Svelte Radio

Note: This was recorded on February 19th. Sveltesummit CFPs are currently closed. Sponsors: Support Svelte Radio by leaving a review on iTunes and/or visit our support page.Description:We sit down with Simon Holthausen to talk about the Svelte language-tools, TypeScript and all that juicy stuff! Some notes Description, show notes and transcription coming soon. This was accidentally released a bit early. Sorry about this!- Language Tools repo- Simon on GitHub- Svelte Component TemplateUnpopular opinions:- Antony: Case-insensitive file systems are bad- Simon: I use Windows- Shawn: Don't use throw unless you want the program to crash! Errors are not exceptions!Picks:Kevin: Yubikey 5C NanoAntony: Clean Co - Low Alcohol SpiritShawn: Princess Bride Home MovieSimon: Fasching - German festivalsTranscription:Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  0:00  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. Today we have yet another guest surprise. We always have guests these days. But first, some introductions. So I'm Kevin, I run a site called Svelte school. And I'm heavily involved in Svelte society, and help out around the Svelte community.Shawn  0:22  I'm Shawn, I am still in the process of switching jobs, but hopefully building a Svelte app in production from a next startup. And I mostly should post on Twitter, first of all society. We also did just launched the CFP for the Svelte summit conference that is going to be happening in April, I think, and I'm very excited about organising speakers for that.Antony  0:46  I'm Antony I'm the ccfp og which is a booking system for tourism leisure. I'm also a Svelte maintainer, alongside our guest today, who is Simon halt Hauser. And Simon is the I've got it. What can I say is he's the he's the person in charge of language tools. He's He's the code here behind that is absolutely on fire at the moment. I would probably say it's one of the most active sort of segments of the spell organisation. So all credit to him. And the community, of course. So Simon, I'll let you continue with your introduction.Simon Holthausen  1:22  Yeah, thank you for the warm words. I'm some. I work as a software engineer at a company called xo do software development and consulting. And yeah, I, I don't know more by accident than anything. I stumbled into the spelter world got really hyped. helped out getting the language tools, VS code extension forward and yeah. Now I'm a Svelte maintainer, like Antony. And yeah, really? Thanks for having me.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  1:57  Yeah, exciting. So you're you're also known on the Svelte discord as Doom Doom, right?Simon Holthausen  2:03  Yeah, right. It's my handle. Yeah.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  2:05  Yeah. Where does that come from?Simon Holthausen  2:09  Yeah, so my, my my original nickname back in the days when I was in puberty, was Hitman Faker. I thought that was a very cool name at that time. And after puberty was over, I thought, No, that's, that doesn't work where email? So I thought, Okay, I need a new nickname. And I was humming along like them to them. What kind of pig? And then I thought, Oh, why why not take this? This? Dum dee dum? Yeah. And so it was just like, it's called loudly fire in German. So.Antony  2:49  Wow. That was loud.Simon Holthausen  2:53  Louder. The word for writing something down? That sounds exactly like you.Shawn  3:02  Automatic. Yeah.Antony  3:06  Yeah. I was gonna say it's more like Him. There's another word for isn't there. When a word sounds like the thing that it describes, is that Onomatopoeia?Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  3:19  This is above my paygrade podcast. Alright, so so TypeScript, what's are sorry, language tools? What's going on there?Simon Holthausen  3:30  TypeScript is a big part of language tools. That's definitely right. So yeah, I was, I was here on the on the show about, I don't know, almost a year ago. And I skimmed through some of the issues that we close since then, or we got since then. And yeah, so what changed between then and now. So it's, overall, we just worked hard to get rid of all the edge cases that people might occur when they just coding. And I think, especially all these edge cases, when you when you're in the zone, and you're coding, and then your intelligence does something stupid, that can really put you off, and we are trying really hard to minimise that. new things are about. We also added a lot of new things like we now have auto completion for events. So if you define event by create Event Dispatcher from another component, you get auto completion for that in the component that uses the components. You can get comments for the props and events. So if you hover over it, you see the docks, there were some new refactoring commands like extract into function, which works similar to the JavaScript or TypeScript one. Cool. We got a simple Extract into components refactoring. So you can select a part of a component in the markdown, which you want to extract into a new function. And it just can right click, and then there should be a extract components, add components command in the context menu. And then you can specify what's what's, what's the name of the component, and then it will transfer that HTML into the other component, and write the input for you.Antony  5:34  So just just for the somebody who's let's pretend I'm completely uneducated in TypeScript, not because I am no, I definitely am. Imagine if you're also completing events. And you've got like a series of events that click and you've got things like, key up and key down. Are you maintaining a huge list of events that match the Svelte API? Or are you using, say, the type definitions within Svelte to generate those auto completions? How does that how does that work?Simon Holthausen  6:00  It works. Actually, it kind of is like that. So that there are two parts to that. One is that we use the HTML language service that VS code uses for its HTML intelligence. And that one defines a lot of those events. So if you do auto completion, you'll get that from that. But we also have to define and keep track of a really big list of all these events inside a type definition file, so that we can show arrows, like, okay, you're using a new event that doesn't exist. So for that we have two people, ever growing list of events.Antony  6:47  So you have this duplicate list that matches Svelte, right? Yes, we do. So is there a way to Is there a way to maybe like, use that if that list existed a bit within Svelte itself? Is there a way to use that list from there? Or is that is that not a thing? That's possible?Simon Holthausen  7:04  So there was, I don't know some kind of Jason definition, we could definitely look into generating something out of that. Yeah, that would be possible.Antony  7:13  That'd be interesting PR, because I've, I've seen the code that adds those events to elements inside Svelte. And it's kind of like a big if state...

Ben McCann joins us to talk about the next version of Sapper as well as SvelteKit. We touch on migration from Sapper to SvelteKit, what's going to happen with Sapper as well as some good news for developers using Webpack.Notes:svelte-loaderrollup-plugin-svelteUnpopular Opinions: Code comments stink!Tailwind is hard to readStatic site generators are becoming obsoletePicks: Kitty terminalTado Smart HeatingNarcos MexicoAudacityTranscript:Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  0:00  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. Today we have another guest for you all, but first introductions. I'm Kevin, I run Svelte radio and Svelte school, and I'm involved in the Svelte community in general.Shawn  0:18  I'm Shawn, same here, I guess. I don't read anything. But I guess I've been working on recently the Svelte actions package, trying to have a good set of defaults for Svelte to export. So it inspires people to use actions more. That's me.Antony  0:34  I'm Anthony. I'm a CTO of biank also stopped maintainer along with our guests today, which is Ben McCann, who is also Svelte maintainer, a very, very recent one, in fact, not not recently. It's been a while now. So Ben has come in on the back of a huge amount of prs. And he produces them so fast. And he's really pushed the development of stealth itself, but also sapper significantly forward. And yeah, what else? What else is this? There's a lot to Ben. He's extremely polite, nice. And I really, really like that. It's quite refreshing to find the person. And oh, I have to Ben.Ben McCann  1:13  Yeah. It's great to be here with you all today. Thanks for for having me on the show. So how I get so much done, I don't have a day job right now. So that gives me a little more time. I started a start up a few years ago. And so I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm in between companies right now trying to figure out my next one. And, you know, I picked up Svelte to kind of refresh my tech skills and our startup, we were using Angular and don't want to do that again. So it's trying to figure out what's new in the landscape, and hadn't been coding for a number of years as a more of a management role. So I just want to kind of get caught up on two things, and really enjoyed been using Svelte these past few months,Shawn  2:02  I was just just curious how you first heard about it, because you know, it might someone in your position, you might just go for react as sort of the the most popular framework of the day.Ben McCann  2:13  Yeah. So I mean, one of the ideas that I was experimenting with was for a content based site where I thought that this speed was going to be really important, and performance was going to be really important. And so I really liked that with Svelte, you didn't have to download a runtime, like you do with react. And so, you know, the initial page loads were a lot faster. So that's kind of how I got involved. And then, you know, with snapper, there were a lot of other really nice performance improvements. And those were some of the the first things I started working on when I got involved in sapper. So, you know, one of the things that we did was we added preload headers. So when you first visit a page will fetch all the assets that you need for that page. So instead of having to wait for if one script depends on another script, instead of having to wait for the first script to run and fetch that second script, the page will automatically fetch both of those at the beginning. And so we we kind of crawl your dependency tree and make sure that those are all fetched at the beginning. And then, you know, it's also got CSS code splitting, which is something that, you know, had a few bugs in the past recent releases getting that all worked out. But I think that's really gotten to a very nice place now, where we have, you know, it's always had JavaScript code splitting. And now the CSS is really, I think, a lot easier to manage as well. And so with all that code splitting, you know, it's a really nice performance benefit of using sapper.Antony  4:00  So what the one thing I want to ask him, as I mentioned, the intro, intro that you you were intrapreneur. But also, I believe, and I could be wrong here. But I think you're also a VC of sorts. Is that right?Ben McCann  4:10  Yeah, I've been doing a bunch of investing as an angel investor. And so I've invested in probably about two dozen companies at this point.Antony  4:20  Wow. Very cool.Ben McCann  4:22  As far as I know, none of them use Svelte but I'll spread.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  4:27  I gotta push, you gotta push for for Svelte.Antony  4:31  Cool. Any, any, any successes? Yeah. Those that Funchal,Ben McCann  4:35  um, we actually pretty. One of the first companies we invested in pretty interesting company, they're doing water propelled propulsion in space. And they just announced that they're IPL ng, so they announced that late last year and that should happen sometime q1 we thinkAntony  4:57  very cool.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  4:58  Wow. I wonder how that works. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that seems crazy. It's,Ben McCann  5:04  it's got a nice a lot of nice benefits, like a lot of the chemicals that are used for propulsion, traditionally are very toxic. And so that's not not probably not the main benefit of doing this, but it's a nice side benefit. So the idea is basically that, you know, if you're going to launch a satellite into orbit or something on SpaceX, they kind of drop you into a number of like default orbits. But then if you want to get to your own custom orbit fill, fill act is like a shuttle to get you to your final destination.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  5:42  That's cool. All right, so sapper. Is that point? 28. Right now, is that that's not the last version. Right?Ben McCann  5:50  So we've got one more, at least in the works. Zero Point 29 is coming up soon. And, you know, obviously, there's there's been a lot of talk about Svelte kit. And so that's where a lot of the development focuses right now. But in the meantime, there's still a lot of prs that we've been getting for smaller issues in sapper that we wanted to try to get in and get another release out. So I think, you know, probably the biggest highlight is for all our TypeScript users. we've, we've gotten, I think, probably like four or five changes in two separate 29 for TypeScript definition improvements, which will be a really nice quality of life improvement for our TypeScript users. TypeScript supports pretty new within Svelte in general. And so there's there's a lot of other places in the Svelte ecosystem where we've been making a lot of TypeScript improvements as well. But But sapper is definitely one of them. And then, you know, I think the other place in in sapper zero point 29, where we've seen a lot of improvements are in the router. So a lot of fairly minor bug fixes. But But things that that are just kind of nice usability improvements. There's been a couple scroll tracking bug fixes that w...

A new year, a new Svelte Radio episode!Notes:GDC Spiderman Technical PostmortemMac Mini M1Asus PN50Mighty BrowserPerkins Brother Builder YouTube ChannelListenAddictMultrisTiny House Guysvelte-querySvelte ZoomableSvelte Community Stuff:Svelte Society Canada looking for a logoSvelte DublinOfficial Svelte NewsletterPicks: Bone Conducting HeadphonesDevmode.fm and Andrew WelchFibonacci Goal SettingSwedish Meatball Recipe:Makes 4 big portions.Ingredients:500g minced beef/pork 50/50 mix (I prefer to use lamb mince)0.8 dl breadcrumbs1 dl milk (3% fat)1tsp salthalf a yellow onion1 egg0.5 tsp pepper, some mustard (dijon works)0.5 dl dark syrup (molasses should work)butterSteps: Chop onion finely and fry in butter until softMix breadcrumbs spices, salt, egg and mustard in a bowl and let sit for 10 minutesAdd the mince and mix well (don't overdo it! It can get tough if you work it too hard!)Form smaller balls (half the size of a golf ball is a nice size) and fry them in butter.Transcription:Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  0:00  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte radio first one of the year. Not a lot happened over the holidays. But we're going to go through the new stuff anyway. But first, some introductions. I'm Kevin, I run a site called Svelte School, where I teach people about Svelte and I'm involved in the community side of Svelte as well. Yeah,Shawn  0:22  I'm Shawn, I work at AWS on AWS amplify, and we are we actually unfixed unbroke, the salt society website recently, so I'm proud of that, even though I didn't really do much there. So shout out to the silentworks, who actually figured out the Modify issue that we had.Antony  0:40  Nice. I'm Anthony. I'm the CTO of a company called Beyonk, which is a travel and tourism stars in the UK. I'm also a Svelte core maintainer.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  0:48  Cool. So what have you guys been doing over the holidays?Shawn  0:52  Oh, yeah, we so we figured we will start off with like some updates, right. So I think we some of us got ourselves like Christmas presents. Something I realised actually in catching up with my team at AWS is that everyone bought games, like the games industry must be huge right now. Yeah, I mean, this is not that this is not a surprise, but like, really, because there's nothing else to buy. Yeah, youAntony  1:15  say games? Do you mean like board games? Or do you mean like computer games? Shawn  1:19  Mostly? Mostly computer games, butalso board games? I think I think people went for computer games first. And then we realised that we like the digital stimulation or whatever. It's easier to set up computer games.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  1:33  Have you guys seen the like the cyberpunk game? So what cyberpunk looks amazing. Also very buggy. I was actually I,Shawn  1:43  the bugs are the fun part, right? Like you could see one of my top posts on Reddit, the past week was showing off like the amazing detail of the shadowing, of cyberpunk. And how like, even when you hold the rifle, the shadows fall on the rifle and you can you can move around. And then a guy kept on walking backwards. And the shadow came from a car that was being suspended in the air. Because the graphics were like screwed up, like, but the shadows are great.Antony  2:12  I mean, this is the bit I didn't understand because what makes game appealing, in my mind the games appealing games feel is in its gameplay, and how explorable is and things like that. I don't know much about games. I mean, I'm a Linux user. I don't really have many games like in the store. Maybe maybe tux racer? I don't know. But I guess the point is for me like I love bugs in games, I think they're I think they're brilliant. They make it much more interesting, but I'm not really a gamer. It looks like so put looks amazing. I've seen some live streaming on Twitch it looks incredible to look at. But honestly from from the brief bit that I looked at it for the game looks like GTA, which is fine in my books, because GTA is the one game that I do occasionally play. The graphics is amazing. But the thing for me is I've heard that the AI is just not really there. Like characters don't even have the basic error you find in games, they just kind of wander around aimlessly into traffic. Like, for me, that takes away a lot of what makes GTA appealing in that there's a sense of realism. If I want to just drive around and follow the road rules and interact with people, then I could do that. And if the AI is not working, then that's gone. So it may be a personal thing, but I feel like they're missing a big trick by not having that sort of stuff ready. And it's not it's prioritised been done a million times. Right. So where Why can't it just be working?Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  3:28  Right? Right.Shawn  3:29  The I'm sure obvious answer is that they rushed it. Sure.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  3:34  Yeah, sure. Probably probably the explanation actually. Yeah.Antony  3:39  So that's all games rushed synthesiser?Shawn  3:41  Yeah, probably true. So well. I wanted to point people to resource the GDC YouTube channel Game Dev conference had a really good breakdown of the Spider Man ps4 ai, where it actually shows you how, because Spider Man has infinite rendering. And you can see people you can theoretically interact with any single pedestrian on the street could attack them, you can talk to them whenever. And it's a really interesting choreography of choreography of how it's random AI and then the moment you interact with them, then they're sort of possessed by a different sort of AI and they talk a lot about it. And yeah, it's it's, it's that sounds pretty much as open source as Game Dev can get without actually sharing the code.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  4:25  Yeah, all right. So so you guys treated yourself to some new presents, I heardShawn  4:32  Sure. My problem is I don't I don't have like a full report and everyone else. So I Oh, okay, I'll the headline is I got a m one. MacBook Mini. Sorry, a Mac Mini. And that's the first desktop that I've purchased ever. You know? Well, because every prior PC that I've ever made, I actually assembled I bought it assembled and obviously You can't do that...

This time we're joined by Svelte core maintainer Luke Edwards, known for his many NPM packages. We talk Cloudflare Workers, his jest alternative uvu and a bunch of other cool stuff.Guest: Luke Edwards. Twitter. GithubHosts: Kevin, Shawn, AntonyNotes:Svelte at the edgeError Component by HyberlabSentry PolkaUvuKlona svelte-preprocess-esbuild svelte-preprocess Cloudflare WorkersPicks:RummikubGoogle Stadia Cookie Clicker Monopoly DealTranscription:Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  0:00  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. Today we have another guest on the show. But first introductions. I'm Kevin, and I run a site called Svelte school where I teach people about Svelte. And yeah, that's me. Shawn  0:15  I'm Shawn. I work as a developer advocate at AWS. And I guess I do stuff on this whole Twitter's Antony  0:24  Hi, I'm Antony. I'm the CTO of a startup called biank. I'm a supposed Svelte maintainer. And yeah, that's about it really, I'm also going to introduce the guest, because I know everything there is to know about Luke. So our guest is Luke. And Luke is not Australian. That's the first most important thing there. And so Luke Edwards is an Australian Californian, that's very important to know. He's also a co maintainer of Svelte. And he's the creator of polka, which is an express alternative, which is focused around speed. And also modularity, I believe. And he's been recently involved in deploying loads of stuff to CloudFlare work, which is interesting, this whole talk on that you can watch, it's also worth mentioning that Luke owns the most number of open source modules on NPM out of anyone. And that's a fact, really, anything you want to add to that, that's not true.Luke Edwards  1:20  And that's pretty much it, I do do a lot of stuff in the open source world. And I imagine we'll talk about some of that. But for the most part, just keep my head down and enjoy building things. So that's kind of what that means contract work or salary positions doesn't really matter. I just love to get my get my hands dirty.Antony  1:37   So you don't code for money. As a rule, you code for passion. And money is a convenient side, Luke Edwards  1:42  I code for interest, I kind of tell I turn away a lot of not a lot. But I turn away clients with that sometimes, just because if I if I'm not interested in it, then it's not gonna turn out well, and I'm gonna find excuses to try to stop doing it. Antony  1:56  Nice. It's funny, because I saw Twitter so quite recently about actually, what got you into tech. And the amount of people who replied by just showing a little bullet emoji was quite shocking. Actually, I couldn't imagine being it just for the money just wouldn't work for me. Shawn  2:11  I mean, I'd say I'd say it's partially for the money for me.Antony  2:16  Fair enough. I mean, it's not you have a passion in it. Right. You have you you enjoy what you do you enjoy advocating as well, and that sort of thing. But just for the money, just, and they enjoy life, right. Enjoy life first. And then yeah, like,Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  2:29   I don't I don't think I could see myself doing something I didn't want to do. Don't want to do Antony  2:35  No, definitely not. Luke Edwards  2:37  It's also kind of amazing, because like, some people would make like hard career changes, right? Where they're like struggling and stuff, and they'll invest the six months, whatever it is, maybe less, and, like, dramatically turn their lives around. So it does start as just money. But like it's so that they can actually do something else and get by better. That's a good point. Maybe people can grow a passion for it when they start doing it. Maybe that's how they got into it. But that's not how they how they were they were maybe Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  3:05  i think that's that's definitely true. Luke Edwards  3:07  I think that's actually kind of at the core how I started to like, I actually was like, enrolled in med school. I hadn't started I was doing all the like, prereqs and stuff. Antony  3:16  wowLuke Edwards  3:16  I guess, disclaimer, self taught. But I was maintaining a nutrition blog to kind of like Chronicle my journey through what would be med school and stuff. And as I'm preparing and like working on this, how do I make my WordPress do expert? How do I make this better? I just unfolded more and more. And at some point, like someone just handed me a client said, Hey, do you think you can build this? Sure, I'll give it a crack. And I got paid. I was like, Well, why? Why am I gonna sign my life away for another like six to 10 years before I start getting paid? If I can just do this now? And yeah, then a passion developed? Because just questions be folded more questions, though.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  3:56  So you started in WordPress, then? Yeah, your coding career? Yeah. Yeah.Luke Edwards  4:02  Luckily, I have not touched it. And it's been a decade, but it's still alive. It's still kicking.Kevin Åberg Kultalahti  4:10  So can you take us through what what your journey has been from WordPress to where you are now.Luke Edwards  4:18  So I mostly started as a designer, actually. So I was doing my own WordPress stuff. And you always focus on design, and I wanted to cool carousels and stuff. So my first that first client I was talking about was mostly a design work. And then I just implemented it and like basic HTML, CSS, which was all it needed, was mostly design base, and then, you know, a cup that lended itself to other projects that basically I got lucky and it became like word of mouth thing because they knew no one. So all those sort of projects just sort of like honed my design skill set, but then it also honed more front end work. So I basically I started going from backbone route into Marionette and then into I stuck with Riot for a long time. But basically a lot of fun and work in that at some point over, like the next three or four years I started having to work with, or alongside backend engineers, so back into WordPress back into custom PHP stacks, so a lot of Code Igniter, a lot of beginning Laravel stuff. And so I just that gave me some the beginnings of the full stack experience. And then I became more full stack key on future clients, same clients or new ones, and basically lived with a foot in each world fo...

We talk about what's new with SvelteKit, how to contribute and other news in Svelteland!This week Karine joins us to discuss community, news and other Svelte related things. Have a listen.Notes:- Newsletter (sign up to the unofficial mailing list here)- rollup-plugin-svelte changes CSS defaults- Crown Framework and the site built using it.- Ruby on Rails DoctrinePicks:- Shawn: Mandalorian- Kevin: reMarkable 2 - Antony: Asus PN50- Karine: Queen's GambitTranscription:Kevin  0:00  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. Today we're going to discuss what's happened in Svelte these last few weeks, maybe months. But first, some introductions. I'm Kevin, I run Svelte school. I'm heavily involved in the Svelte community. And yeah, that's me.Shawn  0:20  Hey, everyone. I'm Shawn. I work at AWS and I mostly should post on Twitter. That's my job.Antony  0:28  Hey, I'm Anthony. I'm a maintainer of Svelte and I am the CTO of beyond. Nice.Kevin  0:35  And today we're joined by none other than Ah, Hi,Karine  0:39  I'm Karine. And I work in Seneca in France and I'm the CO organiser of Svelte society day France.Shawn  0:48  Oh, welcome, welcome. Antony  0:50  And you have a cool discord name as well. Shawn  0:52  K6 what is Yeah, what is key six?Karine  0:54  Oh, it's just because Karine is six letters and K6 is shorter Antony  0:58  It's the thing right is KubernetesShawn  1:03  Numeruneum. There's a term for that Antony  1:05  numeruneum. I see!Kevin  1:07  I did not know that.Shawn  1:09  For those who may not know actually so Corinne basically organise society day you run Svelte society, France, and it was just like a beginning to end. I wasn't sure if like Svelte was ready for like a non English conference. But you just did it. And then you got so many submissions. Even got rich to say some French.Karine  1:31  A very memorable moment. That's been recorded. Oh, right.Kevin  1:35  You can see that online. Right.Karine  1:37  Yeah. On the YouTube channel.Shawn  1:39  Yeah, I mean, I think there is a French community. I think Schneider Electric, they get back I was speaking in French. Then there was like the the newspaper like, was it les echos?Karine  1:49  Yes, Les Echos, Yes. And they do lots of infographics, papers. Some of them are powered with Svelte animation. I think there's also a radio france, which is the well the broadcaster of many different radios. And they they use Svelte in some part, and they have a very, I just tweeted recently, an article by their tech, tech lead, and they have a very interesting and modern stack, including Svelte.Antony  2:23  Wow. I mean, radio, France has clearly sort of got their inspiration from start radio.Kevin  2:30  Obviously, it's cool. Speaking of Svelte, what's new with the Svelte lately? Anyone know,Shawn  2:40  there's some versions.Kevin  2:42  Exciting.Antony  2:44  So we've we've definitely started publishing a newsletter. I don't know exactly who's involved in that. But somebody sort of started publishing announcements, because I think we mentioned on here that we never announced any new features, we just kind of rolled them out. And it's good to sort of get a bit of notice and traction around around the version. So there is no newsletter. I'm terrible, because I don't know where it lives or how to see it. But it's probably on the blog. Right. It's on the stock blog, which was abandoned for a long time, but but it's on there. It lives again.Shawn  3:11  So I suspect this is like a tear. Yeah, so Svelte dot dev slash blog. The thing about this newsletter is that there's no place to sign up. What what kind ofAntony  3:21  like, it's like a blog, news block. You can't You can't syndicate a writeShawn  3:28  it there's, I don't see an RSS Yeah, there'sKevin  3:30  no rss,Antony  3:32  unsubscribable.Shawn  3:33  If you want to contribute to Svelte you know what to do.Antony  3:37  Yeah, that would be a very good, very good first thing, actually, because this is stored as a bunch of markdown. So there's no reason this can't be syndicated pretty easily. Yeah, so so new, feature wise. I mean, I mean, everyone's everyone's sort of focused on Svelte kit right now. But in the background, there are some new features going into Svelte itself.Kevin  3:55  I think we've had a number of like smaller point releases, right? Antony  4:00  Yeah, Kevin  4:01  with some new features like props, rest, props, and custom web components is one of them.Antony  4:08  And it's just I think there's just some syntactic sugar around the promise, like the await syntax, just to keep your code clean a bit cleaner. I'm still not a fan. putting away in your template. It doesn't feel doesn't sit well with me. But for those who use it, I guess it's really kind of a terse way of just making sure your data is ready. And then they're pumping out to the page. So this is good. Yeah it's good that that is getting some love Kevin  4:32  some, some other stuff as well?Shawn  4:34  I should mention Karine has in the chat. You can speak Karine. I think you found the signup link.Karine  4:40  Yeah. It's it's Svelte that substack.com and there you have the sign up for the newsletter and Oh, that's a different clever link. It's okay. It's, you know, it'sKevin  4:53 it. It is the same but like we, I guess you kind of want the like an official signup thing because This is run by the guy that writes it, I think, okay, which is fine. I suppose.Shawn  5:04   that's good enough. Better than us maintaining a separate mailing list.Antony  5:09  Yeah. Okay. Well, that's, that's that's nice about it to be honest.Karine  5:13  So now Antony you can subscribe.Antony  5:16  Now that what's going on, we should be really useful.Shawn  5:19  I just very keen on email capture. I'm like the next conference that we do we need to have emails. Antony  5:24  Yeah, absolutely. Shawn  5:25  Activate people. All right. So I guess maybe the one surprise because I haven't seen this before. I would want surprise I was rollout plugin Svelte removed the CSS option, Antony  5:36  They didShawn  5:37  This is surprising Why?Antony  5:38  It's not a question I can answer. Again. I didn't work on that plugin. And I think now i don't i don't know. But yes, I...

Scott Tolinski of Syntax.fm fame joins us to talk about Svelte, React and podcasting. Oh, and he has a new course on Svelte animations! Have a listen!Check out his courses here: https://www.leveluptutorials.comPicks:- Scott: Q clearance - the hunt for QAnon (podcast)- Kevin: Brandon Sanderson - Stormlight Archive (books)- Shawn: Writing Excuses (podcast) and Acquired Podcast (podcast)- Antony: That Chapter (YouTube Channel)- Scott & Antony: JCS Psychology (YouTube Channel)Transcription:[00:00:00] KAK: Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. Today we have yet another guest. But before we introduce the guest, we're going to introduce ourselves. So I’m Kevin. I run a site called Svelte School, and I love Svelte, and I run this podcast as well. [00:00:19] SW: I’m Sean. I work at AWS, and I’ve been doing some work on the Svelte Society website recently. Got to give it some love. [00:00:26] AJ: Hi, I’m Antony. I’m a Svelte maintainer, mostly working on kit at the moment. And I’m also CTO of Beyonk, which is a booking system for tourism and leisure. [00:00:35] SW: And thanks for picking back up, hopefully. [00:00:38] AJ: They are. Well, yes. And it’s a tough one, but I think so.[00:00:43] KAK: All right. So our guest today is Scott Tolinski. He is a friend of the show, sponsor and lover of Svelte it seems like, because I just listened to you on the latest SyntaxFm where you're the co-host. And when someone asked what's the best and easiest JavaScript framework for beginners, both of you answers Svelte, which is I think it's an interesting change from before maybe where you may not necessarily have said that. And Scott is – So I’m going to try and do an intro, because I feel like I’ve heard it so much, but then also you can fill in the gaps. I like that description that you always say like you're a full stack developer from Denver, Colorado. That's a mouthful, but it accurately describes everything. You run Level Up Tutorials, which actually I think started as a YouTube channel with some tutorials on some kind of design software that I have it in my watch list, but I haven't seen it yet. It's a huge channel. I think you're like 300 something K subscribers. But now it's a paid platform where you have monthly video courses. And then you're also a Bboy, and I always love watching your videos of your breakdancing. Is there anything that is typically not mentioned in intros that you'd like to share?[00:01:55] ST: I don't know. I’ve been a developer for since 2011 professionally, but I’ve just been a lover of making websites for a very long time. I just like really find passion in this stuff. So whether or not that is like a part of my business platform or what I’m doing, like it was first and foremost like a hobby for me and the thing I kept going back to. So maybe that isn't often mentioned just like how much I truly love this stuff, and I think that's maybe something a little interesting or not. [00:02:27] KAK: Yeah. I mean I do see when you post updates about how you're changing the Level UP site, and you put some effort into the little details of the animations and stuff like that on the site and it really shows that you pay attention to the details. And it's mostly a one-man operation, right? Like you have some content creators, but it's mostly you.[00:02:45] ST: Yeah. And I’ve had three guest creators and we just hired on our first like full-time developer last month. We've had a part-time developer for the past like year or so, a good friend of mine. And then now we have two devs working on it, one who's part-time and one who's full-time. And so it's a growing operation and we're hoping to have a bunch more guest content creators on next year. We have a few people signed on to do some really neat courses for us on stuff that are gaps in my knowledge base. It's funny because like some people are a little surprised that I can produce like a 20 video tutorial series in a month every month for a year. But I should say that I’ve been doing it since 2012. So like for me I have the flow and everything so practiced and I have the formula down to how I like to do things and how I like to learn things and how I like to explore topics that like, “Hey, when we started Level Up Tutorials, it was just a way to try to give back to the Drupal community specifically on YouTube because there was like no good Drupal content.” I was cranking three videos every Monday and Wednesday. So I was getting like six to nine videos a week. And I just did that for a billion years until now, and then it's like I’ve had all this practice to be able to do it. So it's like, “All right.” Well, I feel like I’m probably even producing less content than I used to just because it's a little bit more dialed in. [00:04:15] KAK: And you have a lot of courses on your on your site. I remember I took one of your Gatsby courses way, way back. It was really nice when I first got into to React. It was great. But then you also have Svelte courses, right? [00:04:33] ST: Yeah. [00:04:33] KAK: You had two of them before, right? You had the Svelte for beginners and Sapper for beginners, right? [00:04:40] ST: We had a Svelte course, a Sapper course and then now animating Svelte, which was the latest one that came out in October. And I’ve done a lot of animating React courses. So for me this one was interesting to be able to apply a lot of the same like, “Here are our basic animations you need to know, but then try to do them in a completely different system.” And like some of the stuff – It's funny, because we can get into it more, but some of the stuff in Svelte was like too easy. It's like, “Okay. In React, to do a fly-in animation, we have to pick a library,” because there's like eight libraries to pick from. You got to pick a library then you got to write the in and out and you got to worry about the mounting and unmounting. And then in like Svelte it's just like, “Oh! Import fly. Attach that directive to –” I feel like a fraud for teaching that because it's so simple. But then like if anybody's coming from any of their platform, they're going to see how nice it is. And to me that's the reason why we talked about Svelte being probably the best platform for people to pick up, because it's so simple like that. You don't have to make a lot of choices in those regards. I mean what we made a like a modal. I think the modal – I don't know what video that is, but we made like a modal in one of the videos. And it is like a really nice looking, like almost like the native animation that's on Big Sur and macOS type of looking modal. And it took us no time at all. It’s like just pop on a couple of directives on a couple things and bingo-bango! It's just working. [00:06:11] AJ:

This week we get a glimpse into the future of Svelte and SvelteKit! Rich joins us to talk about the new thing in town, SvelteKit, as well as what the future of web development could look like.Some topics that we discuss:- Release date- SvelteKit vs Sapper- Features- Adapters- Ideas about what is nextIf you missed the talk at Svelte Summit check it out here.Picks:- Robot Vacuum- OnePlus 8T- SavvyCal- Begin.comTranscription:[00:00:00] KA: Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Svelte radio. I'm your host, Kevin, I run Svelte school. And today we have a very special episode, we have the creator of a Svelte, Rich Harris. But before he gets to introduce himself, we'll kick it off with our other hosts.[00:00:19] S: Hey, I’m Sean, work at AWS on random stuff, including trying to get Svelte into AWS and that is an ongoing mission.[00:00:30] A: Hi, I'm Anthony, and I'm the CTO of Biank. And also Svelte maintainer.[00:00:35] RH: And I'm a graphics editor at the New York Times currently working on SvelteKit.[00:00:42] KA: Whoo, cool. The new shiny thing before we get started, how are you? How's everything with the election and all of this stuff? How's the workload? [00:00:50] RH: For me, thankfully, it's settling down. Last week was quite a busy week for everyone. Certainly in the graphics department at the times and probably in the organization as a whole. It's very difficult to avoid getting sucked into the madness. But you know, what is fun? There's no better place to witness history than from a newsroom, even if it is a virtual newsroom scattered around people's homes.[00:01:10] KA: Something I didn't didn't appreciate about your election coverage is that you're actually spinning up visualizations fairly quickly based on what counties or states are in focus at the time. Like, there's some parts of this that you could not have prepared beforehand, right?[00:01:26] RH: Yeah, there's some sleight of hand, you know, you prepare for a variety of different outcomes. But yeah, like, as soon as the results start coming in, the politics editors, and the graphics editors who are covering this, are bashing their heads together and trying to figure out what is the story. And then that kind of filters down to the people making the charts and maps. And we all come together, we analyze data, and we try and figure out what just happened. There is some infrastructure that's already built out, because you kind of know that people are gonna want to know which parts of the country swaying in one direction. But yes, a lot of it is kind of rapid response, data visualization.[00:02:05] KA: So you've got Lego blocks for building visualizations that will tell you population, this area voted this way or whatever, you've got that sort of stuff?[00:02:14] RH: Yeah, like you know that you're going to need a lot of demographic information about counties, like we know that the results are going to be coming in per county or in New England it’s per township, because they like to do things differently. And you just have all of the data that you might possibly need in a massive spreadsheet at a time. And then you can also plug it in to make something relevant.[00:02:37] KA: Alright, so we're not here for the election. We're here for something that's more exciting. [00:02:48] RH: That’s certainly, perspective[00:02:51] KA: For sure. So we're going to talk about SvelteKit today. So before we dive in to the questions, what is SvelteKit?[00:02:59] RH: SvelteKit is, in one way it's a successor to Sapper. And you could even think of it as Sapper 1.0, if you like. But in another larger sense, it's our kind of vision for the way that you should build Svelte apps in future. It’s something that we've been kind of talking about in a peripheral sense for a long time, we've been talking about how we can evolve Sapper to take advantage of some of the recent trends in front end development, particularly the rise of serverless. And more recently, the rise of unbundled workflows, which I'm sure we'll get into later. But it all sort of came to a head recently, you know, the pace of development on Sapper had hit a bit of a low, at least until Ben McCann really picked up the baton and started churning through issues. And people were getting a little bit frustrated, I think with the progress. And Anthony is one of those people because he uses Sapper very heavily in his job. At a certain point, we're like, “What if we just started from scratch?” Like the big rewrite, as opposed to trying to get all of these ideas into what was honestly kind of a watery codebase. I sort of proposed this very hesitantly in the discord thinking everyone was going to yell at me. And instead everyone was like, “Oh, yeah, let's do that.” And so that was sort of the germ of the idea. And then over the last, I guess, month or so, the idea turned into a prototype, and the prototype turned into a project with a name. And I was, I guess, reckless enough to announce it at Svelte summit as a thing that I was working on. And then at that point, it was like a de facto, this is what we're doing. Now. This is, this is it. So now the whole team is full steam ahead. We've got some new contributors as well, people who haven't previously been on the Svelte core team are helping us out. Andreas [inaudible] is one of them and Dominic who created Sleet helping out in the repo and it's actually looking good.[00:05:00] A: I think that probably the alternate version of that story is that Rich claimed to going on holiday, he went on holiday, he came back a week later and SvelteKit appeared. And then we spent ever since bikeshedding the name.[00:05:15] RH: I promise I didn't do it on holiday. I would have been very sad, I had a really nice break. And if I'd spent it in front of a laptop, I'd have  been very unhappy with myself in trouble. It's just the way these things right, the first 80% of a project is you can build it pretty rapidly. But then once you start to get into the details, that takes the remaining 400% of the time. And that's the situation that we're in at the moment.[00:05:15] A: The modified Pareto principle.[00:05:41] KA: Obviously, I'm not so steeped in the history of Svelte as much as some other people here. But I feel like this is something that happens every now and then in rich land. This idea that a big rewrite would update just a lot of the core assumptions and change the design to something that is much more enjoyable. Is there like lessons that you learn from you know, having done things like these, for example, going from [inaudible] to Svelte? And then from pre Svelte 3 to Svelte 3? I thought that these are pretty major bumps. Right?[00:06:09] RH: Yeah, I mean, I guess the main lesson that I've learned is probably that...

This week we talk about all the awesome talks that we saw at Svelte Summit. It was a bit long, but wow, was it good! Great Event. And we hope you all come to the next one in the first half of 2021!If you missed it, you can tune-in on the Svelte Society YouTube channel. To get news about the next event, sign up to the newsletter.Show Notes: SVELTE SUMMIT - Check out the talks and the website!Transcription:[00:00:00] KA: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. I’m your host, Kevin. And I ran a site called Svelte School and I’m joined by my two co-host, Antony and Shawn.[00:00:11] AJ: I’m Antony, the CTO of Beyonk. I’m a Svelte maintainer. And actually, I can say this now, I’m currently working on Sveltekit, which is quite fun,[00:00:18] SW: Oh, that’s hot. We should talk about that. I’m Shawn. I work at AWS and temporal. I don’t really kind of work on anything, but I do use other GS a lot, so that’s fun.[00:00:30] KA: All right. Last weekend -- it was last weekend, right?[00:00:35] SW: October 18th, I had the date memorized because I was so promoting it so much.[00:00:41] KA: I have no idea. Time is not my --[00:00:45] SW: Ground circle.[00:00:46] AJ: Yeah, I know. Not mine.[00:00:47] KA: All right. What did you guys think? Was it good.?[00:00:50] SW: Yeah. I think we went very well. I wasn’t sure if I was going to stick through the whole event, but it was going to be a long one and it was very late at night and on a weekend. But then, I just found the conversation really entertaining, the talks are cool and I stuck around for the entire thing.[00:01:06] KA: Well, that’s awesome, seven hours.[00:01:08] AJ: Yeah. I mean, I also did stick around for the whole thing.[00:01:12] SW: You cycled like a billion miles.[00:01:15] AJ: Actually, it’s quite a short cycle, because I was trying to moderate the chat from my phone while sitting on the bike, watching the conference. But also, I had like the cycle trainer up and everything else. Yeah, it was interesting, trying to do too many things at one space. I think I did like 20, 25k or something, which is not impressive but it’s worth doing. It was a good feeling as well. What I found was it’s surprisingly easy to concentrate when you’re a cycle trainer watching a conference. I think that I’d like to just go to more events like that, but while cycling because it works really well.[00:01:54] KA: I like working out as well while like watching stuff because it’s nice[00:01:58] AJ: But it’s quite hard, right? I’ve tried running and watching The Simpsons and I can’t do that. It’s just impossible, but this was much easier for some reason.[00:02:06] KA: Cycling is probably a bit easier, kind of in my mind at least feels like it would be easier.[00:02:12] AJ: Yeah. Well, you’re sitting down for one thing, but also, I guess you can vary the cadence quite easily. Like you can just change gear and make it easier or harder if you want to focus on a specific bed. It’s not like you’re having to maintain it constant all the time. Yeah, it works really well, works really well, so I’ll try to do that in the future actually. Then yeah, watching the rest on the TV downstairs, and it was me watching it and enjoying it, and my wife having enforced upon her. That’s, you know, hey.[00:02:41] KA: Which talks did you guys like the most? I think my favorite was like The Web à la Mode one, for sure.[00:02:47] AJ: Oh, yeah.[00:02:47] KA: Like in a creative way, I really like that one. The flying head and --[00:02:52] AJ: Yeah. I think that’s an easy one.[00:02:55] SW: I mean, he actually I think expanded. I personally do a lot of pre-recorded classroom speaking. He’s a first-time speaker and he expanded my idea of what a pre-recorded talking do. It’s like he built that thing, and then played music. Then the rest of the talk was, had that back in music. Now, it’s just genius.[00:03:17] AJ: Yeah. It’s nice to have a pay setter like music wise. I don’t know if you have heard of the comedian, Mitch Hedberg. He’s death now, but he always had this like weird beat going onto like his entire set. It elevates it. It adds like a massive dimension to it, and I’m not really sure why. I can’t remember what the beat is. It’s like — I think it’s somebody playing an instrument called Chuck. When his jokes changed and when his jokes starts to fail, or whatever, which he do a lot because he’s kind of an abstract comedian. He will just say, “Can you just sort of ramp it up a bit, Chuck” and Chuck sort of increase this tempo a bit and change up the way it sounds.” [00:03:56] KA: That’s such a good idea.[00:03:57] AJ: It’s really good. It’s really good that way to do it, actually. So if you’ve got sort of — [inaudible 00:04:00] it’s ridiculous. But if you got somebody who can play an instrument, get him along to your talk, and they can play in the background.[00:04:09] KA: Pro tip.[00:04:09] AJ: Yeah.[00:04:10] SW: Just to mention some of the others. I realized that there’s a lot of curiosity around talks, transitions and animations. I think we have three talks. One, Nicolo Davis on crossfade, and then we had Mark Volkmann on animations and then we had Li Hau on transitions. I thought that was — I always wondered that and it’s kind of wishful for me to actually have talks like things that really explored how they work and what we can do with them.[00:04:40] AJ: Yeah. so another reason that I mentioned his talk is because, it’s really, really difficult to talk on something that’s kind of intricate and complex. It’s very to do talks — not very easy, but it’s easy to do talks on sort of more high-level subject. Building that, building this, building that. But when you try to go into complex detail about an internal of something and do a talk on it, and present, and maybe even life circumstances, which is just next level. But it’s really, really difficult and I think prepping talks, I found that I tend to shy away a bit for more complex subject, because I don’t feel like we’re understanding as good as it should be to get a talk, right? So yeah, I think extra props as people did that kind of talk as well.I think it’s also worth mentioning, Luke’s talk for me, because I think — especially since I kind of had prior knowledge of what Sveltekit was doing. It was really interesting to see how you could deploy an application to Cloudflare Work because that’s — it’s something that’s really pushing the boundaries of serverless and what we’...

We talk about the upcoming Svelte happening of the year: Svelte Summit. On October 18th at 2PM GMT you'll be able to tune-in on the Svelte Society YouTube channel. We have 18 talks lined up. Don't miss it! If you want to get a reminder, sign up to the newsletter.Show Notes: SVELTE SUMMITTranscription:[00:00:00] KA: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. We have a special episode today about the upcoming event, Svelte Summit. But before we begin, we are going to introduce ourselves. So I’m Kevin. I run Svelte School. Then we have Shawn and Antony. [00:00:19] SW: I’m Shawn. I work at AWS and I recently rewrote my blog in Elder.js. It’s fully done now. [00:00:27] A: Hi. I’m Antony. I’m the CTO of Beyonk and I’m also a Svelte maintainer. [00:00:33] KA: All right, cool. Svelte Summit, are you guys excited?[00:00:37] AJ: A part. [00:00:37] SW: Very. I’m very excited. [00:00:39] KA: Awesome. [00:00:40] SW: Awesome. [00:00:40] KA: I am as well. We have so many great talks lined up. And compared to the Svelte Society data we had a couple months ago or half a year ago, it was a long time ago. We only got like 12 proposals. But this time we got around 40, so we’re growing. That’s great. I guess we can talk a bit about some of the talks. Let's start with the –[00:01:06] SW: Yeah. I guess I also wanted to like reflect a little bit on like the journey that we took to get here. Like all three of us, we started Svelte meet ups in the cities that we lived in a year ago. Actually, the first time I came about the name Svelte Society was like at the very first meet up in New York where just kind of like introducing it to people. Then I said like in one year we could have like a – It was like a very tentative question mark, but I knew that the name was right. [00:01:37] KA: It does work well, yeah. [00:01:40] SW: So maybe we could’ve bought the domain back then, but I think it all worked out. I didn’t have confidence or faith that I could do it, so definitely like a lot of credit goes to Kev for being the lead organizer for all this. This is amazing that you actually got all these people together and organized all this, so massive kudos to Kev. [00:02:00] AJ: Absolutely, yeah. [00:02:01] KA: Thanks. Thank you. It is actually quite a lot of work when you think about it, or rather it's like comes and goes, like the workload. So at times, you have a lot to do and then – For example, this week I’m going to have a lot to do because I have to edit all the talks together into one big talk, and you have to like do the website and all of the stuff. But for next time, we’re probably just going to reuse the website or a variation of it at least. I think it works well. It looks good. Wolfer did a great job on the design as well. [00:02:38] SW: Yeah, and community conferences are definitely driven by volunteers, and I imagine every framework, every programming language runs into this when they’re just getting off the ground. And it takes people like you, people like us, to just volunteer and not wait for some other person to do it. [00:02:56] KA: Yeah. It’s very easy to just wait for something to happen. But if everyone does that, it’s never going to happen, right? So it’s a lot of fun as well. [00:03:07] SW: That's one thing I noticed, like being involved in the community opens a lot of doors. You get to meet a lot of people, talk to a lot of people that you probably otherwise wouldn't have talked to, so that’s also fun. [00:03:18] KA: Yeah. [00:03:19] AJ: I also think it’s quite –[00:03:20] KA: Even the guests that we’ve had on even on this podcast has been pretty good actually. [00:03:25] AJ: Yeah. No, I think it’s quite new. It’s something to organize and meet up in your town kind of thing. It was difficult for me because it’s not something I’ve really done or thought I could do before. But I think that taking that to a sort of global scale is a lot more difficult, and it’s something that I probably still don’t think I could do. So, yeah, like Shawn says, well done, Kev. I think that’s something that you really sort of pushed the bar there. [00:03:48] KA: I think it’s funny because in some ways I think it’s easier, and then others it’s harder for some reason. [00:03:53] AJ: Yeah. It’s the others. [00:03:55] SW: I was about to say that because when I was – I think we organized like maybe five or six Svelte Society in New York before everything shut down, and I was responsible for booking the venue, like getting everyone in the door. Sometimes, the instructions to get in the building were bad, and then people would be calling me and emailing me. Then at the same time, like being emcee or I try to sort of form out that job but sometimes I’ll be the fall back. Then also speaking because it's hard to find speakers, and then also being responsible for AV like recording it and putting online because I think the majority of the talk’s audience is always going to be online. So they always want to promote the YouTube and all that stuff like that. In one sense, like doing it online gets rid of all the physical stuff, so you can just post it to YouTube. [00:04:40] KA: Yeah, exactly. So this time around, we also have sponsors. That’s a pretty big milestone I suppose. [00:04:47] SW: Yes. [00:04:48] KA: Thank you, Daddy Bezos and – All right, let’s talk about the speakers or rather their talks. I was thinking we could start with Svelte at the Edge, powering Svelte apps with Cloudflare Workers. Have you guys worked with Workers?[00:05:07] AJ: I haven't. I haven't, no.[00:05:09] KA: I think they’re sort of like – I guess you could call them just serverless functions with a twist because they’re like web workers. [00:05:19] AJ: Yeah, it seems like title functions that sort of a lot like serverless are like on other platforms but more like kid of – I guess they have a lot less power than a real serverless function, but it makes them ideal for just sort shipping out to edge nodes everywhere. [00:05:35] KA: I think this talk is by Luke Edwards and I think he’s going to talk about server-side rendering Svelte on the Edge, which is a pretty cool idea. I'm super excited to see it, yeah. [00:05:49] AJ: I'm always interested in what you can pump into a tiny li...

Mark Volkmann has written a great book on Svelte and Sapper. We sit down with him to talk about his background, what's in the book and some more philosophical developer stuff! Keep your out on Svelte Society twitter account. We'll be giving away two copies of the book!Sponsors:Level Up Tutorials brings you cutting-edge, focused & high quality video tutorials for web developers and designers. Support the show and check out the Svelte For Beginners as well as Sapper for Beginners courses.You? Svelte Radio is currently looking for another sponsor! Send me a message at sponsor@svelte.school.Show notes:Svelte and Sapper in Action book (get 35% off by using code podsvelradio20)Mark's blog and second blog/siteTranscription:[00:00:00] KAK: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another Svelte Radio Podcast. Today, we have another guest with us. Before we get to that, let’s do introductions. I’m Kevin. I run Svelte School and I’m heavily involved in the Svelte Society community stuff for Svelte. Yeah, that's me.[00:00:18] SW: I’m Shawn I work at AWS on developer experience. Most recently, I’ve also been working on finally shipping my own site in Elderjs, which is the new Svelte static site generator. It's very fast, because it basically ships almost nothing. Yeah, I really like it.[00:00:38] AJ: Hi. I’m Antony. I’m a CTO at Beyonk, which is a platform for experienced booking. I’m also a Svelte core maintainer. I’m involve with Svelte Radio, Svelte green tea, apparently a lot of stuff that I don't know how I got involved in, but there you go. Yeah, thanks.[00:00:55] KAK: All right. The guest for today is Mark. Mark Volkmann, is that how you say it?[00:01:01] MV: That's correct.[00:01:02] KAK: Yeah. What's your deal?[00:01:05] MV: Yeah. I’m a software consultant in the St. Louis area in Missouri. I work at object computing. We provide training and consulting and all kinds of software development. These days I mostly focus on web development, but I really work in the full stack.[00:01:22] KAK: Awesome. You've written a book on Svelte, right? It's probably why you’re here.[00:01:26] MV: That’s right. Exactly.[00:01:29] KAK: How was that experience?[00:01:31] MV: It was quite challenging. I have a long history of writing. I write a lot of articles for my company that get published on our website and sent out to subscribers to those articles. I’ve been speaking at conferences and user groups for a long time and teaching classes. I had a long history of writing. This is the first time my writing has been examined this closely by a large number of reviewers. It was quite an experience trying to deal with all the feedback that I was getting.[00:02:01] KAK: Nice. Why Svelte?[00:02:03] MV: For me, it's all about developer experience. There's so many reasons to choose Svelte, but I really focus heavily on at least my own productivity. I find that I’m just way more productive in Svelte. A lot of that has to do with the features that are built in that make things so simple and result in you writing less code to get things done. For me, some of the top features are the way that you deal with state inside a component and the way that you share state across component using stores. Both of those are just so much simpler than what I see in any of the other web frameworks.[00:02:41] AJ: Yeah. I like this part that actually – I liked it so much that I took a screenshot of it. In chapter five, you have this table on component communication options and you've got props, slots, events, context, module context and stores and I think that's a really good recap of how these things go. I don't know. I never had it put so clearly to me. but I do have a special preference for stores. They were the first Svelte talk that I did at the New York City Svelte Society meetup.[00:03:08] MV: Right. When you compare it to what you have in other frameworks, like Redux and React, or Vuex and Vue, or NGRX and Angular, it's just a night and day difference in the complexity level.[00:03:19] KAK: Yeah. Your book is pretty comprehensive. I’ve skimmed through it, read parts of it. It seems like the tutorial, but on steroids. It covers pretty much everything. It feels like a good next step after doing the tutorial.[00:03:37] MV: Yeah, I think that's right. I would recommend that people go through the tutorial, because that's excellent. I did really aim to show almost every feature of Svelte and Sapper and have a simple code example of everything. Then show it in a wider context in a sample app that we build throughout the book.I think, even for myself it will be a reference going forward to look up how to do various things. That's really the style of my writing on other topics is to be a reference that I can go back to when I forget how to do something, which is quite often because as developers, we have so many things to remember that we just can't – we have to have a resource to look things up from time to time.[00:04:18] SW: Yeah. Absolutely. I noticed when I was – I was actually reading the book from when it was in more early stages, so there were obviously chunks missing, the stuff I was reading it online. I noticed that there were URLs and things like that that were probably due to go out of date pretty quickly, I just wondered as a person writing a book for something that is quite fast-moving technologically, how do you keep track of what's changed and what you need to update and what hasn't?[00:04:41] MV: Yeah. That's a tough challenge when it comes to URLs. The editor from the publisher encouraged me to not include very many of those things. I push back on that. I understand things go out of date. I would rather have good material out initially that will go out of date than just skip it all together. My tendency was to include as much as possible, even if there was a danger of it going out of date.An example of this is that in the chapter where I talk about different ways that you can deploy a Svelte app and I get into some details about services like Netlify, so I was listing a lot of details about the plans, including the prices. They didn't want me to inclu...