Svelte Radio

This week we get a glimpse into the future of Svelte and SvelteKit! Rich joins us to talk about the new thing in town, SvelteKit, as well as what the future of web development could look like.Some topics that we discuss:- Release date- SvelteKit vs Sapper- Features- Adapters- Ideas about what is nextIf you missed the talk at Svelte Summit check it out here.Picks:- Robot Vacuum- OnePlus 8T- SavvyCal- Begin.comTranscription:[00:00:00] KA: Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. I'm your host, Kevin, I run Svelte school. And today we have a very special episode, we have the creator of a Svelte, Rich Harris. But before he gets to introduce himself, we'll kick it off with our other hosts.[00:00:19] S: Hey, I’m Sean, work at AWS on random stuff, including trying to get Svelte into AWS and that is an ongoing mission.[00:00:30] A: Hi, I'm Anthony, and I'm the CTO of Biank. And also Svelte maintainer.[00:00:35] RH: And I'm a graphics editor at the New York Times currently working on SvelteKit.[00:00:42] KA: Whoo, cool. The new shiny thing before we get started, how are you? How's everything with the election and all of this stuff? How's the workload? [00:00:50] RH: For me, thankfully, it's settling down. Last week was quite a busy week for everyone. Certainly in the graphics department at the times and probably in the organization as a whole. It's very difficult to avoid getting sucked into the madness. But you know, what is fun? There's no better place to witness history than from a newsroom, even if it is a virtual newsroom scattered around people's homes.[00:01:10] KA: Something I didn't didn't appreciate about your election coverage is that you're actually spinning up visualizations fairly quickly based on what counties or states are in focus at the time. Like, there's some parts of this that you could not have prepared beforehand, right?[00:01:26] RH: Yeah, there's some sleight of hand, you know, you prepare for a variety of different outcomes. But yeah, like, as soon as the results start coming in, the politics editors, and the graphics editors who are covering this, are bashing their heads together and trying to figure out what is the story. And then that kind of filters down to the people making the charts and maps. And we all come together, we analyze data, and we try and figure out what just happened. There is some infrastructure that's already built out, because you kind of know that people are gonna want to know which parts of the country swaying in one direction. But yes, a lot of it is kind of rapid response, data visualization.[00:02:05] KA: So you've got Lego blocks for building visualizations that will tell you population, this area voted this way or whatever, you've got that sort of stuff?[00:02:14] RH: Yeah, like you know that you're going to need a lot of demographic information about counties, like we know that the results are going to be coming in per county or in New England it’s per township, because they like to do things differently. And you just have all of the data that you might possibly need in a massive spreadsheet at a time. And then you can also plug it in to make something relevant.[00:02:37] KA: Alright, so we're not here for the election. We're here for something that's more exciting. [00:02:48] RH: That’s certainly, perspective[00:02:51] KA: For sure. So we're going to talk about SvelteKit today. So before we dive in to the questions, what is SvelteKit?[00:02:59] RH: SvelteKit is, in one way it's a successor to Sapper. And you could even think of it as Sapper 1.0, if you like. But in another larger sense, it's our kind of vision for the way that you should build Svelte apps in future. It’s something that we've been kind of talking about in a peripheral sense for a long time, we've been talking about how we can evolve Sapper to take advantage of some of the recent trends in front end development, particularly the rise of serverless. And more recently, the rise of unbundled workflows, which I'm sure we'll get into later. But it all sort of came to a head recently, you know, the pace of development on Sapper had hit a bit of a low, at least until Ben McCann really picked up the baton and started churning through issues. And people were getting a little bit frustrated, I think with the progress. And Anthony is one of those people because he uses Sapper very heavily in his job. At a certain point, we're like, “What if we just started from scratch?” Like the big rewrite, as opposed to trying to get all of these ideas into what was honestly kind of a watery codebase. I sort of proposed this very hesitantly in the discord thinking everyone was going to yell at me. And instead everyone was like, “Oh, yeah, let's do that.” And so that was sort of the germ of the idea. And then over the last, I guess, month or so, the idea turned into a prototype, and the prototype turned into a project with a name. And I was, I guess, reckless enough to announce it at Svelte summit as a thing that I was working on. And then at that point, it was like a de facto, this is what we're doing. Now. This is, this is it. So now the whole team is full steam ahead. We've got some new contributors as well, people who haven't previously been on the Svelte core team are helping us out. Andreas [inaudible] is one of them and Dominic who created Sleet helping out in the repo and it's actually looking good.[00:05:00] A: I think that probably the alternate version of that story is that Rich claimed to going on holiday, he went on holiday, he came back a week later and SvelteKit appeared. And then we spent ever since bikeshedding the name.[00:05:15] RH: I promise I didn't do it on holiday. I would have been very sad, I had a really nice break. And if I'd spent it in front of a laptop, I'd have  been very unhappy with myself in trouble. It's just the way these things right, the first 80% of a project is you can build it pretty rapidly. But then once you start to get into the details, that takes the remaining 400% of the time. And that's the situation that we're in at the moment.[00:05:15] A: The modified Pareto principle.[00:05:41] KA: Obviously, I'm not so steeped in the history of Svelte as much as some other people here. But I feel like this is something that happens every now and then in rich land. This idea that a big rewrite would update just a lot of the core assumptions and change the design to something that is much more enjoyable. Is there like lessons that you learn from you know, having done things like these, for example, going from [inaudible] to Svelte? And then from pre Svelte 3 to Svelte 3? I thought that these are pretty major bumps. Right?[00:06:09] RH: Yeah, I mean, I guess the main lesson that I've learned is probably that...

This week we talk about all the awesome talks that we saw at Svelte Summit. It was a bit long, but wow, was it good! Great Event. And we hope you all come to the next one in the first half of 2021!If you missed it, you can tune-in on the Svelte Society YouTube channel. To get news about the next event, sign up to the newsletter.Show Notes: SVELTE SUMMIT - Check out the talks and the website!Transcription:[00:00:00] KA: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. I’m your host, Kevin. And I ran a site called Svelte School and I’m joined by my two co-host, Antony and Shawn.[00:00:11] AJ: I’m Antony, the CTO of Beyonk. I’m a Svelte maintainer. And actually, I can say this now, I’m currently working on Sveltekit, which is quite fun,[00:00:18] SW: Oh, that’s hot. We should talk about that. I’m Shawn. I work at AWS and temporal. I don’t really kind of work on anything, but I do use other GS a lot, so that’s fun.[00:00:30] KA: All right. Last weekend -- it was last weekend, right?[00:00:35] SW: October 18th, I had the date memorized because I was so promoting it so much.[00:00:41] KA: I have no idea. Time is not my --[00:00:45] SW: Ground circle.[00:00:46] AJ: Yeah, I know. Not mine.[00:00:47] KA: All right. What did you guys think? Was it good.?[00:00:50] SW: Yeah. I think we went very well. I wasn’t sure if I was going to stick through the whole event, but it was going to be a long one and it was very late at night and on a weekend. But then, I just found the conversation really entertaining, the talks are cool and I stuck around for the entire thing.[00:01:06] KA: Well, that’s awesome, seven hours.[00:01:08] AJ: Yeah. I mean, I also did stick around for the whole thing.[00:01:12] SW: You cycled like a billion miles.[00:01:15] AJ: Actually, it’s quite a short cycle, because I was trying to moderate the chat from my phone while sitting on the bike, watching the conference. But also, I had like the cycle trainer up and everything else. Yeah, it was interesting, trying to do too many things at one space. I think I did like 20, 25k or something, which is not impressive but it’s worth doing. It was a good feeling as well. What I found was it’s surprisingly easy to concentrate when you’re a cycle trainer watching a conference. I think that I’d like to just go to more events like that, but while cycling because it works really well.[00:01:54] KA: I like working out as well while like watching stuff because it’s nice[00:01:58] AJ: But it’s quite hard, right? I’ve tried running and watching The Simpsons and I can’t do that. It’s just impossible, but this was much easier for some reason.[00:02:06] KA: Cycling is probably a bit easier, kind of in my mind at least feels like it would be easier.[00:02:12] AJ: Yeah. Well, you’re sitting down for one thing, but also, I guess you can vary the cadence quite easily. Like you can just change gear and make it easier or harder if you want to focus on a specific bed. It’s not like you’re having to maintain it constant all the time. Yeah, it works really well, works really well, so I’ll try to do that in the future actually. Then yeah, watching the rest on the TV downstairs, and it was me watching it and enjoying it, and my wife having enforced upon her. That’s, you know, hey.[00:02:41] KA: Which talks did you guys like the most? I think my favorite was like The Web à la Mode one, for sure.[00:02:47] AJ: Oh, yeah.[00:02:47] KA: Like in a creative way, I really like that one. The flying head and --[00:02:52] AJ: Yeah. I think that’s an easy one.[00:02:55] SW: I mean, he actually I think expanded. I personally do a lot of pre-recorded classroom speaking. He’s a first-time speaker and he expanded my idea of what a pre-recorded talking do. It’s like he built that thing, and then played music. Then the rest of the talk was, had that back in music. Now, it’s just genius.[00:03:17] AJ: Yeah. It’s nice to have a pay setter like music wise. I don’t know if you have heard of the comedian, Mitch Hedberg. He’s death now, but he always had this like weird beat going onto like his entire set. It elevates it. It adds like a massive dimension to it, and I’m not really sure why. I can’t remember what the beat is. It’s like — I think it’s somebody playing an instrument called Chuck. When his jokes changed and when his jokes starts to fail, or whatever, which he do a lot because he’s kind of an abstract comedian. He will just say, “Can you just sort of ramp it up a bit, Chuck” and Chuck sort of increase this tempo a bit and change up the way it sounds.” [00:03:56] KA: That’s such a good idea.[00:03:57] AJ: It’s really good. It’s really good that way to do it, actually. So if you’ve got sort of — [inaudible 00:04:00] it’s ridiculous. But if you got somebody who can play an instrument, get him along to your talk, and they can play in the background.[00:04:09] KA: Pro tip.[00:04:09] AJ: Yeah.[00:04:10] SW: Just to mention some of the others. I realized that there’s a lot of curiosity around talks, transitions and animations. I think we have three talks. One, Nicolo Davis on crossfade, and then we had Mark Volkmann on animations and then we had Li Hau on transitions. I thought that was — I always wondered that and it’s kind of wishful for me to actually have talks like things that really explored how they work and what we can do with them.[00:04:40] AJ: Yeah. so another reason that I mentioned his talk is because, it’s really, really difficult to talk on something that’s kind of intricate and complex. It’s very to do talks — not very easy, but it’s easy to do talks on sort of more high-level subject. Building that, building this, building that. But when you try to go into complex detail about an internal of something and do a talk on it, and present, and maybe even life circumstances, which is just next level. But it’s really, really difficult and I think prepping talks, I found that I tend to shy away a bit for more complex subject, because I don’t feel like we’re understanding as good as it should be to get a talk, right? So yeah, I think extra props as people did that kind of talk as well.I think it’s also worth mentioning, Luke’s talk for me, because I think — especially since I kind of had prior knowledge of what Sveltekit was doing. It was really interesting to see how you could deploy an application to Cloudflare Work because that’s — it’s something that’s really pushing the boundaries of serverless and what we’...

We talk about the upcoming Svelte happening of the year: Svelte Summit. On October 18th at 2PM GMT you'll be able to tune-in on the Svelte Society YouTube channel. We have 18 talks lined up. Don't miss it! If you want to get a reminder, sign up to the newsletter.Show Notes: SVELTE SUMMITTranscription:[00:00:00] KA: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. We have a special episode today about the upcoming event, Svelte Summit. But before we begin, we are going to introduce ourselves. So I’m Kevin. I run Svelte School. Then we have Shawn and Antony. [00:00:19] SW: I’m Shawn. I work at AWS and I recently rewrote my blog in Elder.js. It’s fully done now. [00:00:27] A: Hi. I’m Antony. I’m the CTO of Beyonk and I’m also a Svelte maintainer. [00:00:33] KA: All right, cool. Svelte Summit, are you guys excited?[00:00:37] AJ: A part. [00:00:37] SW: Very. I’m very excited. [00:00:39] KA: Awesome. [00:00:40] SW: Awesome. [00:00:40] KA: I am as well. We have so many great talks lined up. And compared to the Svelte Society data we had a couple months ago or half a year ago, it was a long time ago. We only got like 12 proposals. But this time we got around 40, so we’re growing. That’s great. I guess we can talk a bit about some of the talks. Let's start with the –[00:01:06] SW: Yeah. I guess I also wanted to like reflect a little bit on like the journey that we took to get here. Like all three of us, we started Svelte meet ups in the cities that we lived in a year ago. Actually, the first time I came about the name Svelte Society was like at the very first meet up in New York where just kind of like introducing it to people. Then I said like in one year we could have like a – It was like a very tentative question mark, but I knew that the name was right. [00:01:37] KA: It does work well, yeah. [00:01:40] SW: So maybe we could’ve bought the domain back then, but I think it all worked out. I didn’t have confidence or faith that I could do it, so definitely like a lot of credit goes to Kev for being the lead organizer for all this. This is amazing that you actually got all these people together and organized all this, so massive kudos to Kev. [00:02:00] AJ: Absolutely, yeah. [00:02:01] KA: Thanks. Thank you. It is actually quite a lot of work when you think about it, or rather it's like comes and goes, like the workload. So at times, you have a lot to do and then – For example, this week I’m going to have a lot to do because I have to edit all the talks together into one big talk, and you have to like do the website and all of the stuff. But for next time, we’re probably just going to reuse the website or a variation of it at least. I think it works well. It looks good. Wolfer did a great job on the design as well. [00:02:38] SW: Yeah, and community conferences are definitely driven by volunteers, and I imagine every framework, every programming language runs into this when they’re just getting off the ground. And it takes people like you, people like us, to just volunteer and not wait for some other person to do it. [00:02:56] KA: Yeah. It’s very easy to just wait for something to happen. But if everyone does that, it’s never going to happen, right? So it’s a lot of fun as well. [00:03:07] SW: That's one thing I noticed, like being involved in the community opens a lot of doors. You get to meet a lot of people, talk to a lot of people that you probably otherwise wouldn't have talked to, so that’s also fun. [00:03:18] KA: Yeah. [00:03:19] AJ: I also think it’s quite –[00:03:20] KA: Even the guests that we’ve had on even on this podcast has been pretty good actually. [00:03:25] AJ: Yeah. No, I think it’s quite new. It’s something to organize and meet up in your town kind of thing. It was difficult for me because it’s not something I’ve really done or thought I could do before. But I think that taking that to a sort of global scale is a lot more difficult, and it’s something that I probably still don’t think I could do. So, yeah, like Shawn says, well done, Kev. I think that’s something that you really sort of pushed the bar there. [00:03:48] KA: I think it’s funny because in some ways I think it’s easier, and then others it’s harder for some reason. [00:03:53] AJ: Yeah. It’s the others. [00:03:55] SW: I was about to say that because when I was – I think we organized like maybe five or six Svelte Society in New York before everything shut down, and I was responsible for booking the venue, like getting everyone in the door. Sometimes, the instructions to get in the building were bad, and then people would be calling me and emailing me. Then at the same time, like being emcee or I try to sort of form out that job but sometimes I’ll be the fall back. Then also speaking because it's hard to find speakers, and then also being responsible for AV like recording it and putting online because I think the majority of the talk’s audience is always going to be online. So they always want to promote the YouTube and all that stuff like that. In one sense, like doing it online gets rid of all the physical stuff, so you can just post it to YouTube. [00:04:40] KA: Yeah, exactly. So this time around, we also have sponsors. That’s a pretty big milestone I suppose. [00:04:47] SW: Yes. [00:04:48] KA: Thank you, Daddy Bezos and – All right, let’s talk about the speakers or rather their talks. I was thinking we could start with Svelte at the Edge, powering Svelte apps with Cloudflare Workers. Have you guys worked with Workers?[00:05:07] AJ: I haven't. I haven't, no.[00:05:09] KA: I think they’re sort of like – I guess you could call them just serverless functions with a twist because they’re like web workers. [00:05:19] AJ: Yeah, it seems like title functions that sort of a lot like serverless are like on other platforms but more like kid of – I guess they have a lot less power than a real serverless function, but it makes them ideal for just sort shipping out to edge nodes everywhere. [00:05:35] KA: I think this talk is by Luke Edwards and I think he’s going to talk about server-side rendering Svelte on the Edge, which is a pretty cool idea. I'm super excited to see it, yeah. [00:05:49] AJ: I'm always interested in what you can pump into a tiny li...

Mark Volkmann has written a great book on Svelte and Sapper. We sit down with him to talk about his background, what's in the book and some more philosophical developer stuff! Keep your out on Svelte Society twitter account. We'll be giving away two copies of the book!Sponsors:Level Up Tutorials brings you cutting-edge, focused & high quality video tutorials for web developers and designers. Support the show and check out the Svelte For Beginners as well as Sapper for Beginners courses.You? Svelte Radio is currently looking for another sponsor! Send me a message at sponsor@svelte.school.Show notes:Svelte and Sapper in Action book (get 35% off by using code podsvelradio20)Mark's blog and second blog/siteTranscription:[00:00:00] KAK: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another Svelte Radio Podcast. Today, we have another guest with us. Before we get to that, let’s do introductions. I’m Kevin. I run Svelte School and I’m heavily involved in the Svelte Society community stuff for Svelte. Yeah, that's me.[00:00:18] SW: I’m Shawn I work at AWS on developer experience. Most recently, I’ve also been working on finally shipping my own site in Elderjs, which is the new Svelte static site generator. It's very fast, because it basically ships almost nothing. Yeah, I really like it.[00:00:38] AJ: Hi. I’m Antony. I’m a CTO at Beyonk, which is a platform for experienced booking. I’m also a Svelte core maintainer. I’m involve with Svelte Radio, Svelte green tea, apparently a lot of stuff that I don't know how I got involved in, but there you go. Yeah, thanks.[00:00:55] KAK: All right. The guest for today is Mark. Mark Volkmann, is that how you say it?[00:01:01] MV: That's correct.[00:01:02] KAK: Yeah. What's your deal?[00:01:05] MV: Yeah. I’m a software consultant in the St. Louis area in Missouri. I work at object computing. We provide training and consulting and all kinds of software development. These days I mostly focus on web development, but I really work in the full stack.[00:01:22] KAK: Awesome. You've written a book on Svelte, right? It's probably why you’re here.[00:01:26] MV: That’s right. Exactly.[00:01:29] KAK: How was that experience?[00:01:31] MV: It was quite challenging. I have a long history of writing. I write a lot of articles for my company that get published on our website and sent out to subscribers to those articles. I’ve been speaking at conferences and user groups for a long time and teaching classes. I had a long history of writing. This is the first time my writing has been examined this closely by a large number of reviewers. It was quite an experience trying to deal with all the feedback that I was getting.[00:02:01] KAK: Nice. Why Svelte?[00:02:03] MV: For me, it's all about developer experience. There's so many reasons to choose Svelte, but I really focus heavily on at least my own productivity. I find that I’m just way more productive in Svelte. A lot of that has to do with the features that are built in that make things so simple and result in you writing less code to get things done. For me, some of the top features are the way that you deal with state inside a component and the way that you share state across component using stores. Both of those are just so much simpler than what I see in any of the other web frameworks.[00:02:41] AJ: Yeah. I like this part that actually – I liked it so much that I took a screenshot of it. In chapter five, you have this table on component communication options and you've got props, slots, events, context, module context and stores and I think that's a really good recap of how these things go. I don't know. I never had it put so clearly to me. but I do have a special preference for stores. They were the first Svelte talk that I did at the New York City Svelte Society meetup.[00:03:08] MV: Right. When you compare it to what you have in other frameworks, like Redux and React, or Vuex and Vue, or NGRX and Angular, it's just a night and day difference in the complexity level.[00:03:19] KAK: Yeah. Your book is pretty comprehensive. I’ve skimmed through it, read parts of it. It seems like the tutorial, but on steroids. It covers pretty much everything. It feels like a good next step after doing the tutorial.[00:03:37] MV: Yeah, I think that's right. I would recommend that people go through the tutorial, because that's excellent. I did really aim to show almost every feature of Svelte and Sapper and have a simple code example of everything. Then show it in a wider context in a sample app that we build throughout the book.I think, even for myself it will be a reference going forward to look up how to do various things. That's really the style of my writing on other topics is to be a reference that I can go back to when I forget how to do something, which is quite often because as developers, we have so many things to remember that we just can't – we have to have a resource to look things up from time to time.[00:04:18] SW: Yeah. Absolutely. I noticed when I was – I was actually reading the book from when it was in more early stages, so there were obviously chunks missing, the stuff I was reading it online. I noticed that there were URLs and things like that that were probably due to go out of date pretty quickly, I just wondered as a person writing a book for something that is quite fast-moving technologically, how do you keep track of what's changed and what you need to update and what hasn't?[00:04:41] MV: Yeah. That's a tough challenge when it comes to URLs. The editor from the publisher encouraged me to not include very many of those things. I push back on that. I understand things go out of date. I would rather have good material out initially that will go out of date than just skip it all together. My tendency was to include as much as possible, even if there was a danger of it going out of date.An example of this is that in the chapter where I talk about different ways that you can deploy a Svelte app and I get into some details about services like Netlify, so I was listing a lot of details about the plans, including the prices. They didn't want me to inclu...

Houssein Djirdeh joins us to talk about performance on the web. We touch on a lot of different topics like bundle size, framework size and much more.Sponsors:Level Up Tutorials brings you cutting-edge, focused & high quality video tutorials for web developers and designers. Support the show and check out the Svelte For Beginners as well as Sapper for Beginners courses.You? Svelte Radio is currently looking for another sponsor! Send me a message at sponsor@svelte.school.Links:Perf TrackGoogle LighthouseLighthouseTooling ReportHTTP Archivesmaller-npm-packagesNicole Sullivan: Design Systems, Frameworks and BrowsersPicks:Kevin: MX Vertical - I was talking about forearms, not underarms 😭Shawn: YouTube PremiumHoussein: Dark SkyAntony: System76 LaptopTranscription:[00:00:00] KA: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. As always, we’ll start with introductions. I’m Kevin, and I ran a site called Svelte School where I teach people about Svelte as well as other fun stuff around the web. Yeah.[00:00:16] SW: Hey, everyone. I’m Shawn. I work on, I guess, on a bunch of things, but currently I’m a senior developer advocate at AWS. [00:00:24] AJ: Hey, everyone. I’m Anthony. Yeah, I also work in a bunch of things, but I can only run my own startup called Beyonk, which I’m the CTO. And I’m also a Svelte maintainer. [00:00:34] KA: Awesome. So, today we have an awesome guest on the show. Can you introduce yourself? [00:00:40] HD: Yeah, absolutely. My name is Houssein. I am a web developer advocate on Google, on the Google team. So I work with Chrome, but I also work in the focused web as a whole.  [00:00:50] SW: That’s awesome. It’s kind of my idea to bring in Houssein on the podcast, because I thought he’d be a good guest. Houssein has basically dabbled in every framework ever. I didn’t know you started out in Angular actually, but I dug through your blog and I was like, “This guy did Angular?” I first met you at Boston, React Boston, where you gave a really good talk that turned into this kind of semi-viral blog post on React performance. And now you’re dabbling in Svelte, and then between you and your twin. You cover all the frameworks. I think that’s a strategy somewhere. So, yeah. I mean, I figured you’d be a really good guest, because you have a cross-framework perspective that most people don’t. [00:01:30] HD: Yeah. No. Thanks for having me. And I’m glad you mentioned that, because I like I’ve never actually properly used Vue, but my twin brother hasn’t. He’s been really involved in that space [inaudible 00:01:39].[00:01:41] KA: So you started out with Angular. So, can you like talk us through the history of like the frameworks you’ve used? [00:01:48] HD: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.  I only gone into web development about 4, 5-ish years ago. And that happened right after I graduated from university. I was in my first job and I was just trying to get my footing and like my first sort of role. And then I sort of joined the web development, and we were building a pretty large insurance platform. And we were using AngularJS. And this was pre-component AngularJS. So we’re talking model view controllers. We’re talking root scope, and bindings, and dependency injection, and services. So that was kind of my first hurrah into the frameworks world, which is interesting, because I think we see a lot of discussion on Twitter and the like about how a lot of people think it’s better to just first understand JavaScript, the basics of JavaScript before you jump in to a framework. There’re a lot of other people who think it doesn’t really matter. Learning is learning. I think that for me was a forcing function for me to just learn JavaScript, because I had no idea what was going on in the beginning. So I felt really lost for at least a few months. Funny story, it was me and my twin brother at the same job sitting side-by-side working on the project for a year. [00:03:02] KA: I can really relate to getting forced to learn JavaScript by doing frameworks.  [00:03:08] HD: Right? Exaxctly. [00:03:08] KA: Same thing for me. Yeah.  [00:03:09] HD: Right? Exactly. But I think after a few months, I started actually also spending some time learning JavaScript on my own, but also trying to understand how AngularJS worked. Like things started clicking and I was like, “Okay. Wow! Now, I can see why it makes sense to use a framework.” And then from then on, it just kept growing where I tried dabbling in Angular 2 when it was brand-new and I started learning how to use Angular 2+. And then about a year after that, I started using React. I actually started using React Native before React, because I was like it might be cool to just build a mobile app, and I had an idea for a mobile app. So whatever time that I had in the side, like I was still doing my day job, but I would go home and I was like, “Let me try to build a mobile app.” It took a long time. I did it and it’s super cool. And then I only used React for the web after I used React Native, which is I think an interesting direction. But I think it was also cool took, because it actually showed me how the framework worked.[00:03:59] KA: Yeah. Most people usually do it the other way around, right? They start with React, and then React Native. [00:04:04] HA: Exactly. Exactly.  [00:04:05] SW: Yeah. Well, you wrote the book on React Native too. That’s fun.  [00:04:09] HA: Yeah. So I worked with Devin, who at the time was at Airbnb, but now he does freelancing and a lot of contracting work. And then I worked for Fullstack.io. They’re a publishing company. But I wrote an Angular book with them first. So like a modern AngularJS book. Yeah. And it was an interesting idea at the time, because Angular 2+ is already out. And, Nate, one of the main organizers in the publishing company was like, “Maybe we should actually talk about actually building AngularJS apps using all the new tooling in AngularJS ecosystem.” How do you build component AngularJS subs? How do you migrate to Angular 2+? It’s a very interesting idea, and I actually saw the merit behind it, because I’ve seen large AngularJS apps in a lot of com...

Li Hau joins us to talk about his experience contributing to Svelte and how he got started. We talk about the best way to get involved as well as his compiler handbook. Enjoy!Sponsors:Mono is a digital product studio that works remotely. Within the Svelte community you might know Wolfr he is a designer that worked on the Routify, Svelte Society day and Svelte Summit website. He wanted to sponsor this episode with a simple message: as a design team, they are open for client projects. They have extensive experience designing web applications with full-on custom design systems. Mono is typically responsible for the UI and UX in a project and they work alongside developer teams.Level Up Tutorials brings you cutting-edge, focused & high quality video tutorials for web developers and designers. Check out the Svelte For Beginners as well as Sapper for Beginners courses.Links: Compile Svelte in your head part one, two and threeCompiler HandbookPlenti - an SSG/site builder for SvelteShepard - a library for guiding users through your appDoes Svelte Scale?Flare in SvelteMeetups:Svelte Society Day France - September 27th, 13 talks!Svelte Brazil - September 1st Svelte Philippines Facebook GroupSvelte Summit is on October 18th - CFP and Sponsors can apply nowPicks:£700 dishwasher for £30 using Gorilla GlueGitHub changing of default branchFrontend HorseKevin Powell YouTube Channel (CSS stuff!)Transcription:[00:00:00] KA: Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. Today, we have another guest. But first, let’s get into introductions. I’m Kevin. I run a site called Svelte School, where I teach you all about Svelte and what to do and what not to do in Svelte. Soon, we are going to have our first video course. Keep looking. Yeah, that's me.[00:00:26] SW: Exciting. I’m Shawn. Hi. I’m also known as Swyx. I work at AWS as a developer advocate. What have I done with Svelte recently? I played around with Elder.js and I’m working on moving my own site over to Elder.js as a static site generator built in Svelte.[00:00:42] AJ: Hi. I’m Antony. I’m the CTO of Beyonk, which is an adventure, well, a venture experience booking platform. I’m also a Svelte maintainer and I have very high CPU usage. Yeah.[00:00:59] KA: All right. Our guest for today is Li Hau. You might know him from his contributions to Svelte. I’ll let him introduce himself.[00:01:09] TLH: Hello, everyone. I’m Li Hau. I guess, my full name is Tan Li Hau. Tan is my family name. You can find me @lihautan on Twitter. Who am I? I’m a Svelte contributor as well, like Antony. A bit of myself; I’m currently in Singapore like Shawn, like Swyx. Actually, I’m originally from Malaysia. For those who don't know where Malaysia is, it's a Southeast Asia country right between Thailand and Singapore. That's where I’m from. It has better food, no offense, than Singapore. Although the culture-wise and weather and everything is almost the same.I’m currently working at Shopee as a front-end developer. Shopee is this e-commerce platform, we would say the leading number one e-commerce in Southeast Asia. For those who don't know about Shopee, last year we had Ronaldo as our ambassador. It's very funny. I promise you. You can search for Shopee Ronaldo and we get him to do a baby shark dance with Shopee. That's hilarious. You have to check it out. I think a lot of people who are not in this region would think that Shopee and Shopify is related, but we are not.[00:02:30] SW: I had a friend from Malaysia when I was young. His dad owned a restaurant in Manchester and one day he went to the restaurant and he said, “Order anything you like, any food you want, because it's all free. You can have anything you like.” It's amazing. I ordered my what I thought would be amazing dish and it came to the table. When it arrived, he immediately thought it was his and stuck his fork right in the middle of it and stuck it on his plate. I was like, “No.” Yeah, I didn't really eat much Malaysian food that day, sadly.[00:03:02] KA: I would say the food in Malaysia is pretty good. I went a couple years ago. I like it.[00:03:07] AJ: For those who get to eat, I’m sure it's wonderful.[00:03:12] TLH: Hopefully, one day after the pandemic is over then, maybe you guys can come over and I can bring you guys around, hopefully.[00:03:18] KA: Yeah, that sounds good.[00:03:19] AJ: Amazing.[00:03:20] KA: What got you interested in Svelte?[00:03:23] TLH: Well, so I would say I was interested in the idea of Svelte early on. Maybe a bit more background about myself with the company. Basically, in Shopee, I’m on a so-called working platform-related stuff, which means that I work less on future related stuff, but more on fixing your webpack config and table config, upgrading labels and stuff. That's because I volunteered into this role and we made this role into me.I was playing with all this webpack, Babel and all this stuff. Once in a while, we encounter weird bugs, because we upgrade to the latest version. I have to figure out why by basically reading the source code of Babel, for example, to figure out why. Then slowly and slowly, I get more familiar with them and I started to actually make code fixes and make a PR to them. That's how I get into open source.At some point in time, I have this idea of you can play with Babel after a while, I was thinking, why don't we compile JSX and React into what ...

This week we announce the new online conference Svelte Summit as well as talk about Elder.js - an amazing new static site generator. Oh! And some good news. From this episode and on, we have an editor and the episodes will be transcribed.Sponsors:Mono is a digital product studio that works remotely. Within the Svelte community you might know Wolfr he is a designer that worked on the Routify, Svelte Society day and Svelte Summit website. He wanted to sponsor this episode with a simple message: as a design team, they are open for client projects. They have extensive experience designing web applications with full-on custom design systems. Mono is typically responsible for the UI and UX in a project and they work alongside developer teams.Level Up Tutorials brings you cutting-edge, focused & high quality video tutorials for web developers and designers. Check out the Svelte For Beginners as well as Sapper for Beginners courses.Links: Svelte Society Day France - September 27th, 13 talks! Svelte Summit is on October 18th - CFP and Sponsors can apply now!Routify 2.0RoxiElder.js - A new crazy-fast static site generator built for SEO and many other use-cases. Partial hydration using Jason Miller's Islands ArchitectureSvelte Tutorial on MDNPicks:StreamyardGloomhavenJack Box GamesTranscription:EPISODE 09[INTRODUCTION][00:00:00] KA: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another Svelte Radio Podcast. This week, we don’t have a guest. But as usual, the three of us are here. So, I’m Kevin. I run a site called Svelte School, where you can find tutorials and the training material to learn Svelte. And I’m joined by my two other cohosts, Shawn and Anthony. Do you want to go ahead and present yourselves? [00:00:28] SW: Hey, everyone. This is Shawn. I guess I have to do some self intro. I work at AWS as a senior developer advocate, and happy to be here. [00:00:38] AJ: I’m Anthony, and I the CTO of Beyonk, which is a booking platform, book software for experiences and travel. And I am also a Svelte maintainer. [00:00:49] KA: Amazing. So since last time, what have you guys been up to? Have you done anything interesting? [00:00:57] SW: Well, I can go while you guys think of your updates. I can only think about the things that I’ve been doing recently, which is not doing Svelte. So kind of the biggest community React Conference is called React Rally, and it’s happening tomorrow. And I spent the last two weeks essentially – Well, this is Svelte related. I’ve created Svelte for React. Basically, the way that you do immutability and sort of assignment in Svelte, you can actually just point that over to React. I did that. And then I made a whole talk around it with the whole idea of like why you should be experimenting with different formats and stuff like that. Preparing any talk is big, but I think this conference is special to me because that’s how I first stated. That’s my first ever conference in 2018. That’s the first talk I ever gave. And I owe a lot to that conference. So I wanted to do a good job.[00:01:54] AJ: Yeah. From my point, it has been 38+ degrees here in the UK and it’s very hard to work and very hard to think in that kind of heat. And specially we don’t have air con in our houses and stuff like that. So it’s just a matter of – I don’t even know. There’s no way to stay cool. But meanwhile, I’ve been obviously working hard in my startup, which is Beyonk. And then we’ve been doing a fair bit of Svelte work. So mostly that and making contribution a bit easier. Getting some PRs closed and that sort of thing. Yeah, all kind of very software-related and the crazy heat.[00:02:39] KA: Okay. So I’ve been working these last few weeks on the new Svelte Society Day website as well as the upcoming conference that we’re going to talk about in a bit. Spoiler alert. Then today we are also going to talk about some other stuff. There’s new static side generator. Routify just released their 2.0 release, and a couple of other random things. Let’s get started. First off, Svelte Society Day France. I heard they had like a lot of proposals.[00:03:17] SW: Yeah, they did better than you. They’ve got some proposals so far. I’m not sure when this is going to release, but they’re aiming to close proposals on 16 of August. But they have a good selection. It’s always better to have more, I think. And I think the actual event is happening at the end of September. If I was any good at this job, I would have their URL in front of me. It’s actually france.sveltesociety.dev. Basically, if you speak French and you do Svelte, you should come to this meet-up, or conference, or whatever it is, on the 27th of September, and it will be a good time.[00:03:54] AJ: I think it’s worth noting. We’re talking about it in Discord and they were saying that sort of majority French talks, but not exclusively. So they might have some English language talks as well. [00:04:05] KA: Yeah. I was going to say, I’m going to check it out even if I don’t speak French.  [00:04:11] AJ: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There might be opportunity there if you don’t speak French. They’ll also still – They’ll join in and participate and sort of learn some stuff.[00:04:18] KA: Yeah. All right. The big one, Svelte Summit 2020. This is the new conference. Yeah.  [00:04:28] AJ: With the shiny, shiny site.  [00:04:31] KA: Exactly. By the time you listen to this, the website is going to be alive, and you’re going to find it on three different URLs. But mainly I would probably go to sveltesummit.com. So this is pretty much the new Svelte society day, but with a shinier name, cooler website and more speakers, hopefully. We’ll see. We’ll be opening the call for proposals as soon as this podcast goes out. [00:05:00] AJ: But what sort of talks are we looking for for these companies?  [00:05:04] KA: That’s a good question. If you’re interested in doing a talk, I would submit it regardless of the subject pretty much as long as it’s Svelte related, of course.  ...

This week we had the pleasure to be joined by Amelia Wattenberger. Amelia is a journalist-engineer working at The Pudding where she builds stuff using, among other things, Svelte! We talk about Svelte, D3, React and loads of fun stuff. Enjoy!Show notes and links (in no particular order):Scaling SVG ElementsPercent in CSSSvelte RecipesWrite Less, Do More (Rich Harris talk, ending on a bit about saving the world using Svelte!)I probably missed some - sorry about that 😬Picks:StretchlyFocusStackCentr

This week we had the pleasure of speaking with the creator of Svelte, Rich Harris. The topics of the podcast can be seen below but first we have a big announcement! TypeScript support for Svelte is finally, officially here! Hallelujah! Links and other fun stuff: Frontend Masters course by Rich Harris Svite Pancake and Layercake MalinaJS Picks (amazon affiliate links): The Executioner Raspberry Pi 4 Microsoft Sculpt Volumio

After a couple of weeks we're once again back, talking about all things Svelte! This episode we discuss a whole lot of stuff: the next Svelte Society Day, maintainers meet, recipes, some new resources and a cool new Podcast Player for KaiOS. Check out the deets below in no particular order: New Svelte Society website (Staging!). Help out by contacting me, i'm @Kev on the Svelte Discord. Amelia Wattenberger's svelte.recipes site Svite = Svelte + Vite. Use Svelte and Vite Cloud Native Web Development by Mike Nikles A new static site generator called JungleJS Learn in Public book page written in Svelte. Hosted on begin. Also some talk about Cloudflare Worker Sites. Showcase topics: PodLP, Unofficial newsletter, July 18th Meetup in India, Pokedex, Textmoji, Svelte Society France and CFPs Picks: Sensible Side Buttons, Twitter Links, Foam