Humans of Martech

What’s up everyone, today we have the distinct honor of being joined by the Martech Landscape creator, the Author of Hacking Marketing, The Godfather of Martech himself, mister Scott Brinker.Summary: Scott sees AI as a power boost, not a replacement in marketing. He imagines marketers wielding AI to parse data and enhance specialist roles. AI's potential when combined with composability democratizes technical tool access, letting every marketer glean key insights from huge data. Yet, the human touch in martech is vital; marketing leaders need training and internalcommunication chops. Scott's future martech leaders are tech-savvy, eloquent communicators, guiding their teams through the constant evolution of the marketing landscape.About ScottThroughout his career, Scott’s navigated seamlessly between the realms of marketing and technologyHe put his first entrepreneurial mark in the martech world when he Co-founded ion interactive, a martech SaaS providing interactive content tools for marketersIn 2008, he began sharing industry insights on the Chief Marketing Technologist blog with the hope of serving as a resource to help spread the “marketing technology” memeA few years later, he released the first ever version of the Martech Landscape maps, back when there was only about 150 martech vendors He launched the esteemed MarTech conference in 2014 and remains its program chair to this dayToday he’s VP of Platform Ecosystem at HubSpot where he enhances their synergy with the broader marketing tech landscape, a landscape that maps over 11,000 vendors today He continues to be the acclaimed force behind chiefmartec.com, hailed universally as the martech world's ultimate wellspring of knowledge and insightHow Marketing Jobs Will Be Reshaped by AIScott firmly places himself in the camp that views AI not as a threat to marketing jobs but as a crucial tool for the modern marketer. He holds a strong belief that good marketing requires human input, and this won't be changing anytime soon. Scott reframes the common adage, often heard in marketing circles, that a marketer's job won't be replaced by AI but by another marketer who is adept at using AI.As tongue-in-cheek as this phrase might be, Scott sees a lot of truth in it. He views AI as a broad set of capabilities that can be harnessed in various ways to enhance marketing. While the initial applications, such as content generation, are undoubtedly intriguing, the real potential of AI in marketing goes beyond these use cases.Scott argues that the power of AI lies in how it allows marketers to better harness data, and enables more sophisticated automation across the entire marketing spectrum. Particularly on the Martech side of things, Scott anticipates marketing operations leaders and Martech professionals leveraging generative AI to up-level their stack and operational capabilities.Rather than viewing AI as a potential replacement for their roles, Scott suggests that marketers should see AI as a key part of their job description. It won't take over all aspects of their work, but it will become a significant component of what they do.Takeaway: The future of AI in marketing is not about replacement but about enhancement. AI is set to become a vital tool that will empower marketers to up-level their operational capabilities and harness data more effectively. As Scott astutely points out, the job of a marketer won't be replaced by AI; instead, it will be reshaped by those marketers who can successfully integrate AI into their strategies.Early-Stage Marketers Should Choose a Focus Area Then Utilize AIAccording to Scott, marketing has always offered a myriad of different specialties and that, arguably, has been amplified over the past 10 to 15 years. Yes, there's a role for the 'jack-of-all-trades' or marketing generalist. Still, as Scott astutely notes, there are also several specialized roles that marketers can pursue, each requiring a unique set of skills. Whether it's hosting a podcast or being a master in content creation, each specialization requires dedication and unique abilities.In terms of marketing operations, Scott suggests that this is another area of marketing requiring a specialized skill set. For those new to marketing, the challenge then becomes deciding whether to become a generalist marketing manager or specialize in a specific area. Scott believes that the generalist path, while rewarding, can be quite challenging because of its broad scope. On the other hand, specializing in a particular area, like content creation or marketing operations, can provide a focus. This concentration, according to Scott, not only enables you to become proficient in a specific aspect but also allows you to learn generalist capabilities, given that marketing is inherently a team sport.Scott's advice for those looking to utilize AI tools in their early marketing career is to choose a focus area, then learn and grow from there. While the field of marketing may appear vast, narrowing your scope and honing in on a specific skill can provide a strong foundation from which to expand your knowledge and skills.Takeaway: For early-stage marketers, leveraging AI doesn't mean trying to master everything at once. Instead, it's about selecting a specialization within marketing, and honing your skills in that area. This approach, combined with a keenness to adopt AI tools, will equip them with a 'superpower' that keeps them ahead of the curve in an ever-evolving marketing landscape.Unleashing AI in Marketing with the Power of Composability Scott is particularly excited about the rapidly evolving concept of composability in the realm of marketing. This concept, at its core, revolves around the assembly of different elements—software, data, workflows, and steps—to achieve specific outcomes, much like putting together building blocks. Up until recently, composability was largely contained within the 'no-code' space, with a suite of tools allowing marketers to construct, analyze, and manipulate workflows across various apps and data sets.But the democratization of composability was somewhat limited. Scott noted that these no-code tools often necessitated a level of technological prowess akin to the 'power user,' those individuals comfortable with the complexities of Excel formulas and intricate app functions. This requirement often resulted in a smaller subset of marketers taking full advantage of these tools, leaving a significant amount of potential untapped.Enter the advent of AI interfaces and generative AI. Scott strongly believes that these technological advances are about to open up the world of composability to all marketers, effectively democratizing these previously restrictive functions. Scott particularly emphasizes the potential of AI in data analysis, marking it as a highly accessible and immediately beneficial application for marketers. In the current data-driven marketing landscape, organizations often grapple with vast amounts of data, making it challenging to find the right information and draw actionable insights promptly.The generative AI's capacity to serve as a tireless, personal data analyst is an exciting prospect. Unlike a human analyst who...

What’s up everyone, today we’re joined by Pini Yakuel, a trailblazing entrepreneur and the dynamic CEO of Optimove, a company at the forefront of AI in marketing.Summary: Pioneering the intersection of AI and marketing, Pini Yakuel sheds light on the transformative potential and present limitations of AI in the creative process. With Optimove, the era of hyper-personalized marketing campaigns has been around for a while, encouraging early-stage marketers to embrace the uniquely human aspects of their craft. Pini's vision harmonizes human creativity and AI precision, reshaping marketing strategies through self-optimizing campaigns and introducing an innovative approach to email marketing metrics. Underneath it all, Optimove's CDP, powered by Snowflake, emphasizes the power of packaged marketing solutions and the critical role of intelligent data usage in a unified platform. As we unpack Optimove's cutting edge AI features and we navigate the dynamic landscape of AI in marketing, Pini's insights offer a valuable compass.About PiniFrom his early days as a university professor in Tel Aviv to the helm of Optimove, Pini's journey is marked by a relentless pursuit of innovationHe founded Optimove in 2009, pioneering the use of predictive analytics and machine learning in marketing, redefining the marketing standards in retail and gaming industriesUnder Pini's leadership, Optimove has morphed from a consultancy firm to a global SaaS company, serving 350 brands worldwide, with multiple offices and 220 employeesPini is celebrated for his transformative leadership and commitment to pushing the boundaries of marketing, embodying the forward-thinking spirit marketers should aspire toThe Evolution of AI in Marketing: A Perspective from PioneersPioneering AI marketer Pini has witnessed first-hand the transformative impact that AI, and specifically language models like GPT, have had on the world of marketing. His fascination isn't new; he's spent over a decade using AI to analyze customer data, setting trends rather than following them. Now, the advent of natural language processing (NLP) technologies is opening up new frontiers.Pini's fascination lies not only in the evolution of AI but also in the practical applications it can bring. Currently, GPT is sparking a lot of excitement in marketing, particularly in areas like copywriting and email marketing. Innovators are continuously finding creative ways to leverage GPT's capabilities, and Pini is no exception. He's eager to explore different ways to utilize GPT, from innovative marketing applications to shaking up traditional homework assignments in schools. Yes, you read that correctly. With AI's progress, school assignments as we know them might soon become a thing of the past.However, Pini also raises a note of caution amid the hype. There are bold claims out there about how AI will revolutionize industries, with some suggesting a handful of developers with OpenAI could outperform a traditional development team of a hundred. Predictions abound that marketers and designers could be entirely replaced, that professional photo shoots will cease to exist, and that human copywriting will become obsolete. But Pini isn't entirely sold on these extreme forecasts. He sees these as part of the hype cycle, where reality and expectations might not align perfectly.Despite the hype, Pini acknowledges that AI's advancements represent a significant step forward in AI capabilities, and it's this progress that fuels the current excitement. His prediction for the immediate future? A revolution in search engine technology, brought about by AI. He envisions a future where search engines provide deeper, more contextual responses to queries, effectively eliminating the need for multiple clicks or further reading. In Pini's eyes, this improved search experience will become a reality sooner than we might think.Takeaway: The rise of AI, especially in the realm of natural language processing, is transforming various sectors, including marketing. While it's essential to temper expectations amidst the hype, there's no denying the impact of AI's progress. For pioneers like Pini, the future of AI in marketing is about harnessing these capabilities in innovative ways. His immediate prediction? A revolution in search engine technology for a more efficient and rich user experience.The Potential and Limitations of AI in Marketing JobsA common question that arises whenever there's a breakthrough in technology like AI is: will it replace human jobs? For marketers, this question is at the forefront, given the recent rise of AI into mainstream conversation.Pini, however, sees the situation in a nuanced way, particularly when it comes to creative tasks such as design work. For instance, let's consider AI applications in the context of creating digital art or graphic design, like the type of work generated by DALL-E, OpenAI's art-producing AI. While AI has demonstrated its prowess in creating complex, comic-book-like visuals, it still faces challenges in capturing and accurately reflecting unique brand aesthetics.In Pini's experience, one of his designers noted that while an AI might excel at creating a fantastical image of a unicorn riding a motorcycle on Mars, it's a different story when tasked with designing a banner that encapsulates the unique look and feel of a brand. Brands often have specific design languages and style guides that have been carefully crafted and evolved over time. Integrating these elements into AI-generated designs poses a significant challenge, and according to the designer Pini spoke to, AI isn't quite there yet.Takeaway: While AI is making strides in various areas, including creative tasks, it has its limitations. As per Pini's perspective, AI might struggle to replace the nuanced understanding and creativity of human marketers when it comes to creating brand-specific designs. This illustrates the importance of seeing AI as a tool to augment human capabilities rather than replace them entirely.Adapting to the AI Wave: Advice for Early Stage MarketersThe rise of AI has created apprehension among early-stage marketers, especially recent graduates who are about to step into the job market. There's a fear that entry-level roles, such as email marketing or copywriting, could be taken over by AI, as it can save businesses a significant amount of time on initial drafts.Pini, however, offers a perspective that provides reassurance amidst these concerns. He acknowledges that automation has been a part of human progress for a long time, replacing certain tasks across different sectors. But he also underscores that AI and automation, for all their capabilities, can't replace the unique human touch.What makes us human - our ability to ask profound questions, carve out narratives, design experiments, and exercise creativity - is something that machines can't yet replicate. While AI can handle mundane, repetitive tasks (which many people don't particularly enjoy), it falls short when it comes to tasks that require a human touch.So, what does this mean for early-stage marketers looking to navigate the AI wave? Pini's advice is to double down on cultivating the uniquely human aspects of their craft. The future may bring new professions like AI technicians or AI designers, but the principles of curiosity, craftsmanship, and continuous learning will continue to be valuable. Takeaway: Despite the rise of AI, the uniquely human asp...

Summary: Wyatt Bales served up an awesome episode, calling marketers to defend themselves with SQL proficiency amidst rising AI and automation. His vision? The future marketer as a 'full-stack' pro, tech-savvy and strategic, partnering with AI to steer marketing operations to be faster and more data-driven. Wyatt emphasizes maintaining a strong grasp on foundational skills alongside AI tools. In his projected future, consumers willingly opt into hyper-personalized, non-intrusive ads, reshaping advertising dynamics. His takeaway? The marketing landscape is becoming a less daunting journey, navigated by versatile, full-stack professionals who strike the perfect balance between tech and strategy.About WyattWyatt Bales, Chief Customer Officer at Bluprintx.Wyatt got his start as an analyst at Unilever where he got the knack for using Teradata systems and decided to go consulting for the vendors themselves. At Teradata, he implemented marketing automation and an analytics software for a few Fortune 100 customers.A few colleagues of his went over to a lesser known company called Marketo, where he started as employee # 201 He moved up to Solutions Architect where he focused on revenue attribution and was assigned to some of Marketo’s largest accounts such as Microsoft, Facebook and Philips66..3 years later, Wyatt took a Senior Marketing role at Uber where he eventually relocated to Amsterdam to lead their Enterprise CRM strategy team where he was the principal architect for Uber’s global roll-out of Marketo’s ecosystemAfter being a customer of Bluprintx while at Uber, he got the itch to get back into consulting and open a new Bluprint location in Amsterdam, where he led the European consulting practiceToday Wyatt manages the global P&L and a team of 85 Bluprint consultants and engineersThe Silent Struggle: Marketing Headcount vs Technology IntegrationWyatt begins by addressing a crucial, yet often overlooked issue in the realm of marketing technology: the ongoing tension between maintaining adequate team size and implementing advanced technology. While discussions about the shiny new tech and exciting innovations typically dominate the conversation, he emphasizes that the human aspect, specifically the team size, can get sidelined.Reflecting on his extensive experience, Wyatt recalls numerous instances where businesses grappled with this reality. Often, they found themselves constrained by their inability to grow their teams to match their objectives. "I don't have enough people to do that," a common lament, resonates across various companies he has engaged with. This constant struggle to secure sufficient headcount is a reality that many marketing teams face. But, why is this the case?Wyatt points to a counterintuitive relationship between technological progress and team size. As businesses lean more heavily into automation and AI, there's a growing belief that these advancements can replace the need for large teams. This phenomenon is particularly noticeable in the enterprise space, where headcount tends to remain stagnant, even as marketing technology gets introduced at an accelerating rate.One might be quick to laud this as a victory for efficiency. However, Wyatt prompts us to consider the other side of the coin: What are the implications of this move towards automation and its impact on team size? Are we heading towards a future where automation overtakes human creativity and effort in marketing? And if so, what are the implications for those who've made their careers in this space?Takeaway: Wyatt's reflection presents a compelling portrait of the struggle within the marketing world. The tug of war between advancing technology and the need for human intellect exposes a significant challenge faced by many companies today. As we move further into the realm of AI and automation, businesses must grapple with the question: How do we strike the balance between leveraging cutting-edge technology and preserving the invaluable human element that drives creativity and innovation?Becoming Future-Proof: The Power of SQL SkillsWith the growing concern about AI potentially replacing entry-level jobs in marketing, Wyatt offers a lifeline: learning SQL. This piece of advice is significant in an era where anxiety about job prospects, particularly among soon-to-be graduates, is increasingly prevalent. Wyatt provides reassurance, suggesting that mastering SQL can equip individuals with a skill that's in high demand and potentially immune to the trend of job automation.For those unfamiliar, SQL (Structured Query Language) is a programming language used for managing and manipulating databases. It's a valuable skill across various marketing roles, including strategy, market operations, and analytics. And according to Wyatt, this skill can act as a powerful tool for carving out one's career path, regardless of the turns the industry might take.As companies continue to leverage data to inform their strategies, the role of data analysts becomes increasingly pivotal. They're needed to extract, manipulate, and funnel data into systems that drive decisions. Wyatt argues that this role is still a considerable distance from being automated. As such, individuals skilled in SQL and capable of tasks like joining two datasets together or building dashboards have strong job prospects.Key Takeaway: Wyatt's advice to graduates or those feeling the heat of AI's rising influence is to invest time in learning SQL. This specific, tangible skill set serves as an excellent defense against automation's encroachment into the job market. It's a reassuring message that underlines the enduring value of technical skills, even in an era increasingly dominated by AI.The Future Marketer: Bridging Technical Skillset and Strategic MindsetWyatt foresees a transformation in the DNA of successful marketers in the coming decade. He predicts a bifurcation, where marketers will be divided into two distinct groups: those who cultivate a more technical understanding and those who continue to rely on traditional marketing skills. According to Wyatt, technical expertise isn't merely a buzzword; it's a credibility builder. Mastery of technical skills, such as writing SQL queries, discussing API integrations, and coding, boosts a marketer's credibility not only among engineers but also among senior executives. However, this doesn't downplay the importance of strategy. If a marketer can balance technical prowess with a sound understanding of strategic elements, such as mapping out a lead funnel or discussing conversions, they will possess a unique skill set that is highly sought after. This hybrid profile—the technical strategist—will be the most valuable player in the future marketing landscape.Wyatt goes one step further and outlines an ideal marketer for the future. Such a marketer would know how to leverage tools like AI and GPT for creative tasks, like generating copy or designing, and integrate these capabilities into a broader marketing stack. He gives the example of 'content supply chains', where campaign briefs can go through market automation all the way to delivery, without the need for a single developer or market operations person. This vision isn't far-fetched; it's becoming reality today. And a marketer who can navigate this landscape, integrating AI tools with enterprise sy...

What’s up folks, today we’re joined by Aliaksandra Lamachenka, Marketing Technology Consultant and Nonprofit founder.Summary: Aliaksandra takes us on a journey through the evolving AI landscape in marketing, promising a future shaped by deep human expertise and broad understanding, all areas where AI is still playing catch up. The episode is ripe with insights about the rise of hybrid, business-savvy data product managers, who are subtly revolutionizing martech by marrying marketing perspectives with innovative thinking. They are unearthing overlooked insights, much like Duolingo, which leveraged data science to redefine its target metrics and boost its DAU. Amidst the din of the composable vs packaged CDPs debate, Aliaksandra brings our attention back to the basics - the crucial need for quality, traceable data. This illuminates the pivotal role of open data hubs, which could unlock the next chapter in efficient data management and utilization. Meanwhile, vendors of composable data platforms face a crossroads: will they expand to cater to growing customer needs or hold fast to their roots? Their decision could very well shape the future of martech, steering its course towards either the democratization of data or maintenance of the status quo.About AliaksandraBorn in Belarus, Aliaksandra got her start in gaming and SaaS startups in product marketing rolesIn 2017 she became Head of Marketing at SplitMetrics, a team of experts building the future of mobile marketing toolsShe then moved to the UK to lead a product marketing team at Skyscanner, the popular flight comparison site where she focused on app growth and martechIn 2021, she joined Depop as Marketing Technology Lead where she owned compliance management, multi-touch attribution and much moreSince then she’s partnered with various companies as a Marketing Technology and Growth advisor, including the popular female health app– FloIn April of last year, Aliaksandra co-founded Leleka Art, an online nonprofit marketplace that allows you to buy artwork made by children from Ukraine built on top of a custom money transfer system Today, she’s scaled Leleka to a team of 30+ volunteers, +5k sellers and 15k works of art helping children and their families make over 30kThe Organic Evolution of AI in Marketing and Lessons from Architectural HistoryAliaksandra takes a particularly compelling approach to understanding the potential role of AI in marketing. Drawing a unique analogy from the records of Japanese architectural history, she paints a picture of how AI's integration could be less of a disruptive force, but rather an organic and gradual process.Following the Second World War, a group of young Japanese architects refused to view architecture as merely a functional tool. They envisioned buildings as living organisms, an idea that later came to be known as "Japanese metabolism." These architects designed structures with a central spine, to which they could add or subtract modular capsules as needed. At the time, their ideas were regarded as revolutionary, indicative of what the future would undoubtedly hold.Decades later, their concepts have not been realized in their envisioned form, mainly being used for storage purposes, yet they have certainly left an indelible mark. The idea of high modularity, the foundational spine with small attachable elements, is now visible in various facets of our lives. You can observe it in modular housing, landscape-integrated buildings, and even in the functionality of platforms like Pandora, Tesla, or the App Store.Aliaksandra sees AI's trajectory in a similar light. Like the revolutionary architectural concepts of the past, AI's ideas may appear bold and groundbreaking. However, their integration will likely be more gradual than anticipated, quietly shaping our future. Much like the world adapted to the concepts of modularity, so too will it adapt to AI.Just as we accept modular buildings as a natural part of our world today, in 20 or 50 years, AI's presence in marketing will feel just as natural and intrinsic. AI won't displace marketers overnight but will instead weave itself into the fabric of the profession organically.Takeaway: The progression of AI in marketing is not likely to be a sudden, disruptive force. Instead, as Aliaksandra's rich analogy suggests, AI will bring about a natural evolution in the field, slowly but surely shaping its future.AI and the Future of Early-Stage Marketing Careers, Depth, Breadth, and GeneralismOne of Aliaksandra’s key points is the future value of professionals who can operate at the intersection of different industries or specialties. In a world where the boundaries between industries are blurring, being an expert in more than one field could be a significant advantage. For instance, understanding both engineering and marketing, or medicine and business, can provide a broader perspective and unique insights. In the future job market, the collision of different worlds could be the breeding ground for innovation.However, depth of expertise remains equally critical, and this is something Aliaksandra wishes she had realized earlier in her career. She warns against the temptation of becoming a generalist too early on, of trying to learn a little bit of everything. Instead, she suggests starting by deepening expertise in one or two fields, then gradually acquiring knowledge in additional areas. This approach allows for a solid foundation of deep expertise paired with a broad understanding, a balance that she believes could be crucial for early-career success in the evolving landscape.Lastly, she draws our attention to the inherently generalistic nature of AI language models, like ChatGPT. These models are designed to draw on a wide range of sources and generalize information, lacking the depth of expertise that humans can have. In this regard, individuals with profound expertise in their field have an advantage, as it would be challenging for a language model to compete with their specialized knowledge.Takeaway: The future of marketing careers may lie in cultivating a blend of deep expertise, cross-industry knowledge, and a broad understanding. Above all, it's the depth of human expertise that AI has yet to match.The Impact of Business-Oriented Machine Learning/Data Product Managers in Martech TeamsAliaksandra opened up about her experiences working with these dynamic professionals known as business-oriented machine learning/data product managers. Their passion for growth and marketing sets them apart as natural innovators. Interestingly, their lack of traditional marketing knowledge or business processes doesn't limit them, but rather fuels their innovative mindset.She explained that these professionals constantly challenge established beliefs and norms within the team. They aren't afraid to question the reasoning behind the set processes and methodologies. This sense of inquisitiveness often leads to uncovering novel perspectives and solutions that may have been neglected due to the team's ingrained biases.Another area where these data product managers excel is in their effective collaboration with engineering teams. With a firm grasp of technical complexities and trade-offs, they can have meaningful exchanges with engineers, propose manageable initiatives, and break down larger projects into smaller, achievable parts. In essence, they're the link between the marketing and engineering teams, bringing valuable perspectives to both sides.However...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of chatting with the profoundly eloquent Juan Mendoza.Summary: Juan unpacks the unique journey of OpenAI, underscoring the importance of distinguishing between tech hype and real value. As AI intertwines with our lives, Juan highlights the delicate dance of harnessing its efficiency while preserving human creativity. He calls for a critical balance in using AI as a creative aid without stunting our own creative prowess. Amid the benefits, Juan also raises crucial questions about trust and privacy, advocating for marketers to use AI responsibly. Ultimately, this episode reaffirms the need to thoughtfully navigate AI’s limitless potential while upholding our fundamental human values and ethics.About JuanJuan is based in Melbourne, Australia where he got his start in various roles including startup marketing, martech strategy and conversion rate optimization.  He spent 4 years at The Lumery, a premier Martech consulting shop where he worked on customer centric strategies across various channels.In 2020, he started the Martech Weekly, a newsletter covering where the industry is going and why.He’s also the host of the Making Sense of Martech podcast, an extension of his newsletterOne podcast and a newsletter isn’t enough for Juan though, in 2022 he teamed up with Scott Brinker and started the Big Martech show covering big news and big ideas in Martech4 months after launching a premium subscription and growing his newsletter to thousands of martech pros over 65 countries, Juan decided to go full-time on TMW Recently he announced TMW 100 – a global Martech awards event ranking the most innovative marketing technology companies from 1st to 100th placeThe OpenAI Approach: Laser-Focus and High-Quality Language ModelsJuan underscored the significance of OpenAI’s niche focus and dedication to developing large-scale language models. Unlike big tech giants—Google, Amazon, Meta and others—who spread their resources and attention over various types of AI technologies, OpenAI chose a distinct path. They concentrated all their efforts on building transformative generative models like GPT-3 and GPT-4, which set the groundwork for the success of ChatGPT.Juan suggested that OpenAI’s edge lies in their extreme focus, patience, and funding. Established as a Silicon Valley tech company, OpenAI was backed by tech tycoons like Elon Musk and Microsoft, as well as some of the world’s largest venture capital firms. However, OpenAI’s goal differed. They weren’t trying to distribute AI across various services and products. Instead, they strived to create something unique and powerful—a tool that could manipulate language with an unprecedented level of precision.Juan further highlighted how OpenAI’s technology feels “magical” compared to competitors. For instance, Google’s BERT, although an impressive model, doesn’t meet the same level of accuracy as ChatGPT. Moreover, it ‘hallucinates’—generates incorrect or nonsensical outputs—significantly more often than ChatGPT.Juan also reminded us of the chatbot craze of 2016, which, despite the hype, resulted in less-than-stellar customer experiences. Fast forward to today, the launch of GPT-based models has reinvigorated the chatbot space, breathing new life into the industry. The key difference? An AI agent that can actually provide intelligent, useful responses.Takeaway: OpenAI’s specific concentration on creating large, high-quality language models, backed by extreme patience and funding, was pivotal in their success story. Their dedication to a niche allowed them to develop an AI that is more accurate and less likely to hallucinate than its competitors. This focus transformed the realm of chat interfaces, redefining the future of AI agents and encouraging a fresh wave of startups to build on this advanced technology.The Adoption Race: Comparing ChatGPT and Snapchat’s AI Tools Juan’s analysis of the rapid spread of ChatGPT brought fascinating insights. He cited how ChatGPT became one of the fastest-growing apps globally, reaching a million users in merely five days. This impressive rate outpaced even Instagram and TikTok’s growth, both of which took weeks to months to reach the same number of users. He attributed this meteoric rise to the simple yet brilliant user experience, which only required users to create an account and start chatting.However, Juan posed an interesting counter-argument, comparing ChatGPT’s growth with the newly launched AI tool by Snapchat—Snap AI. Despite being on the market for only two months, Snap AI already boasts 125 million users and over 10 billion messages sent. It reached 100 million users faster than ChatGPT, achieving the feat in just two months compared to ChatGPT’s four to five months.Juan speculated on the factors driving Snap AI’s rapid growth, posing two possibilities. One might be the timing—Snap AI could be riding the wave of excitement and acceptance generated by GPT-based technology. Another potential factor could be a generational shift, with younger users flocking to the more AI-enhanced environments provided by platforms like Snapchat.Takeaway: While ChatGPT has been a massive success, becoming one of the fastest-growing apps globally, other AI tools, like Snap AI, are rising quickly in the adoption race. The rapid growth of these platforms may be due to a combination of riding the AI hype cycle and a generational shift towards AI-enhanced environments. It is a reminder that, in the ever-evolving AI space, being first to market doesn’t always mean you’ll be the fastest-growing or most widely adopted solution.The Metaverse, AI and the Hype Cycle: A Critical AnalysisJuan expressed his concerns about the hype cycle surrounding emerging technologies like AI, the metaverse, and web 3.0. He opined that such hype cycles often lead to exhaustion, especially among senior individuals who are tired of constant pitches for the “next big thing.”Juan cited an example where he was at a conference and representatives from Meta and an advertising agency were zealously promoting the metaverse. According to him, they were pushing marketers to prepare for the metaverse, without critically analyzing why it should be included in their marketing strategies in the first place.Juan also expressed disappointment in certain consultancy companies for their uncritical acceptance of Mark Zuckerberg’s vision for the metaverse. McKinsey, Accenture, and Bloomberg were among those criticized by Juan for their generous predictions of the metaverse’s economic impact, without rigorous analysis of the feasibility and practical implementation of this new trend.Contrasting this with the iPhone, Juan pointed out that it took five years for the iPhone to reach mass consumer market penetration, despite it being recognized as one of the most significant shifts in consumer experiences, software development, and mobile technology. Thus, according to Juan, hype without actual products often...

Boris Jabes, Co-founder and CEO of Census and a former Microsoft Program Manager, shares insights from his journey in tech and entrepreneurship. He discusses the evolution of Customer Data Platforms, emphasizing the shift toward composable architectures for better data management. Boris covers the importance of collaboration between marketing and data teams, detailing how reverse ETL can break down silos. He also addresses AI's role in marketing, weighing its advantages against the challenges of maintaining data trustworthiness.

In our latest episode, we're thrilled to feature Dan Balcauski, Founder of Product Tranquility, as we navigate the world of SaaS pricing models.About Dan BalcauskiStarted his career in product management at National Instruments, based in Austin, Texas.Ascended to the role of Product Strategy Principal at SolarWinds, a SaaS company serving DevOps and IT professionals.Made a significant shift to B2C, leading product at LawnStarter Lawn Care.Boasted a successful freelance career as a product manager, earning a place in the top 3% of PM professionals worldwide on Toptal.Imparts his industry knowledge as a program leader at Northwestern University, where he teaches product strategy.In 2019, Balcauski launched Product Tranquility, a venture dedicated to assisting B2B SaaS CEOs in defining pricing and packaging for their products.A Personal AdventureWhat sets Balcauski apart is his remarkable spirit of adventure. Before starting Product Tranquility, he embarked on a personal voyage as an independent travel consultant, planning and undertaking a global expedition through 21 countries. This extraordinary journey demonstrated his fervor for continuous learning, during which he acquired new skills ranging from digital marketing and Spanish proficiency to kiteboarding and Argentine Tango.Join us as we dive deep into the insights and stories Balcauski brings to the table.Value-Based PricingIn our engaging chat, Dan Balcauski brought up some crucial insights regarding the struggles businesses often face while setting up pricing in the SaaS industry. There's often a lack of structure, leading to heated debates rather than an organized approach. To combat this, Balcauski introduces the 'Services' model.Key Challenges in Pricing:An unclear target customer profile: Companies often struggle to understand exactly who they are serving.Poor understanding of how they create customer value: Businesses might be unclear on the unique value they deliver to their customers.Unclear product differentiation: Companies often grapple with distinguishing their products from others in the market.Underappreciation for the depth of decisions in pricing and packaging: Many overlook the vast array of factors impacting pricing, focusing only on surface-level elements.The 'Services' Model:The 'Services' model stands for Segments, Value, Competition, and Strategy, and was designed to address these challenges.Segments: Understand the specific context and constraints of your customer segments, as they dictate what they value most.Value: Recognize how each segment perceives value and rank orders value drivers, influencing how they value your product.Competition: Be aware of the competitive alternatives each segment has available. What would they use if your product didn't exist?Strategy: This comes in the Michael Porter sense of the word. Strategy involves trade-offs; you can't be everything to everyone. Decide who you're going to target, how you position yourselves in their minds, and how you'll balance the different elements of SaaS packaging. This includes price metrics, price models, offer configurations, etc.The combination of these four components informs the price level you set, helping your business achieve its objectives. The 'Services' model ensures a more thoughtful, strategic approach to pricing, moving away from arbitrary decisions.What is value based pricing? Dan Balcauski clarified the concept of value-based pricing and distinguished it from other terms like value metrics and price metrics.Value-Based PricingValue-based pricing, at its core, concerns how value is divided between buyer and seller in a transaction. This notion dates back to Adam Smith and the concept of trade, where specialization and trading lead to overall improvements for everyone involved.“...goes all the way back to Adam Smith with trade, right, you've got the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker, they don't all try to, you know, bake their own bread and cut their own meat, etc. Because it's better if we all specialize, we're all better off if we specialize in trade, right.” - Dan Balcauski Value Metric vs. Price MetricValue Metric: Using a 'Jobs to be Done' framework, the value metric is how customers measure the effectiveness of your product in achieving their specific outcomes. These outcomes could be economic (saving time, decreasing costs, increasing revenue), emotional (reducing anxiety, boosting status), or social (contributing to causes like climate change, equal rights, education, health care).Price Metric: While value metrics focus on the customer, price metrics focus on the product. The price metric is the unit of value for which the customer is charged concerning the product (e.g., number of users, API transactions, gigabytes of data transferred, etc.). Ideally, the value metric and price metric should be correlated, meaning that the way customers derive value from your product should inform the units by which you charge.Outcome-Based PricingThe question of charging based on actual value delivered, like a CRM charging based on deals closed every month instead of the number of users, led to the discussion of outcome-based pricing. This model aligns the vendor with the customer's success, creating a 'pure' form of value-based pricing.While this approach is theoretically appealing, Balcauski explains it doesn't always work in practice. Exceptions include companies like Stripe, which directly participates in the payment flow and therefore aligns its success with its clients' success.Outcome-based pricing may not work well for companies outside the flow of the success metric. It can lead to complications in reporting and potential conflicts, given that what is considered 'success' may not be clearly defined or could be interpreted differently by different parties. Therefore, while enticing, outcome-based pricing requires careful implementation to avoid straining customer relationships.Bundling and Unbundling in Pricing Models**Bundling, Unbundling, and Usage-Based Pricing**Bundling and unbundling, while seemingly contrary, are not in tension with usage-based pricing. These concepts represent different dimensions of product packaging that can evolve independently. According to the Silicon Valley CEO Jim Clark, the only two ways to make money in business are bundling and unbundling.The history of the PC industry illustrates this with the evolution from monolithic providers like IBM to the unbundling of the operating system from the CPU architecture (as seen with the Wintel monopoly), and then back to bundling via Apple's integration of software and hardware. Dan highlights that such industry transformations often occur cyclically and are influenced by broader market trends rather than by single companies.The Nuances of Pricing MetricsPricing metrics, while essential for defining a product's price, can either aid or hinder a company's competitive positioning. The choice of pricing metric depends sign...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of chatting with Mike Rizzo, you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who’s done as much for the marketing Ops community.He got his start in marketing at California-based tech startups and eventually worked in b2b SaaS where he got his hands dirty in several martech toolsIn 2017, he founded MO Pros, a Slack channel dedicated to connecting with Marketing Operations ProfessionalsMike also took a short turn in the agency world where he was Director of Marketing Strategy for Client Accounts at Human, Orange County’s full-service Inbound Marketing Agency He then returned in-house and boomeranged back to one of his earliest startups to lead Community and Loyalty programsHe’s also the co-host of Ops Cast by MO Pros, a podcast for Marketing Ops Pros by Marketing Ops ProsLast year, Mike double down on the community he started and launched MarketingOps.com taking a community-led approach to building career resources that are purpose-built for MO ProsToday, his community counts more than 4,000 martech professionals and is one of the few communities I frequent on a daily basisMike, excited to have you on, not sure why it’s taken this long to chat with you.MO ProsRecently you shared that you don’t take any payroll from MarketingOps(.)com despite all the costs and time you pour into this venture. I was kind of shocked by this honestly. This isn’t just a podcast that you’re spending a few hours on every week. I imagine quite a bit more work and a lot more tech. Can you shine a light on everything that is MO Pros these days and is the revenue you are generating from it just re-invested into the community and paying your costs? What’s stopping you from going all-in on this project?"No Bullsh*t Demo" programI think one of the things that sets your community apart from both a user but also a sponsor/brand perspective is your "No Bullsh*t Demo" program. I’ve sat in on a few of these and for martech companies selling to marketers, this is one of the best ways to reach your ICP.Walk us through how you got this idea and if you’re seeing this more in other communities?MOPS-APALOOZA https://marketingops.com/mopsapalooza23/ You’ve got a big conference coming up in Nov later this year featuring big name speakers like Scott Brinker (Chiefmartec) and Juan Mendoza (TMW). I’d love to hear the story behind creating an in person event and how you went about it and getting big name speakers?I’ll give you the floor to pitch the conference to the audience. Why is this going to be different from other events we’ve been to? You know those events that cost a pretty penny only to get disappointed by talks and come back to your company with little insights and a few new business cards.What’s a certified marketing ops pro?Recently you ranted about take-home assignments in interview rounds and asked the community how we might find ways to prove the skills we have in MOps AHEAD of our next interview. You got a lot of interesting comments on your post. One thing I was surprised that no one commented about is how wildly different the role of MOps is at a startup as a 1 person MOPs team doing everything under the sun vs. at a big 50+ MOps team at a massive enterprise company. I’ve seen this first hand. Different skills and different types of humans… maybe there’s a cert for startup/smb/enterprise marketing ops proBased on the feedback you got, what’s your current thoughts on this, what’s a certified marketing ops pro?AI not replacing any marketers any time soonWe can’t get through a podcast these days without talking about something that’s on everyone’s minds, even if some of us have muted all those AI tech bros on Twitter… I don’t think you’d describe yourself as an AI critic or detractor but you’ve said in a few places that you don’t think AI will be replacing any marketing jobs any time soon.I think the key thing here is that you’re using the term “anytime soon” haha… that could be 3 months like it could be 5 years so you’re saving yourself from potential ridicule by not giving a fixed definition on your time horizon.But maybe we can spend a bit of time here because this is something we don’t totally agree on.AI not replacing community-focused rolesIn our 4 part series on AI, we had a deep dive into how to prepare and future proof your career, potentially exploring new areas of marketing that will be less likely to be impacted. One of those is community-focused roles, which you obviously know a thing or two about.What advice would you have for listeners who don’t have any or little experience with community and events to get some experience and potentially explore this area of speciality?Immersive, personalized events of the futureWe’re big sci-fi fans here on the podcast and love thinking about the speculative future. What are some of the areas that excite you the most about the future of community-led marketing? One that’s thrown around a lot – and likely only going to get even crazier with Apple’s Vision Pro announcement –  is VR and metaverse applications, curious what your thoughts are on: Immersive, personalized events. A future that involves more gamification and VR activations. Starting a fractional businessJon to free form this one – curiosity is a good theme – adventure – I’m very curious about how you choose what you go - what lessons you wish you could bring back to yourself 5-10 years ago…Last questionMike – you’re a founder and CEO, a podcaster, a community moderator, a community-led freelancer, a speaker, a conference organizer, a husband and father of two, a football fanatic… you have a lot going on… One question we ask all our guests is how do you remain happy and successful in your career? How do you find balance between all the things you’re working on while staying happy?—Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with Midjourney

What’s up folks, today we have a super fun conversation with Pratik Desai, Founder and Chief Architect at 1to1.Pratik’s a Rocket Scientist turned Martech personalization expertHe’s armed with a bachelor’s from Rutgers in Aerospace and Mechanical EngineeringHe got his start at Accenture in Technology Consulting and later J&J in consumer apps as a digital product managerHe later took a deep dive into Martech when he became Lead product manager at PVH focused on Salesforce Marketing productsThis led him to spend 3 years at Salesforce where he worked his way up to Personalization Practice Lead (Head of Delivery Services for Personalization)Most recently, Pratik started his own agency called 1to1 to focus on personalization strategy and implementation He also runs a weekly AI Discussion Group to help folks keep up with the fast changing landscape of Curation and Generative AIHe’s a well traveled, trivia loving full stack developerPratik, pumped to chat with you today, thanks for your time!From Aerospace and Sci-fi to martech and personalization Pratik, you have a degree in Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering as well as your pilot license, is this all a backup plan for AI takeover and you naturally shift to space exploration and interplanetary marketing? 😆Pratik’s answer: Aerospace industry wasn’t as mainstream when I graduated and the lucrative Aerospace jobs were in defense. I struggled to see myself going down that route and…Accenture does a damn good job of recruiting engineers out of RutgersLuck is taking the opportunities as they present themselves….which really just set the tone for my career for the next 10 yearsThe pilot's license came after! After a few years of working in technology, I started to miss the thrills of aviation and decided to get a private pilot's license. The feeling of freedom you get when you start traveling is exponentially increased when you actually fly yourself there! What does aerospace and martech have in common? In preparation to transition to my next question we asked ChatGPT what martech and aerospace have in common, it said. Data-driven decision making: In both cases, the ability to collect, analyze, and make decisions based on data is critical.Technological advancements and innovation, specifically use of simulation and modeling tools: Both fields need to stay at the cutting edge of technology to be effective. Problem-solving and customer-centric approach: Both fields involve solving complex problems while keeping the user in mind. Integration: Whether it’s engines, avionics, control systems or landing gear or if it’s CRMs, CMSs, CDPs and MAPs… Both aerospace and martech involve the integration of multiple systems and components.Which one would you pick?Pratik’s answer: Studying engineering definitely sets you up for success in so many different industries. The problem-solving coupled with the data-centric decision making puts you on a path that really helps you excelBut the biggest parallel to getting things right would be integrations. In Aerospace Engineering, there are SO many systems that have to work together and if they don’t, the outcomes could be catastrophic. I can’t tell you the amount of MarTech implementations that I’ve been apart of where integrations don’t get enough love, for various reasons:The source or destination system is owned by a team that wasn’t informed of the transformationThe IT team has conflicting prioritiesETL transfers are easier, so we’ll start there - and it just never becomes priority to make things real-timeEtc Science fictionWe’re huge fans of science fiction on the podcast, so I’d be remiss not to take a short turn here. I made a big assumption here but based on your field of study I guessed that you are a sci-fi fan… I’d love to get your list of favorite science fiction books or movies but more importantly I’d love your take on the speculative future of personalization and what that looks like according to Pratik?I recently read All Our Wrong Todays by Elan Mastai and in one of his alternate future timelines he describes a world where advertising isn’t just 1to1, it’s also tailored based on your mood that day, what you had for breakfast, events on your calendar next week. The protagonist’s big idea is to offer consumers a flat fee to opt out of ads completely, but it’s a big flop. In that world, consumers actually wanted hyper tailored ads.Pratik’s answer: First, I absolutely LOVE time travel stories. I think we, as a society, have learned so much about how the physical world works - it’s fascinating to see how movies/books start to build out the rules for things we don’t understand. With time travel, time dilation is a starting point - but then you’re really free to start building your own rules. Are we in a multiverse? A fixed timeline? A dynamic timeline? Some of my favorites in how they build out the rules and create logical consistencies: Primer, InterstellarThat being said, I TRULY agree that consumers crave hyper-personalization down to minute by minute desires - in my mind, the BIG question is whether or not you’re personalizing to remove friction and promote tailored discovery OR are you personalizing with the intent to misinform, and consequently influence outcomes. It’s SUCH a fine line and intent is crucial. My network and I have spent a lot of time thinking about this - to the point where we even had Y Combinators attention for a bit on a universal preference center. The rules of engagement are the problem because they’re so ambiguous:Where and when does personalization begin? What opt-in and opt-out ability exists without adding additional friction?How do you balance guiding and promoting discovery with the desire to change behaviors?How does a customer's willingness to accept personalization change from e-Commerce to media companies?What control, if any, does a customer have over their personalized journeys with you?At what point should you trigger customer awareness that personalization is or isn’t happening?The road to building and launching 1to1The human side of launching a martech agencyYou founded 1to1, your agency in Oct 2022, at the time of recording you’re about 9 months into the journey. You’ve already surpassed what? 35 personalization implementations!Talk to us about the human side of this journey so far, how have you managed all the sleepless nights, the mistakes and all the contract negotiations?Pratik’s answer: 1to1, to date, has managed 35 MCP implementations ranging from eCommerce to financial services to the streaming industryThe sleepless nights are real. In the beginning…. I was staying up worrying about where our work is coming from next. Now, I stay up worrying about how to fulfill the amount of work we’re partnering on. I’ve evolved to better sleepless nights I’ve made so many mistakes and I plan on making so many more. I think the beauty of working in MarTech is uniquely understanding the power of experimentation. I’ve learned SO much from all the mistakes I’ve made and tha...

Today, we are diving deep into a topic that's pertinent in our fast-paced, hyper-connected world… no not AI, taking a break from that haha - Talking about escapism, and the importance of disconnecting from work. On the show we like to balance the hard martech topics but also the human angle. This is an episode that feels quite timely. In a time where being 'always-on' is the norm, and our work Slack is just a ping away, it's crucial to understand the significance of stepping back. Escapism isn't just about dodging reality or ignoring responsibilities; it's about giving our minds the necessary break to recharge and rejuvenate. I’m a big fan of fiction and love sharing top TV show and book picks and always wanted to find an excuse to do this on the podcast so what better way to do it then an episode about the benefits of escapism and detaching from work. So stay tuned later in the episode for my fav TV shows and books.Here’s today’s main takeaway: When used properly, escapism through fictional narratives is an essential aspect of maintaining our mental health, enhancing our overall creativity and helping us become better humans. The irony of recording this episode on the weekend isn’t lost on me, but this is my hobby and we’re having our best month ever on the podcast so I wanted to keep the momentum going and continue giving JT a bit of a break. Here’s a quick outline of what I’ll cover today:Definitions, what is escapism, what is healthy, escapism and what’s the difference between meditationThe importance of disconnecting from work and how to successfully do thisWhat happens to your brain when you indulge in fictional narratives Strategies for healthy escapismMy top TV shows and my top booksHow to strike a balance and avoid over-reliance I’ll start off by confessing that I didn’t always think this (that escapism is an essential aspect of maintaining our mental health and enhancing our creativity). In my younger career, I fully embodied the idea that an hour spent on learning things that can’t help your career is an hour wasted. If I read a book, it was about business or marketing.If I was listening to a podcast, it was about marketing automation.If I was reading a blog or a newsletter, it was about martech.If I was watching Youtube videos it was Photoshop tutorials.While this is great and likely contributed to increased performance at work, it didn’t give my brain the break it needed to disconnect from work topics.Movies and TV shows were the exception though. If I watched a movie it was sometimes a documentary about consumerism or psychology but movies were where I got my main dose of fiction. I grew up an avid movie buff and watched all the classics and most of IMDB’s top 250 movies of all time. I didn’t grow up in a household with workaholic parents but they did love their work. My dad, specifically a photographer and video editor, spent a lot of his down time watching youtube videos and tutorials following industry tech and other photographers. He’s definitely a source for instilling this growth mindset in me. But what he also did was read a lot of books. Some non fiction biographies, but lots, lots of fiction. John Sandford, Ian Rankin, Peter James. I guess it kind of instilled this idea that you can be amazing at your craft, but still indulge in fiction.I’ve had several jobs that you could describe as high expectation, high pressure. I remember when the shift to remote work began a few years back. Working from home was initially exciting. No commuting, being in the comfort of my own space, it sounded amazing. But soon, the boundaries between my work life and personal life began to fade. My home was my office, and my office was my home. I found myself answering Slack messages on the couch and at dinner time and checking email campaign reports late into the night.The expectation to almost always be online to answer questions for teammates that work in different time zones was real. Reflecting back, my health took a hit, my personal relationships suffered and my anxiety grew.Some days were always more stressful than others, but I think aside from learning to build boundaries and deleting Slack on my phone, one of my coping mechanisms and what inspired my ability to separate work from home was the ability to disconnect, mainly through fiction.DefinitionsI should’ve started with this disclaimer, I’m not a psychologist or a counselor. I do work for a startup conquering addiction that employs a large group of clinicians and counselors, but I’m not an expert. I’m not saying, watching movies and reading books and ignoring your life responsibilities is the key to managing stress. It’s worth unpacking the positive and negative lights of escapism.  Let’s start with defining the concept of escapism. What is escapism?The common definition of escapism is a psychological concept where a person distances themselves from the realities of life, often as a coping mechanism to alleviate stress. This disengagement from reality can take on various forms, including immersive experiences in music, books, movies, video games, or other hobbies. I like to think of escapism less as an escape from reality and more as the ability to seek solace in alternative realities to give you a different perspective on your current reality instead of just focusing on the unpleasant or mundane aspects of everyday life and work. It’s a way of stepping outside of yourself, so to speak, to get distractions or find relief from real life. Healthy escapismMore simply, escapism is temporarily diverting your attention from the routine of daily life. That’s what many refer to as healthy escapism. Healthy escapism isn't about avoiding reality, but taking necessary breaks to recharge. These breaks diving into fiction stimulate different areas of the brain, promoting overall mental well-being. But remember, the key is balance. All forms of escapism can be beneficial when used mindfully and in moderation.Escapism vs mindfulnessThere are several psychologists who perceive escapism negatively. Often thought of as a way to avoid responsibilities. Excessive escapism could cause individuals to become increasingly disconnected from reality. It can become a crutch that inhibits personal growth and problem-solving, and in extreme cases, it can escalate into addictive behaviors. It’s worth calling this out. Some even argue that escapism is the opposite of mindfulness (source).While it's true that escapism can be a diversion from facing reality and seemingly at odds with mindfulness, it doesn't have to be seen in such a negative light. Engaging in a good book, video game, or movie, can provide a needed break from reality, which is not only healthy but necessary in managing stress. It gives us time to recharge and provides a mental buffer to deal with life and work.I’ll make the case more i...