

Rainer on Leadership
Thom Rainer
Your online home for leadership lessons for both the church and the workplace.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 25, 2025 • 29min
What Really Scares People Away from Church
Doctrine, expectations, and high standards do not scare people away from church. Confusion is the main enemy. According to Church Answers Research, over 60% of unchurched people agree or strongly agree that churches are confusing for outsiders—and shockingly, 60% of churchgoers say the same.
Higher confusion and lower trust levels mean the unchurched have doubts about raising their families and discovering their talents in the context of the church.
While attendees overwhelmingly believe the church is a good place to raise families (85%) and discover their talents (75%), the unchurched do not share the same perception. Only 44% of the unchurched agree or strongly agree the church is a good place to raise families.
Additionally, only 29% of the unchurched agree or strongly agree that the church is a good place to discover and grow their talents.
Both groups recognize that what happens inside the church often lacks clarity and accessibility. In this episode, Josh and Sam talk about how confusion creates distance—and how simple clarity can bring people closer to faith and community.
Clarity is kindness—explain everything, assume nothing.
Offer a regular membership class that covers belief, belonging, and behavior.
Use simple language in your worship services, signage, and bulletins to make things understandable.
Include a clear doctrinal overview—don’t hide what you believe or expect.
Set realistic expectations for involvement early to avoid consumerism.
Regularly evaluate your communication with unchurched people in mind—not just insiders.
Resources:
Smart Church Solutions
The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church
Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Platinum Membership
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Looking for a better way to manage your church or school facilities?
eSPACE is the leading facility management software built specifically for churches.
It helps you schedule events, manage work orders, and track assets – all in one place.
You can even automate things like HVAC and door access to save time and money.
Trusted by over 1,250 organizations – including some of the largest churches in the country.
If you’re tired of spreadsheets, sticky notes, or last-minute maintenance emergencies, it’s time to check out eSPACE.
Learn more and book a personalized demo at smartchurchsolutions.com/rainer/.
Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.
But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.
A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel.
Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.
Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.
Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel.
Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.
He knew exactly where to turn.
Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.
Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.
The post What Really Scares People Away from Church appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 22, 2025 • 27min
The Big Front Door for Guests Just About Every Church Misses
Many unchurched individuals believe churches are great for making friends but feel intimidated attending alone. A personal escort and genuine invitation can ease that anxiety. The focus should shift from institutional to relational, fostering connections that lead to faith. Hospitality teams need to prioritize emotional comfort, recognizing guests may be vulnerable. Ultimately, building friendships is essential before discussing conversion. This approach can significantly open doors for meaningful gospel conversations.

Sep 18, 2025 • 32min
Building a Worship Ministry that Excels On and Off the Stage
Sam talks with worship leaders Tara Banks and Nate Davis about building thriving, long-lasting worship ministries. Together, they unpack how to develop leaders who excel both on stage and in organization, create healthy pipelines for team recruitment and onboarding, and refine systems that support excellence in worship. With decades of ministry insight, Tara and Nate share practical steps for sustaining your own leadership while fostering teams that are united, prepared, and spiritually vibrant.
Tara is a worship pastor and has served at Seacoast Church for 32 years. She is married with two boys, author of two books, and loves to see worship leaders step into their full potential.
Nate has served the local church for 24 years as a worship pastor, songwriter, creative, and a builder of spaces for soul care. He’s married with four children and is passionate about helping leaders live well so they can lead well and leave a legacy that lasts.
Resources:
The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church
Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Smart Church Solutions
The Worship Dept.
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.
But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.
A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel.
Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.
Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.
Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel.
Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.
He knew exactly where to turn.
Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.
Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.
Looking for a better way to manage your church or school facilities?
eSPACE is the leading facility management software built specifically for churches.
It helps you schedule events, manage work orders, and track assets – all in one place.
You can even automate things like HVAC and door access to save time and money.
Trusted by over 1,250 organizations – including some of the largest churches in the country.
If you’re tired of spreadsheets, sticky notes, or last-minute maintenance emergencies, it’s time to check out eSPACE.
Learn more and book a personalized demo at smartchurchsolutions.com/rainer/.
The post Building a Worship Ministry that Excels On and Off the Stage appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 15, 2025 • 27min
The Top 6 Gripes About Church Curriculum (and What to Do About Them)
If you’ve ever heard someone say, “I just don’t get anything out of that study,” you’re not alone. In today’s episode, Sam interviews Michael Kelley, Executive Director of the Rooted Network, and they dive into the top six frustrations people have with church curriculum.
It’s too shallow.
It’s not relatable.
It’s poorly written.
It’s not our church doctrine.
It’s too long.
It’s boring.
These gripes aren’t just personal preferences; they signal that our discipleship strategy might need a tune-up. Good curriculum doesn’t just inform—it transforms. We talk about how to shift from frustration to fruitfulness.
Vet curriculum for theological depth and clarity—don’t settle for fluff just because it’s popular.
Choose studies that directly address real-life challenges your people are facing right now.
Test studies with small pilot groups to catch weak spots in content or delivery before full rollout.
Resources:
Rooted
Upward Sports
Upward Sports: Pickleball
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is…
A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose
A sustainable way to launch groups
An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship
An opportunity to change the culture of your church
Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample.
The Power of Partnership. Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, empowering local churches to use sports as a dynamic connection tool to engage their communities.
Start Preparing Now for 2026! Looking ahead to what’s next in your ministry? Create an outreach strategy that includes a warm invite for the whole family – use sports as that invite. Whether it’s basketball, soccer, flag football, cheerleading, volleyball, baseball, pickleball, or running for adults, Upward Sports is ready to support your church in reaching families right in the heart of your community. All you need is access to a gym or field and one passionate leader — Upward will support you with the rest.
A Variety of Sports for Every Church. From basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, and baseball to running for adults — and now pickleball — Upward Sports offers flexible league options to fit your church’s unique needs.
Exciting News: Did you hear? Pickleball is the newest offering – Claim your TWO free net sets, while supplies last! Launched in April, pickleball is perfect for middle and high schoolers — easy to learn, quick to set up, and highly engaging. Whether you prefer a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to guide you. Plus, to help you get started, Upward is offering two free Pickleball Net Sets when you create your league. But act fast — only 200 sets are available! Schedule your call today and build a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community. Learn more at www.Upward.org/Pickleball where you can access an equipment list, court dimensions, and more.
Be the Neighborhood Church. Want to create a welcoming space for families? Upward Sports provides a first-class, well-organized, and fun league experience. As a self-sustaining ministry, any church — big or small — can get started. Customize your outreach ministry today.
Learn more at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers.
The post The Top 6 Gripes About Church Curriculum (and What to Do About Them) appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 11, 2025 • 29min
The Trust Gap: Why Outsiders Won’t Step Inside Your Church
Here’s a shocker: The unchurched think the church is more relevant than many regular attenders do. But they don’t trust it. While 81% of churchgoers trust their church, only 30% of the unchurched say the same. The dichotomy is fascinating:
Churched people: I trust the church, but believe it’s irrelevant today.
Unchurched people: The church is still relevant, but not trustworthy.
In this episode, Josh and Sam explore how insularity and public scandals have eroded trust—and what your church can do to rebuild it without compromising the gospel.
Relevance isn’t your problem—trust is.
Authentic relationships rebuild trust faster than polished presentations.
Be present in your community beyond Sunday mornings.
Your church’s public witness matters more than ever in a skeptical culture.
Resources:
Smart Church Solutions
The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church
Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Platinum Membership
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Looking for a better way to manage your church or school facilities?
eSPACE is the leading facility management software built specifically for churches.
It helps you schedule events, manage work orders, and track assets – all in one place.
You can even automate things like HVAC and door access to save time and money.
Trusted by over 1,250 organizations – including some of the largest churches in the country.
If you’re tired of spreadsheets, sticky notes, or last-minute maintenance emergencies, it’s time to check out eSPACE.
Learn more and book a personalized demo at smartchurchsolutions.com/rainer/.
Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.
But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.
A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel.
Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.
Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.
Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel.
Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.
He knew exactly where to turn.
Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.
Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.
The post The Trust Gap: Why Outsiders Won’t Step Inside Your Church appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 8, 2025 • 23min
Five Reasons Churches Should Still Try to Reach Boomers
In this episode, Thom and Sam dive into five compelling reasons churches should still prioritize reaching Baby Boomers. Despite cultural shifts, Boomers remain a vital part of many communities—and churches. They’re often more open to spiritual conversations, have time and resources to invest in ministry, and bring deep life experience that can benefit younger generations. Boomers still matter, and your church can more effectively reach and disciple them.
Boomer Nones are declining (from 28% to 24% in one year).
Boomers will likely be a significant portion of the church’s volunteer base.
Boomers will likely be higher givers.
Boomers’ life expectancy is close to 90 years old.
Boomers can lead the way in legacy giving.
Source: Ryan Burge, “Religion in 2024: The Plateau Is Real.” Graphs about Religion. Burge uses the data from The Cooperative Election Study, 2008 to 2024.
Resources:
Upward Running
Rooted
Church Growth Services: Get your free campaign capacity analysis!
“Religion in 2024: The Plateau Is Real” by Ryan Burge
Ryan Burge
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Upward Running for Adults: Your Church’s Next Step in Outreach
Offer a 5K Challenge: Inspire your congregation and engage your community with a meaningful running ministry. Upward provides:
Tailored training plans to help your runner or walkers move from the couch to completing a 5k.
Access to the new RunClub app for tracking progress and building community.
A fully customizable program that fits your church’s timeline — all led by your run coach who will be fully equipped with the Upward Running materials to lead.
Simple to Start: With just one passionate leader and no facility needed, your church parking lot can become the starting line for life transformation.
Build Stronger Connections: Use running to foster relationships, promote healthy habits, and grow spiritually while expanding your church’s impact.
Upward is Here for You: Ready to bring Upward Running to your church? Visit Upward.org/Runcoach to get started today!
The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is…
A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose
A sustainable way to launch groups
An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship
An opportunity to change the culture of your church
Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample.
The post Five Reasons Churches Should Still Try to Reach Boomers appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 4, 2025 • 31min
Realistic One-to-Two-Year Objectives for Small-Church Revitalization
In this episode, we explore realistic 1–2 year objectives for small-church revitalization—practical steps that can create lasting momentum without overwhelming your congregation. We unpack three key priorities:
Presence, by launching a quarterly outreach emphasis to build visibility in your community.
Power, by uniting your church through an intentional prayer focus woven into worship.
Precision, by concentrating efforts on one or two strategic community hubs where families already gather, such as local schools.
Rev. Chad Brooks rejoins the show with Josh and Sam to discuss how these focused, attainable goals can help small churches make meaningful progress while laying a foundation for long-term health and growth.
Resources:
The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church
Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Smart Church Solutions
“Is My Church Healthy?: Understanding the Vitality Matrix for Congregational Change” by Chad Brooks (affiliate link)
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.
But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.
A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel.
Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.
Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.
Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel.
Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.
He knew exactly where to turn.
Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.
Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.
Looking for a better way to manage your church or school facilities?
eSPACE is the leading facility management software built specifically for churches.
It helps you schedule events, manage work orders, and track assets – all in one place.
You can even automate things like HVAC and door access to save time and money.
Trusted by over 1,250 organizations – including some of the largest churches in the country.
If you’re tired of spreadsheets, sticky notes, or last-minute maintenance emergencies, it’s time to check out eSPACE.
Learn more and book a personalized demo at smartchurchsolutions.com/rainer/.
The post Realistic One-to-Two-Year Objectives for Small-Church Revitalization appeared first on Church Answers.

Sep 1, 2025 • 22min
Millennials Move LESS than Gen X and Boomers (New Implications for Your Church)
In this episode, we re-examine a major demographic shift reshaping communities and churches: the decline in mobility across the United States. Americans are moving far less than they did in previous generations, especially millennials. While older generations often relocated for work opportunities or family, today’s younger adults are more likely to stay put. Rising housing costs, tighter job markets, student loan burdens, and a growing preference for stability have all contributed to this trend. For church leaders, this change presents both challenges and opportunities.
On one hand, fewer new people moving into a community may mean slower demographic growth, especially in areas outside the Sun Belt.
But on the other hand, people who stay are often more open to long-term relationships, deeper discipleship, and lasting involvement in the life of the church.
The big reason for families: Two incomes are necessary. Moving means finding two new jobs.
Other root causes: housing, debt, family ties.
Implications for church outreach and growth.
Stability may lead to deeper community connections.
Focus shifts: from attractional to relational ministry.
Churches should invest in long-termer discipleship strategies.
Resources:
Rooted
Upward Sports
Upward Sports: Pickleball
Brown Church Development Group
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is…
A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose
A sustainable way to launch groups
An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship
An opportunity to change the culture of your church
Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample.
The Power of Partnership. Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, empowering local churches to use sports as a dynamic connection tool to engage their communities.
Start Preparing Now for 2026! Looking ahead to what’s next in your ministry? Create an outreach strategy that includes a warm invite for the whole family – use sports as that invite. Whether it’s basketball, soccer, flag football, cheerleading, volleyball, baseball, pickleball, or running for adults, Upward Sports is ready to support your church in reaching families right in the heart of your community. All you need is access to a gym or field and one passionate leader — Upward will support you with the rest.
A Variety of Sports for Every Church. From basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, and baseball to running for adults — and now pickleball — Upward Sports offers flexible league options to fit your church’s unique needs.
Exciting News: Did you hear? Pickleball is the newest offering – Claim your TWO free net sets, while supplies last! Launched in April, pickleball is perfect for middle and high schoolers — easy to learn, quick to set up, and highly engaging. Whether you prefer a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to guide you. Plus, to help you get started, Upward is offering two free Pickleball Net Sets when you create your league. But act fast — only 200 sets are available! Schedule your call today and build a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community. Learn more at www.Upward.org/Pickleball where you can access an equipment list, court dimensions, and more.
Be the Neighborhood Church. Want to create a welcoming space for families? Upward Sports provides a first-class, well-organized, and fun league experience. As a self-sustaining ministry, any church — big or small — can get started. Customize your outreach ministry today.
Learn more at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers.
The post Millennials Move LESS than Gen X and Boomers (New Implications for Your Church) appeared first on Church Answers.

5 snips
Aug 28, 2025 • 24min
Which “Higher Standard” Measures Actually Make Sense for Pastors
Pastors are often held to a “higher standard,” but not every expectation placed on them is biblical or even wise. In this episode, Josh and Sam explore which higher standards actually make sense for pastors and why. They cut through unrealistic pressures and focus on the standards that truly align with Scripture and healthy leadership.
Decorum in public life, especially with social media
Greater knowledge of Scripture and theology
Emotional self-control and humility
Financial stewardship and transparency
Commitment to family and personal health
Resources:
Smart Church Solutions
The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church
Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Upward Running
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Looking for a better way to manage your church or school facilities?
eSPACE is the leading facility management software built specifically for churches.
It helps you schedule events, manage work orders, and track assets – all in one place.
You can even automate things like HVAC and door access to save time and money.
Trusted by over 1,250 organizations – including some of the largest churches in the country.
If you’re tired of spreadsheets, sticky notes, or last-minute maintenance emergencies, it’s time to check out eSPACE.
Learn more and book a personalized demo at smartchurchsolutions.com/rainer/.
Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.
But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.
A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel.
Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.
Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.
Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel.
Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.
He knew exactly where to turn.
Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.
Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.
The post Which “Higher Standard” Measures Actually Make Sense for Pastors appeared first on Church Answers.

Aug 27, 2025 • 25min
How Your Building Shapes Your Ministry: Five Ways the Baptist T Still Shapes (and Limits) Your Ministry
Todd Brown and Isaac Brown, experts from Brown Church Development Group, explore how the Baptist T design still impacts churches. They discuss the limitations this architecture places on ministry, particularly in hospitality, volunteer engagement, and discipleship. The duo calls for reimagining church spaces to foster connection and adaptability. They emphasize transforming outdated facilities into flexible environments that support active participation and community relationships, urging leaders to view their buildings as tools for mission.