
Your Undivided Attention
Join us every other Thursday to understand how new technologies are shaping the way we live, work, and think.
Your Undivided Attention is produced by Executive Editor Sasha Fegan and Senior Producer Julia Scott. Our Researcher/Producer is Joshua Lash. We are a member of the TED Audio Collective.
Latest episodes

Oct 20, 2022 • 40min
They Don’t Represent Us — with Larry Lessig
We often talk about the need to protect American democracy. But perhaps those of us in the United States don't currently live in a democracy.As research shows, there's pretty much no correlation between the percentage of the population that supports a policy and its likelihood of being enacted. The strongest determinant of whether a policy gets enacted is how much money is behind it.So, how might we not just protect, but better yet revive our democracy? How might we revive the relationship between the will of the people and the actions of our government?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're doing something special. As we near the election, and representation is on our minds, we're airing a talk by Harvard Law professor and Creative Commons co-founder Larry Lessig. It's a 2019 talk he gave at the Politics and Prose bookstore in Washington, DC about his book, They Don't Represent Us.The book title has two meanings: first, they — as in our elected representatives — don't represent us. And second, we — as in the people — don't represent ourselves. And this is where social media comes in: we don't represent ourselves because the more we use social media, the more we see extreme versions of the other side, and the more extreme, outraged, and polarized we ourselves become.Last note: Lessig's talk is highly visual. We edited it lightly for clarity, and jump in periodically to narrate things you can’t see. But if you prefer to watch his talk, you can find the link below in Recommended Media. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Video: They Don't Represent UsThe 2019 talk Larry Lessig gave at Politics and Prose in Washington, DC about his book of the same nameBook: They Don't Represent UsLarry Lessig’s 2019 book that elaborates the ways in which democratic representation is in peril, and proposes a number of solutions to revive our democracy -- from ranked-choice voting to non-partisan open primariesTesting Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens Princeton's Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page study measuring the correlation between the preferences of different groups and the decisions of our government RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESDigital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey Tanghttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/23-digital-democracy-is-within-reachHow Political Language Is Engineered with Drew Westen and Frank Luntzhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/53-how-political-language-is-engineeredYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

24 snips
Oct 6, 2022 • 60min
Stepping Into the Metaverse — with Dr. Courtney Cogburn and Prof. Jeremy Bailenson
The next frontier of the internet is the metaverse. That's why Mark Zuckerberg changed the name of his company from Facebook to Meta, and just sold $10 billion in corporate bonds to raise money for metaverse-related projects.How might we learn from our experience with social media, and anticipate the harms of the metaverse before they arise? What would it look like to design a humane metaverse — that respects our attention, improves our well-being, and strengthens our democracy?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we talk with two pioneers who are thinking critically about the development of the metaverse. Professor Jeremy Bailenson is the Founding director of Stanford’s Virtual Human Interaction Lab, where he studies how virtual experiences lead to changes in perceptions of self and others. Dr. Courtney Cogburn is an Associate Professor at Columbia's School of Social Work, where she examines associations between racism and stress-related disease. Jeremy and Courtney collaborated on 1000 Cut Journey, a virtual reality experience about systemic racism.CORRECTIONS: In the episode, Courtney says that the average US adult consumes 9 hours of media per day, but the actual number in 2022 is closer to 13 hours.Finally, Aza mentions the "pockets of 4.6 billion people" — implying that there are 4.6 billion smartphone users. The global number of social media users is 4.7 billion, and the number of smartphone users is actually 6.6 billion.RECOMMENDED MEDIA: Experience on Demand: What Virtual Reality Is, How It Works, and What It Can Dohttps://www.amazon.com/Experience-Demand-Virtual-Reality-Works/dp/0393253694Jeremy Bailenson's 2018 book exploring how virtual reality can be harnessed to improve our everyday livesExperiencing Racism in VRhttps://www.ted.com/talks/courtney_cogburn_experiencing_racism_in_vr_courtney_d_cogburn_phd_tedxrvaCourtney Cogburn's 2017 TEDx talk about how using virtual reality to help people experience the complexities of racismDo Artifacts Have Politics?https://faculty.cc.gatech.edu/~beki/cs4001/Winner.pdf Technology philosopher Langdon Winner’s seminal 1980 article, in which he writes, "by far the greatest latitude of choice exists the very first time a particular instrument, system, or technique is introduced."RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES: Do You Want To Become A Vampire? with LA Paulhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/39-do-you-want-to-become-a-vampirePardon the Interruptions with Gloria Markhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/7-pardon-the-interruptionsBonus - What Is Humane Technology?https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/bonus-what-is-humane-technologyYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

80 snips
Sep 22, 2022 • 40min
Fighting With Mirages of Each Other — with Adam Mastroianni
Have you ever lost a friend to misperception? Have you lost a friend or a family member to the idea that your views got so different, that it was time to end the relationship — perhaps by unfriending each other on Facebook?As it turns out, we often think our ideological differences are far greater than they actually are. Which means: we’re losing relationships and getting mired in polarization based on warped visions of each other. This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're talking with Adam Mastroianni, a postdoctoral research scholar at Columbia Business School who studies how we perceive and misperceive our social worlds. Together with Adam, we're going to explore how accurate — and inaccurate — our views of each other are. As you listen to our conversation, keep in mind that relationship you might have lost to misperception, and that you might be able to revive as a result of what you hear.CORRECTIONS: In the episode, Adam says in 1978, 85% of people said they'd vote for a Black president, but the actual percentage is 80.4%. Tristan says that Republicans estimate that more than a third of Democrats are LGBTQ, but the actual percentage is 32%. Finally, Tristan refers to Anil Seth's notion of cognitive impenetrability, but that term was actually coined by the Canadian cognitive scientist and philosopher Zenon W. Pylyshyn.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Widespread Misperceptions of Long-term Attitude Changehttps://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2107260119 Adam Mastroianni's research paper showing how stereotypes of the past lead people to misperceive attitude change, and how these misperceptions can lend legitimacy to policies that people may not actually preferExperimental Historyhttps://experimentalhistory.substack.com/ Adam's blog, where he shares original data and thinks through ideasAmericans experience a false social reality by underestimating popular climate policy support by nearly halfhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32412-yAcademic study showing that Americans are living in what researchers called a “false social reality” with respect to misperceptions about climate viewsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Mind the (Perception) Gap with Dan Vallonehttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/33-mind-the-perception-gapThe Courage to Connect. Guests: Ciaran O’Connor and John Wood, Jr.https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/30-the-courage-to-connectTranscending the Internet Hate Game with Dylan Marronhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/52-transcending-the-internet-hate-game

95 snips
Sep 8, 2022 • 24min
Spotlight — Addressing the TikTok Threat
Imagine it's the Cold War. Imagine that the Soviet Union puts itself in a position to influence the television programming of the entire Western world — more than a billion viewers. While this might sound like science fiction, it’s representative of the world we're living in, with TikTok being influenced by the Chinese Communist Party.TikTok, the flagship app of the Chinese company Bytedance, recently surpassed Google and Facebook as the most popular site on the internet in 2021, and is expected to reach more than 1.8 billion users by the end of 2022. The Chinese government doesn't control TikTok, but has influence over it. What are the implications of this influence, given that China is the main geopolitical rival of the United States?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we bring you a bonus episode about TikTok. Co-hosts Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin explore the nature of the TikTok threat, and how we might address it.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Pew Research Center's "Teens, Social Media and Technology 2022"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022/Pew's recent study on how TikTok has established itself as one of the top online platforms for U.S. teensAxios' "Washington turns up the heat on TikTok"https://www.axios.com/2022/07/07/congress-tiktok-china-privacy-data?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=emailArticle on recent Congressional responses to the threat of TikTokFelix Krause on TikTok's keystroke trackinghttps://twitter.com/KrauseFx/status/1560372509639311366A revelation that TikTok has code to observe keypad input and all tapsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESA Fresh Take on Tech in China with Rui Ma and Duncan Clarkhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/44-a-fresh-take-on-tech-in-chinaA Conversation with Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugenhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/42-a-conversation-with-facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugenFrom Russia with Likes (Part 1). Guest: Renée DiRestahttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/5-from-russia-with-likes-part-1From Russia with Likes (Part 2). Guest: Renée DiRestahttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/6-from-russia-with-likes-part-2 Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

56 snips
Aug 25, 2022 • 39min
Spotlight — How might a long-term stock market transform tech?
At Center for Humane Technology, we often talk about multipolar traps — which arise when individuals have an incentive to act in ways that are beneficial to them in the short term, but detrimental to the group in the long term. Think of social media companies that compete for our attention, so that when TikTok introduces an even-more addictive feature, Facebook and Twitter have to mimic it in order to keep up, sending us all on a race to the bottom of our brainstems.Intervening at the level of multipolar traps has extraordinary leverage. One such intervention is the Long Term Stock Exchange — a U.S. national securities exchange serving companies and investors who share a long-term vision. Instead of asking public companies to pollute less or be less addictive while holding them accountable to short-term shareholder value, the Long-Term Stock Exchange creates a new playing field, which incentivizes the creation of long-term stakeholder value.This week on Your Undivided Attention, we’re airing an episode of a podcast called ZigZag — a fellow member of the TED Audio Collective. In an exploration of how technology companies might transcend multipolar traps, we're sharing with you ZigZag’s conversation with Long Term Stock Exchange founder Eric Ries.CORRECTION: In the episode, we say that TikTok has outcompeted Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. In fact, TikTok has outcompeted Facebook, but not yet YouTube or Instagram — TikTok has 1 billion monthly users, while YouTube has 2.6 billion and Instagram has 2 billion. However, we can say that TikTok is on a path toward outcompeting YouTube and Instagram.RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESAn Alternative to Silicon Valley Unicorns with Mara Zepeda & Kate “Sassy” Sassoon: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/54-an-alternative-to-silicon-valley-unicornsA Problem Well-Stated Is Half-Solved with Daniel Schmachtenberger: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/a-problem-well-stated-is-half-solvedHere’s Our Plan And We Don’t Know with Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin, and Stephanie Lepp: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/46-heres-our-plan-and-we-dont-know

126 snips
Aug 4, 2022 • 58min
The Invisible Cyber-War
When you hear the word cyber-attack, what comes to mind? Someone hacking into your email, or stealing your Facebook password?As it turns out, our most critical infrastructure can be hacked. Our banks, water treatment facilities, and nuclear power plants can be deactivated and even controlled simply by finding bugs in the software used to operate them. Suddenly, cyber-attack takes on a different meaning.This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're talking with cyber-security expert Nicole Perlroth. Nicole spent a decade as the lead cyber-security reporter at The New York Times, and is now a member of the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity Advisory Committee. She recently published “This Is How They Tell Me The World Ends” — an in-depth exploration of the global cyber arms race.CORRECTIONS: In the episode, Nicole says that "the United States could have only afforded 2 to 3 more days of Colonial Pipeline being down before it ground the country — our economy — to a halt." The correct number is actually 3 to 5 days. She also refers to a 2015 study researching why some countries have significantly fewer successful cyber-attacks relative to cyber-attack attempts. That study was actually published in 2016.RECOMMENDED MEDIA This Is How They Tell Me The World EndsNicole Perlroth’s 2021 book investigating the global cyber-weapons arms raceReporter Page at the New York TimesNicole’s articles while the lead cyber-security reporter at the New York TimesThe Global Cyber-Vulnerability Report (in brief)Brief of a 2015 study by the Center for Digital International Government, Virginia Tech, and the University of Maryland that researched why some countries have significantly fewer successful cyber-attacks relative to cyber-attack attemptsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The Dark Side Of Decentralization with Audrey Kurth Cronin: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/49-the-dark-side-of-decentralizationIs World War III Already Here? Guest: Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/45-is-world-war-iii-already-hereA Problem Well-Stated Is Half-Solved with Daniel Schmachtenberger: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/a-problem-well-stated-is-half-solvedYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

41 snips
Jun 30, 2022 • 51min
An Alternative to Silicon Valley Unicorns
Why isn't Twitter doing more to get bots off their platform? Why isn’t Uber taking better care of its drivers? What if...they can't?Venture-capital backed companies like Twitter and Uber are held accountable to maximizing returns to investors. If and when they become public companies, they become accountable to maximizing returns to shareholders. They’ve promised Wall Street outsized returns — which means Twitter can't lose bots if it would significantly lower their user count and in turn lower advertising revenue, and Uber can’t treat their drivers like employees if it competes with profits.But what's the alternative? What might it look like to design an ownership and governance model that incentivizes a technology company to serve all of its stakeholders over the long term – and primarily, the stakeholders who create value?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're talking with two experts on creating the conditions for humane business, and in turn, for humane technology: Mara Zepeda and Kate “Sassy” Sassoon of Zebras Unite Co-Op. Zebras Unite is a member-owned co-operative that’s creating the capital, culture, and community to power a more just and inclusive economy. The Zebras Unite Coop serves a community of over 6,000 members, in about 30 chapters, over 6 continents. Mara is their Managing Director, and Kate is their Director of Cooperative Membership.Two corrections:The episode says that the failure rate of startups is 99%. The actual rate is closer to 90%.The episode says that in 2017, Twitter reported 350 million users on its platform. The actual number reported was 319 million users.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Zebras Fix What Unicorns BreakA seminal 2017 article by Zebras Unite co-founders, which kicked off the movement and distinguished between zebras and unicorns — per the table below.Meetup to the People Zebras Unite’s 2019 thought experiment of exiting Meetup to communityZebras Unite Crowdcast ChannelWhere you can find upcoming online events, as well as recordings of previous events.RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES A Renegade Solution to Extractive Economics with Kate Raworth: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/29-a-renegade-solution-to-extractive-economicsBonus — A Bigger Picture on Elon & Twitter: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/bigger-picture-elon-twitter Here’s Our Plan And We Don’t Know with Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin, and Stephanie Lepp: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/46-heres-our-plan-and-we-dont-knowYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

Jun 16, 2022 • 31min
Spotlight — Conversations With People Who Hate Me with Dylan Marron
This week on Your Undivided Attention, we’re doing something different: we’re airing an episode of another podcast that’s also part of the TED Audio Collective.Backing up for a moment: we recently aired an episode with Dylan Marron — creator and host of the podcast, Conversations With People Who Hate Me. On his show, Dylan calls up the people behind negative comments on the internet, and asks them: why did you write that?In our conversation with Dylan, we played a clip from episode 2 of Conversations With People Who Hate Me. In that episode, Dylan talks with a high school student named Josh, who’d sent him homophobic messages online. This week, we're airing that full episode — the full conversation between Dylan Marron and Josh.If you didn’t hear our episode with Dylan, do give it a listen. Then, enjoy this second episode of Conversations With People Who Hate Me.RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Transcending the Internet Hate Game with Dylan Marron: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/52-transcending-the-internet-hate-gameA Conversation with Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugen: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/42-a-conversation-with-facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugenThe Cure for Hate. Guest: Tony McAleer: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/11-the-cure-for-hateYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

17 snips
Jun 2, 2022 • 37min
How Political Language Is Engineered — with Drew Westen and Frank Luntz
Drew Westen, a political psychologist and messaging consultant, and Frank Luntz, a political communications expert, dive into the powerful role language plays in shaping political views. They discuss how political terms can manipulate public perception, creating divisiveness or unity. Anecdotes about contentious issues like healthcare reveal how relatable language can connect with voters. They emphasize the importance of empathy and clarity in communication to bridge political divides, advocating for language that fosters understanding across communities.

13 snips
May 19, 2022 • 46min
Transcending the Internet Hate Game — with Dylan Marron
Dylan Marron, creator of the podcast 'Conversations With People Who Hate Me,' tackles the toxicity of online interactions. He discusses the outrage culture that social media fosters and offers insights into how people can transform negativity into understanding. Marron emphasizes empathy, sharing personal experiences that illustrate the power of dialogue over division. He proposes engaging with critics as a means to foster connection, even in a landscape rife with misunderstandings and hostility.
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