The Inequality Podcast

Economists are often accused of practicing a “dismal science,” a discipline defined by the sober measurement of humanity’s limits: scarcity, zero-sum propositions, and inequality. But the old stereotype overlooks a more hopeful side of the science, one in which economists resemble moral philosophers.Peter Boettke is among the foremost scholars of this latter brand of economics. He teaches at George Mason University, where he is the Director of the F.A. Hayek Program for Advanced Study in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics at the Mercatus Center. A disciple of what is often called the Austrian school, Boettke has written about how a society organized by classical liberalism can lead to human flourishing. He discusses the intellectual history of this philosophy with host Steven Durlauf.

For tens of millions of Americans, working life is characterized by uncertainty and limited recourse. Hours can be plentiful one week and fleeting the next, and often unpredictable, with shifts arranged on short notice, at odd hours, or canceled just as erratically. The prevalence of at-will employment amplifies this insecurity, as the threat of job loss—a potentially devastating blow to both workers and their dependents—is ever-present. Often powerless against corporate practices that prioritize shareholder value over employee welfare, these workers are vulnerable to job insecurity and diminished bargaining power.Today, we examine the unstable state of American work and how we got here. First, host Geoff Wodtke is joined by Jake Rosenfeld, professor and chair of sociology at Washington University in Saint Louis. They trace the history of the American labor movement from its midcentury heyday to its downfall. The consequences of the decline in union membership loom large over the second conversation, with Daniel Schneider, a sociologist and professor at Harvard. He discusses his work exploring the extent to which precarious work has hobbled American households’ personal and economic health.

Sixty years ago, equal pay laws, the women’s movement, and widespread access to contraception ushered in a new era, transforming the lives of American women. In the years since, women’s place in higher education, the labor market, and wider society has dramatically expanded. American women live with the legacy of that progress yet remain hemmed in by its limits.Today, we present two conversations that examine the past and present of gender inequality in America. First, we are joined by economic historian Martha Bailey, the Director of UCLA's California Center for Population Research (CCPR), to discuss the outcomes of War On Poverty programs and the rise of contraception use. Later, host Geoff Wodtke speaks with sociologist Natasha Quadlin, associate professor at UCLA and fellow of the CCPR. They dissect a particularly vexing aspect of contemporary gender inequality: that women now outnumber men on college campuses, yet still face unique obstacles when they enter the job market.

In the United States, meritocracy looms large. Proponents argue that one should earn wealth and prestige through hard work, intelligence, and ability. However, any defender of meritocracy should contend with its shortcomings. Lauren Rivera is the Peter G. Peterson Chair in Corporate Ethics at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School, and the author of Pedigree: How Elite Students Get Elite Jobs, a book-length study of hiring practices at elite banks, law firms, and consulting companies. What she documents are processes that often fail to reward the most deserving candidates and perpetuate existing privileges.In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, Rivera lays out the case against meritocracy as it is currently understood, citing her work in Pedigree as well as other research that shows supposedly meritocratic systems failing women, racial minorities, and people with disabilities.

Thousands of years before the modern era, great thinkers were theorizing about economic inequality. Unequal conditions were a focus of both Plato and Jesus, just as it was for later thinkers like Hobbes, Rousseau and Marx.David Lay Williams is a professor of political science at DePaul University. His new book, “The Greatest of All Plagues: How Economic Inequality Shaped Political Thought from Plato to Marx,” traces some 2,500 years of intellectual history about inequality, drawing surprising new lessons from some of the foremost figures in the Western canon. In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, Williams discusses his findings and what we can still learn from these world-historic thinkers.

As this podcast has highlighted before, cross-disciplinary collaboration can enrich practically any investigation into the nature of inequality. It is hard to find more compelling evidence of this than recent breakthroughs in the study of wealth inequality.Today on the show, we speak to two experts who have made fundamental contributions to this literature, in part by drawing on physics, math, and even Renaissance-era history.Our first guest is Alberto Bisin. Alberto is a professor of economics at New York University. He joins host Steven Durlauf to discuss how models of wealth inequality have evolved over time, as well as how recent models have successfully incorporated tools from the physics literature.Expanding on those insights from physicists, in our second segment, Steven speaks with Jean-Philippe Bouchaud. A physicist and mathematician by training, Jean-Philippe has long been a pioneer of “econophysics,” and his work consistently reveals novel, eye-opening ways economists can supplement their work using physics and math.

College athletics has tumbled into an unpredictable era. Money paid to players for their name, image and likeness has shaken long-held assumptions about what it means to be a college athlete. But although NIL deals have kicked off a new era in college sports, the tensions and conflicts involved are nothing new — nor are they unique to college athletics.Today on the show, we present a conversation that places the debate around paying college athletes into a broader context, drawing on the work of our esteemed panelists. The discussion, which was recorded live on stage earlier this year, features sports analyst Bomani Jones; Princeton Professor of Economics and Stone Center Affiliate Ilyana Kuziemko; Booth Professor of Economics Matthew J. Notowidigdo; and Professor Emeritus at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania Kenneth L. Shropshire. Damon Jones, Stone Center Associate Director and one of our show’s co-hosts, moderates the panel.

One of the most pernicious drivers of inequality in the United States over the past half century has been mass incarceration. Moreover, the consequences of mass incarceration have been borne not just by those held in prisons, but by their families and communities as well.First, Harvard sociologist Christopher Muller traces the historical roots of mass incarceration. He illuminates the close association between incarceration rates and the demand for labor, a relationship that has persisted from the 19th century American South down through the present day.Then, Duke sociologist Hedy Lee discusses her work on the oft-overlooked effects of mass incarceration on the families of incarcerated people. From the mental toll on spouses and children, to the nickel-and-diming of prison commissaries, the conversation catalogs a wide array of unexpected costs brought on by mass imprisonment.

Inequality is rarely static. It can grow or shrink over time. Perhaps no one understands that dynamic better than economist Bhash Mazumder, whose work has been foundational in understanding and measuring intergenerational mobility.In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, Bhash recounts how his research revealed a clearer picture of income mobility in the United States: namely, how previous estimates of mobility were far too rosy. Throughout their discussion, measurement issues abound. They consider typical metrics such as income and wealth, but also less obvious approaches, including surveys of physical and mental health. Last, they discuss how mobility has been shaped by two major events in American history: first, redlining policies that began during the New Deal, and second, urban renewal projects that were sparked by the Great Migration.

Conversations about inequality tend to center on macro-level forces, such as political, economic, and social systems. But today on the show, we present two conversations that examine factors that unfold on a smaller scale: inside people’s everyday domains.In our first segment, host Steven Durlauf interviews fellow host Ariel Kalil, a developmental psychologist at the University of Chicago, about her work on family structure and the ways it can influence inequality. They drill down on the roles extended family members like grandparents play in raising children, how growing up with a single parent appears to have a more pronounced effect on boys, and how economic scarcity can hamper parents’ ability to give attention to their children.After that, Ariel and Steven speak with Mesmin Destin, a developmental psychologist at Northwestern. Drawing on research into identify formation, including the damaging effects of stereotype threat, Mesmin’s work explores identity-based motivation. The group considers various applications of this concept and how it may help alleviate inequality, including interventions that can help young people develop positive beliefs that are specific to their background and the benefits peer-to-peer mentorship programs.