tech running on over thousands of hosts in 5 data centers serving 50+ countries.
Transcript and show notes available here: https://managingmanagers.tech/episodes/episode-012-vitor-reis
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