Humans of Martech

What’s up folks, we’ve got another roundup episode today and we’re talking AI. Before you dismiss this and skip ahead, here's a quick summary of why the excitement around generative AI isn't just hype—it's a sustainable shift.While some may perceive AI to be losing steam, largely due to a surge of grifters in the field, this is not your average trend. In Episode 78, we spoke with Juan Mendoza, CEO of TMW, about why generative AI is distinct. It's not mere hype or a future possibility; generative AI delivers practical value today.Examining Google Trends data for the search term "AI + marketing," we notice a significant surge starting in November 2022, coinciding with the release of ChatGPT. This surge peaked in May 2023 when GPT-4 became mainstream. Normally, you'd expect interest to wane after such a peak, but it has barely dipped. We're currently sitting at a 94/100 search interest, compared to this summer's peak. This suggests a sustained, rather than fleeting, interest in the technology.While nobody has a crystal ball, there's broad agreement that AI is far from making marketing roles obsolete. Instead, it's augmenting the work we do, not replacing it.In an effort to explore further how we can better future proof ourselves, I've asked guests what specific aspects of marketing make it resistant to AI. The insights from these discussions have been fascinating, underscoring the unique value and human touch that marketers bring to the table.Here’s today’s main takeaway: Your real edge in marketing fuses a nuanced understanding of business context, ethics, and human emotion with capabilities like intuition, brand voice and adaptability—areas where AI can sort data but can't match ability to craft compelling stories. AI isn't pushing you aside; it's elevating you to a strategic role—given you focus on AI literacy and maintain human oversight. This isn't a story of human vs. machine; it's about how both can collaborate to tackle complexities too challenging for either to navigate alone.AI is less a replacement and more of a reckoning. It's not coming for us; it's coming for our inefficiencies, our lack of adaptability, and our refusal to evolve. AI is holding up a mirror to the marketing industry, asking us not if we can be replaced, but rather, why we haven't stepped up our game yet. Buckle up; this roundup of experts doesn't just debate the future—it challenges our very role in it.Why AI Can't Fully Replace Human Nuance in Marketing OperationsLet’s start off in Marketing Operations with Mike Rizzo, the founder of MarketingOps.com. We asked him to dive into his view that AI won't be replacing marketing jobs "anytime soon," a point that has some level of ambiguity. The question aimed to uncover what Mike specifically means by "anytime soon" and why he believes that AI won't fully automate the marketing Operations sector in the near future.Mike highlighted the intricacy of marketing operations that he believes will be resistant to full automation. Specifically, he mentioned that marketing across SMBs and enterprises involves nuanced processes. The differentiation between types of leads—MQL, SQL, PQL, and so on—each has its own distinct workflow and architecture. This makes it a highly tailored field, more a craft than a science, and challenging to automate.Mike pointed out that the entire operational architecture, from data movement to notification protocols, is unique to each organization. It's precisely this framework that makes it hard to replicate with AI, regardless of its computational abilities. While he admitted that AI could offer suggestions in optimizing specific metrics or elements, such as lead scoring, Mike emphasized that these technologies serve better as consultants rather than decision-makers.The implementation of martech stacks, according to Mike, is akin to running a product. From understanding the product roadmap to enabling team members, AI can at best serve as a consultation service, streamlining processes but never fully taking over. Each tech stack is tailored to an organization's needs, something that AI, for all its merits, struggles to capture in its full complexity.Mike also confessed to leveraging AI for particular tasks but remains skeptical about its ability to handle the fine-tuning required in the marketing ops and RevOps space. He argued that while AI can assist, it can't replace the distinct, specialized requirements that each marketing operation demands.Key Takeaway: Mike suggests that AI has its uses, but the nuanced, unique nature of marketing operations makes it a field that's resistant to full automation. There's value in human oversight that not even the most advanced AI can replicate.Trust in Data and the Ability to Constrain AI ResponsesWhile AI might have some challenges with the nuances of marketing Ops, AI does have a foothold in some marketing sectors. Boris Jabes, the co-founder and CEO at Census, acknowledged AI’s ability to drive efficiency, especially in advertising. In spaces where "fuzziness" is acceptable, such as Ad Tech, AI already performs exceptionally well. Marketers utilize advanced algorithms in platforms like Google and Facebook to better place their ads, and these platforms are continuously fueled by world-class AI. In these instances, AI isn't just convenient; it's almost imperative for maintaining competitive performance.However, Boris warns that there are areas where AI falls short, specifically in customer interactions that require nuanced understanding and empathy. For example, using AI to answer questions about ADA compliance or other sensitive matters can result in "hallucinations," or incorrect and inappropriate responses. Herein lies a crucial challenge: How do you constrain AI to deliver only appropriate, correct information?Additionally, Boris identifies data trustworthiness as a significant hurdle. AI's performance depends on the quality of data it's trained on. Large enterprises are often hesitant to adopt AI without reliable data, and thus, miss out on its advantages. Conversely, smaller companies are more willing to experiment, but their scale is insufficient to make industry-wide impacts.Despite the challenges, Boris argues that staying away from AI is not an option for today’s marketers. Whether you are aiding the machine with quality data or deciphering how AI can be employed responsibly, there's room for human marketers to provide valuable input and oversight.Key Takeaway: AI has carved out a substantial role in specific sectors of marketing like Ad Tech, but it still has limitations that require human oversight. Trust in data and the ability to constrain AI responses are areas where marketers can add significant value.Marketers Are Future Prompt Thinkers and AI RegulatorsOver the next few years, marketers will be invaluable when it comes to ensuring data integrity and guiding AI's influence. Let's explore how marketing roles might evolve across different verticals. Pratik Desai has some fascinating predictions about the role of marketers. He’s the founder and Chief Architect at 1to1, an agency focused on personalization strategy and implementation.When asked about the limitations preventing AI from taking over the marketing landscape, Pratik dives into the intricacies of how AI operates in different sectors. According to him, AI in marketing can be bifurcated into "Curation AI" and "Generation AI." Curation AI, as the name suggests, curates content and recommendations. Generation AI, a more recent evolution, generates content from scra...

David Chan, Managing Director at Deloitte Digital, talks about the modular evolution of CDPs, the roles of older platforms in martech stack, and the dual-zone approach for effective data strategy. He also discusses composable vs packaged approach for building a CDP, tech debt and resources in CDP implementation, the role of reverse ETL tools in CDPs, idea resolution, promoting Asian American awareness, and finding work-life balance.

What’s up folks, today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Lucie De Antoni, Head of Marketing at Garantme.About LucieBorn and raised in France, Lucie got her start in event management before joining AirPlus International, the financial subsidiary of Lufthansa. At AirPlus she wore both marketing and communications hats, at local and global levelsShe stayed in the travel market moving over to HRS Group, an eComm company focused on hotels distribution where she got a taste of Growth marketingRecently she was Head of Global Marketing at Jenji, one of the leading expense management tools where she managed an international marketing team across various functionsLucie is also a Marketing Consultant working with early stage startups through Station F, the biggest startup incubator in FranceShe’s a mentor at Women in Tech network as well as WILLA supporting women and mixed teamsToday she’s Head of Marketing at Garantme, an insurtech focused on real estate agenciesThe Limits of AI in Taking Over Marketing JobsWhen Lucie was asked about the rapid advancements in AI and the looming question of whether it could entirely replace marketing roles, her answer was a measured one. Yes, AI is making waves in various industries, including marketing. It's great for automation and can handle a variety of tasks that were previously manual and time-consuming. But don't start thinking it's time for marketers to pack up their desks just yet.According to Lucie, the real barrier for AI lies in mimicking human creativity and emotional intelligence. Marketing isn't just about numbers and algorithms; it's also about connecting with people on an emotional level. You're telling stories, crafting narratives, and essentially understanding what makes your audience tick. And that's where AI falls short. As of now, AI lacks the ability to truly understand human emotions and to use that understanding to create compelling stories or campaigns.Lucie emphasized that this limitation is actually good news for marketers. It means that while some tasks might become automated, the core of what makes marketing genuinely effective—the human touch—is something that AI can't replicate yet. In her view, this complex blend of creativity and emotional insight is why marketers are still very much needed in the business landscape.Key Takeaway: AI can automate and streamline a lot, but it can't replicate human creativity and emotional intelligence. This limitation is less a setback and more a reaffirmation: the essential skills marketers bring are irreplaceable.The Future of AI in SEO and Content CreationWhen asked about new categories or areas in martech that excite her due to AI advancements, Lucie got straight to the point—SEO and content creation are the game-changers. Not just because they're trendy, but because they've been persistent challenges for marketers across industries, whether you're a startup or an enterprise. Lucie candidly shared her experience with SEO; it's a field where you think you've finally cracked the code, only to find out months later that your results are still lackluster for the amount of effort you've poured in.This is where AI, particularly natural language processing, is starting to rewrite the rules. According to Lucie, it's the technology's ability to produce high-quality, relevant, and personalized content at scale that's truly groundbreaking. Teams can now churn out market-matching content without the human resource bottleneck. It doesn't replace the human touch, but it does elevate it, allowing teams to focus more on strategy than menial tasks.But it's not just about churning out content. Lucie emphasized the role of AI in data-driven decision-making. With AI-powered tools, you're not just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You can now conduct market research, adapt your content strategy, and even adjust your editorial line. This is particularly invaluable in SEO, a field that's not just about numbers but also about understanding market dynamics, content quality, and the right toolsets.Lucie also made an interesting comparison between SEO and SEA/SEM. While SCA is primarily about numbers and budgets, SEO requires a more nuanced approach. It's not just what your competition is doing; it's also about the content you create and the tools you use. AI is now setting the stage for a much-needed evolution in SEO, enabling teams to be more effective and strategic.Key takeaway: Natural language processing through AI isn't just a 'nice-to-have' feature for your content and SEO strategies. It's become the edge that cuts through the noise, enabling not just automation but actual quality at scale. Forget the manual grind; AI allows you to adapt in real-time, revolutionizing the way you approach SEO from a problem to be solved to a game to be won.Elevating Data Literacy: A Marketer's Roadmap to SuccessWhen asked about the significance of data in today's martech landscape, Lucie doesn't hesitate to emphasize its pivotal role. AI, machine learning, automated lead scoring—none of these buzzwords matter if they're not grounded in solid data. But what does it mean to be truly data-literate in this space? For Lucie, it starts with internal alignment between the team and the overall objectives of the company. It's about asking the right questions, not just to your team but first to yourself. If you can't substantiate your marketing strategies with data, you can't expect to instill a culture of data-driven decision-making.There's no one-size-fits-all approach to data literacy. According to Lucie, the path depends on multiple factors, including the company's structure and the maturity level of the marketing department. Therefore, her first piece of advice for team leaders is straightforward: prove the importance of data-driven decisions to your team by asking the right questions yourself. Once that mindset is in place, the next steps involve setting clear marketing objectives and KPIs that are both specific and measurable.The mission doesn't stop with setting KPIs; it extends to continually scrutinizing them. As Lucie points out, SEO is a prime example where you could have a plethora of KPIs, but what's the point if you're not evaluating their relevance? Data literacy is not a static achievement; it's an ongoing dialogue that requires regularly reviewing and analyzing performance metrics to make real-time decisions that impact your business.Finally, Lucie encourages leaders to maintain an agile approach. A data-informed culture isn't rigid; it's adaptive. When a project takes an unexpected turn, don't be afraid to adjust your KPIs and your strategy. This flexibility not only fosters a data-driven mindset but also becomes a lesson your team will carry into their projects.Key Takeaway: Data literacy isn't about collecting KPIs for the sake of having numbers. It's about purposeful metrics that feed into agile decision-making. Being data-literate means you're not just gathering data, but you're agile enough to adapt your strategies based on that data. It's not a checkbox but an evolving skill, crucial for both individual projects and the overarching company strategy.SQL Skills in Marketing: Luxury or Necessity?When quizzed about whether SQL skills should be a staple in the marketer's skillset, Lucie offers a nuanced view. It's not about everyone on the team turning into SQL pros; it's about fostering specialized expertise. SQL and other data-query languages offer a gateway for some marketers to evolve into a new kind of expert within the team. Why? Because most in-house data teams are often too tied up with f...

What’s up folks, today we’ll be joined by various martech pros sharing their opinions on the topic of warehouse-native martech.The landscape of marketing technology architecture has been undergoing – what you might call – a seismic shift and many don’t even realize it. In this transformation, there’s a remarkable development - warehouse-native marketing technology, an innovative breakthrough that promises to reshape the entire industry for the better, but comes with plenty of questions and skepticism. Here’s today’s main takeaway: As we navigate the potential transformation to warehouse-native martech, the single most critical action is to prioritize achieving high-quality, well-structured data; it's the golden key to unlocking the full potential of these emerging tools and strategies.This episode explores the various facets of warehouse-native martech and its viability, pulling in insights from industry experts, piecing together a comprehensive view of this groundbreaking shift.What are warehouse native martech or connected apps?In Dec 2021, Snowflake introduced a new term, 'connected applications'. Unlike traditional managed SaaS applications, connected applications process data on the customers' data warehouse, giving customers control over their data Benefits include preventing data silos, removing API integration backlog, enabling custom analytics, upholding data governance policies, improving SaaS performance, and facilitating actionable reportingIn other words, instead of making a copy of your DWH like most CDPs ad MAPs do today, everything lives on top of the DWH and you don’t have to pay for copying your db.Some companies solving this for product analytics are Rakam, Indicative, and Kubit. Census and Hightouch are also doing this, being warehouse-native activation tools sitting on top of a DWH and don’t store any of your data. Some Messaging companies solving this use case natively on the cloud warehouse are Vero, Messagears, and Castled.Revolutionized Data Handling in Customer Engagement PlatformsIndia Waters currently leads growth and technology partnerships at MessageGears. She explains how her company’s differentiation comes from its unique handling of customer data.Unlike competitors such as Salesforce Marketing Cloud or Oracle, which require a copy of customer data to live within their tool, MessageGears directly taps into modern data warehouses like Snowflake or Google BigQuery. This unique approach is born out of the inefficiency and high costs of older platforms that necessitate copying and moving data into multiple marketing tools.India vividly portrayed the challenge this old approach creates, imagining the confusion and resource consumption of working with out-of-date data across numerous tools. By not having to have a copy of customer data, MessageGears solves this problem for big companies, eliminating waste and creating a more coherent understanding of the customer's journey. Clients like OpenTable, T-Mobile, and Party City can now work with the most up-to-date data, using it as a source of truth for better analytics and customer experiences.Reflecting on how MessageGears had to become thought leaders in this approach, India acknowledged that it took time for the industry to understand and accept this innovative method. But as awareness has grown, the approach is now seen as a logical and necessary step in the evolution of customer data handling.Takeaway: MessageGears' refusal to follow the traditional path of copying customer data into its tools is a game-changer in the world of customer engagement platforms. By plugging directly into modern data warehouses, they've solved a problem that has plagued big companies, enabling them to use the most up-to-date data for insights and experiences. The industry has evolved, and MessageGears is leading the way with an approach that makes sense for today's data-driven world.Rethinking User Database Size Pricing in MartechWhile MG has been around since 2011, more and more startups are waking up to the idea of directly accessing brands’ first-party data instead of relying on cloud data syncs. We also chatted with Arun Thulasidarhan, CEO & Co-founder at Castled.io. They're a warehouse-native customer engagement platform that sits directly on top of cloud data warehouses. Arun and his team set out to disrupt traditional martech to fix some of the fundamental problems as it relates to the significant disconnect between the number of users a company pays to store in their database and the actual value derived from them.He emphasized that having millions of users doesn't necessarily translate to substantial revenue or value, especially for smaller B2C companies. He critically questioned whether traditional pricing models based on user database size were really delivering value for businesses. Arun then went on to explain how Castled.io approaches this differently, choosing a more logical and direct connection between cost and benefit. Unlike other martech firms that charge based on customer numbers, Castled.io bases its pricing on the number of team members using the tool. Arun argues that this is a more accurate reflection of the value a company gets from the service, as more marketers using the tool likely means a more substantial investment in the platform. He also touched on how they handle data look-back periods and the importance of data retention for retargeting and reengagement. With traditional systems, data engineers might have to wait for months, while with Castled.io, the data is readily available in the data warehouse. The integration of data warehousing and marketing tools, according to Arun, is the future of martech pricing – something he sees as a "no-brainer." Takeaway: Traditional martech pricing models have significant inconsistencies, often failing to align the number of customers with the real value obtained. Castled.io challenges this paradigm by pricing their services based on the number of team members using the tool and ensuring that data retention aligns with business needs. This more logical and direct approach may be an essential step forward for the martech industry, promoting fairness and value over mere numbers.Aligning Pricing Metrics with Customer NeedsMessageGears and Castled.io's groundbreaking approach in martech isn't merely an isolated occurrence. It's part of a broader trend that calls for a deliberate rethinking of pricing metrics within the industry. This movement emphasizes the alignment of price with real value and accessibility. It’s worth highlighting the intricacies of selecting the right pricing metric. We spoke with Dan Balcauski, a SaaS pricing expert who highlights that it's not just about being innovative; it's about making choices that truly resonate with customer needs and market demands. Dan delved into the complexities of pricing metrics and how they can be used to either aid or hinder competitive differentiation. Though he admitted that his knowledge of the s...

What’s up folks, today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Tamara Gruzbarg, VP Customer Strategy at ActionIQ – an enterprise Customer Data Platform.Summary: The discussion centered around the nuanced relationship between AI, marketing, and customer data platforms (CDPs). Tamara highlighted the excitement and limitations of AI, emphasizing the irreplaceable role of human creativity and business context. Her insights extended to the advancements in generative AI, the flexible approach of ActionIQ in dealing with CDPs, and the importance of aligning technology with an organization's strategy and capabilities. The conversation provided a rich exploration of the future of AI in marketing and the evolving landscape of CDPs, offering actionable insights that stress the need for human ingenuity and flexibility in today's market.Can AI Replace Everything a Marketer Does?When asked about the recent exhilaration in the marketing world around AI, especially with the emergence of ChatGPT, and the fears and challenges that AI may replace all the functions of a marketer, Tamara expressed both excitement and a clear understanding of the boundaries. She emphasized that although AI has transformative potential, the notion of it replacing everything in marketing is far from reality.Tamara eloquently pointed out that AI has the power to take over menial, repetitive tasks within marketing, thus automating and optimizing several functions. This transition, she noted, will require professionals to acquire new skills to effectively partner with AI, often referred to as "Gen AI."She further illuminated the philosophy of ActionIQ, where AI is seen as a "human in the loop" system. In other words, AI can assist with content generation, but it still needs human guidance. This insight reflects the company's belief that AI doesn't pull ideas out of thin air; it requires a marketer's creativity, tone of voice, and style to guide its output. Without this human collaboration, marketing initiatives risk becoming monotonous and less effective.Using the widely accepted phrase "we need to cut through the noise," Tamara argued that it's even more critical to have a human in the loop with systems like ChatGPT to ensure uniqueness and effectiveness in marketing strategies.In her thoughtful and informed response, Tamara envisioned AI as an extension of existing tools rather than a replacement. She reinforced that building robust models for predictions such as conversion or churn rates necessitates a strong grasp of business context and data structure, something only humans can provide.Takeaway: AI's role in marketing is neither an all-encompassing replacement nor a threat to creative and strategic aspects. Instead, Tamara sees it as a tool for enhancing productivity by automating repetitive tasks and acting as an assistant in content creation. Its success, however, relies on human intelligence and intuition to guide it, maintaining the unique flavor and effectiveness of marketing initiatives. The human element is not only vital but irreplaceable, especially when it comes to cutting through the noise in today's competitive landscape.Machine Learning and Personalized MessagingWhen asked about the real valuable innovations in AI for marketing applications, especially concerning machine learning and natural language processing in the realm of self-optimizing campaigns, Tamara expressed both enthusiasm and caution. She acknowledged the promising nature of the area, reflecting on how the journey began with email service providers (ESPs) optimizing send times to maximize email open rates. This has evolved to include subject line testing, allowing a winning version to reach a larger audience. These components, Tamara explained, are part of a more comprehensive journey towards achieving self-optimizing customer experiences.With the advancements in generative AI, it's now possible to couple micro-segments with the dynamic capabilities of language models. Tamara finds this intersection particularly exciting, yet she maintains a skeptical stance regarding the idea of fully self-optimized journeys. Her perspective as a "human in the loop" proponent leads her to foresee the near to medium future as one where businesses might perceive the journey as self-optimizing, but human involvement will still be essential.Vendors promising self-optimization will require considerable human effort to ensure that these AI-driven journeys not only function properly but also drive the business forward. The allure of using AI to personalize messaging and orchestrating the best message at the perfect time may be strong, but Tamara's insights suggest that we are still on a path where human insight and input are invaluable.Takeaway: The intersection of AI and marketing is an exciting area that promises innovations in self-optimizing campaigns. However, as Tamara explains, the road to complete automation is still a work in progress, and human involvement remains crucial. The blend of AI with human insight can create powerful tools, but reliance solely on technology may not yet be the complete solution for personalized customer experiences.The Synergy of Human Intelligence and Automation in Marketing CampaignsTamara's response to a detailed example of automating campaign creation offers a compelling look into the intricate relationship between human intelligence and automation.The process outlined from another episode with Wyatt Bales begins with humans playing an indispensable role. They're responsible for the creative and strategic aspects, defining the campaign's goals, identifying the ideal journey for the user, and initiating the automation process by creating a ticket in a project management tool. This triggers a generative AI tool, producing drafts that the human team reviews and refines.Tamara highlights the value in this synergy, with the human touch being essential in understanding the nuances of the campaign and reviewing AI-generated content. She firmly believes in automating tasks such as data uploading and report distribution but maintains that the human aspect is irreplaceable in areas that require critical thinking and strategic vision.She further relates this perspective to her own career experience, managing what she terms "human CDP's." Leading teams of highly skilled data professionals, she witnessed firsthand how manual handling of tasks that could be automated often limited their potential. This realization fueled her enthusiasm for the CDP space and led her to her current position.In her view, automation in marketing shouldn't be about completely replacing human roles but rather enhancing them. By automating mundane and repetitive tasks, skilled professionals can focus on more complex, valuable activities that machines can't replicate. Her experience in the field reinforces the belief that the combination of automation with human insight creates a more efficient and focused approach to marketing.Takeaway: Tamara's insights provide a balanced view of the integration of human intelligence and automation in the marketing landscape. By embracing automation for specific tasks, human professionals can focus on strategic and creative roles, driving innovation, and maximizing efficiency. The fusion of human expertise with automation isn't about replacement but rather collaboration, leading to more effective and personalized marketing campaigns.The Hybrid Approach to Customer Data Platforms in ActionIQ<...

What’s folks, today I’m pumped to be joined by Michael Katz, CEO and co-founder at mParticle, the leading independent customer data platform.Summary: In the contentious debate over Packaged and Composable CDPs, Michael delivers a clear-eyed perspective that cuts through the hype. Rejecting the idea that Pacakged CDPs are becoming obsolete, he emphasizes the continued importance of data quality, integrity, and privacy, and he warns against becoming entangled in marketing illusions. He also highlights the need for adaptability, dismissing some of the more pervasive myths in the martech landscape, such as the magic of zero copy data. With strategic acquisitions, mParticle is focusing on intelligence and automation, aiming to be more than just “simple pipes” in data management. Michael’s insights provide a grounded roadmap, focusing on genuine value creation and thoughtful navigation of the complex industry that is Customer Data Platforms.About MichaelMichael got his start as an analyst at Accenture and later focused on customer acquisition and marketing strategy for a mobile content companyHe entered the entrepreneurial world founding interclick in 2005, a data-valuation platform for advertisersHe ran the company as President and took the company public in 2009 and sold to Yahoo in 2011 for $270M He’s been on the Board of Directors for several companies including Adaptly and BrightLineHe’s a volunteer at Southampton Animal ShelterHe’s also a Mentor at TechstarsAfter a year as VP of Optimization and Analytics at Yahoo after his company’s acquisition, Michael took on his second venture, co-founding mParticle in 2013mParticle is a global, remote-first company that provides a real-time AI customer data platform.  They help get the highest quality customer data to any system that marketers or product managers use – ultimately improving customer experiences.  They work with big players and small, fueling the customer success of brands like Paypal, Seatgeek, Venmo, Headspace, Lyft, McDonalds, and Airbnb.Unpacking the 8 Components of Customer Data PlatformsWhen asked about Arpit Choudhury’s enumeration of the eight essential components of Customer Data Platforms (CDPs), Michael’s response was swift and assertive. With an appreciative shoutout to Arpit for articulating the complex aspects of CDPs, he aligned himself with the eight facets laid out in the question.These eight components, according to Michael, indeed compose an end-to-end solution for the first generation of CDPs.  They include:CDI, customer data infra, collect 1st party event data from customers from website and appsETL, data ingestion, extract data from other tools and load it into DWHData Storage/warehousing, store a copy of data collectedIdentity resolution, a solution for tying together a customer’s various interactions with you across multiple platforms and devicesAudience segmentation, drag and drop UIReverse ETL, extract/activate from DWH to other toolsData quality, validity, accuracy, consistency, freshness, completeness… Data governance and privacy compliance, user consent, HIPAA complianceEmphasizing the integrated nature of these components, Michael asserts that the value of the whole system is greater than the sum of the individual parts. He proudly reflects on mParticle’s reputation as a complete CDP and emphasizes that many existing CDPs lack strong stories around data quality and governance.The conversation with Michael reveals his confidence in the synergy that arises when these parts function together. He cautions against skipping any of these steps, underscoring that a weak foundation will undermine the entire system. Speed in data processing should not compromise quality and privacy protection, and mParticle’s holistic approach ensures this balance is maintained.Takeaway: Michael’s insights into the eight essential components of CDPs not only align with industry experts but also highlight the importance of a unified approach. By valuing integration, quality, and consumer privacy, mParticle positions itself as a leading player in the CDP landscape. The wisdom shared by Michael emphasizes that genuine value is derived not merely from the individual elements but from the careful orchestration of all parts into a coherent and resilient system.Debunking the Myths Around Reverse ETL and Composable CDPsReverse ETL and composable CDP proponents assert that the traditional CDP is becoming obsolete and that the future lies in Composable CDPs that leverage modern data warehouses and processes like Reverse ETL. Claiming that existing CDP vendors will have to adapt to this shift or risk becoming irrelevant.Michael’s written extensively about this debate over the years. He argued that product marketing around the composable CDP is just modern day sleight of hand tricks…designed to dupe the buyer. To be fair, mParticle has adapted to the rise of the modern data stack by offering services like data warehouse sync and value-based pricing. Michael highlighted the rise of the Cloud Data Warehouse as an essential system within organizations, but he was quick to emphasize that the real challenges lie in maintaining data quality, integrity, and privacy. As he elaborated, legacy CDP vendors like mParticle deliver value not in the storage of data, but in the movement and activation of it. Michael stressed the importance of going beyond mere data collection to understanding the context and the “why” behind customer behavior.According to Michael, the true value in the CDP space has shifted towards enhancing context, improving understanding, and introducing an insights layer. For mParticle, this has translated into a focus on finding truth and meaning in their data, creating an infinitely optimizing loop. He vehemently argued against reverse ETL, characterizing it as “garbage in, garbage out,” and took aim at what he described as “sleight of hand” tricks in product marketing designed to distract from the real issues.Michael challenged several narratives in the debate, dismissing the importance of zero data copy, the vulnerability of CDPs to security threats, and the notion of faster deployment times leading to sustained value. He warned against getting enticed by aggressive product marketing, stressing that what might appear easy to implement could be hard to maintain.Takeaway: The transformation of CDPs isn’t just about new technologies or marketing tactics but lies in understanding the true needs of customers. With a focus on integrity, context, and sustained value, Michael exposes the fallacies in current debates, emphasizing that real success comes from creating genuine value, not just noise.The Realities of Replacing Traditional CDPs with Reverse ETL ToolsWhen asked about the growing trend where some reverse ETL customers have found ways to replace their traditional Customer Data Platforms (CDP) with reverse ETL tools, Michael acknowledged that this represents only a very narrow subsegment of the market. He expressed a concern that the fragmented “Do It Yourself” approach isn’t alw...

A Two Decade Journey Through the Whirlwind of Tech When asked about her impressive tenure at Acquia and Widen, spanning nearly 20 years, Deanna offered a wealth of insight. Unlike many professionals in the tech industry who frequently switch roles, Deanna has remained at Widen, continuing with the organization even after its acquisition by Acquia. The secret to her long-term commitment, she explained, is the opportunity for growth and the freedom to evolve without stagnation. In search of what she referred to as the 'Goldilocks' of companies, she found the perfect balance at Widen. The organization was large enough to offer learning opportunities and yet small enough to let her make an impact. This was back in 2004, a time when print was still dominant, smartphones and social media were yet to revolutionize the world, and 'martech' hadn't entered the business vocabulary. Deanna was part of a small software team tasked with the transformation of Widen, a pre-press company established in 1948, into a leading player in the software and martech industry.Deanna has been instrumental in the company's journey to becoming a significant provider of SaaS solutions and a force in martech. The excitement of riding the waves of innovation in marketing technology, she admitted, has been a captivating part of her career. Over the past decade, Deanna's focus has shifted to the human element of martech—exploring how people use these technologies, how behaviors intersect with tech growth, and what software vendors can do to support everyday tasks. This focus on the people-centric side of the rapidly advancing martech world has fuelled her passion in recent years.Takeaway: Deanna’s enduring presence at Acquia and Widen is a testament to her adaptability and eagerness for growth. She has navigated through tech revolutions, transforming Widen from a pre-press company into a significant player in the martech world, all the while maintaining a people-centric focus. Her story underlines the significance of seizing opportunities and staying agile in the ever-transforming tech landscape.Unraveling Martech Acronyms: DAM and DXPWhen queried about the confusing array of acronyms in the martech space, Deanna readily acknowledged the "alphabet soup". She then proceeded to shed light on two key terms - DAM (Digital Asset Management) and DXP (Digital Experience Platform). Deanna's enthusiasm for DAM was infectious as she described it as a system that allows organizations to create, manage, and distribute thousands, if not millions, of digital assets for their brands, products, and services. DAM is essential to industries ranging from non-profits and higher education to financial services and hospitality. In essence, any sector that needs to manage a slew of digital files benefits from DAM. The aim is to ensure consistency and reinforce brand management.Next, Deanna turned her attention to the concept of DXP, the digital experience platform. At its heart, a DXP is about combining data and content to craft meaningful user experiences. Key tools like Drupal or WordPress, known as content management systems, come into play here. The process involves weaving together images and data to tailor personalized customer journeys. Machine learning is used to further enhance and scale these experiences across various touchpoints.The discussion highlighted the need for organizations to embrace technologies like DAM and DXP to meet the evolving expectations of their audiences, whether it's web-based interactions or exploring potential frontiers like VR, AR, and metaverses.Takeaway: Acronyms like DAM and DXP are more than just letters—they signify critical aspects of modern martech. DAM helps organizations manage an immense amount of digital content, ensuring brand consistency, while DXP amalgamates data and content to create personalized customer experiences. In the realm of martech, understanding and leveraging such tools is the key to delivering effective digital experiences.Dissecting the Packaged vs Composable Debate in MartechWhen Deanna was asked about the debate between packaged and composable solutions in the martech space, she provided an insightful response. Her viewpoint emphasizes the importance of tailoring solutions to an organization's internal team dynamics and willingness to change.In some cases, Deanna explained, packaged solutions like Acquia's suite of offerings - which includes a content management system (CMS), a hosting platform, a customer data platform (CDP), and a marketing automation platform - might be the best fit. These ready-to-go solutions can provide faster time to value and seamless integration. Yet, Deanna was quick to recognize that not all organizations are poised to change their processes to fit into a pre-bundled solution.For organizations that find it challenging to adjust their processes, Deanna advocated for the flexibility of composable solutions. With these, companies can choose individual point solutions and integrate them into their existing tech stack. This approach allows for customization to suit the unique processes and needs of an organization. It's about making the solutions meet your processes, rather than the other way around.Intriguingly, Deanna highlighted the tension that often exists between IT and marketing teams. She noted how the composable nature of Acquia's offerings helps balance the agility and experimentation desired by marketers with the stability and scalability requirements of IT teams. This balance, Deanna suggests, is essential for successful martech deployment.Takeaway: The debate between packaged and composable solutions in martech is not a one-size-fits-all question. It's about matching the solution to the organization's willingness to change, their unique needs, and the dynamics of their internal teams. A successful martech deployment navigates the delicate balance between the agility of marketers and the stability requirements of IT teams.Composability, Generative AI, and the Customer's VoiceWhen asked about her perspective on the ever-evolving martech trends, Deanna, the SVP of Product at Acquia, embraces both the complexity and the opportunities. This perspective is rooted in her experience with the first martech landscape map by Scott Brinker back in 2011, where only 111 vendors were listed. Now that number has exploded into thousands, driving an invigorating competition.Deanna's viewpoint reflects a healthy attitude towards competition. The fast-paced, diverse landscape ensures that no player, however established, can rest easy. Innovation isn't optional, but essential. If a company, such as Acquia, decides to pause, they risk being left behind. Deanna sees the high-speed evolution in martech as more of an opportunity than a curse. It ensures that companies consistently deliver value to their customers, always striving to stay ahead of the curve. Deanna also touched upon some of the emerging trends in the industry, with a particular emphasis on composability and generative AI. Coming from a software background, Deanna views composability as a new label for the time-tested concept of modularity. This modularity, inherent in Drupal's open CMS, has been embraced by Acquia.While eager to explore trends, Deanna emphasizes the importance of listening to customer pain points. This approach helps her team identify where changes in customer behavior may drive the adoption of new technologies like generative AI. The popularity of AI and machine learning has been simmering for years, but generative AI's advent has sparked a significant culture shift, with tools like ChatGPT becoming mainstream. To stay at the forefront of ...

Summary: Arun clarifies 'warehouse-native' and 'connected' concepts, positioning Castled.io as a flexible solution that caters to specific customer needs. He addresses challenges in traditional martech, such as the disparity between customer base size and value derived, and presents Castled.io's unique solutions like an alternative pricing model and immediate data access. Arun navigates the issues of a warehouse-native approach, providing strategies for handling real-time data and minimizing compute charges. He cautions against seeing warehouse-native adoption as merely an escape from reverse ETL, emphasizing its potential to resolve existing martech problems and enhance functionalities. Arun encourages a positive attitude towards new, complex technologies, recognizing their transformative potential.About ArunArun is a data engineer by trade with over a decade of experience building and scaling systems in the startup ecosystemHe started his career in software engineering roles at Applied Materials, an enterprise semiconductor manufacturer and later MiQ, a programmatic advertising media partnerArun then joined Flipkart, known today as India’s largest e-commerce marketplace with a whopping 150 million customers He then moved to the startup world joining Hevo Data as one of the first tech hires, a No-code ETL Data Pipeline platform that enables companies to consolidate data from multiple softwareIn 2021, Arun moved to San Francisco to co-found his first startup, Castled Data - A warehouse-native customer engagement platform that sits directly on top of cloud data warehousesAlong with his team of founders Arun was selected by YC in the Winter 22 batchFrom Open Source Reverse ETL Tool to Warehouse Native CEPWhen asked about the transformational journey of Castled.io, Arun shed light on the genesis of the company's vision. It was a time when businesses wanted to move their data from warehouses to various tools, yet the market lacked the means to do this efficiently. Recognizing this gap, Arun embarked on the mission to develop an open source, reverse ETL solution. His concept was founded on the idea that no one-size-fits-all tool could cater to the wide range of companies' diverse requirements.This venture brought Castled.io a fair amount of traction, with many companies employing their open source solution in-house, and a growing clientele availing of their cloud-based offering. However, around this time, a critical analysis of the martech landscape provoked a pivot. Arun realized the long-term sustainability of reverse ETL solutions was questionable, especially with the burgeoning concept of warehouse-native apps. Other companies were beginning to develop their own reverse ETL tools.Arun observed that these ETL solutions were not truly designed for data teams but rather marketing growth teams, signaling a limitation in their scope. The need to constantly shift data to different platforms like Intercom was dwindling, given alternative and more efficient methods emerging in the martech ecosystem. In fact, he believed that the popularity of these reverse ETL solutions might begin to wane within a year.The most crucial feedback that inspired the transformation of Castled.io came directly from its target audience – the marketers. They indicated that a reverse ETL solution did not fully resolve their challenges, especially in scenarios where handling large amounts of data became a bottleneck for their existing tools. It became clear that simply copying data from warehouses to another tool wasn't an effective solution.Prompted by these revelations and the rising acceptance of the warehouse-native concept, Arun and his team decided to pivot. They transitioned from being an open-source reverse ETL tool provider to building Castled.io as a solution directly layered on top of data warehouses. This move allowed them to bypass data migration issues and directly cater to the marketers' needs.Takeaway: The journey of Castled.io highlights the importance of remaining adaptable and receptive to market changes and customer feedback. This awareness allowed the company to evolve from being an open-source reverse ETL tool to a robust, warehouse-native solution, directly addressing marketers' challenges. The company's pivot is a testament to strategic foresight and innovation in the martech space.The Similarities of Open vs Closed and Composable vs Packaged CDPsIn the fiery debate around composed versus packaged CDPs, Arun weighed in with his unique viewpoint. He likened the contrast between these two approaches to the difference between open source and closed source systems.From Arun's perspective, the appeal of composable CDPs lies in the flexibility they offer. This format enables innovation on top of the data warehouse, unlike the constraints potentially imposed by a packaged system. If something isn't quite right, with a composable CDP, you're able to add more tables, create more transformations, and even integrate external tools. Arun cited examples like Mutuality and Thing, tools that perform identity resolution on top of the data warehouse. These systems, instead of operating deterministically, utilize fuzzy resolution. They identify rows that may be the same and join them together - an innovative process executed directly within the data warehouse. Such possibilities underscore the value of composable CDPs. Being locked into a closed system inhibits the ability to incorporate these innovations into one's data warehouse, a limitation he finds less appealing. Though there are countless other arguments surrounding this topic, Arun emphasizes this angle as one often overlooked in the broader conversation.Takeaway: In the composable vs. packaged CDP debate, Arun highlights the flexibility and potential for innovation offered by composable CDPs. By likening them to open-source systems, he underscores the opportunities to customize and integrate additional tools directly on top of the data warehouse, an often overlooked yet crucial consideration in the martech space.Unpacking the Definition of Warehouse-Native MartechWhen asked about the varying definitions in the martech space, particularly 'warehouse-native' and 'connected', Arun addressed these terms with a refreshingly pragmatic viewpoint. He observed that while the industry is caught up in different terminologies, often what doesn't fit into these boxes is what the customer actually wants.Arun described his understanding of warehouse-native as akin to the framework offered by Snowflake, where everything runs atop the data. A connected app, in his view, is one that separates compute and data - the data resides in a warehouse, not in the SaaS app, providing the flexibility we've discussed before. The actual computations happen on internal clusters, streamlining operations by removing the need for API integrations, enhancing consistency and security, and reducing data movement.Yet, for Arun, the appeal of warehouse-native martech extends beyond these definitions. The true advantage lies in its potential to transform data into a goldmine of information that can fuel powerful reporting and analytics. The ability to write data back to the data warehouse creates a wealth of opportunities for customers, a feature he deems as a significant boon of connected apps and warehouse-native tech.Despite these perspectives, Arun chooses not to classify Castled.io strictly as a warehouse-native or connected app. Instead, he emphasizes meeting customer needs. For some enterprise customers, the security of not moving data to an external system like Breeze or Iterable is paramount. Here, he sees val...

Summary: The future of CDPs, as envisioned by Tejas, is a more flexible, adaptable data architecture that Hightouch is actively shaping. Hightouch, even without the data collection component, is recognized by some of the largest companies in the world as their go-to CDP. Tejas stresses that the reconciliation of 'truth' in data between marketing and data teams isn't solely a tech or architecture problem; it requires an operational shift and closer collaboration between teams. The conversation serves as an essential guide for businesses seeking to optimize their data use and enhance customer experiences.The Software solutions like Hightouch provide a solid framework to tackle this, but the human element—teamwork, alignment, and communication—remains a key determinant in solving these challenges.From Corporate Travel to Reverse ETL: Teja's Journey Back to DataWhen asked about the journey of reverse ETL's inception at Hightouch, Teja revealed the interesting twists and turns of his entrepreneurial path. His initial venture after leaving Segment wasn't directly into the data sphere. He founded a startup, Carry, in the corporate travel space.However, Teja's departure from Segment wasn't just fueled by an entrepreneurial itch. He had reservations about the future trajectory of Customer Data Platforms (CDP). He didn't fully believe CDPs were set to become the standard for managing customer data across industries. With inklings of impending acquisitions and significant changes in the data industry, he left Segment.Teja then spent about eight to nine months with Carry until the onset of COVID-19. Despite the inherent challenges of the travel industry—low margins, high human operation requirements, price-sensitive customers—Carry was growing. Yet, COVID-19 brought it to a grinding halt.With business metrics falling to zero almost overnight, Teja and his co-founders, Auren and Josh, found an unexpected opportunity. They decided to pivot back to their roots in the data industry, tapping into their old ideas and experience from their Segment days. The pandemic, in all its harshness, became a catalyst for their return to the customer data space.Teja's story is far from a linear narrative. The travel venture, the COVID-19 pivot, and the return to the data industry all added unique layers to his entrepreneurial journey. Looking back, Teja feels gratitude for these unexpected turns of events, which led him back to the dynamic world of data and customer platforms.Takeaway: An entrepreneur's journey isn't always a straight path. Teja's experiences, from his departure from Segment to his foray into the travel industry and eventual return to data, highlight the unforeseen opportunities that can surface in the face of challenging times. His story underscores the importance of adaptability and leveraging past experiences to seize new opportunities in the ever-changing business landscape.Composable CDP - The Birth and Journey of a New ParadigmWhen asked about the emergence of the term "composable CDP" and the role Hightouch played in its inception, Tejas reminisced about the early days of this concept's birth. Tejas recalled collaborating with one of their esteemed partners to develop a novel way of approaching Customer Data Platforms (CDPs), distinct from the traditional models. Their goal was to define an architectural blueprint that would resonate with a marketing audience while providing a fresh solution to existing CDP challenges. The result was the "composable CDP."Despite its somewhat confusing nature, this term became a touchstone for their market positioning. But Tejas admitted, many terms in the martech world like "marketing cloud" or "engagement hub" often induce more head scratching than clarity. Their aim, however, was not merely to coin a catchy phrase but to address a pervasive dissatisfaction within the industry. At the time, many large enterprises and mid-market companies were investing heavily in CDPs, hoping to enable marketers to freely explore customer data, create audiences, and tailor customer journeys across all channels. Yet, despite the widespread adoption, most were finding little value in these investments. This stark discrepancy between aspiration and reality was the driving force behind Hightouch. The aim was not just to sell another CDP, but to propose an innovative approach that would enable marketers to leverage data more effectively across the organization. This approach advocated the utilization of the rich data sources already present in company warehouses, and activating it across various customer journey touchpoints. Tejas highlighted that the core value of a solution should not be whether it's bundled or unbundled, but rather, the tangible business outcomes it can drive. As companies invest in housing their data using various BI tools, from Microsoft Power BI to newer players like Looker, the potential to empower marketing teams with this wealth of data is tremendous. Solutions like Hightouch or a robust CDP should offer infinite flexibility, not limiting themselves to specific data collected for a CDP.The term "composable" was chosen to reflect this mindset - working with existing resources, scaling with future technologies, and avoiding the rigid, off-the-shelf solutions. While the term may elicit confusion, the purpose behind it - empowering businesses to effectively use their data - remains clear.Key Takeaway: The term "composable CDP" emerged from the need for a novel approach to CDPs that focused on empowering marketers to use data more effectively. It's about leveraging existing data, offering infinite flexibility, and scaling with future technologies, rather than sticking to rigid, traditional solutions.Breaking Down the Power of Composable CDP vs Packaged SolutionsProbing deeper into the potential of Composable CDP, Tejas was asked to illuminate the benefits of adopting such an approach over a monolithic all-in-one package solution. Tejas, ever insightful, took this as an opportunity to share the unique strength of a composable strategy.He started by emphasizing the fundamental flaw in traditional customer data platforms (CDPs) - their reliance on a pre-defined data architecture. Brands using conventional CDPs like Segment, Oracle, or Salesforce CDP are forced to adapt their data into a format acceptable to the platform, and this restriction severely limits the platform's capability. In Tejas' words, "they can only operate on data that they understand and that was built for them." This myopic vision becomes problematic in the complex, diverse landscape of large enterprises where every business is unique and possesses an array of distinct data. Tejas vividly illustrated this point by citing the case of a Fortune 500 company that wanted to leverage its pet loyalty program data - a dataset unique to their business - to drive personalization and engagement. Traditional CDPs failed to handle this unique set of data due to their rigid architecture, but Hightouch's flexible and inclusive approach brought the data to life.The ability of Hightouch to tap into an organization's existing data, whether it's stored in Snowflake, Databricks, or any other system, and utilize it to deliver highly personalized experiences is at the heart of its value proposition. By contrast, the challenges of molding data to fit into a traditional CDP's format have led to a high failure rate, Tejas pointed out, making the novel architecture of Hightouch all the more appealing.Takeaway: The real power of a composable approach like Hightouch's lies in its flexibility and inclusivity. It's not restricted to pre-defined data architectures and can handle unique...

What’s up everyone, today we’re joined by Kate Nowrouzi, VP of Deliverability at Mailgun by Sinch.Summary: Kate brilliantly dissected the complex realm of email marketing, highlighting the critical need for strategic decision-making and a meticulous, step-by-step approach to restore domain reputation. Drawing upon her unique shift from fighting spam to aiding marketers, she illuminated the nuanced layers of email deliverability. Reinforcing the superiority of genuine engagement over manufactured interactions, Kate underlined the importance of understanding audience needs, continuously refining strategies, and valuing quality over quantity. She also acknowledged the transformative potential of new technologies like BIMI, AMP, and machine learning, suggesting a forward-thinking approach for marketers willing to navigate the growing tech-driven competition.About KateKate started her career in network and anti-spam engineering roles at two major ISPs; Verizon and AOLShe then moved to the vendor side at Fishbowl, a Customer engagement platform for restaurant marketers where she led email deliverability operations Kate's profound experience in email deliverability then guided her to a pivotal role as the SVP of Deliverability and Email Compliance at SparkPost, one of the industry’s most popular email delivery platformsKate’s also been Co-Chair of the Complaint Feedback Loop Committee at theMessaging Anti Abuse Working GroupShe’s an Advisor and Investor for various startupsShe’s also an Advisory Board member of Persian Women in Tech, with a mission toclose the diversity and gender gap in STEMToday, Kate serves as the VP of Deliverability & Product Strategy at Sinch, a public Customer Communications company that acquired Mailgun 2 years agoHarnessing the Power of Insider Knowledge in Email MarketingIn a moment of reflection on her professional journey, Kate highlighted the value she gained from her tenure at AOL. She spent four vital years in the realm of anti-spam operations, an experience that she later brought to her roles at email service providers like SparkPost and Mailgun.Kate began her career in the early 2000s as an anti-spam engineer at AOL, at a time when email marketing was gaining momentum. AOL led the way by offering the first robust spam report option to their members, a trend quickly picked up by other industry titans like Microsoft and Yahoo. However, her transition from ISP to the marketing side or Email Service Providers (ESPs), required a significant shift in mindset.Working on the ISP side, Kate's primary focus had been on shielding members from malicious actors intent on infiltrating their inboxes. Yet, as she transitioned to the ESP environment, her role morphed. Now, she was aiding brands and marketers in ensuring their emails didn't raise spam red flags.This drastic change in problem sets and operational goals required some adaptation. Kate noted the initial challenges of transitioning from one end of the business to another. However, she affirmed that her experience on the ISP side provided invaluable insights that helped guide brands away from appearing spammy in their email marketing efforts.Takeaway: The shift from battling spammers to helping marketers get their emails into inboxes was a challenging, but enlightening journey for Kate. Her early career experience as an anti-spam engineer provided her with an insider’s understanding of what brands should avoid to not come across as spammy, proving to be an indispensable asset in her later roles at ESPs.Shifting Perspectives From Spam Prevention to Marketing DeliveryKate recalls an intriguing philosophical debate that arose during her tenure during her transition from an anti-spam role to an ESP environment. Having battled to block spam on one side and then striving to get marketing content into inboxes on the other, she found herself in a unique conundrum.A memorable instance arose when Kate moved from AOL to Fishbowl, an email marketing platform for restaurants. One night, she was roused from sleep by an urgent issue: a major client's birthday campaign was being blocked by AOL or Yahoo. The client was Red Robin, and the blocking of their campaign was considered a serious matter. Kate, however, found this jarring. Was it worth losing sleep over a blocked birthday campaign, when her previous role had conditioned her to respond to potentially harmful breaches of privacy?But as her colleagues stressed, the situation was indeed significant. Red Robin was a top-tier client and the success of their birthday campaign mattered. This incident served as a defining moment for Kate, reinforcing the fact that she was indeed on the other side of the business now, with a new set of priorities to consider.Takeaway: Kate’s anecdote about the Red Robin incident underlines the drastic shift in perspectives that can occur within the same industry. A blocked marketing campaign might not seem critical to someone from an anti-spam background, but in the world of ESPs and email marketing, it becomes a major concern. It's a poignant reminder of the nuanced complexities inherent in the world of email communication.The Battle of Formats: HTML vs Text in EmailsWhen asked about the age-old debate between HTML and text in emails, Kate laid out her perspective, which leans towards simplicity. While marketers might be attracted to the visual appeal and richness of HTML emails, Kate warns against overwhelming the end user with too much information and too many distractions. In line with studies indicating that simpler emails often perform better, she suggests focusing on the most critical points and avoiding excessive complexity.Kate also highlights the importance of adaptability based on the nature of the campaign and the audience. For instance, an interactive email might be perfect for a webinar invite, as it can eliminate unnecessary steps for the user, such as clicking on links and visiting external websites for registration. However, interactive emails might not be the best fit for all marketing campaigns.As every inbox and device displays emails differently, it's essential to keep up with technology and perform rigorous testing before launching any campaign, major or minor. With various rendering tools available, like Email on Acid, marketers can preview how an email looks across over a hundred devices. A/B testing is highly recommended to fine-tune the decision between text, HTML, or interactive formats.Takeaway: Email format is not a one-size-fits-all decision. It’s about understanding your audience, the purpose of your campaign, and the compatibility with various devices. Keeping your emails simple, clear, and focused is often the best route, but never shy away from testing and refining your approach based on your specific needs and results.The Emergence of BIMI and AMP: A New Era for Email Marketing?When asked about the rise of new email technologies like BIMI (Brand Indicators for Message Identification) and AMP (Accelerated Mobile Pages), Kate expressed an optimistic outlook. These frameworks aim to improve brand visibility, confirm authenticity, and enhance interactive features in emails, all of which can potentially boost engagement and conversion rates for businesses. However, the implementation of these technologies is not without challenges.There are roadblocks, especially with BIMI, that teams and working groups are actively trying to overcome. For instance, registering a trademark logo, a requirement for BIMI, can be a significant challenge for brands. Additionally, the responsibi...