Liberating Motherhood

“Hope is a muscle.” — Marlene Gerber Fried  Marlene Gerber Fried has been a leading reproductive justice and choice activist for decades. She’s seen and survived times of both hopelessness and triumph. She partners often with women of color, especially Loretta Ross, and her expansive vision of what a better world might look like feels like exactly what we need right now. It was such a gift to talk to her. It left me feeling more hopeful, and much more energized. I hope our conversation has the same effect on you.  In these episode, Marlene and I talk about a wide range of topics, including:  What a “good abortion” might look like in a healthier, safer world.  Reproductive justice and liberation as more expansive visions of reproductive choice.  Why we must sustain hope, and how we do that as everything burns around us.  How the Republican fascist overreach may destroy itself.  Why we must simultaneously take fascist threats seriously and avoid being daunted by them.  How we can parent children in a world that makes us terrified for their futures. What it takes to sustain a lifetime of successful activism.  About Marlene Gerber Fried Marlene Gerber Fried is a longtime reproductive rights activist and scholar. She was the founding president of the National Network of Abortion Funds and the Abortion Rights Fund of Western Massachusetts. Currently she is Professor Emerita at Hampshire College, where she taught for 37 years. She is Senior Faculty Advisor to Collective Power for Reproductive Justice, serves on the board of Women Help Women, and co-chairs the Our Bodies Ourselves expert panel on Abortion and Contraception with Pamela Merritt and Candace Bond-Theriault. She edited, From Abortion to Reproductive Freedom: Transforming A Movement, and co-authored with Jael Silliman, Elena Gutierrez and Loretta Ross, Undivided Rights: Women of Color Organize for Reproductive Justice. Her most recent book, Abortion and Reproductive Justice; An Essential Guide to Resistance, co-authored with Loretta Ross has just been released. You can buy Abortion and Reproductive Justice, the latest book by Marlene Fried and Loretta Ross, here.  When Roe fell, I interviewed a wide range of experts about how to survive in this new and frightening world. I talk about that piece in the podcast. You can find it here. You can also read my long-running Daily Kos abortion column, which painstakingly outlines the case for reproductive rights (why bans don’t stop abortion, why abortion is vital for health, how abortion laws affect an entire community, and so much more) here.  A quick programming note: I am experimenting with publishing a podcast every week for the month of October. I want to see if this pace feels sustainable for me, and if it helps the podcast grow. If you like the more-frequent posting schedule, you can vote by sharing the podcast, leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform, heart-reacting it on Substack, or sharing on social media. These actions help the podcast reach a wider audience and can make it easier for me to continue making this podcast. 

Discovering Soraya Chemaly’s work on women’s anger was a revelation for me. I was finally able to claim my own anger, rather than dismiss it as juvenile and embarrassing. We must be able to claim our anger, because we have plenty to be angry about.  I was so thrilled to get to interview Soraya, and I think you will love her if you’re not already familiar with her rich body of work.  Some of the many topics we discuss in this podcast episode include:  The power of women’s anger—and why patriarchy wants to keep that anger under control.  The credibility gap, and how it undermines women’s authority.  Why we associate genius and intelligence with boys, and foolishness with women.  Constructing women as annoying.  Soraya’s arguments in favor of pettiness.  What resilience means and doesn’t mean, and how the wider culture constructs our assessment of risk in parenting.  Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning feminist writer, speaker, and activist. Former Executive Director of The Representation Project and co-founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project, she is committed to expanding women's civic and political participation. Soraya is the author of Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, recognized as a Best Book of 2018 by the Washington Post, NPR, and others. Her work appears in TIME, The Guardian, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and Ms. Magazine, and she has been featured on NPR, PBS NewsHour, BBC, and MSNBC. She serves on the Women's Media Center board and has been recognized by the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication and awarded a Wikipedia Distinguished Service Award. Her next book, All We Want is Everything: How We Dismantle Male Supremacy, will be released November 11, 2025. Read Soraya’s Substack here, or visit her website here. 

Lawyers have always been on the frontlines of the fight for social justice. Nearly every enshrined right women have is thanks to a lawsuit. Fatima Goss Graves is an attorney and expert in using the law for good. I’ve followed her work since the days of Time’s Up, and literally squealed when her team reached out to me about appearing on the podcast.  Her wisdom is rich and deep, and I hope she’ll inspire some hope that we can still build a brighter tomorrow—even now. Hope is one of the most powerful tools we have.  You’ll have to excuse my hoarse voice; I’ve had a never-ending cold for weeks, and am partially convinced that this is just how I sound now.  In this interview, Fatima and I discuss a wide range of topics, including:  The history of The National Women’s Law Center, and how women can use the law as a tool of social justice.  Why we mustn’t comply in advance in the face of fascism.  The fact that we still have rights, even now, still have protection against discrimination, and the law can still work for activists, if we know how to use it.  Lawsuits as a tool for enforcing civil rights.  The fight for accessible and affordable childcare, and why it is so integral to women’s freedom.  Why women are leaving the workforce—and how we can bring them back.  How governments can enact truly family-friendly policies.  The policing of children in schools, the failure to accommodate children’s academic needs, and what a healthier school system might look like.  About Fatima Goss Graves Fatima Goss Graves is a nationally recognized leader in the fight for gender justice and an expert in law, policy, and culture change. She is President and CEO of the National Women’s Law Center, President of the National Women’s Law Center Action Fund, and a co-founder of the TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund. You can get help from the National Women’s Law Center here. Learn more about volunteering/partnering with NWLC here.  You can find more information about your employment rights under the Civil Rights Act here.  Watch Fatima go hard against DOGE here. 

Do I have men? Should you? Yes. No. Maybe. Misogynist men love to weaponize false claims of misandry against women. In fact, one of the clearest signs that a man is a misogynist is that he thinks misandry is real, common, and a threat.  Jeff and I have wanted to talk about bogus claims of misandry for a long time. Here’s the result.  Some of the many topics we talk about in this podcast include:  Why we need to stop saying “sexual coercion” or “obligatory sex” and start calling it rape.  The history of the term “misandrist,” and why it’s always been a part of bad faith arguments against women’s rights.  Does Zawn hate men? (Jeff’s answers: “No. Yes. Not all men.”) Why so many men see movements for women’s rights as a threat.  Why men who actually like women are unthreatened by feminism.  Men’s frustration at having to actually work for things.  Jeff on the most pathetic kind of sex anyone can have.  Why misandry can never be analogous to misogyny. The disparity between Zawn and Jeff’s experiences complaining about poor medical care.  Why men are so committed to wasting so much of women’s time.  We end with our new feature, the Liberating Motherhood Complaint Box. This is where we address the whining, bloviating nonsense your husbands tell you about my podcast specifically, or feminism more generally. It culminates in Zawn referring to a man as a “loser bitch.”  Make your partner’s ignorance famous, and subject him to my judgment! You can submit your own complaint for next month’s complaint box here. Please only use this form to submit complaints from men specifically about feminism or my podcast—not general complaints, not general questions, not general messages for me.  If you need to contact me for something else, you can find forms for just about everything on the Liberating Motherhood website.  The full results of the survey I mention will be available to paid subscribers September 9, 2025.  We have new kittens, and they currently live in my office, which they are destroying. They are aspiring misandrists, and were quite interested in the podcast. For this reason, you’ll hear some background noises. 

Jennie Young, a professor of writing and rhetoric and author of 'Burn the Haystack', dives into the murky waters of modern dating in a patriarchal society. She shares her insights on why dating has become a nightmare for women, revealing rhetorical patterns that signal misogyny. Jennie emphasizes empowering women to critically assess potential partners and discusses the influence of porn on online dating culture. Through humor and personal anecdotes, she provides tools for navigating relationships, urging women to recognize red flags and aspire towards healthier connections.

“We are allowed to have a good life while giving our children good lives.” — Ruthie Ackerman In patriarchy, there’s no way to get motherhood right. No matter what you do, someone will always gleefully tell you it’s wrong—and then use this shame to attempt to shrink you. Patriarchy wants to convince women that the challenges of motherhood are personal, not political, that our failings are our own fault rather than the predictable result of unacceptable structural realities.  Journalist Ruthie Ackerman wasn’t sure if she wanted to have kids, wasn’t sure if she could be a good mother, and didn’t know if it would be possible to be a mother and still have a good life. In her new book, The Mother Code, she grapples with the myths that color our perceptions of motherhood and ourselves. I loved talking to her about mother culture, patriarchy, fertility, and more. In this epsiode we talk about:  The fertility wealth gap  Having a good life while being a good mother  The financial realities that constrain mothers’ options  Maternal dread and maternal ambivalence  As always, you can help support this podcast by heart-reacting, liking, commenting, sharing on social media, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform.  About Ruthie Ackerman  An award-winning journalist, Ruthie Ackerman’s writing has been published in Vogue, Glamour, O Magazine, The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Salon, Slate, Newsweek, and more. Her Modern Love essay for the New York Times became the launching point for her memoir, The Mother Code: My Story of Love, Loss, and the Myths That Shape Us. Ruthie launched The Ignite Writers Collective in 2019 and since then has become an in-demand book coach and developmental editor. Her client wins include a USA Today bestseller, book deals with Big 5 publishers, representation by buzzy book agents, and essays in prestigious outlets. She has a Master's in Journalism from New York University and lives in Brooklyn with her family. Find her on Substack here, or check out her website or Instagram. You can buy her book, The Mother Code, here.  Find all of the books I recommend on the podcast at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.  You can find The Retrievals, the podcast we mention, here. 

“We need to figure out how to create political, social solidarity that is not reliant on some sort of fantasy that they have to see us, hear us, etc. That idea that we need to be in perfect harmony to work together is not going to happen. It’s a fool’s errand, a waste of time and energy. That doesn’t mean you can’t work with somebody…There’s so much energy wasted in the left on coming to consensus. You don’t need consensus. You need solidarity.” — Jessa Crispin I discovered Jessa Crispin shortly after Donald Trump was elected, when I stumbled across “Why I am Not a Feminist.” I thought it was going to be another annoying anti-feminist tome, or a moderate feminist insisting we need to be less radical. It was neither. It was so tightly argued, so compelling and thoughtful, that when her publicist reached out to me about appearing on the podcast, I literally squealed. Jessa is a cultural critic who talks about feminism, relationships, literature, and film. She has done SO MUCH. She knows so much. I adore her, even when I disagree with her, and I think you’ll love her to. Some of what we talk about in this wide-reaching episode: Building consensus vs solidarity, and why the left in the United States is so ineffective. How the Trump administration shifted feminist discourse. What if we just got rid of all the men? The zombie patriarchy, and why it makes everything so confusing. Why Jessa believes patriarchy doesn’t really exist anymore (but don’t send her hate mail; this doesn’t mean she thinks misogyny is done or feminism is pointless). Why women continue to enter into marriages, which serve as a key tool of oppression. Spoiler alert: it’s because marriage opens access to resources that are increasingly inaccessible. The challenges of living a principled, purposeful life. About Jessa Crispin Jessa Crispin is the author of several books, including Why I Am Not a Feminist: A Feminist Manifesto, The Dead Ladies Project, and My Three Dads. She is the editor and founder of The Culture We Deserve as well as host with Nico Rodriguez of TCWD weekly podcast. In 2002, she launched Bookslut.com, one of the first and most treasured literary websites of the era; it ran for fifteen years. She is originally from Lincoln, Kansas, and currently lives in Philadelphia. Jessa’s latest book, What is Wrong With Men?, explores feminism and masculinity through Michael Douglas films. Her Substack, The Culture We Deserve, is amazing. I have links to all of Jessa’s books, as well as a long list of recommended texts, on the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.org page. If you like this podcast or find my work valuable, I hope you’ll consider supporting it! Your paid support ensures I never have to take advertiser dollars, and am beholden only to my readership. You’ll also get access to one more podcast episode each month, eight additional pieces of written work, and membership in the Liberating Motherhood Community. You can also support this podcast for free! Heart-reacting makes a huge difference, as does commenting and sharing on social media. If you listen to this podcast on a podcast platform, please leave a positive review; it makes a huge difference. Oh, and tell the people you love about this podcast too! My next podcast episode will be out two weeks from today, and I’ll be talking about misandry, man-hatred, what it means to hate men, and whether I hate men.

Misogyny isn’t really about hating women. After all, if pure hate explained everything, wouldn’t that mean that only mean men abuse women, and that misogynists never seek relationships with women? Men are able to mistreat women they claim to love because of the internal logic of misogyny. They’re not irrational or unhinged; they’re following a set of rules rooted in entitlement.  Kate Manne is a philosopher who focuses on understanding what’s behind the misogynistic behavior patriarchy creates and enables. She envisions misogyny as a sort of disciplinary tool for reinforcing gendered norms, and preserving men’s access to resources—especially the highly valuable resource of women’s labor.  We cover a lot of ground in this podcast, including:  The reflexive denial in the media of misogyny.  Misogyny as a system for enforcing men’s entitlement to women’s labor.  Why misogyny is not random and not mental illness, but instead a set of corrupt moral values that reflect the values of the wider culture.  Misogyny as more than mere hatred of women, and why certain women may be more impacted by misogyny than others.  How not to hate your husband after children…or maybe you should just hate him.  The normalization of all forms of violence.  The parallels between misogyny and fascism.  Fatphobia as a core element of misogyny.  About Kate Manne  Kate Manne is an associate professor at the Sage School of philosophy at Cornell University. She specializes in moral, social, and feminist philosophy, and has written three books: DOWN GIRL: The Logic of Misogyny (Oxford University Press, 2018), ENTITLED: How Male Privilege Hurts Women (Crown, 2020) and UNSHRINKING: How to Face Fatphobia (Crown, 2024), a National Book Award finalist in non-fiction. In addition to academic work, she regularly writes opinion pieces and essays for a wider audience, including in outlets such as The New York Times, The Cut, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, The Nation, and Time. She writes a substack newsletter, More to Hate, exploring misogyny, fatphobia, and their intersection.

Women are angry, and rightfully so. Yet everywhere we go, men tell us we are too angry, and that if we were just nicer about our oppression, they’d knock if off. Anger, though, is key to women’s liberation. Writer Gemma Hartley is here to tell us why.  About Gemma Hartley (and where to find her) Gemma Hartley is a freelance writer with a BA in writing from The University of Nevada, Reno. She is author of FED UP: Emotional Labor, Women and The Way Forward. She has written a new book, No One Loves an Angry Woman, which will be out new year. Her Substack, No one Loves an Angry Woman, explores feminism, anger, domestic labor inequity, and more. She also has an amazing Substack for writers, called Creative Commitment.

“We depoliticize distress by locating it in the individual.” — Naomi Fisher  Naomi Fisher helped me become a better mother without ever even meeting me. I stumbled across her work when one of my children was dealing with school anxiety. Doing so empowered me to take my child’s distress seriously and trust my instincts as a mother.  In this podcast episode, Dr. Fisher and I discuss the myriad harms of authoritarian parenting practices, that focus on compliance above all else. Dr. Fisher’s work focuses heavily on school anxiety and refusal. Some of the topics we discuss in this episode include:  The weaponization of mom-guilt and mom-shaming to gain compliance from mothers and children.  Why we spend so much time teaching parents not to trust their children’s emotions.  Alternatives to forced compliance, and what to do when a child doesn’t feel like they can go to school.  Why catastrophization plays such a significant role in parenting.  Antidotes to rigid thinking, and what to do when plan A (or B, or C) doesn’t work.  Why the relationship with the child must always come first.  Trusting children to know their needs, and helping them to advocate for those needs.  I absolutely love listening to Dr. Fisher, and I listen to this recording every time I need a pep talk to get through the hard times with my own kids. I hope it will have the same effect on you.  About Dr. Naomi Fisher Naomi Fisher is an independent clinical psychologist. She specializes in trauma, autism and alternative ways to learn. She has a doctorate in clinical psychology from Kings College London (Maudsley), a PhD in developmental cognitive psychology also from Kings College (IoPPN), and a degree in Experimental Psychology from the University of Cambridge. She is the author of four books: Changing Our Minds, The Teenager’s Guide to Burnout, A Different Way to Learn, and When the Naughty Step Makes Things Worse.  I urge everyone to visit her incredible Substack, where you will find so much wisdom.  You can also check out her website here.  Supporting This Podcast This podcast depends on you to survive and thrive!  If you like this podcast, you can help me continue making it with your support! A few free ways to support include: Leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Liking and sharing the podcast on social media. Heart-reacting the Substack post. If you really love the podcast, you can get more of it by becoming a paid subscriber. Paid Substack subscribers get at least one bonus episode of the podcast each month, as well as eight bonus Substack posts and access to the Liberating Motherhood community.