Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Strategist Kevin Goetz

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Academy Award-nominated writer, actor, director, and producer Nia Vardalos. From her one-woman show in a tiny Los Angeles theater to creating one of the highest-grossing independent movies of all time, Nia's path shows what happens when you refuse to give up on your story.The Topline She Carried for 24 Years (01:36) Kevin reveals that Nia has carried the original test screening results from My Big Fat Greek Wedding in her wallet for over 24 years. Kevin shares why the film isn’t allowed to be referenced at his company, not because it was bad, but because it was such an unprecedented outlier that had no business doing what it did, except that it was "so damn good."Second City Training and Seizing the Moment (04:40) Nia traces her journey from Shakespearean training at Ryerson to discovering improv.From Rejection to the Stage (19:15) When Nia couldn't get her screenplay read, she rented a small theater and performed her story for audiences who kept coming back. She shares how she placed a $500 ad in the Los Angeles Times that caught Rita Wilson's attention.Rita Wilson, Tom Hanks, and Unwavering Loyalty (26:51) When Rita Wilson saw the show, her first words were "I love you." When she said, "this should be a movie," Nia instantly handed her the screenplay so fast that “her hair flew back." The result: $241.4 million domestic, $368.7 million worldwide.14 Hours Notice to Motherhood (35:53) After years of fertility treatments, Nia received just 14 hours notice to adopt a daughter from foster care. She talks about the trials, and the joys of motherhood and adoption.Academy Award Nomination (39:35) On the morning of her Best Original Screenplay nomination, Nia was driving through rain to a fertility clinic when her best friend called first with the news.Returning to Theater (48:38) Nia returned to her theatrical roots with Tiny Beautiful Things, adapted from Cheryl Strayed's book and directed by Hamilton's Thomas Kail. The play became a New York Times Critics' Pick and was licensed in 250+ productions worldwide. She recently performed it in Greek in Athens at a 1,500-seat theater.Nia Vardalos proves that Hollywood's greatest success stories don't always follow the expected path. Sometimes they start with a $300 theater rental and an unshakeable belief in your own voice. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Nia VardalosProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Nia Vardalos:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nia_VardalosIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889522/Instagram: For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this engaging episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews his business associate, Bob Levin, about his remarkable journey from Sears catalog copywriter to President of Worldwide Marketing at Disney, Sony Pictures, and MGM, before joining Kevin at Screen Engine in the role of President and COO. Listen in as these two industry veterans share marketing insights and discuss their upcoming book, How to Score in Hollywood (Simon & Schuster, November 11th), which reveals the hidden formula behind a movie’s profitability — showing how audience understanding drives smarter decisions from greenlight to release.Disney's Renaissance Era (09:00) Bob recounts joining Disney just as Eisner and Katzenberg were revitalizing the studio, leading marketing during 17 consecutive hits, including Down and Out in Beverly Hills, The Lion King, and Pretty Woman.Marketing Philosophy (15:51) "Good marketing is both instinct and data," Bob explains, describing his pioneering approach of creating targeted messaging for different audience segments at Disney's animation division.Pretty Woman & Marketing Triumphs (19:33) Bob reveals how he helped to transform Pretty Woman from a potentially dark R-rated film into a celebration of female empowerment, even suggesting the iconic title to replace the original "3000".The Screen Engine Years (34:40) After leading marketing at three major studios, Bob joined Screen Engine, helping to build their research business, which started in Kevin's living room, into an industry powerhouse that expanded beyond film into other industries.How to Score in Hollywood (42:48) Bob discusses their upcoming book, which examines how movies get greenlit, applying the principle that "every movie if made and marketed for the right price should make money.”Understanding Audience Response (47:42) Levy notes that audiences aren't "wrong" when they dislike something; they're simply reacting honestly. Bob learned that viewers fundamentally seek characters with whom they can identify.The Attention Economy (48:54) Rather than thinking in terms of being in "the movie business," Levin suggests viewing entertainment as part of "the attention economy" where respecting the audience and telling great stories remains paramount.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Bob LevinProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Bob Levin:Simon and Schuster:https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Bob-Levin/240343657LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-levin-843797125/IMDB: For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes film industry analyst Stephen Follows for a discussion about film profitability and its connection to data. Stephen's digital book Greenlight Signals analyzes over 10,000 films and 4 million audience responses using secondary data (existing reviews, ratings, and comments from across the internet) to discover what makes a film successful. Together, Kevin and Stephen explore the same mission from different angles: ensuring filmmakers can make money while making the movies they're passionate about.From Film School to Data Research (2:32) Stephen shares his path from producing micro-budget features to becoming an entertainment data analyst, driven by his love of cinema and his passion for solving problems through logic and research.The Numbers Don’t Lie (9:59) Stephen recounts the eye-opening experience of helping a producer friend with a business plan, only to discover that every similar film had lost money.Why Experience Doesn't Equal Success (12:47) Stephen reveals his surprising research finding: there's little to no correlation between a producer's experience and their film's profitability, showing how passion can interfere with business sense.Two Books, One Goal (22:01) Kevin and Stephen discuss their approaches to data: Kevin's How to Score in Hollywood focuses on pre-greenlight capability testing using audience data, while Stephen's Greenlight Signals uses secondary data to identify patterns across genres. Both emphasize that data guides decisions rather than dictating them.Horror Films: Control and Atmosphere (33:50) Stephen and Kevin discuss what makes horror movies work, from declaring your genre early to shot-length and how controlling what audiences see and when they see it is essential to creating fear.Every Movie Should Make Money (45:50) Kevin and Stephen discuss Kevin's theory that every film, if made and marketed for the right price, should be profitable.Universal Rules Across All Genres (47:49) Stephen and Kevin identify critical commonalities of successful films: emotional authenticity, clear character wants, visible stakes, avoiding confusion, respecting established rules, and maintaining consistent tone throughout.This episode offers invaluable insights for anyone interested in the intersection of art and commerce in Hollywood.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Stephen FollowsProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Stephen Follows:Website: https://stephenfollows.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stephenfollows/IMDB: https://www.imFor more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz explores the intersection of social media and film marketing with Troy and Mark Paul, the son and father duo behind SGG Media. Their innovative agency represents over 2,300 sports micro-influencers with a combined reach of 88 million followers, helping major studios navigate a sea change in content marketing. Once reliant on TV, radio, and outdoor advertising, studios and streamers now lean heavily into social media to connect with audiences, particularly the elusive 18-35 year old male demographic. SGG's network of passionate superfans creates authentic engagement in ways traditional advertising simply cannot.What Makes Micro-Influencers Different (03:10) Troy explains that SGG represents everyday superfans, not celebrities. These creators have built loyal, engaged communities around their passion for sports.The Origin Story: From NYU to Entrepreneurship (18:02) Troy shares how he identified an untapped opportunity during COVID-19: sports fans creating content with millions of impressions but no monetization strategy. His high school friend Joe Hayes, who had built a 150,000-follower account, became employee number one.A Father's Investment and Guidance (12:38) Mark discusses putting his money where his belief was, investing $1 million of the company's total $3 million raised capital, and how he and Troy have deferred compensation for two consecutive years to reinvest in growth.The Pizza Entrepreneur at Age 11 (25:55) Mark shares the story of Troy's first business venture: hiring runners to buy pizzas and reselling slices to lazy classmates.Authenticity Over Celebrity (36:39) Troy contrasts traditional influencer marketing with SGG's approach: their creators have smaller but deeply loyal audiences, creating authentic engagement rather than paid celebrity endorsements that feel like "cash grabs."Universal's Breakthrough Campaign (39:35) Troy details how Universal brilliantly marketed the Jordan Peele film Him by timing the trailer drop with the NFL Draft and having 400+ NFL accounts create organic debate and engagement.Amplification: A New Marketing Strategy (42:32) Troy reveals SGG's most powerful tool: having hundreds of micro-influencers repost studio content simultaneously, building the studio's own social presence while reaching targeted audiences.Troy and Mark demonstrate how understanding shifting media consumption, building authentic creator relationships, and targeting niche audiences can cut through today's marketing noise to reach a “holy grail” demographic.Host: Kevin GoetzGuests: Troy Paul, Mark PaulProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Troy and Mark Paul:SGG Media: https://sggmedia.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troy-paul-26a06198Instagram: For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with two-time Academy Award-nominated producer Stacey Sher, the creative force behind some of Hollywood's most unconventional and influential films. From executive producing Pulp Fiction to producing Django Unchained, Out of Sight, Erin Brockovich, Get Shorty, Reality Bites, Man on the Moon, and The Hateful Eight, Stacey has built a career through her collaborations with visionary directors like Quentin Tarantino, Steven Soderbergh, and Danny DeVito. Her work demonstrates exceptional taste and the rare ability to bridge indie passion projects with mainstream success.Lessons from a Family Crisis (09:12) Stacey opens up about her personal life during her early career, how it informed her storytelling choices, and the impact it had on her perspective of Hollywood hierarchy and loyalty.Finding Great Material Through Unconventional Methods (16:03) Stacey reveals her mentor Lynda Obst's genius strategy of scouring "Filming in the Future" columns to identify scripts with great cast attachments, which led her to discover Reservoir Dogs and meet Quentin Tarantino.Warren Beatty's Career-Defining Question (27:44) At age 26, Warren Beatty asked Stacey what kind of movies she wanted to make, leading to his profound advice: "Do you want to have various children or marry various men? Because that's the same commitment you need to have to the movies that you make."The Birth of Jersey Films and Creative Freedom (28:15) How Stacey became a founding partner with Danny DeVito and Michael Shamberg, using their discretionary fund to make blind deals with emerging talent like Quentin Tarantino before he'd directed a single frame.Hollywood's Most Beloved Collaborators (35:11) Stacey shares insights on working with industry legends: Stephen Soderbergh, Julia Roberts, George Clooney, John Travolta's generosity, and Hillary Swank's determination to use her Oscar win to get Freedom Writers made.Django Unchained and Controversial Testing (41:03) Stacey shares the remarkable story of how Django Unchained tested similarly across demographic groups, including a screening in the Deep South.Stacey demonstrates how authentic relationships, unwavering taste, and commitment to meaningful stories can create a lasting impact on cinema and culture.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Stacey SherProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Stacey Sher:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_SherIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0792049/X: https://x.com/staceysher?lang=enFor more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Dick Cook, the former Chairman of Walt Disney Studios known as "the filmmaker's Chairman." From his humble start as a Disneyland train operator to running one of Hollywood's most successful studios, Dick shares how his Bakersfield roots and team-oriented leadership helped deliver some of Disney's most loved and profitable films, including Finding Nemo, The Lion King, National Treasure, and Pirates of the Caribbean.From Bakersfield to Disneyland (01:42) Dick shares how a 17-year-old with railroad experience landed a job operating Disney's steam train and monorail, setting the stage for an extraordinary career journey.Small-Town Values in Hollywood (06:10) Growing up in Oildale, California, Dick explains how losing his father at 12 and his mother's dedication to baseball helped shape his character.The Disruption Era (12:38) Dick discusses joining Disney during the home video and pay television revolution, when many thought it would kill the theatrical business.Learning from Legends (17:25) Dick shares insights from working with Disney visionaries like Jeffrey Katzenberg, Michael Eisner, and Card Walker.Convincing Eisner on Pirates (20:43) The inside story of how Dick had to sell Michael Eisner on Pirates of the Caribbean, an expensive pirate movie with an arthouse actor that became a massive franchise.The Team Philosophy (32:33) Dick emphasizes how success came from building loyal teams and treating the movie business as "a game" - serious work that he genuinely loved doing with people he cared about.Green-Lighting Lessons (35:54) Dick walks through his decision-making process for approving films, from budget considerations to the ancillary market.Remembering The Alamo (37:37) A candid discussion about one of his biggest missteps, how killing the protagonist at the end of the second act doomed The Alamo, and why pre-green-light audience testing might have caught the flaw.Friday Night Phone Calls (40:44) Dick recalls the excitement of Splash's surprising opening weekend success, when hand-calculated box office numbers seemed too good to believe.Dick demonstrates how humility, small-town decency, and collaborative leadership can drive Hollywood success while maintaining his integrity.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with others. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Dick CookProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Dick Cook:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_CookIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1693424/bio/LinkedIn: For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Thunder Road Films founder Basil Iwanyk, the producer behind some of the most engaging films of the last two decades. From The Town and Sicario to the game-changing John Wick franchise, Basil's films have redefined modern action cinema while earning over $2 billion worldwide. He shares how his New Jersey roots, immigrant family values, and tireless work ethic shaped his approach to filmmaking.Jersey Roots and the Chip on His Shoulder (02:18) Basil reveals how growing up in Teaneck, New Jersey as a first-generation American gave him the work ethic that drives his career.Breaking Into Hollywood (06:33) Basil shares his unconventional path into the mailroom and promotion to Warner Bros executive.Warner Bros Years and Learning the Business (13:11) Basil discusses his six-year stint as a creative executive, working on films like Ocean's Eleven, Training Day, and the infamous Wild Wild West. He credits mentors like Courtenay Valenti and Lorenzo di Bonaventura for shaping his career.The Move to Producing (18:04) Basil shares his reasons for leaving Warner Brothers for the uncertainty of producing, first at Intermedia, where he learned international financing, then founding Thunder Road Films.Budgeting Disasters and Hard Lessons (23:10) Basil opens up about expensive mistakes like Seventh Son and Gods of Egypt, explaining how projects can spiral from modest concepts into bloated productions.The John Wick Phenomenon (33:36) The story of how a $15,000 script about a 75-year-old man became Keanu Reeves' career-defining franchise.Audience Testing The Town and Sicario (41:51) Kevin and Basil share how The Town found its stride by focusing on its core audience and owning its identity as a gangster tale, and how Sicario proved that a film’s most shocking moment can become an audience favorite.Moving Back Home and Thunder Road Books (48:37) Basil's decision to leave LA for Spring Lake, New Jersey, and open an independent bookstore as a way to give back to his community and inspire the next generation.Basil demonstrates how authentic storytelling, a relentless work ethic, and staying true to your vision can create lasting cinema.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Basil IwanykProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Basil Iwanyk:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_IwanykIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0412588/Thunder Road Films: For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes director Donald Petrie, the American Film Institute Fellow whose romantic comedies have grossed hundreds of millions worldwide. From launching Julia Roberts in Mystic Pizza to directing Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality and pairing Jack Lemmon with Walter Matthau in Grumpy Old Men, Donald has helmed some of Hollywood's most beloved films. Donald shares how he transformed from actor to director while maintaining the family tradition of integrity and craftsmanship.The Petrie Family Legacy (04:48) Donald reveals how his parents instilled respect for talent and collaboration, moving the family wherever his father was filming rather than using nannies. Discovering Julia Roberts (08:49) Three weeks before shooting Mystic Pizza, Donald found his perfect Daisy - a young actress who could be both brazen and vulnerable. He recalls the moment Julia Roberts auditioned and how he immediately knew she was the one.Emmy Nomination at 26 (13:13) Donald discusses how directing the famous "Venus Butterfly" episode of LA Law earned him an Emmy nomination and changed his career trajectory, leading to feature film offers.Grumpy Old Men Magic (18:16) Donald shares behind-the-scenes stories of directing Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau, including Matthau's direction philosophy and how the legendary duo grounded each other's performances.The Test Screening Revelation (25:23) A crucial lesson from Grumpy Old Men: Donald explains how the original opening killed the comedy and why he learned to signal to audiences that "it's okay to laugh."Miss Congeniality's Secret Formula (35:33) Donald reveals his pitch that transformed the pageant comedy.The Power of Audience Testing (42:01) Donald advocates for test screenings, explaining how audience feedback helped him completely restructure Grumpy Old Men's opening and Miss Congeniality's ending.Donald demonstrates how family values, collaborative spirit, and respect for the audience can create lasting entertainment. His insights into comedy directing, star discovery, and the creative process offer valuable lessons.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuests: Donald PetrieProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Donald Petrie:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_PetrieIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0677953/For more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:For more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

In this engaging discussion, focus group experts Terri Cavanaugh, Ari Virgil-Paige, and Aaron Feuer from Screen Engine share their insights on the art of audience testing in filmmaking. They reveal why honest audience feedback is crucial, highlighting the game's changing first question that sparks rich conversations. Each guest outlines their approach to moderation and the vital skills needed to navigate diverse responses. They also tackle the challenges of managing difficult respondents and advocate for prioritizing audience needs over personal agendas.

Send Kevin a Text MessageIn this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Michael Uslan, the originator and executive producer of the Batman and Batman-related movie universe, who turned his childhood passion for comic books into Hollywood gold. As an avid comic book collector and Batman superfan, Uslan is proof that following your passion pays off. He shares the story of his decade-long journey to bring a dark, serious Batman to the big screen after being horrified by the campy 1960s TV show.The Origin of Michael Uslan’s Passion (07:47)Uslan reveals his "secret origin" moment: watching the first episode of the 1966 Batman TV series and making a vow like young Bruce Wayne to someday show the world the true, dark Batman.Ten Years of Hollywood Rejection (09:53)From October 1979 to the first Batman movie's release, Uslan shares how he and partner Ben Melnicker faced rejection from every studio in Hollywood.Batman's Batman (15:12)When offered the chance to make a campy Batman movie, Uslan said no. His partner Ben called him "Batman's Batman," the character's defender who would stand by his initial vision.Peter Guber Says Yes (16:15)Uslan details how former 20th Century Fox president Peter Guber became the first executive excited about his dark Batman vision, leading to a nine-and-a-half-year journey to production.Financing the Dream (22:43)Uslan explains how he quit his job when his wife was nine months pregnant and raised money by selling project shares to his network, who invested in him, not Batman.Comic Book Academic Pioneer (25:16)Uslan recounts becoming the first person to teach an accredited college course on comic books at Indiana University as a Junior, leading to national publicity and a life-changing phone call from Stan Lee.Stan Lee's Mentorship and Marvel's Debt to Batman (39:54)Uslan shares Stan Lee's revelation that the Marvel Cinematic Universe wouldn't exist without his Batman, which proved superhero movies should focus on the person.Tim Burton and Michael Keaton (40:58)Uslan describes discovering Tim Burton through Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and Burton's genius decision to cast Michael Keaton, initially against Uslan's wishes.Uslan demonstrates persistence, vision, and the courage to say no when protecting something he believed in. His journey from comic book collector to Hollywood producer offers insights into passion-driven success, handling rejection, and the importance of having people who believe in you.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger. Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Michael UslanProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more info about Michael Uslan:Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MichFor more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com