Liberating Motherhood

Lawyers have always been on the frontlines of the fight for social justice. Nearly every enshrined right women have is thanks to a lawsuit. Fatima Goss Graves is an attorney and expert in using the law for good. I’ve followed her work since the days of Time’s Up, and literally squealed when her team reached out to me about appearing on the podcast.  Her wisdom is rich and deep, and I hope she’ll inspire some hope that we can still build a brighter tomorrow—even now. Hope is one of the most powerful tools we have.  You’ll have to excuse my hoarse voice; I’ve had a never-ending cold for weeks, and am partially convinced that this is just how I sound now.  In this interview, Fatima and I discuss a wide range of topics, including:  The history of The National Women’s Law Center, and how women can use the law as a tool of social justice.  Why we mustn’t comply in advance in the face of fascism.  The fact that we still have rights, even now, still have protection against discrimination, and the law can still work for activists, if we know how to use it.  Lawsuits as a tool for enforcing civil rights.  The fight for accessible and affordable childcare, and why it is so integral to women’s freedom.  Why women are leaving the workforce—and how we can bring them back.  How governments can enact truly family-friendly policies.  The policing of children in schools, the failure to accommodate children’s academic needs, and what a healthier school system might look like.  About Fatima Goss Graves Fatima Goss Graves is a nationally recognized leader in the fight for gender justice and an expert in law, policy, and culture change. She is President and CEO of the National Women’s Law Center, President of the National Women’s Law Center Action Fund, and a co-founder of the TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund. You can get help from the National Women’s Law Center here. Learn more about volunteering/partnering with NWLC here.  You can find more information about your employment rights under the Civil Rights Act here.  Watch Fatima go hard against DOGE here. 

Do I have men? Should you? Yes. No. Maybe. Misogynist men love to weaponize false claims of misandry against women. In fact, one of the clearest signs that a man is a misogynist is that he thinks misandry is real, common, and a threat.  Jeff and I have wanted to talk about bogus claims of misandry for a long time. Here’s the result.  Some of the many topics we talk about in this podcast include:  Why we need to stop saying “sexual coercion” or “obligatory sex” and start calling it rape.  The history of the term “misandrist,” and why it’s always been a part of bad faith arguments against women’s rights.  Does Zawn hate men? (Jeff’s answers: “No. Yes. Not all men.”) Why so many men see movements for women’s rights as a threat.  Why men who actually like women are unthreatened by feminism.  Men’s frustration at having to actually work for things.  Jeff on the most pathetic kind of sex anyone can have.  Why misandry can never be analogous to misogyny. The disparity between Zawn and Jeff’s experiences complaining about poor medical care.  Why men are so committed to wasting so much of women’s time.  We end with our new feature, the Liberating Motherhood Complaint Box. This is where we address the whining, bloviating nonsense your husbands tell you about my podcast specifically, or feminism more generally. It culminates in Zawn referring to a man as a “loser bitch.”  Make your partner’s ignorance famous, and subject him to my judgment! You can submit your own complaint for next month’s complaint box here. Please only use this form to submit complaints from men specifically about feminism or my podcast—not general complaints, not general questions, not general messages for me.  If you need to contact me for something else, you can find forms for just about everything on the Liberating Motherhood website.  The full results of the survey I mention will be available to paid subscribers September 9, 2025.  We have new kittens, and they currently live in my office, which they are destroying. They are aspiring misandrists, and were quite interested in the podcast. For this reason, you’ll hear some background noises. 

Jennie Young, a professor of writing and rhetoric and author of 'Burn the Haystack', dives into the murky waters of modern dating in a patriarchal society. She shares her insights on why dating has become a nightmare for women, revealing rhetorical patterns that signal misogyny. Jennie emphasizes empowering women to critically assess potential partners and discusses the influence of porn on online dating culture. Through humor and personal anecdotes, she provides tools for navigating relationships, urging women to recognize red flags and aspire towards healthier connections.

“We are allowed to have a good life while giving our children good lives.” — Ruthie Ackerman In patriarchy, there’s no way to get motherhood right. No matter what you do, someone will always gleefully tell you it’s wrong—and then use this shame to attempt to shrink you. Patriarchy wants to convince women that the challenges of motherhood are personal, not political, that our failings are our own fault rather than the predictable result of unacceptable structural realities.  Journalist Ruthie Ackerman wasn’t sure if she wanted to have kids, wasn’t sure if she could be a good mother, and didn’t know if it would be possible to be a mother and still have a good life. In her new book, The Mother Code, she grapples with the myths that color our perceptions of motherhood and ourselves. I loved talking to her about mother culture, patriarchy, fertility, and more. In this epsiode we talk about:  The fertility wealth gap  Having a good life while being a good mother  The financial realities that constrain mothers’ options  Maternal dread and maternal ambivalence  As always, you can help support this podcast by heart-reacting, liking, commenting, sharing on social media, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform.  About Ruthie Ackerman  An award-winning journalist, Ruthie Ackerman’s writing has been published in Vogue, Glamour, O Magazine, The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Salon, Slate, Newsweek, and more. Her Modern Love essay for the New York Times became the launching point for her memoir, The Mother Code: My Story of Love, Loss, and the Myths That Shape Us. Ruthie launched The Ignite Writers Collective in 2019 and since then has become an in-demand book coach and developmental editor. Her client wins include a USA Today bestseller, book deals with Big 5 publishers, representation by buzzy book agents, and essays in prestigious outlets. She has a Master's in Journalism from New York University and lives in Brooklyn with her family. Find her on Substack here, or check out her website or Instagram. You can buy her book, The Mother Code, here.  Find all of the books I recommend on the podcast at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.  You can find The Retrievals, the podcast we mention, here. 

“We need to figure out how to create political, social solidarity that is not reliant on some sort of fantasy that they have to see us, hear us, etc. That idea that we need to be in perfect harmony to work together is not going to happen. It’s a fool’s errand, a waste of time and energy. That doesn’t mean you can’t work with somebody…There’s so much energy wasted in the left on coming to consensus. You don’t need consensus. You need solidarity.” — Jessa Crispin I discovered Jessa Crispin shortly after Donald Trump was elected, when I stumbled across “Why I am Not a Feminist.” I thought it was going to be another annoying anti-feminist tome, or a moderate feminist insisting we need to be less radical. It was neither. It was so tightly argued, so compelling and thoughtful, that when her publicist reached out to me about appearing on the podcast, I literally squealed. Jessa is a cultural critic who talks about feminism, relationships, literature, and film. She has done SO MUCH. She knows so much. I adore her, even when I disagree with her, and I think you’ll love her to. Some of what we talk about in this wide-reaching episode: Building consensus vs solidarity, and why the left in the United States is so ineffective. How the Trump administration shifted feminist discourse. What if we just got rid of all the men? The zombie patriarchy, and why it makes everything so confusing. Why Jessa believes patriarchy doesn’t really exist anymore (but don’t send her hate mail; this doesn’t mean she thinks misogyny is done or feminism is pointless). Why women continue to enter into marriages, which serve as a key tool of oppression. Spoiler alert: it’s because marriage opens access to resources that are increasingly inaccessible. The challenges of living a principled, purposeful life. About Jessa Crispin Jessa Crispin is the author of several books, including Why I Am Not a Feminist: A Feminist Manifesto, The Dead Ladies Project, and My Three Dads. She is the editor and founder of The Culture We Deserve as well as host with Nico Rodriguez of TCWD weekly podcast. In 2002, she launched Bookslut.com, one of the first and most treasured literary websites of the era; it ran for fifteen years. She is originally from Lincoln, Kansas, and currently lives in Philadelphia. Jessa’s latest book, What is Wrong With Men?, explores feminism and masculinity through Michael Douglas films. Her Substack, The Culture We Deserve, is amazing. I have links to all of Jessa’s books, as well as a long list of recommended texts, on the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.org page. If you like this podcast or find my work valuable, I hope you’ll consider supporting it! Your paid support ensures I never have to take advertiser dollars, and am beholden only to my readership. You’ll also get access to one more podcast episode each month, eight additional pieces of written work, and membership in the Liberating Motherhood Community. You can also support this podcast for free! Heart-reacting makes a huge difference, as does commenting and sharing on social media. If you listen to this podcast on a podcast platform, please leave a positive review; it makes a huge difference. Oh, and tell the people you love about this podcast too! My next podcast episode will be out two weeks from today, and I’ll be talking about misandry, man-hatred, what it means to hate men, and whether I hate men.

Misogyny isn’t really about hating women. After all, if pure hate explained everything, wouldn’t that mean that only mean men abuse women, and that misogynists never seek relationships with women? Men are able to mistreat women they claim to love because of the internal logic of misogyny. They’re not irrational or unhinged; they’re following a set of rules rooted in entitlement.  Kate Manne is a philosopher who focuses on understanding what’s behind the misogynistic behavior patriarchy creates and enables. She envisions misogyny as a sort of disciplinary tool for reinforcing gendered norms, and preserving men’s access to resources—especially the highly valuable resource of women’s labor.  We cover a lot of ground in this podcast, including:  The reflexive denial in the media of misogyny.  Misogyny as a system for enforcing men’s entitlement to women’s labor.  Why misogyny is not random and not mental illness, but instead a set of corrupt moral values that reflect the values of the wider culture.  Misogyny as more than mere hatred of women, and why certain women may be more impacted by misogyny than others.  How not to hate your husband after children…or maybe you should just hate him.  The normalization of all forms of violence.  The parallels between misogyny and fascism.  Fatphobia as a core element of misogyny.  About Kate Manne  Kate Manne is an associate professor at the Sage School of philosophy at Cornell University. She specializes in moral, social, and feminist philosophy, and has written three books: DOWN GIRL: The Logic of Misogyny (Oxford University Press, 2018), ENTITLED: How Male Privilege Hurts Women (Crown, 2020) and UNSHRINKING: How to Face Fatphobia (Crown, 2024), a National Book Award finalist in non-fiction. In addition to academic work, she regularly writes opinion pieces and essays for a wider audience, including in outlets such as The New York Times, The Cut, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, The Nation, and Time. She writes a substack newsletter, More to Hate, exploring misogyny, fatphobia, and their intersection.

Women are angry, and rightfully so. Yet everywhere we go, men tell us we are too angry, and that if we were just nicer about our oppression, they’d knock if off. Anger, though, is key to women’s liberation. Writer Gemma Hartley is here to tell us why.  About Gemma Hartley (and where to find her) Gemma Hartley is a freelance writer with a BA in writing from The University of Nevada, Reno. She is author of FED UP: Emotional Labor, Women and The Way Forward. She has written a new book, No One Loves an Angry Woman, which will be out new year. Her Substack, No one Loves an Angry Woman, explores feminism, anger, domestic labor inequity, and more. She also has an amazing Substack for writers, called Creative Commitment.

“We depoliticize distress by locating it in the individual.” — Naomi Fisher  Naomi Fisher helped me become a better mother without ever even meeting me. I stumbled across her work when one of my children was dealing with school anxiety. Doing so empowered me to take my child’s distress seriously and trust my instincts as a mother.  In this podcast episode, Dr. Fisher and I discuss the myriad harms of authoritarian parenting practices, that focus on compliance above all else. Dr. Fisher’s work focuses heavily on school anxiety and refusal. Some of the topics we discuss in this episode include:  The weaponization of mom-guilt and mom-shaming to gain compliance from mothers and children.  Why we spend so much time teaching parents not to trust their children’s emotions.  Alternatives to forced compliance, and what to do when a child doesn’t feel like they can go to school.  Why catastrophization plays such a significant role in parenting.  Antidotes to rigid thinking, and what to do when plan A (or B, or C) doesn’t work.  Why the relationship with the child must always come first.  Trusting children to know their needs, and helping them to advocate for those needs.  I absolutely love listening to Dr. Fisher, and I listen to this recording every time I need a pep talk to get through the hard times with my own kids. I hope it will have the same effect on you.  About Dr. Naomi Fisher Naomi Fisher is an independent clinical psychologist. She specializes in trauma, autism and alternative ways to learn. She has a doctorate in clinical psychology from Kings College London (Maudsley), a PhD in developmental cognitive psychology also from Kings College (IoPPN), and a degree in Experimental Psychology from the University of Cambridge. She is the author of four books: Changing Our Minds, The Teenager’s Guide to Burnout, A Different Way to Learn, and When the Naughty Step Makes Things Worse.  I urge everyone to visit her incredible Substack, where you will find so much wisdom.  You can also check out her website here.  Supporting This Podcast This podcast depends on you to survive and thrive!  If you like this podcast, you can help me continue making it with your support! A few free ways to support include: Leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Liking and sharing the podcast on social media. Heart-reacting the Substack post. If you really love the podcast, you can get more of it by becoming a paid subscriber. Paid Substack subscribers get at least one bonus episode of the podcast each month, as well as eight bonus Substack posts and access to the Liberating Motherhood community.

The silencing and targeting of mothers is a deliberate act of damaging the next generation and attacking women. When we rob mothers of their power, we slow the process of human liberation. Beth Berry is a coach, mentor, and seasoned mother and activist who works with mothers to access their power so they can be changemakers. In this podcast episode, we talked about maternal activism, making friends, and so much more. Here’s some of what we cover: How activists often experience a diminishing of their humanity, and an expectation that we should have limitless capacity and resources, What a sustainable lifetime of activism looks like. The depoliticization of motherhood: Motherhood is inherently political. So why don’t we see issues of maternal justice as political? The critical need for community: how we build it, why we struggle with it and so often lose it. Why self-compassion has to be a part of any revolution. Activism as performance vs. real activism, and why our liberation work must also look inward. Why mothers live in fear of traumatizing their children, and how this can be a tool for controlling them. How the demonization of awkwardness has made it impossible for us to build community. The misuse and weaponization of boundaries work. About Beth Berry Beth Berry is a coach, teacher, author, and mother to four grown daughters. Through her online courses, small groups, and retreats, she helps mothers deconstruct disempowering narratives, deepen and heal their relationship with themselves, better understand and meet their needs, and live more meaningful and liberated lives. Beth began supporting mothers more than 20 years ago as a La Leche League leader. Twelve years ago, she started her popular blog, Revolution From Home, which led to her writing a bestselling book, Motherwhelmed. Today, she teaches workshops and short courses, leads women on year-long healing journeys, and mentors others with a heart for gathering and nurturing mothers. She envisions a future where mothers’ needs are visible and well-met and seeks to co-create a world in which mothers feel beautifully supported and able to create lives they truly love. You can buy her book here. Visit her website here. Check out her amazing Instagram here. Supporting This Podcast If you like this podcast, you can help me continue making it with your support! A few free ways to support include: Leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Liking and sharing the podcast on social media. Heart-reacting the Substack post. If you really love the podcast, you can get more of it by becoming a paid subscriber. Paid Substack subscribers get at least one bonus episode of the podcast each month, as well as eight bonus Substack posts and access to the Liberating Motherhood community. Liberating Motherhood is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

“I think about and write about this all the time, and yet I still think there’s something wrong with me that it’s so hard for me. It’s so hard to separate what we’ve been told…from the truth, which is that it’s not us.” — Mary Catherine Starr Patriarchy tells everyone motherhood is easy, and demands that mothers perform ease. The pressure to do this conceals the realities of motherhood, convincing us that the highly political challenges of motherhood are personal, individual failings. As a result, we spend our lives on a hamster wheel making lists, going to therapy, and trying to do better rather than demanding better from an oppressive society.  Every woman thinks she’s the only one, but she is not. Because this is not personal; it’s political.  Mary Catherine isn’t just a force of nature; she’s also my childhood friend. So we talk about how our careers have unfolded, too, including dealing with incels and angry readers.  About Mary Catherine Starr Mary Catherine Starr is a mother-of-two and a graphic designer, illustrator, yoga teacher, and the artist behind the Instagram account @momlife_comics. Mary Catherine's work focuses on the challenges of marriage, motherhood, double standards, and inequality in both the household and the workplace. She is passionate about speaking up for women and bringing awareness to the mental load + invisible labor of motherhood. Mary Catherine lives in Massachusetts with her family and her son’s large collection of plastic dinosaurs. Her first book, a comic memoir entitled Mama Needs a Minute!, will be out on March 11th, 2025. You can follow Mary Catherine’s comic strip here.  Buy her amazing book here.  Follow Mary Catherine on Substack here.  Visit her website here.