Beyond Organic Wine

I’m excited to introduce another incredible and relatively new Quebec winery, Domaine Oak Hill… and I love that it was named for a tree, and I met that tree and it is incredible… and worthy of having a winery named after it. I’ll even have a photo of Maxime and my guest and the owner of Oak Hill, Louise Macdonald, standing under and dwarfed by the oak. Louise, with her partner Sylvain Lalonde, farm Oak Hill biodynamically and make zero-zero wines from all hybrid grapes. Louise makes two versions of wine from the Petite Pearl grape that were the best that I’ve ever tasted. There’s some great extra audio that I’ll be putting on Patreon for subscribers where she talks about how she makes one of them. Enjoy this live recording of a couple of Quebecois who stir equisetum prep with a hockey stick, think holistically about their winegrowing, and make some of the finest biodynamic wine by adding nothing and taking nothing away from what their Oak Hill gives them. https://www.domaineoakhill.vin/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks!  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

I’m so excited to bring you this special series on Quebec wine over the next few weeks, and I think you’ll soon realize why. Quebec might be 25 years ahead of most of the wine world. The innovation, adaptative strategies, and ecological approach to expressing something unique about their land, sets an example of the path forward for dominant wine culture. But the one thing you can’t hear on a podcast is the quality of the wine. So let me tell you: It’s fantastic. I had multiple best-I’ve-ever-had versions of several grape varieties, and tasted incredible renditions of classic styles with new cultivars as well as mouth-watering brand new styles of wine born of the unique qualities of the grapes that the Quebecois have embraced to be able to grow beyond organically in their climate. So let’s start the way we should start any momentous occasion… with bubbles! The first stop on my first day in Canada was Domaine Bergeville where I got to talk with Marc Théberge, the co-owner and winemaker. Marc was sun-kissed with a bright farmers tan peeking out from under his t-shirt as he greeted us in front of his tasting room. This is not someone who farms or makes wine by work, but a true vigneron with hands-on at every step in the process who, with his partner Eve, started saving in their youth to be able to finally establish Domaine Bergeville with a goal to make the best sparkling wine in Quebec. I think they might be doing it, and they’re doing it using organic and biodynamically certified farming with hybrid grapes.https://domainebergeville.ca/en/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks!  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

My guest is Laura Barrett, and she’s been the winemaker at Clif Family winery in Napa for over 10 years. I met Laura when she was on a panel I moderated for Napa Green earlier this year. She’s got some really great things to say about working for a B corp and the farming they do at Clif Family… which has been organic from the beginning and is now introducing regenerative practices.None of that is out of the ordinary for me, but then… the majority of the interview is a technical, step-by-step discussion of the process of making a top tier Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. If you haven’t been listening to the podcast you might not know that Cabernet has been my primary example of global monoculture run amok, and that Napa Valley represents the epicenter of a problematic dominant vinifera-culture in the Americas to me.Having said all that, there are a few other perspectives that I’d like to acknowledge. First, Cabernet Sauvignon is just a grape variety. It’s not its fault that some humans have fetishized it and planted it everywhere. And, to be honest, it’s a pretty sturdy grape as far as vinifera goes. It’s not too disease prone, not too finicky, and can take some weather extremes and still produce tasty grapes. And dammit, it can make some pretty delicious wine too. I mean there’s a reason it’s the second most planted grape on earth. What it represents doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate its positive qualities. The same is true of the idyllic Napa Valley region. It’s beauty and desirability are why it has become such an unaffordable place to grow and make wine for most people besides the very wealthiest.Also, this episode is not about natural winemaking. Instead, we explore what I would consider to be the epitome of spare-no-expense technical winemaking today in 2025. We’re talking optical sorters, glycol jacketed temperature controlled tanks, programmed pump-overs, ML inoculations, and the whole shebang… including Jesus juice. Though I might not opt to make my wine this way, the process fascinates me in both a journalistic and historic way. And Laura readily admits that this is just one of many ways to make a wine… it just happens to be the current industry standard for some of the highest priced wines in the world.  And Laura shares some really practical technical winemaking knowledge and tools that could help or inspire you no matter how you make your wine.The truth is that I care very little about how someone makes their wine. What you do in the cellar is a personal and philosophical choice, or sometimes a logistical or economic choice, but it doesn’t really impact me. I can choose to drink your wine or not. This is why I don’t often record winemaking episodes. On the other hand, I care very deeply about how you grow your wine. What you do in the vineyard is an environmental choice with global impacts, and I can’t opt out of your treatment of the earth. We’re all on the same space-boat.So I’m really glad to feature wineries like Clif Family, who are farming in a way that protects and enhances the health of the earth, while also taking care of their employees and community.  https://www.cliffamily.com/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Christian Cain does contract grazing for vineyards and orchards in Northern California with sheep and goats with his company Perennial Grazing.“We are members of natural communities: what we do to them, we do to ourselves. Only by nurturing them can we nurture ourselves. Palates link cultures with landscapes and moderating the impacts of palates on human and environmental health will require changes in the kinds of foods [and wines!] we produce and consume…”That’s Fred Provenza and others from the article titled “Is Grassfed Meat and Dairy Better for Human and Environmental Health?” I love that statement that “palates link cultures with landscapes”In this episode I speak with contract grazer Christian Cain about the work that he does with his company Perennial Grazing in Northern California. You’ll discover, as I did, that Christian is a very thoughtful person who was inspired by Masanobu Fukuoka and Alan Savory, among others. So we discuss not only the practical considerations that will be very valuable everyone who is planning or considering working with a contract grazer, but also we dig into how regeneration of a landscape with well managed animals actually works. What should you expect when working with a contract grazer? How much does it cost? Will my vineyard benefit from grazing? Christian answers these questions and more. This is packed with juicy insights and important information for anyone who wants to integrate grazing animals in their vineyard or orchard, or for anyone who wants to learn about soil health and how beyond organic, regenerative viticulture translates into more delicious wine. https://www.perennialgrazing.org/Reid Griggs et al:Sources and Assembly of Microbial Communities in Vineyards as a Functional Component of Winegrowing”The microbial ecosystems within vineyards exert critical influences on grapevine health and wine quality.”Here's the completely useless French study on drought tolerance of various varieties of grapevines, used erroneously to suggest hybrids have poor drought tolerance:Quantifying the grapevine xylem embolism resistance spectrum to identify varieties and regions at risk in a future dry climateIf you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

This is part 2 of my interview the Dan Rinke of Art + Science. We get into even more specifics of how he makes his holistic farm of vines and trees and animals work with very little inputs, his lessons and insights from multiple years of running both egg and meat chickens through his vineyard, his experience as an organic transition advisor, and much more. At one point Dan mentions how his orchard planting was influenced by Michael Phillips, and I didn’t want to interrupt the flow during the conversation, but I should mention now that there is a fantastic interview with Michael Phillips in the Beyond Organic Wine library, which I feel very fortunate to have recorded in the year before he died. Check it out if you haven’t, and check out part 1 with Dan Rinke if you haven’t.https://www.artandsciencenw.com/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

This episode is part 1 of a two part episode with Dan Rinke of Art + Science Cidery and Winery in Oregon. The conversation was interrupted by technical difficulties after about 45 minutes, which was plenty of time to get to hear about Dan’s ecological journey with wine, and how his love of winemaking turned him into a crazy beyond organic wine and cider grower and maker. Dan has had a pretty serious career in organic and biodynamic vineyards and cellars in California and Oregon, and he and Kim Hamblin started Art + Science together in 2011. Kim is a fabulous artist, and you’ll see her artwork on their website and labels. The first wine of Dan’s that I tasted was a slightly fizzy, zero-zero, carbonically feremented in amphora field blend of hybrid and vinifera grapes… at a tasting that was otherwise almost entirely Oregon Pinot Noir… so it kinda stood out to me.  Talking to him has been the same kind of experience.https://www.artandsciencenw.com/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

My guest for this episode is Fritz Westover. Fritz, like me, is originally a fellow Pennsylvanian, and he’s going on 3 decades of learning about, working with, and teaching about viticulture. He runs a viticulture consulting business, focused primarily in Texas, Georgia and the US South, and he reaches an international audience through his Virtual Viticulture Academy. And he’s also a fellow podcaster with The Vineyard Underground – a fantastic resource for technical viticulture knowledge presented in an accessible and even entertaining way. And I’ll be a guest on his podcast soon too!The emphasis in this conversation is what to consider when planting a vineyard. Fritz has seen many many vineyard implementations and speaks to the most common mistakes, and the questions you should ask to avoid them. Choosing to grow what’s right for your land as opposed to growing your favorite thing turns out to be really helpful, and of course this leads us to discuss hybrid grapes… which in many places allow for much easier winegrowing with fewer inputs. We discuss several varieties of hybrids common to the southern US because of their tolerance of the fungal and other pressures there, including Pierces Disease. Pierce’s Disease, or Xylella fastidiosa, is in California too, and heading north, so getting to know these varieties of grapes is becoming vitally important for most of the US wine industry.And there’s so much more to this conversation. Fritz is a wealth of knowledge and shares a ton of insights and practical tips for winegrowing. https://www.vineyardundergroundpodcast.com/https://www.virtualviticultureacademy.com/If you like this podcast, please subscribe & leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

My guest for this episode is Rob Schultz. Rob is the vineyard manager for Lemelson Vineyards in Oregon, and farms 130 acres of organic vineyards in the Willamette Valley. Lemelson Vineyards has been certified organic for over 25 years, and has been one of my favorites since I started in wine over 2 decades ago. Rob also happens to be one of the main people responsible for the Organic Winegrowers Network there in Oregon, which led to the historic Organic Winegrowers Conference this spring of 2025.Rob has a droll, straightforward manner that I think belies a passionately thoughtful approach to his relationship with the vineyard ecosystem. Throughout this conversation we’ll be bantering along and then he’ll drop an insight bomb out of the blue that I’m still thinking about now having re-listened to this several times. Some topics that come up include: Spanish language skills should be a requirement for work in wine in the US at least, vine sentience and the domestication of humans, breeding a better baby doll sheep, why Oregon makes the best pinot noir in the world, and much more.https://www.lemelsonvineyards.com/If you like this podcast, please leave a great review. You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

My guest for this episode is Elaine Chukan Brown.Elaine is a writer, speaker, wine educator, and now author of the book The Wines of California. Elaine has been a contributor, columnist, editor, and/or wine reviewer for nearly every wine publication out there, and they co-founded the Diversity in Wine Leadership Forum, and have advised diversity initiatives in multiple countries.In 2019, the Wine Industry Network named Elaine one of the Most Inspiring People in Wine. In 2020, they were awarded Wine Communicator of the Year in the world by IWSC and VinItaly, and they were named a Wine Industry Leader in the North American wine industry by Wine Business Monthly.In 2021, The Hue Society created the Elaine Chukan Brown Award in Wine Education, awarded annually and named for Elaine in recognition of their work in education and their effort to help open the way for others’ success.In 2022, Elaine was nominated for a James Beard Award in Journalism.And this is just a short list of Elaine’s work, honors, and awards.So it should be no surprise that their new book, The Wines of California, is a worthwhile read. But more than that, it presents an overlooked history of wine in the US, and makes it clear how deeply indebted those of us working in wine today are to innumerable unsung people… both past and present.In some structural ways Elaine’s book gives you what you might expect from a book titled The Wines of California – a history of the wine industry here, regions and producers and grape varieties, and the current challenges we’re facing – but Elaine presents the substance that fills in that structure in such a holistic way, contextualizing each event within global and national currents, and telling this story from a perspective that includes all the participants in all of their complexities…so that I found fresh insights, deeper understanding of my own participation in this history, inspiration for action, and even, believe it or not, hope.Don’t be fooled by the title. This is not a ponderous exercise in academic wine writing… this reads like a hot take, as well as helpful reference with up to the minute relevance. You might think of it as a People’s History of the Wines of California crossed with a progressive California wine travel guide. In our conversation we talk about the book of course, but it leads to some really important questions that transcend not only the book, but also wine. Elaine talks about how we are in the midst of a revolution, and I’m finding it really exciting to take this perspective into everything I’m doing with wine. I hope you do too.A big thanks to Napa Green for sponsoring this episode. Don't miss their RISE Climate & Wine Symposium. Get Elaine's book:The Wine's of CaliforniaLearn about Hildegard of BingenYour support is greatly needed and appreciated:You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.Or by donating or taking action at:Beyond Organic Wineor just spread the word... thanks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Wendy McNabb, co-owner of Carolina Heritage Vineyards & Winery, one of the few certified organic wineries on the East Coast, shares her passion for organic winemaking. She dives into the fascinating world of hybrid grapes and the resilient Muscadine, a native variety with unique genetic traits. Wendy discusses the challenges of organic certification and the innovative use of eco-friendly paper bottles for packaging, revolutionizing the wine industry. Discover how these elements come together to create truly special wines in North Carolina.