The Inequality Podcast

Neighborhoods and schools—through factors like socioeconomic composition, access to resources, racial segregation, and social networks—contribute to patterns of inequality and influence mobility. Today’s guests provide cross-disciplinary insights into how these environments shape opportunities and outcomes.First, host Steven Durlauf speaks with the University of Wisconsin’s Felix Elwert, UC Berkeley’s David Harding, and the Stone Center’s own Geoffrey Wodtke on their research, which investigates neighborhood effects and how they manifest throughout economic and social systems, with a spotlight on segregation in schools.Their discussion is followed by a conversation with Columbia University’s Marissa Thompson, who studies education’s role in shaping inequality. She shares her findings with hosts Geoffrey Wodtke and Damon Jones on how parents form their perceptions of neighborhood schools, how those perceptions can drive segregation, and what policy interventions might make a difference.Read the 2011 study authored by Geoff, Felix and David, “Neighborhood Effects in Temporal Perspective: The Impact of Long-Term Exposure to Concentrated Disadvantage on High School Graduation.”Read Marissa’s 2023 study of parental perceptions of school segregation, “My School District Isn’t Segregated: Experimental Evidence on the Effect of Information on Parental Preferences Regarding School Segregation.”Learn more about the Stone Center at our website.

On this episode of The Inequality Podcast, host Steven Durlauf is joined by Janet Gornick, director of the Stone Center of Socio-Economic Inequality at The City University of New York and one of the world’s foremost experts on the measurement of socio-economic inequality. They discuss her many contributions to improving the quantity and quality of inequality data available to researchers, including her time as director of LIS, the organization formerly known as the Luxembourg Income Study. The importance of data-gathering efforts like LIS remains front and center as the conversation progresses into a discussion of gender inequality and differences in family structures across countries. Last, the two reflect on the importance of an interdisciplinary approach to social science research and consider what questions new scholars should pursue in the future.Read a selection of Janet’s work here, and follow her on Twitter/X.Explore the LIS Database here.Read more about The Stone Center at CUNY, which houses the U.S. office of LIS, at their website.

In the first episode of the new academic year, Steven sits down with Miles Corak to discuss cross-country comparisons of inequality and intergenerational mobility. They discuss the Great Gatsby Curve, the mechanisms behind the intergenerational persistence of socioeconomic status, and related innovations in economic research and policy in the U.S. and Canada.Read Miles’ blog post about the Gatsby curve here.

Since the 1970s, two-parent households have declined, while single-parent households have become more commonplace in the United States. This shift has occurred due to various factors, ranging from changes in labor markets, mass incarceration, and changing social norms surrounding marriage and parental responsibilities. In her book “The Two-Parent Privilege,” Melissa Kearny explores how this shift in family structure is related to childhood outcomes. Kearney argues that resources and stability afforded by a two-parent household yield significantly better outcomes: their children are much more likely to graduate high school, get a college degree, and have high earnings in the job market as adults. By contrast, children who grow up in single-parent households have substantially lower chances of such a life trajectory and are likely to raise their children alone. These empirical regularities have natural public policy implications. Join University of Maryland Professor Melissa Kearney to discuss her new book and how modern trends in family structure perpetuate inequality and erode social mobility. Geoffrey Wodtke, Associate Director of the Stone Center, moderates the discussion. Steven Durlauf, Director of the Stone Center, Damon Jones, an Associate Director of the Stone Center, and Ariel Kalil, a Stone Center Advisor, offer expert commentary. This event aims to present its audience with evidence of the effects of family structure on childhood outcomes and to explore public policies to strengthen the potential for two-parent households while making the consequences of single-parent households less onerous.This event was recorded on November 29th, 2023.LINKS:Full video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDMUTO7lxE&t=1646sHarris School YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/@HarrisPublicPolicy The Two-Parent Privilege: How Americans Stopped Getting Married and Started Falling Behind (University of Chicago Press): https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/T/bo205550079.html

The 2023 Supreme Court decision in Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard and UNC struck down race-based college admissions. It reignited debates about affirmative action as a tool for addressing inequality and historical injustice. In an interview recorded live at the Harris School of Public Policy in November, Stone Center Director Steven Durlauf and Brown University economist Glenn Loury discuss their different perspectives on affirmative action. Ethan Bueno de Mesquita, Interim Dean of the Harris School, moderates the event. This is the first installment of a series of Conversations on Inequality. These conversations aim to present audiences with arguments on both sides of a complex and nuanced issue with the hope of fostering a citizenry able to evaluate opposing perspectives critically and make informed decisions.LINKSFull Video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dc3D6iwlI&t=187sHarris School YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HarrisPublicPolicy

Steven talks to Guido Alfani, professor of economic history at Bocconi University, about the history of wealth inequality in western civilization. They discuss how the roles and perceptions of the rich have changed over time, touching on important moments in Western civilization, such as the Renaissance, the Middle Ages, the Industrial Revolution, and the modern era. Dr. Alfani also offers his thoughts on how things like religion, culture, war, disease, and government policies alleviate (or help contribute to) persistent wealth inequality.   The Inequality in Perspective segment explores the lives of Tiberius and Sempronius Gracchus, two brothers who pursued radical reforms to redistribute land and address inequality during the waning years of the Roman Republic. Be sure to check out Dr. Alfani’s new book, As God’s Among Men: A History of the Rich in the West, available now.TIMELINE:00-29:50: Interview with Dr. Alfani29:50-44:49: Inequality in Perspective segmentLINKS:As Gods Among Men: A History of the Rich in the West, by Guido Alfani (published by PrincetonUniversity Press): https://press.princeton.edu/our-authors/alfani-guidoThe Gracchi Attempt Reform (part of a series on The Rise and Fall of Rome):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTwjsIhcQmIWho Were the Gracchi Brothers of Ancient Rome?: https://www.thoughtco.com/gracchi-brothers-tiberius-gaius-gracchus-112494

Conrad Miller, Associate Professor of Economic Analysis and Policy at the University of California-Berkley’s Haas School of Business, joins Steven to discuss discrimination and affirmative action. The conversation digs into the methodology and surprising conclusions from four of Dr. Miller’s papers: one that explores federal affirmative action policies in hiring, another that examines how racial composition of a workforce changes absent federal intervention, a third that examines the role of state policy in prolonging gender discrimination in Saudi Arabia, and a fourth that scrutinizes police search data to see whether it is actually possible to strike a balance between effective searches and equitable, nondiscriminatory treatment. These papers collectively illustrate how government policy can be used for good (and bad) in addressing discriminatory hiring practices and beliefs. The Inequality in Perspective segment discusses the legal background and important Supreme Court cases surrounding affirmative action both in employment and higher education.Outline:00-28:40 -- Interview28:41-43:00 -- IIP SegmentLinks:https://www.oyez.org/ (A fantastic database containing summaries and audio from Supreme Court cases going back to 1955)Teamsters v. United States: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1976/75-636Connecticut v. Teal: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1981/80-2147Metro Broadcasting v. Federal Communication Commission: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1989/89-700Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Peña: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1994/93-1841Regents of the University of California v. Bakke: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1979/76-811Grutter v. Bollinger: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2002/02-241Students for Fair Admissions v. President and Fellows of Harvard College: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2022/20-1199Students for Fair Admissions v. University of North Carolina: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2022/21-707

Steven talks to Xi Song, associate professor of Sociology and Demography at the University of Pennsylvania, about trends in intergenerational mobility across time and space. Dr. Song details how intergenerational mobility declined in the United States after World War II but then dives further to explore the diversity of experiences for different groups. She discusses the trends in mobility as broken down by race, immigration status, and gender. Steven and Dr. Song even outline the different ways that mobility can be defined and measured, from occupational mobility to exchange and structural mobility. Dr. Song then details trends in mobility in different countries, particularly in China, as well as the potential advantages of having centuries of genealogical data at your disposal. The Inequality in Perspective segment explores China’s One Child Policy and its possible impacts on intergenerational mobility. Special thanks to Dr. Lixing Li, economics professor at Peking University and affiliate of the Stone Center, for his contributions to the segment.LINKS:“The One-Child Policy Amplifies Economic Inequality Across Generations in China” (IZA Institute of Labor Economics): https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13617/the-one-child-policy-amplifies-economic-inequality-across-generations-in-china#:~:text=13617%3A%20The%20One%2DChild%20Policy,Inequality%20across%20Generations%20in%20China&text=This%20study%20finds%20that%20China's,since%20its%20introduction%20in%201979“A Grand Socioeconomic Reshuffle: The One-Child Policy and Intergenerational Mobility in China” (NBER): https://conference.nber.org/conf_papers/f176999.pdf“China’s Aging Population is a Major Threat to its Future” (TIME): https://time.com/5523805/china-aging-population-working-age/

Steven and Geoff are joined by Michael Esposito, Assistant Professor of Sociology at the University of Minnesota, in a discussion about racial health disparities that continue to plague the United States. They explore how things like redlining, law enforcement practices, and unequal access to medical care contribute to racial gaps in both health outcomes and even mortality rates. Dr. Esposito also offers his thoughts on how budget priorities could be adjusted to address a wider definition of “public safety”. The Inequality in Perspective segment takes a deep dive into the history of redlining ad residential segregation in Chicago.LINKS:Mapping Inequality (amazing reference for HOLC maps from across the country): https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=12/41.776/-87.652&city=chicago-il&area=D99Mahalia Jackson’s Person to Person interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDQC2fjD-Hk“Historic Home Mortgage Redlining in Chicago” (Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society): https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/jillistathistsoc.107.2.0204“Home histories: Mahalia Jackson’s Home” (South Side Weekly): https://southsideweekly.com/rich-history-mahalia-jackson-chatham-home/Chicago FHA Map (UChicago credentials required): https://luna.lib.uchicago.edu/luna/servlet/detail/UCHICAGO~2~2~590~1240108:Mortgage-risk-classified-by-distric?qvq=q:chicago%20map%20federal;lc:uofclibmgr2~4~4,ARCHIVISION~2~2,UCHICAGO~28~28,uofclibmgr2~5~5,UCHICAGO~5~5,UCHICAGO~2~2,LUNAIMAGINGIIIFSALADTUA~5~5,uofclibmgr~21~21,UCHICAGO~12~12,ARCHIVISION~6~6,RUMSEY~8~1,UCHICAGO~19~19,UoEsha~4~4,UCHICAGO~11~11,UCHICAGO~18~18,uofclibmgr2~7~7,RUMSEY~9~1,uofclibmgr2~9~9,uofclibmgr2~3~3,ESTATE~2~1,UCHICAGO~6~6,UCHICAGO~7~7,uofclibmgr2~1~1,UCHICAGO~10~10,BINDINGS~1~1,UCHICAGO~14~14,PRATTPRT~21~21,uofclibmgr2~2~2,UCHICAGO~1~1,PRATTPRT~12~12,ARCHIVISION~4~4,BardBar~1~1,ARCHIVISION~5~5,AMICO~1~1,ChineseArtENG~1~1,HOOVER~1~1,uofclibmgr2~10~10,FOLGERCM1~6~6,UCHICAGO~20~20,LUNAIMAGINGIIIFSALADTUA~1~1,uofclibmgr~20~20,UCHICAGO~3~3,ARCHIVISIONBASETO14~1~1,uofclibmgr~16~16,UCHICAGO~15~15,LUNAIMAGINGIIIFSALADTUA~4~4,ARCHIVISION~3~3,UCHICAGO~17~17,UCHICAGO~16~16&mi=0&trs=5

Steven sits down with Matthew Kahn, Provost Professor of Economics at the University of Southern California, to discuss the interactions between inequality and climate change. Dr. Kahn outlines how changes in the environment are altering people’s lives across the globe, from hurricane-ravaged residents of New Orleans to rice-farmers-turned-shrimp-sellers in Dhaka. The lively discussion even explores the idea of progressives buying oil fields, up-zoning on higher ground, and allowing insurance premium prices to rise in order to reflect risk. The Inequality in Perspective segment explores the divide between the Global North and the Global South and how it complicates climate mitigation.Links:International Panel on Climate Change’s 2022 Report: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGIII_FullReport.pdf “Renewing Global Climate Change Action for Fragile and Developing Countries” (Brookings Institute): https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/NOV-2022-Signe_Mbaye_FINAL-1.pdf“It is Unfair to Push Poor Countries to Reach Zero Carbon Emissions too Early” (Brookings Institute): https://www.brookings.edu/articles/it-is-unfair-to-push-poor-countries-to-reach-zero-carbon-emissions-too-early/ The Brandt Line: https://www.bisa.ac.uk/articles/brandt-line-after-forty-years-more-north-south-relations-change-more-they-stay-same