What Works

The Nitty Gritty * Why moving to Salt Lake City from San Diego inspired Nailah to start Color Outside — and how the free meetup transformed into the company it is today * How Nailah budgets, markets, and plans retreats — and why she hosts them in places that you wouldn’t normally take a vacation * How she uses private Facebook groups to connect with her people right away, plus her approach to sharing and posting content within it * What’s included in every retreat–including renting out an entire home, hiring a private chef and a photographer, offering unique activities, and more–plus, the pricing strategy Nailah uses to calculate costs–including profit As a new mom and a newcomer to Salt Lake City by way of San Diego, Nailah Blades Wylie sought community and adventure to reconnect with herself. That’s why she founded Color Outside, a meetup-turned-travel company for women of color who are ready to create unapologetic, joy-filled lives through outdoor adventure. In today’s conversation, Nailah shares how she budgets, markets, and plans the retreats and what’s so important about getting out into the wild. If you’ve ever considered running retreats or live events as the core offering of your business model, this is an episode not to miss. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. The evolution of Color Outside from a free meetup to an adventure company “I realized that hiking, exploring, kayaking and being out in the wild helped me to really reconnect with that part of myself that I was missing. My mind stopped racing. I was able to think through things more. I got a broader perspective on what was going on in my life… and I thought: other women need this.” — Nailah Blades Wylie As a new mom and a new resident of Salt Lake City, Utah, Nailah felt disconnected from herself — and from a community. She craved getting into nature and she needed to be around other women going through the same thing. Initially, Color Outside started as a free meetup group. She organized hikes for women of color to come together and explore this new place she called home. As Nailah continued to host meetups out in the wild, she realized just how much she enjoyed it. With a background in life and business coaching, she easily connected with other women on a deep level. In this episode, Nailah talks about a hike that confirmed this for her. As she and another woman powered through the woods, the woman shared that she was in a job she hated — and that she wanted to be a writer instead. For the remainder of their time together, they mapped out a plan for her to start exploring this new life path as a writer… and by the end of the day, the woman felt so much better because she had a plan to research and implement. That’s when Nailah knew that Color Outside could be so much more than a meetup group. It could be an opportunity for life and business transformation — and a place where women of color could feel — and experience — unapologetic joy, one of Nailah’s biggest values for Color Outside. Prioritizing and infusing unapologetic joy into everything “Expressing our joy and being unapologetic about it is revolutionary, especially for women of color. It’s something that’s not a given for us. We have to fight against the stereotype of the angry Black woman or the spicy Latina. Just showing up and taking up that space is huge: it ripples throughout our community and the entire world.” — Nailah Blades Wylie Unapologetic joy: even thinking about the idea feels liberating. ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Beryl runs the Momtography® training program, how she landed on the price point, and how she promotes her teachers once they’ve successfully completed the initial training program * Why Beryl’s first step to licensing her work included hiring Autumn Witt Boyd, an intellectual property lawyer, to legally prep Momtography® for distribution * How she finds qualified people to work with, how many teachers she’s currently working with, and her vision for the future of Momtography® Today’s guest, Beryl Young, returns to the podcast — and this time, she’s sharing everything behind licensing her signature work, Momtography®. So far, Beryl’s licensed twelve teachers, with plans to expand to all 50 states in the U.S. in the future. In this conversation, Beryl talks about how she started Momtography®, how she prepared her content for licensing (including hiring a lawyer!), and what it felt like to transition from the creator to the leader. If you’ve ever considered licensing your work — or want to hear more of the nitty gritty details on how it can work — this episode is for you. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Prepping to license your work “The first step was hiring a lawyer because I hadn’t trademarked the name. I knew that if I was going to percolate this on a national level, that was the first bow I needed to tie up. I also wanted to make sure that all my legal ducks were in a row. I wanted to speak to someone who worked with other licensing programs who could give me guidance.” — Beryl Young Getting your work ready to license is no small feat. Besides creating the content and finding people to train, you also need to ensure your work is legally ready for distributing. How do you protect the integrity of your work? How do you ensure that people don’t steal your idea? Those were some of the questions Beryl had — and why she hired Intellectual property lawyer Autumn Witt Boyd to help her do just that. Together, they parsed out the contracts and trademarks associated with the program as well as non-compete clauses. If you choose to license your signature work, take Beryl’s lead and contact a lawyer to set strong foundations to protect you and your creations. Giving up control to move from creator to leader “I asked myself: can I trust other people with this? I started building my team out over the last 2-3 years and this felt totally different. If somebody teaches this class in a way that’s different than me or in a way that I don’t agree with, am I going to be able to take that manager/CEO role and apply it? Can I let go of control and allow this to happen and allow Momtography® to spread?” — Beryl Young As an infinitely creative individual and the one-woman show behind Momtography® for so long, it was difficult for Beryl to shift identities from creator to leader. But to allow Momtography® to expand, she needed to give up that control… and trust. Giving up that creative control doesn’t mean you give up structure or rules. Instead, Beryl’s implemented a training and coaching program to show her teachers what’s expected. Part of that includes guidelines on what teachers can charge for the classes they teach. While licensing your work requires shifting up to a leadership role, it doesn’t mean that you are divorced from the creative aspect of it. Rather, it means that you’re in a position to set your teachers... ★ Support this podcast ★

 The Nitty Gritty  * What inspired Chris to start building CozyCal, a simple and easy-to-use online scheduling tool for small business owners and solopreneurs * Why Kat Lu decided to leave her healthcare consulting career to work on product development and customer support at CozyCal full-time * How Kat and Chris manage their roles in the company as a couple (and how their backgrounds influence how they operate) * What channels they use to grow CozyCal including the WordPress Plugin Directory, webinars, podcasts, and affiliate programs * Why they use Intercom over email for real-time feedback and communication with their users — and how that informs their development process Kat Lu and Chris Tan never set out to build a SaaS company… but when a friend needed an easy way to schedule appointments online for her naturopathic practice, Chris decided to develop a minimalist calendar to automate the process for her. That service is now CozyCal, a simple-to-use online scheduler, that helps users generate leads and grow faster. After seven months of working on the product part-time, they decided to go all in. Kat left her job in healthcare consulting to become CozyCal’s product and customer support manager while Chris continued to build out requested features as the head (and only!) developer. In this episode, Kat and Chris shed light on what their product development process looks like, what it’s like to work together as a couple, and all the interesting ways they market and promote CozyCal. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. How they use Intercom for onboarding and real-time customer support “Intercom made a huge difference for us. Prior to that, we used Zendesk and it’s a more passive channel of communication between us and the customers. We have to wait for them to send an email to us and then we send an email back. There is no real time communication. With Intercom, we’re able to talk to users in real time and gather feedback.” — Kat Lu Collecting user feedback is essential for SaaS companies like CozyCal. Customers who use the product every day know the product well, then share their ideas to optimize and improve it. That’s why Kat and Chris recently switched from the email helpdesk tool, Zendesk, over to Intercom. Intercom makes it dead simple to communicate with customers in real time and collect feedback. In fact, the pair joke that they answer customer requests faster than they respond to each other’s text messages. Another feature they love, Kat says, is Intercom’s onboarding campaign feature. So far, they’ve used it to auto-send messages throughout a new user trial period. “It really makes a huge difference to us,” she adds. Here’s an example of how a 10-day onboarding campaign works: * Day 1: Welcome message in app and email * Day 2: Examples of how other people use CozyCal * Day 5: Reminder of additional features, like payment and Zapier integrations * Day 9: Prompt user to upgrade to the Pro Plan  As you can see, they strategically educate users over a period of time in accordance with the trial — and they do it all from Intercom. Using the WordPress plugin directory to market and grow CozyCal’s user base “One of the terms of being in the WordPress plugin directory is that, if you’re selling a SaaS, you need a freemium plan. That’s one thing that’s tricky. The people who come in through WordPress may not be the easiest to convert — but just having that... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Jacquette uses different themes every month to inform the activities and questions she poses during her monthly dinner series, The Comfort Circle™ * Why Jacquette increased the event pricing from $75 to $150 per person and what went into the decision to host the dinner in the same restaurant month after month * How the dinner series works into her larger business model — and why she’ll be offering self-hosted dinners as well as firm-hosted ones * What’s the future of The Comfort Circle™? Jacquette says that it might include retreats Financial behaviorist Jacquette Timmons helps people talk about uncomfortable things. One of the ways she does that is through The Comfort Circle™, an intimate gathering where she walks her guests through curated topics about money and life over a three-course meal. In this episode of What Works, Jacquette shares her perspective on discomfort and why it’s crucial to success, how she uses different topics to curate The Comfort Circle™ experience, and where this in-person event fits into her business model. If you’re a coach or consultant and you’re looking for new ways to approach your business model, this episode is for you. And even if you aren’t, Jacquette’s stories and experience provide insights into pricing a service and leaning into discomfort: two essential skills that every entrepreneur needs. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Why an in-person dinner on money and life? “My clients can talk about sex with their friends. But they can’t talk about money because there isn’t an environment where people feel that they can be vulnerable.” — Jacquette Timmons It was obvious to Jacquette: people need safe spaces to have difficult conversations. Initially, Jacquette considered a traveling conference that would pop-up in several U.S. cities. But she realized that it required too many resources. Instead, she decided to think smaller and more intimate… and that’s where the idea for The Comfort Circle™ came. The dinner series, which started in January 2017 in New York, provided a space for real talk around money and fit within her business vision while suiting Jacquette’s natural inclination to connect in person. “I know live events are powerful,” she says. “I know I show up powerfully and I connect well with people that way.” Jacquette consistently hosts The Comfort Circle in the same restaurant for a small group. She says the max is twelve guests because her intent was always to keep the dinners intimate. How The Comfort Circle™ fits into her larger business model “The dinner is a lead generation vehicle. It’s an opportunity to get to know me and my approach. Some of them convert into coaching clients. Not every dinner results in immediate conversion or a conversion to a four figure coaching engagement but that does happen.” — Jacquette Timmons Jacquette uses the monthly dinner series as a way to connect with potential clients — both personal and corporate. “I already do financial workshops for corporations,” she explains, “but there are times when they don’t want to do the same old thing. This is a way of doing something different.” Different indeed! For example, a law firm hired her to host a customized dinner for 40 people. And instead of charging the typical $150/per person, the firm paid her as a speaker. “I now think of this as there’s a self-hosted version of the dinners and there’s the firm-hosted dinners, which I’m hoping will gain some traction,” Jacquette adds. Besides strategically using the dinners as a lead generation exp... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * The red-yellow-green system Jess Ostroff and the Don’t Panic Management team apply to every potential new client relationship and new hire to help them take the emotion out of it, particularly when it’s not the right fit * What Jess does if a potential client isn’t ready for their services yet, like helping them systematize their business so they’re ready for an assistant in the future * Why Jess chose to only hire United States-based and college-educated virtual assistants This week’s guest is Jess Ostroff, founder and Director of Calm at Don’t Panic Management, a people-first virtual assistant agency founded in 2011. In addition to running the Don’t Panic team, she’s also a speaker and author of Panic Proof: How the Right Virtual Assistant Can Save Your Sanity and Grow Your Business. In this episode, Jess shares the process she uses to vet new clients and new hires, plus how she operationalizes red flags to help her identify make-or-break situations using a red-yellow-green system. For Jess, this system helps her make choices that are informed by both her gut reaction as well as objective facts. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Operationalizing red flags “It’s not just feeling. That’s why we have this red-yellow-green system. I might say: Sally is so nice and she really needs our help. And Jen, my colleague, will say: yes, but did you see those 10 red flags? We gave her a yellow and now she’s a red. She’s not a good fit for us. It makes it easier for me to say no with objective ranking factors in place.” — Jess Ostroff How many times have you said yes to a new client when you should have said no? Maybe the client needed more than what you offered but you felt bad or felt like you should say yes simply because you knew you could help them (and you needed the work.) Whatever the situation, Jess’ method for systematizing red flags with new clients is key for looking through an objective lens rather than a rose-colored one. “I like to start out by feeling what I’m feeling,” says Jess. “But then I like to fact-check that against that everything else I have in terms of information.” Here’s a real-life example. The beginning of a new relationship with a client starts with a general form on Jess’ website. Once they receive that email, they apply the red-yellow-green system immediately. They only move forward with people who pass with a yellow or green. Here’s what this looks like: * Red is a hard no. If the individual provides no information about their business in their initial email or there are other indications that they aren’t a good fit, they don’t move forward. * Yellow is a maybe. In this situation, Jess would need to gather more information. She might ask them to fill out a pre-call form to get a feel for their experience working with assistants, plus what their needs are. * Green is a yes. These individuals are self-aware, very organized, and very communicative. It’s obvious that they’re ready for the help and they have a system for bringing on an assistant with clear tasks and expectations. But the red-yellow-green system doesn’t stop at the intake form: it’s used at every additional step, including phone calls, to ensure it’s a good fit for everyone. “If it’s a red, I’ll say: you know what, I don’t think you’re ready or the right fit,” Jess says, “and I’ll point them in another direction.” Finding and working with clients that are the perfect fit ★ Support this podcast ★

When I got married 11 years ago, I was depressed, ashamed, and feeling like I had no opportunities left — in the way only a 25-year-old can feel. I had always planned to keep my maiden name, which was Seefeldt, but I also planned to be a successful academic with a published work or two under my belt by the time I got married. Instead, I was a grad school drop out working as a retail manager earning less than $30,000 per year. When I met my husband, I was so depressed that I hadn’t been able to eat solid food in about a week. My weight had plummeted and, instead of a solid size 8 and 145 pounds as I’d been most of my life, I was struggling to keep my size 0 pants on my boney frame. I was a complete mess. Marrying my husband — in my tortured mind — seemed like the only solid opportunity I had left. Of course, when you’re that depressed and unwell, making the decision to get married is never a good one. You could be marrying the best person on earth, even the best possible match for you, and you’d be in trouble. But marry I did. I was pregnant — by choice and plan but, again, after a life-to-that-point of not wanting children — within 3 months. While pregnant with my daughter, I was put on Zoloft in an attempt to quell the early symptoms of prenatal depression. It worked beautifully. The medication took the edge off and helped me to see new possibilities. I started to feel more in control, more confident, and more capable again. This state of mind helped me make room for starting a small business — the business that has grown into CoCommercial. I started doing things that made me feel like me again — writing, reading, and thinking. At the same time, it became clear that my marriage was just not going to work. It was a rough time and I didn’t handle it very maturely — but eventually, we made the mutual decision to split up. This was a really positive step in the right direction, even if it caused some logistical difficulties initially. One such difficulty was realizing that I had started to build a brand and a reputation with a name that didn’t feel like my own — Gentile. I considered changing it as we finalized our divorce but going back to Seefeldt seemed like a domain name nightmare and I wasn’t creative enough come up with something on my own! That was then. This is now. When I created my 2018 goal list, I put changing my last name on it — along with climbing a V5-graded boulder problem (done), doing 10 unassisted pull-ups (I’m at 6), running a sub-30-minute 5k (I did 28:18 last month), and hiking the Highline Trail in Glacier National Park (on the schedule). Even if my long-time partner and I weren’t going to get married, I was going to change my name to something else. Well, we are getting married in 2 weeks and, luckily, marriage makes the paperwork a little easier. We toyed with the idea of both of use changing our names but, in the end, I decided on simplicity and doing — for the second — the decidedly un-modern thing of taking his last name. Starting June 28, I’ll begin the transition to calling myself Tara McMullin. Personally, this was an easy decision. Professionally, it causes me anxiety. I’ve spent the last decade building name recognition, credibility, and a reputation as Tara Gentile. I’ve done podcast interviews, spoken at events, been a featured expert, written books, and been a 

The Nitty Gritty * Jaime’s lessons from hiring virtual assistants in the Philippines — and why she eventually hired an employee local to her * How Jaime and her team use Asana to manage projects and assign tasks * What books and tools Jaime uses to track employee time — and how she uses that as a tool to ensure employees are doing what they love with their time * Hear more about Jaime’s approach to the not-so-fun aspect of running a business: firing employees * The difference between an owner and an operator — yet how crucial they are to each other’s success Jaime Masters is a business coach and host of the Eventual Millionaire blog and the going-on-seven-years podcast series. In this episode of What Works, Jaime walks us through her process for hiring and keeping employees happy. She also shares her tactics for firing underperforming employees in a fair and diplomatic way. Curious about the resources that Jaime mentions on this episode? You can find them all at this link! We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. When hiring an employee is good for business “Before I was trying to hide from the responsibility [of having employees] because I had a bad experience. But it made me understand how important it is to not do everything yourself. I thought I was good at everything but my executive assistant was good at so many other things than me. Letting go made a huge different in my sanity. I could double myself.” — Jaime Masters Before Jaime hired her first employee, she tried working with virtual assistants from the Philippines. Jaime was afraid to hire an employee because of negative experiences in the past — and she thought that a V.A. would meet her business needs. But a coach she worked with told her an employee is a good thing. “You’ll be a better business owner because you have that responsibility,” they said. Jaime took that to heart and hired her first employee: an executive assistant. It turns out Jaime’s coach was right: not only did hiring an employee force Jaime to show up on time — it also made her more dedicated to her work. “It made me put roots down and say: okay, we’re doing this!” she says. Today, Jaime employs four full-time employees: an operator, a full-time virtual assistant, a technician who specializes in Infusionsoft, and a personal assistant. She also works with many contractors, including ghost writers, copywriters, and podcast editors. An overlooked reason why tracking employee time is a good thing “The goal is to level up the things that they do best so that they can feel in flow and love their job.” — Jaime Masters In most jobs, tracking time and tasks is a way to keep employees accountable. But in Jaime’s world, she uses time tracking not only to see what employees are spending their time on — but also to ensure they’re spending time on the things that they love. If employees spend more time on things they’re naturally good at, they’re happier and more productive. That’s what Jaime’s seen with her team by putting this practice into place. And it’s super simple: they use the RescueTime time management software. Taking the emotion out of firing underperforming employees “I had to put something in place on the firing side so that I could separate it from my emotions because I want to help everybody and I hate firing people. Everybody’s probably heard that you want to be slow to hire and quick to fire. ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Lauren and Jason Pak, cofounders of Achieve Fitness, use their Instagram to educate and inspire their audience — and why they chose Instagram as Achieve Fitness’ main marketing platform * What their weekly social media schedule looks like and how they plan, create, and edit that content * How the first four years of business helped the duo master the day-to-day operations and why they now feel confident to delegate to team members * What their strategy for hiring new team members looks like and how they infuse empathy and kindness into everything they do, including weekly team meetings Lauren and Jason Pak are the cofounders of Achieve Fitness, a gym based in Boston, Massachusetts. While personal fitness is what they do, their why is even more compelling. This husband-wife team set out to change the industry: they want to make the fitness industry a more approachable and positive place to be. While the pair got into personal training by accident in 2007, their approach to growing their business is anything but accidental. They’re extremely intentional about their core values and building that into everything they do at Achieve Fitness, from planning and creating Instagram posts to hiring new coaches. Listen to the entire episode to hear more from the Paks and definitely check out their 5 Year Business Anniversary video on YouTube to see their story in action. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Translating your core values into your social media content “It’s our mission not just to change our gym and our area but we really want to change the way that the fitness industry approaches helping people. We felt like, especially on social media, a lot of what happens is trainers trying to show off what they could do in order to impress other people. What was actually happening was they were intimidating other people.” — Lauren Pak Lauren and Jason were frustrated by the fitness industry. To them, it felt unapproachable and inaccessible — and they saw that same theme extend to social media. The majority of posts that they saw were trainers showing off — and in a way, they felt, making fitness intimidating for others. When it came to crafting their own social media presence, they decided to do things differently and made it easier for people to feel that being healthy and fit was possible for them. “We really had to take a step back and say: are we doing this for other coaches? Or are we doing this to make a positive impact on the industry? That means we need to simplify things and make it much more approachable and much more accessible,” Jason said. Planning a weekly social media strategy “We’re spending about 15-20 hours on social media creation so it’s pretty much a part-time job. We were only recently able to get involved with it since we were able to develop a really strong team at the gym.” — Jason Pak For the first four years of business, Jason and Lauren were deep into the day-to-day necessities. But now that they’ve hired out some of those responsibilities, they have more time to translate their vision into Instagram content that attracts a worldwide audience. You can see their entire Instagram feed by clicking here. At the heart of what they post is the desire to educate people. They schedule in a weekly meeting where they plan the content for the week, including taking photos and videos. Then, they post videos and demos, with a focus on proper form, ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Sarah Bray, entrepreneur, author, and digital strategist, transitioned from working exclusively for herself to joining the smart and passionate team at &yet, a design and development consultancy * What it means to be an intrapreneur in the modern creative world — and what drew Sarah to the &yet team * How to fuel your self-confidence, especially if you’re moving from the entrepreneurship world to a team culture * Why Sarah and the &yet team create resources, like Leadershippy, that serve the company culture as well as the public to inspire, educate, and support them on their work/life journey Have you ever felt that you could never work for someone else, other than yourself? Sarah Bray, entrepreneur, author, and digital strategist, felt the same. That is: until she saw how she could give more life to her ideas by working on a team. Despite working independently for years, today, Sarah works as the Chief of Strategy at &yet, a design and development consultancy based out of Richland, Washington, that centers their work on possibility and people.. Listen to this inspiring episode of What Works to hear more from Sarah about her transition from working solo to working in tech. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Tapping into your confidence as you transition from entrepreneurship to intrapreneurship “My confidence in what I could do and what I could bring came from those experiences and that validation. I was at a point in my growth that I didn’t have to seek out those people. I never had to sell my ideas to anyone because they’d been reading my work for a long time and they knew who I was.” — Sarah Bray The digital entrepreneurship world and the tech world are similar in many ways. Culturally, they’re both forward thinking and quick moving. There isn’t much bureaucracy (hopefully!) — autonomy and bold ideas are welcome. But the big difference between the online business world and the tech world is that the people who work within each realm don’t cross paths often. As Sarah shares, her new coworkers at &yet weren’t familiar with her digital work, besides her business partner Adam. But it didn’t matter because Sarah knew she created quality work… and she used that confidence to push forward from running solo to joining forces with others. If you’re considering making the jump from growing your own business to working for someone else, consider: what do you do really well? How is what you do well served by pivoting to a team-based environment? And how does this shift serve you personally and professionally? Embracing frustration to fuel your work “Frustration is the most amazing thing. Anytime there’s something I’m annoyed about or that’s driving me crazy, that’s the feeling that I know my own limitations well… and that I really need to be working with other people to move my ideas farther than I’m able to take them.” — Sarah Bray Something I love about &yet’s company culture is that they fully embrace the idea of possibility. But not as a grandiose vision that doesn’t feel grounded in reality. Instead, it’s at the heart of everything they do and something they highlight on their website’s homepage. Possibility is no doubt something that Sarah embraces in her life, too. If she didn’t, would she have considered working for someone else? Would she have believed that working with others could make more of her ideas come to life than w... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Cathy and her songwriting agency, Catch the Moon Music, manage music inquiries and how they close deals * Hear all the details on Mochas and Music, Cathy’s unique way of putting her music in the hands of music supervisors (hint: it worked!) * Why she uses live events to bring together songwriters and music supervisors together in one room, plus why she started a course for songwriters * How she turns outreach on its head by approaching clients in a way that’s authentic to her, and equally important, valuable to them On this week’s episode, we talked with Cathy Heller, songwriter and President of Catch The Moon Music, a songwriting agency for T.V., ads, and film based out of Los Angeles. In our conversation, she shares where her love of music stems from, how she used closed doors as an opportunity to create her own path, and why she’s now offering courses for other songwriters. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Using “no” as a tool to uncover your strengths “I believe that if it is right and the world is saying yes, then there’s enough room. But you need the courage to try and you might be told no. If you’re told no enough times, maybe you need to realize that you’re meant to be on the other side. You’re just really great at identifying great music so you should be the one choosing the songs.” — Cathy Heller When Cathy first pursued her music career, she wanted to be a singer. She didn’t anticipate songwriting as her chosen field — but when she went to Los Angeles and she heard no enough times, she realized that she didn’t need to be the singer. Instead, she could be the one writing the songs. That moment transformed her career from singer to songwriter and ultimately she founded Catch The Moon Music, a boutique music licensing company. Today, her clients include global corporation like Coca Cola and McDonald’s as well as Netflix, Crate and Barrel, and Disney. As Cathy mentions, sometimes when you hear no enough, it’s not the wisest choice to keep pushing through to prove a point. Sometimes those no’s are really a window, showing you different opportunities that might suit your talents better. Radical empathy is the tool for solving other people’s problems “The difference between a hobby and a business, at its core, is radical amounts of empathy. If anybody wants to make money, somebody else is going to give you that money, so we have to spend a lot of time anticipating other people’s needs.” — Cathy Heller At the core of Cathy’s work is curiosity. “What else can I create with my two hands that is going to serve my audience,” she asks. Her method includes asking the music supervisors who are choosing music what they need. Not only that but she’s always looking at what they’re already using in their T.V. shows and ad placements, then reverse engineers songs from what she’s learned to anticipate their needs. Think about your own business: how can you embrace radical empathy and put yourself in your customers shoes? How can you start to anticipate what your clients and customers need? Finding what is authentically you… and what’s valuable to others “Every person has their thing and when it’s expressed, it makes the world brighter and better. Every person can find a way to make it a living but it takes some introspection, it takes some exploring, and it takes some start and stops because sometimes we gotta try things to figure out what works and what doesn’t. We have to be willing to put in the quest.”  — Cathy Heller Even after taking a break from the music world for two year... ★ Support this podcast ★