Humans of Martech

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Stephen Stouffer, VP, Digital Transformation & Innovation at SaaScend.Summary: Stephen shares practical and innovative examples of combining AI tools with iPaaS tools to do things like parsing email auto-responses and subcontracting tech support questions from family members. He’s a fan of starting simple, gradually advancing to more complex solutions, all while maintaining a keen focus on ethical considerations and human interaction. We also cover growth potentials of having a stint in the agency world, is martech really for engineers and the benefits of thinking of emails like billboards on the highway. About StephenStephen started his career as a web developer before moving to a marketing analyst role where he got his first taste of marketing and sales alignment as well as marketing automationThis led him to a Marketing Automation Migration Manager role at Cheshire Impact where he managed over 25 platform migrations in less than a yearHe then worked in-house at a few software companies including iDonate, Thryv as well as FireMon – a security policy management platform where he served as Sr Manager of Marketing Operations and led all the magic behind each GTM programMost recently, Stephen’s returned to his agency roots as VP of Digital Transformation and Innovation at SaaScend – a 20-person revenue operations agencyAutomating Parental Tech Support with AIStephen's journey into automating tech support for his mom using AI showcases a blend of ingenuity and practicality. Faced with an array of tech-related questions from his mother, from resetting routers to converting recipes into different metric units, he sought a solution that could offer simple, direct answers without the clutter of search engine results. Recognizing the ease with which texting comes to his parents compared to navigating the internet, Stephen ingeniously integrated Twilio with GPT, leveraging Tray.io as the intermediary. This setup allows text messages to transform into queries for OpenAI's API, which then sends back clear, useful responses.The beauty of this system lies in its simplicity and effectiveness. By funneling questions through a familiar medium—text messaging—Stephen's mom can now access a wealth of information at her fingertips. Whether she's looking for new restaurant suggestions after moving to a new area or needs quick answers for her culinary adventures, the AI assistant provides concise, relevant information. This approach not only empowers his mother to find information independently but also maintains their daily communication, highlighting the importance of family connections amidst technological solutions.Key Takeaway: Stephen's inventive use of AI for handling his mother's tech support inquiries demonstrates the transformative potential of integrating simple technologies to solve everyday challenges. This strategy not only streamlines the process of obtaining information but also enriches the user's experience by delivering tailored answers through a preferred communication channel.Making Use of Email Auto-responses with ChatGPT and Tray.ioStephen's presentation at Dreamforce was a bold exploration of AI's potential in streamlining email management, a topic ripe with complexities and nuances. Opting for the risky path of live demos, he engaged his audience directly, inviting them to submit various types of emails into an open text field. Utilizing Tray.io as his iPaas tool of choice, these inputs were then processed through OpenAI's API to classify the emails and execute appropriate actions based on their nature—whether setting up follow-up tasks, unsubscribing contacts, or updating records in Salesforce and Pardot.This daring demonstration not only showcased the practical applications of AI in automating mundane tasks but also ignited discussions on data compliance and ethical considerations in AI usage. Stephen's session highlighted the efficiency and adaptability of AI in handling massive volumes of email responses, providing a glimpse into the future of digital communication management. The success of this live demo, buoyed by flawless internet connectivity, underscored the reliability and transformative power of AI in enhancing operational processes within the tech ecosystem.Stephen's process for integrating auto-responses from email clients into GPT is remarkably straightforward. By designating a reply-to address in your automation platform, all auto-responses are directed to a specific inbox. From there you create a forwarding rule for all incoming emails in that inbox to another address provided by Tray.io. This address acts as an endpoint, channeling the email content directly into the iPaas tool for processing. From there you can prompt ChatGPT by bringing in the payload of those individual emails.Despite the simplicity of this setup, Stephen cautions about the volume of data being handled, highlighting the importance of managing the flow to ensure accuracy in parsing and prompt building. This method not only simplifies the initial step of data collection but also underscores the intricacies involved in refining AI to perform nuanced tasks like accurately unsubscribing contacts.Key Takeaway: Stephen's Dreamforce presentation exemplified the innovative use of AI in automating useful tasks that are often left behind because of the manual nature. His live demo reinforced the potential of AI to transform mundane operational tasks into automated, intelligent workflows, setting a precedent for future applications in business and technology.Unveiling the Early Stages of AI in Marketing OperationsStephen's insights into the maturity of the martech market, particularly regarding the integration of AI into marketing operations, highlight a crucial phase of development that many professionals are navigating. His observations, shared after captivating the audience at Dreamforce, shed light on the novelty and potential of AI to revolutionize marketing practices. Stephen emphasizes that we are at the beginning of this journey, with much of the excitement and innovation concentrated in regions like North America, notably ahead of other areas such as Europe and Australia. This disparity showcases the varying pace of technological adoption across the globe, reminding us that advancements like marketing automation, now seen as standard in some parts, are just gaining traction elsewhere.Stephen points out a common misconception within the industry: the belief that AI's application is limited to those with deep technical expertise, such as data engineers. This notion, he argues, often overshadows the simpler, yet profoundly impactful uses of AI that can benefit marketers at all levels. For instance, AI's capability to generate email subject lines or assist in content ideation represents an accessible entry point for professionals seeking to leverage technology to streamline their workflows.The enthusiasm Stephen encountered post-Dreamforce, where attendees expressed astonishment at AI's capabilities, underscores a widespread underestimation of AI's current role and potential in marketing. This reaction suggests a gap between the perceived complexity of AI applications and the practical, immediate benefits they can offer. Stephen's approach to demystifying AI—highlighting straightforward applications and encouraging experimentation with basic tasks—provides a valuable roadmap for professionals looking to embrace AI without feeling overwhelmed.Through his experience, Stephen advocates for starting small with AI, focusing on automating simple tasks that can significantly enhance efficiency and creativity. This strategy not only makes ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Jessenia Francisco, Director, Marketing Operations at Lucid. Summary: Jessenia shares her journey from nonprofit to tech, emphasizing adaptability and purpose. She tackles imposter syndrome by fostering an inclusive culture, explores the strategic use of tools like Lucidchart in her own day to day, and advocates for mindful martech selection, particularly the integration of AI, balancing innovation with practicality. Her work with Women in Revenue underscores the power of mentorship in empowering women in revenue roles, highlighting the importance of community and strategic thinking for professional and personal growth. About JesseniaJessenia started her career in Finance at Merril Lynch and Bank of AmericaShe pivoted to the non profit space joining the Association of Latino Professionals for America where she started to get in fundraising operationsShe was later recruited by the NewSchools Venture Fund and moved out to the Bay area to roll out Salesforce across the organizationShe then joined the Opportunity Fund as Development Operations Manager focused on improving the donor acquisition process and marketing automation implementationJessenia then made the mega move to Asana where she started in Sales Operations and later pivoted to Marketing Operations leading Martech Program and eventually becoming Head of Marketing AutomationToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Lucid Software, the creators of the popular flowchart and diagram tool; LucidchartShifting from Counting Coins to Making ChangeJessenia's career evolution from finance to the nonprofit sector was not just a job change; it was a pursuit of impact over income. She sought to make a tangible difference, moving away from the profit-focused dialogues of her finance days towards creating systemic change. This quest for purpose led her to the nonprofit world, where she found the work deeply rewarding.Reflecting on her journey, Jessenia realized she had been involved in operations long before it became a recognized field, combining her analytical skills with business operations even during her finance tenure. This foundation served her well in the nonprofit sector, allowing her to apply her skills to support community-driven initiatives. She was particularly moved by the stories of the communities she worked with, finding a profound connection to the people and the transformative changes her efforts contributed to.At NewSchools Venture Fund, Jessenia experienced the intersection of venture philanthropy and educational reform. This organization, pioneering in merging investment with educational innovation, aimed to disrupt traditional learning models. She was fascinated by project-based learning, as seen in a Napa school, where even kindergartners engaged in complex concepts like velocity and gravity. Such moments underscored the significant impact of strategic funding in education.The nonprofit sector also presented Jessenia with numerous growth opportunities, from implementing CRMs to leading marketing operations. These experiences built her expertise in sales and marketing operations, highlighting the sector's potential for rapid professional development. Jessenia appreciated the creative challenges and the "champagne taste on a beer budget" mentality, which taught her to maximize limited resources effectively.However, Jessenia also faced challenges, including under-resourcing in technology and potential career stagnation. The nonprofit world's inclination to deprioritize tech investments and the limitations in career growth posed significant hurdles. Additionally, leadership changes and political dynamics within organizations could disrupt projects and affect the effectiveness of operations work.Key Takeaway: Jessenia's narrative reveals the dual nature of nonprofit work: its capacity to fulfill a deep-seated need for purpose and impact, juxtaposed with the practical challenges of limited resources and career growth ceilings. Her journey highlights the importance of adaptability, creativity, and a steadfast focus on mission-driven work amidst these challenges.Career Leaps From Small Ponds to Big Tech OceansJessenia's career leap from niche nonprofits to tech giants like Asana and Lucid sheds light on the value and versatility of working in different organizational sizes. Initially joining Asana when it was a relatively small team of 350, she quickly dispelled the myth that smaller entities lack significance. Her experience at Asana, a company that grew from a "cult classic" to a major player, exemplifies the unique advantages of smaller companies, such as a close-knit work culture and rapid adaptability.Small companies, Jessenia notes, offer a level of intimacy and direct impact that larger organizations can struggle to match. From knowing a colleague's preference for Diet Coke to having the ability to influence business outcomes directly, these environments foster a sense of community and effectiveness. Yet, she also confronts the misconception that privilege and pedigree are absent in smaller settings. Even in a tight-knit team, backgrounds of privilege and elite education can influence dynamics, something Jessenia encountered firsthand.However, as companies grow, maintaining the essence of a smaller organization's culture poses challenges. Jessenia emphasizes the importance of meeting people and business needs as they evolve, advocating for empathy and adaptability in processes. She warns against being wedded to past solutions or technologies, stressing the need to tailor approaches to the organization's current context rather than relying on what worked elsewhere.Key Takeaway: Jessenia makes the point that smaller companies offer a richness of experience and that you will need a nuanced approach if transitioning to or scaling within larger tech companies. She highlights the importance of adaptability, empathy, and a keen understanding of the unique dynamics at play, offering insights into successfully navigating career transitions and fostering personal and professional growth in any organizational landscape.Reflections on Overcoming Imposter SyndromeJessenia tackles imposter syndrome with a unique blend of emotional intelligence and mindful reflection. Instead of reacting on impulse, she takes time to process complex ideas, valuing collaboration over solitary effort. Recognizing when to ask for help has been crucial in her journey, turning potential hurdles into learning opportunities and stronger bonds with her colleagues.Her approach to leadership focuses on empowering her team, encouraging them to confidently express their insights and take ownership of their expertise. This method not only addresses imposter syndrome but also promotes a culture where accountability and teamwork thrive. Jessenia believes in the power of vulnerability and support, showing that admitting you don't know everything can be your greatest strength.Jessenia actively seeks out communities for both professional and personal growth, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. By engaging with networks, she ensures no one has to face difficulties alone, emphasizing the importance of collective wisdom and shared experiences.Key Takeaway: The cornerstone of her strategy against imposter syndrome lies in fostering environments where asking questions, seeking clarity, and valuing each team member's viewpoint are encouraged. This approach not only helps combat feelings of inadequacy but also strengthens the team's cohesion and effectiveness.Cracking the MOPs Code with Lucidchart's Vis...

Josh Kim, Growth Marketing Lead at Notion, shares insights on unified growth marketing frameworks, the marketer's role in a growth pod, and the power of experimentation. He discusses the synergy between community, product innovation, and growth, emphasizing continuous learning and strategic martech use. The podcast also explores the evolution of growth hacking, experiment prioritization using the RICE model, and streamlining processes for growth team success.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Debbie Mayen, Head of Marketing Operations at Logitech.Summary: Debbie went from dreaming of diplomacy to steering the global martech ship at Logitech and takes us through a masterclass in making well timed bets and the art of simplifying martech. Her marketing operations mantra includes clear processes, open lines of communication, and giving her team the reins to shine. She walks us through why she’s big on the whole marketing-meets-IT vibe, pushing for teamwork that taps into the best of both. And how her focus on celebrating wins and building an anti-fragile culture is key to withstanding chaos and uncertainty in a profession riddled with burnout. About DeborahDeborah got her start as an International Project Manager where she led big IT projects, and later pivoted to international MARCOM projects and bizdevThis led Deborah to a pivotal role as Marketing and comms manager at Encyclopaedia Britannica where she would spend 7 years managing marketing activities in Latin America and BrazilShe also spent 5 years as a Marketing Automation Project Leader at Molex – where she was focused on optimizing tech stack and lead generation processesToday, Deborah is Head of Global Marketing Operations at Logitech, where her team drives operational excellence for Logitech's B2B Marketing team focused on strategy and automation, segmentation and ABM Embracing Nonlinear Paths into MartechDebbie's foray into the world of martech is a tale of unexpected turns and adaptation. Growing up with a nomadic lifestyle due to her father's career in the oil industry, Debbie was exposed to diverse cultures and languages from an early age. This multicultural upbringing sparked an initial desire to pursue a career in international law or diplomacy. However, as she ventured through university, the reality of the constant movement and its impact on family life led her to reconsider her career trajectory.Opting for a more stable living situation, Debbie still yearned to maintain her connection to the international sphere. This longing eventually steered her toward the realm of international business, landing her a role at Encyclopedia Britannica, focusing on the Latin American market. It was here, amidst the challenge of managing a vast geographic area with a limited budget, that Debbie stumbled upon martech.In the early days of martech, with fewer than 200 vendors and most tools available only in English, resources were scarce. Yet, this did not deter Debbie. Leveraging tools like Silverpop, she ingeniously maximized her small budget to achieve significant impact across Latin America. This experience not only honed her skills but also ignited a passion for martech, drawn to its capacity for measurable results and efficient campaign management without the need for expanding her team.Debbie's entry into martech was born out of necessity but flourished into a deep-seated love for the field. Her journey reflects a seamless blend of her identity and her professional path, showcasing how embracing change and leveraging available resources can lead to unexpected and rewarding destinations.Key Takeaway: Debbie's transition from aspiring diplomat to martech enthusiast underscores the power of adaptability and the unexpected paths our careers can take. Her story is a testament to the impact of embracing one’s background and challenges as opportunities for growth and innovation in the ever-evolving martech landscape.Navigating the Dawn of MartechDebbie's entrance into the martech scene came at a time when the landscape was vastly different from today's sprawling ecosystem. Reflecting on Scott Brinker's landscape charts, she recalls a period of consolidation and the nascent stages of martech, drawing parallels to the current explosion of AI tools in the sector. For Debbie, the early days presented both challenges and opportunities. The relatively small number of tools available meant she could delve deeper into the resources at her disposal, turning limitations into advantages.This era of martech was marked by significant acquisitions, such as Silverpop's integration into IBM's portfolio and Pardot's acquisition by Salesforce, signifying the beginning of industry consolidation. For Debbie, being part of the martech field from its inception allowed her to develop a comprehensive understanding of marketing automation platforms, a knowledge that would set the foundation for her future expertise.Her early start in martech endowed her with the ability to navigate the ever-expanding landscape without getting overwhelmed by the plethora of choices available today. Debbie's journey underscores the importance of foundational knowledge and the advantage of focusing deeply on available tools before branching out. As the martech landscape continues to grow, her experience offers valuable lessons in staying grounded amidst the noise and the allure of new technologies.Key Takeaway: Debbie's early experiences in the evolving martech landscape highlight the benefits of deep specialization and a focused approach to technology adoption. Her story is a testament to the power of leveraging limited resources for maximum impact and the importance of discerning evaluation in the face of rapid industry expansion.The Art of Simplifying MartechDebbie champions a philosophy of simplicity in navigating the galaxy of martech tools. She believes in a measured approach, cautioning against the allure of new technologies without a clear understanding of organizational needs. For Debbie, each addition to the martech stack represents not just potential benefits but also added complexity and potential debt. She emphasizes a cost-benefit analysis to ensure the advantages of any new tool significantly outweigh the costs, considering factors like team workload, system integration, and the tool's alignment with the company's evolving goals.This practical mindset extends to prioritizing work-life balance for her team and ensuring that any new technology seamlessly integrates into existing systems without creating unnecessary burdens. Debbie's old-school martech perspective of "less is more" serves as a guiding principle, advocating for a focus on what truly adds value and drives forward the company's objectives.Key Takeaway: Debbie's strategy in martech selection is grounded in simplicity and practicality, underscoring the importance of a discerning approach to tool adoption. Her advice encourages a balance between embracing innovation and maintaining a streamlined, effective martech stack that aligns with both immediate and long-term business goals.Navigating the Challenges of Marketing Operations at LogitechAt Logitech, the marketing operations team faces the intricate challenge of serving various internal and external stakeholders across different groups and brands. Debbie highlights that the key to managing these challenges lies in recognizing the team's central role as a service arm within the organization. With each business group having unique demands, it becomes crucial to maintain a bird's-eye view of all requests, ensuring no group is unaware of the others' needs.Process orientation emerges as a fundamental strategy for the mops team. By adhering to well-defined processes, the team not only safeguards the quality of their work but also empowers themselves to manage and prioritize requests effectively. Debbie stresses the importance of clarity and communication in this dynamic environment. She encourages her team to engage in open dialogues with stakeholders, offering the ability to push back on requests when necessary, provided it's done with clear reasoning and possible alternatives.This approach fosters a culture where markete...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ezra Fishman, VP of Growth at Wistia. About EzraEzra started his career as an engineer developing devices to help treat diabetes and obesity at GI DynamicsHe later had a short stint as an Operations Manager at an investment firm that was dedicated to funding health tech startupsAfter completing his MBA, Ezra joined a video tech startup called Wistia as their Director of Marketing and after 4 years he transitioned to leading Business IntelligenceToday Ezra is VP of Growth at Wistia where he’s now spent over 12 years, seeing the company grow from a handful of customers to over 375,000 and becoming one of the top vPaaS tools on the planetSummary: Ezra is a strategic and technical visionary at Wistia. He combines an audience-first content strategy with a data-informed approach to drive sustainable growth. He emphasizes the importance of genuine relationships over transactions and advocates for leveraging data to inform decisions while valuing human intuition. His journey from initiating a central data warehouse to implementing tools like Census, Fivetran, and dbt showcases how a single source of truth can enhance operational efficiency. Ezra's experience, from fostering a data-informed culture to embracing a scrappy startup mentality with a focus on high-impact ideas and rigorous A/B testing, reflects a commitment to strategic evolution and the balance between data and creativity. His insights offer invaluable lessons on growing and engaging with audiences in meaningful ways, advocating for a blend of strategy, intuition, and data-informed decisions in marketing.From Wistia’s First Customer to Early Team MemberImagine this: Ezra, initially just a fan from the sidelines, watching Wistia, a fledgling startup by his buddies Chris Savage and Brendan Schwartz, trying to carve its niche in the world of video. This journey from an intrigued observer to Wistia's first customer, and eventually, a pivotal team member, is nothing short of a cinematic twist.Back in the day, while Ezra was navigating the complexities of medical devices, Chris and Brendan were brainstorming Wistia's next big thing. The plot thickens when Ezra, amidst casual banter in their Boston living room, pitches a game-changing idea sparked by his own professional hurdles. Picture this: medical procedures generating heaps of video data, with the only sharing option being the archaic method of mailing DVDs worldwide. Enter Ezra's lightbulb moment—why not transform Wistia into a haven for secure, efficient video collaboration?Fast forward to Wistia marking its foray into uncharted territories. This wasn't just about ditching DVDs for digital; it was about reimagining how professionals could leverage video for learning and collaboration.The narrative takes a delightful turn when, over a lunch filled with reminiscing and future-gazing, Chris and Brendan propose a novel idea to Ezra. With a shared laugh over their collective naiveté in marketing and business management, they decide to join forces. This was the moment of serendipity, the kind that you'd find in tales of old, where the hero embarks on an unforeseen quest.Wistia's storyline evolves with a bold strategic pivot, transitioning from a focus on internal video sharing to mastering the art of video marketing. This wasn't merely a shift in services; it was a leap towards redefining Wistia’s essence. The introduction of video embeds and performance tracking was akin to discovering a new continent in the realm of video marketing. This pivot was the catalyst for an explosive growth, attracting a myriad of users and establishing Wistia as a beacon in the marketing universe.Ezra's saga with Wistia illustrates a kaleidoscope of lessons: the beauty of perspective, the strength found in adaptability, and the magic of seizing hidden opportunities. It's a testament to how internal insights can dramatically alter a company's course, steering it towards realms of untapped potential and success.Key Takeaway: Ezra's journey with Wistia showcases the power of leveraging personal experiences to spot unique opportunities in the professional sphere. His story teaches us the importance of staying open to unexpected career paths and the transformative potential of internal insights. For any professional, Ezra's narrative is a reminder to embrace adaptability and look beyond conventional boundaries, because sometimes, the next big shift in your career or business strategy could emerge from your own unique challenges and observations.Ezra's Audience-First Philosophy Beyond Funnel VisionEzra's reflections on Wistia's early content strategy are a testament to the power of foresight and the courage to challenge the status quo. In an era dominated by the lead capture mantra, the idea of prioritizing audience engagement over immediate conversions was nothing short of revolutionary. Ezra's insights into this paradigm shift reveal not just a tactical change, but a philosophical evolution in marketing.At the heart of this transformation was a simple observation: content that educates, engages, and entertains fosters a community of brand advocates. Ezra noticed early on that content about video production on a budget or maximizing video effectiveness wasn't just filling up space on Wistia's blog; it was actively drawing people into a conversation with the brand. This wasn't engagement that could be easily quantified by the number of leads generated, but its impact was undeniable. Website visits and signups surged post-publication, showcasing the tangible benefits of nurturing an audience.This observation led to a critical realization: gating content might boost lead numbers temporarily, but it dampens genuine engagement. The stark contrast between open access and restricted content provided clear evidence that the key to sustained growth was fostering an environment where quality trumped quantity. This approach required a commitment to producing stellar content that people didn't just stumble upon but sought out and shared.Ezra's philosophy underscores a critical marketing truth: building an audience is about cultivating relationships, not just capturing data points. This mindset shift from a focus on quantity to a dedication to quality was, at the time, a bold stance that set Wistia apart. It wasn't about bombarding people with sales pitches but about drawing them into a meaningful dialogue with the brand.This audience-first approach is not just about creating fans; it's about building a community that grows organically, powered by the quality of interaction and content. The lesson here is clear: when marketers prioritize genuine engagement over short-term metrics, they lay the foundation for lasting growth and brand loyalty.Key Takeaway: Ezra's strategic pivot to an audience-first approach at Wistia highlights the lasting value of building genuine relationships over transactional interactions. In today's content-saturated world, the brands that stand out are those that treat their audience not as leads to be captured but as a community to be cultivated. This philosophy doesn't just elevate a brand's marketing game; it transforms customers into advocates, ensuring sustainable growth and a competitive edge.Data-Informed Instead of Data-DrivenEzra's path through the diverse landscapes of marketing, business intelligence (BI), and growth at Wistia is a narrative about the confluence of data and human insight. His tenure, marked by wearing multiple hats across different roles, underscores a singular truth: the realms of marketing, BI, and growth, despite their distinctions, share a common core centered around attracting and engaging people, converting them, and leveraging data for informed decision-making.Ezra, self-...

Summary: Justin is a polished voice of reason in martech. In our conversation, he focused on the practicality of AI, highlighting its capability to transform data into actionable insights, aiding in a deeper understanding of customer needs. We also covered the shift towards flexible, composable tech stacks and the importance of diverse skills alongside a few Sci-fi references. He also proposed a transparent, Shark Tank-style approach for selecting martech vendors, underscoring the need for effective evaluation methods. This episode offers practical guidance for marketers aiming to navigate the rise of gen AI in marketing.Balancing Opportunity and Skepticism With AI in Marketing Justin's insights highlight a critical juncture in marketing technology: the integration of AI, specifically GPT-4, into daily practices. He acknowledges the prevalent fear of missing out (FOMO) among marketers, emphasizing the importance of staying abreast with AI advancements. Justin points out the dual nature of this fear: the anxiety about falling behind and the apprehension towards the implications of AI in marketing. His perspective reflects a cautious yet necessary embrace of technology.Interestingly, Justin positions himself as a technologist with a skeptical eye, wary of jumping onto the latest trend without due diligence. This approach is particularly relevant in a field bombarded with yearly hype cycles. His focus on adding value rather than noise is commendable. By mapping out AI's potential use cases in marketing, Justin contributes to a more structured understanding of this technology. He shifts the conversation from mere adoption to thoughtful integration, ensuring AI's relevance and applicability to marketing operations.The idea of mapping AI's role in marketing is not just about adoption but about understanding where and how it fits into the broader marketing strategy. Justin's approach of breaking down and analyzing different aspects of AI in marketing is crucial for its effective utilization. His methodical and analytical approach towards AI adoption in marketing is a testament to the need for balance - recognizing the potential of new technology while maintaining a healthy skepticism.Key takeaway: Marketers should balance the excitement of AI's potential with a thoughtful, structured approach to its integration into marketing operations. Understanding and mapping AI's practical applications in marketing can turn the fear of missing out into an opportunity for innovation and strategic advancement.Transitioning Rule-Based to AI-Driven Marketing StrategiesJustin delves into the complexities of transitioning from traditional rule-based automation to AI-driven approaches like next best action and propensity modeling in marketing. This shift, he points out, is not just a technological upgrade but a fundamental change in how marketing campaigns are conceptualized and executed. His insights are particularly relevant for marketing teams accustomed to rule-based systems and now facing the challenge of integrating more sophisticated, AI-powered models.The promise of AI in marketing, especially in next best action scenarios, is substantial. Justin notes that while the concept has been a long-sought 'Holy Grail,' it's now becoming a practical reality. However, he cautions against being swept away by the technological possibilities without considering their practical implications. The key, according to Justin, is to subordinate the technology to what works effectively as a marketer, always keeping the customer context in focus.For B2C scenarios or low-value product-led growth motions, AI-driven recommendations can be incredibly effective. However, Justin points out the limitations in complex B2B contexts, such as selling high-value products or services. These scenarios involve decision committees, contracts, and multiple stakeholders, where a simple AI-generated email is unlikely to clinch a deal. He suggests a more nuanced application of AI, perhaps integrating insights from sales calls or digital body language to tailor communications more effectively.Regarding quality assurance in AI-driven marketing, Justin highlights the potential pitfalls. He shares an example of an AI-generated email that was impressively detailed yet glaringly inaccurate, underscoring the brand risk associated with unmoderated AI content. This example illustrates the current necessity for a human in the loop, balancing AI's efficiency with the nuanced understanding that only human oversight can provide.Key takeaway: Justin's perspective on integrating AI into marketing strategies emphasizes a thoughtful, customer-centric approach. The shift from rule-based to AI-driven models demands not only technological adoption but also a strategic reevaluation of marketing practices. The balance between leveraging AI's capabilities and maintaining human oversight is crucial to navigate this transition successfully, ensuring that marketing efforts remain effective and resonate authentically with the target audience.Balancing AI Adoption with Practical Realities in MarketingJustin addresses the emotional aspect of adopting AI in marketing, acknowledging the tension between the excitement of AI's potential and the reality of its practical application. This emotional dimension is often overlooked in the rush to embrace new technology. Justin highlights the challenge of integrating AI without losing the human element, a concern particularly relevant in an era where personalization and authenticity are crucial.The key, according to Justin, is to find a balance between being at the forefront of AI adoption and ensuring that the technology genuinely enhances marketing efforts. He shares his strategy of assessing AI tools based on their feasibility and impact. Some applications, like AI-generated LinkedIn posts, might be feasible but not necessarily advisable due to their impact on authenticity and personal engagement. On the other hand, AI-generated imagery offers significant benefits, producing unique and compelling visuals that surpass traditional stock images.Justin's approach is driven by the practical benefits of AI, focusing on areas where AI can offer substantial support. For instance, processing large volumes of unstructured text, a tedious task for humans, is an area where AI can provide significant relief. His advice for listeners is to let their needs guide their adoption of AI, rather than succumbing to the pressure of forced adoption. By doing so, they can leverage AI where it truly adds value, enhancing their work while retaining the essential human touch.Key takeaway: In martech, the adoption of AI should be driven by practicality and real needs, rather than the pressure to conform to trends. Evaluating AI tools based on their feasibility and impact ensures that their integration enhances marketing efforts without compromising the human element that remains essential to effective communication.AI as a Tool for Enhancing Creative MarketingJustin discusses the role of AI in transforming unstructured data into actionable insights, particularly in the context of marketing and content creation. He touches upon an intriguing shift from the traditional focus on quantitative data to the exploration of qualitative insights through AI tools. This shift is significant, especially in an era where content creators and marketers have predominantly leaned towards quantitative analysis.Justin reflects on the unique nature of creative work and the essential human insights that drive its excellence. He is of the view that certain aspects of creativity and human consciousness are inherently unique and cannot be replicated by AI. In his analogy, AI is like a highly responsive paintbrush, capable of executing tasks based on verbal instructions, y...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Crissy Saunders, CEO and Co-Founder at CS2. Summary: Crissy takes us through the evolution from tactical management to strategic leadership, and the adaptation to changing marketing strategies. We discuss the significance of specialized platforms in marketing automation, the critical role of the sales funnel in revenue growth, the shift in email marketing towards 'inbox influence', and revitalizing outbound marketing strategies. This episode is a concise yet profound guide, offering actionable insights for martech professionals to navigate their careers and strategies effectively.About CrissyCrissy started her career at Marketo when the company was only 4 years old. She was quickly promoted to Marketing Ops manager where she led weekly training of internal users as well as lead management and technical execution for enterprise clientsShe then moved over to Jive Software as Global Marketing Operations Manager and later Agari as a Sr Demand Gen manager She co founded Walkzee, an app that connected sheltered dogs with dog lovers who needed a walking buddyShe also co-founded CS2 with her husband Charlie, a martech agency that powers efficient and predictable revenue which has grown to over 15 team members and has served some of the coolest brands including Gong, Sendoso, Coursera and SalesLoftShe also finds time to be a podcast co-host, a women in revenue co-founder, a partner at MKT1 and an advisor for Syncari and ChilipiperNavigating the Dual Dynamics of Marriage and Business in MartechCrissy's journey with her husband Charlie in the realm of marketing operations (martech ops) is a testament to how personal and professional relationships can synergize effectively. Their story began in a work environment, where they were assigned to different global roles. Crissy, based in Palo Alto, and Charlie, working from the EMEA office, quickly realized the need for a counterpart due to the time difference. This necessity sparked their collaboration.Their work dynamic evolved as they discovered not only their professional compatibility but also a personal connection. This dual relationship blossomed into marriage, and after a year of living apart, they decided to venture into consulting. The transition from employees to business owners was facilitated by their solid professional background and the initial success in acquiring clients. This success was a result of their extensive network and the burgeoning field of marketing and sales operations, which at the time, was not as recognized as it is today.Their business, initially named CSU Marketing, evolved to focus on revenue operations, reflecting their diverse expertise beyond just marketing ops. They attribute their successful business partnership to aligning on business goals, leveraging each other's strengths, and maintaining constant communication. Daily meetings help them stay connected and address priorities, a luxury not all business leaders share.However, blending personal and professional life has its challenges. Discussions about the business often spill into their personal time, but they view this as a constructive process. Differences in opinion are not seen as conflicts but as opportunities for 'storming' – a phase in the McKinsey framework – leading to innovative solutions. This approach underscores their ability to balance their roles as business partners and life partners.Key takeaway: Crissy and Charlie's experience highlights the importance of communication, alignment of goals, and leveraging individual strengths in a business partnership. Their journey from colleagues to spouses and business partners demonstrates that professional and personal relationships can coexist and thrive, provided there's a clear understanding of roles, constant communication, and a positive approach to resolving differences.Elevating from Tactical Manager to Strategic Leader in MartechCrissy sheds light on a crucial challenge in the martech sector: the transition from a tactical, technology-focused manager to a strategic, business-minded director. In her view, the key to success in operations roles lies in balancing tactical knowledge with evolving strategic approaches. Understanding the operational landscape and keeping abreast of technological possibilities are vital for leaders in this field.She emphasizes the importance of building a solid operational foundation rather than being mired in constant 'firefighting' mode. This foundation is crucial for moving beyond immediate tactical challenges and focusing on long-term strategic goals. Crissy advises against solely aiming for a position where one only manages people and devises strategies. A true leader in martech needs to grasp the practical aspects of the technology they oversee, even if not involved in the hands-on work.Her tips for professionals aspiring to advance include aligning with business goals and key metrics, particularly those of the revenue team. She advises creating a flexible roadmap that accommodates unforeseen challenges while ensuring that the team remains focused on impactful, long-term projects. Moreover, she underscores the importance of data analysis and insights in driving operational efficiency and informing higher-level decisions.Key takeaway: To progress from a tactical role to a strategic leadership position in martech, professionals need to balance their technical knowledge with an understanding of evolving business strategies. Building a solid operational foundation, aligning with key business goals, and emphasizing data analysis are essential steps. Success in this transition requires not just managing teams but also possessing a deep understanding of the technology and strategies that drive the business forward.The Challenges of Unbundling Marketing Automation PlatformsCrissy delves into the complexities of unbundling marketing automation platforms in the current martech environment. She identifies several issues that make this process challenging, particularly for established operations. The primary concerns include understaffing, high turnover, and the necessity for comprehensive training on these tools.Marketing automation platforms offer a wide range of functionalities, which can be both a blessing and a curse. While they provide a one-stop solution for various needs, Crissy points out that many features often go unused, leading to questions about cost-effectiveness. However, the real worry lies in the management and upkeep of these systems. The existing tech debt in marketing automation and CRM platforms complicates the situation further.Crissy suggests that while the idea of a more flexible, composable solution is appealing, especially for small and medium businesses (SMBs) focusing on profitability and investment appeal, the historical and operational challenges in B2B settings make it a difficult transition. She also highlights the potential benefits of having a single tool to master, simplifying contract management and expertise development within teams.The future of marketing automation, according to Crissy, lies not in the immediate unbundling of these platforms but in the advancements and specialization of these tools. She emphasizes the need for marketing ops professionals to choose platforms based on their specific use case...

Josh Hill, GTN operations and tech executive with 20+ years of experience, discusses integrating sales experience into marketing, hands-on martech tools, blending creativity with technical know-how, the importance of high-quality data for AI implementation, and maintaining work-life balance in martech.

What’s up everyone, today we have the honor of sitting down with a true martech Jedi Master: Paul Wilson, Founder and Chief Strategist at GTM Systems.Summary: Paul wielded his lightsaber of wisdom, skillfully navigating the nebula of modern marketing technology and the rise of generative AI. He shared insights on the strategic dance of early freelancing in martech during the dawn of marketing automation and how there are similar opportunities today with harnessing the Force of generative AI. We delved into marketing operations, where professionals are like astute navigators of starships, steering through the complex cosmos of data management and AI integration. Paul's approach emphasized the importance of emotional intelligence and human intuition in a digital marketing realm. This episode was a hyperdrive journey through the galaxy of martech, peering into the future and illuminating the path for marketers to balance the Force of technological advancement with the art of human creativity.About PaulPaul kicked off his career in software sales in cybersecurity and was later introduced to the intricate world of email and martech at an Ottawa-based startup that offered anti-spam and anti-virus email filtering softwareHe would also start his moonlighting freelance career, founding CRM Nerds where he would provide strategic leadership for martech implementations for a variety of brandsAfter a short stint at Bell as a PM for their CRM business solutions, Paul led martech and salestech at two startups, dna13 – an Ottawa-based brand reputation management tool and Klocwork – a Minneapolis-based developer productivity tool Paul also worked at two agencies, first at Shift CRM as a Salesforce Consultant in Ottawa and later at Perkuto as a Senior Solutions Architect in DenverHe then made the mega move to Marketo, first focusing on Partner Development and later as the Head of Martech and Innovation. After their acquisition by Adobe, Paul was one of the leads on the project to implement Marketo for all of Adobe’s B2B businessThe mega moves didn’t stop there though, Paul took on the role of Senior Director of Marketing Operations at Slack and was later promoted to VP after the Salesforce acquisitionFinally, after a short stint at OneTrust, Paul strapped on his jetpack and went out on his own to found GTM Systems, dedicated to preparing business to harness the power of gen AIFreelancing Early in Martech is a Strategic Choice for Career DevelopmentWe kicked off our discussion with Pau by asking him to take us back to his early days at CRM Nerds, where he undertook an independent consulting project with Chipworks, a small business in Kanata. Interestingly, this was Phil’s first tech job, marking a significant point in his career. Paul's work at Chipworks not only influenced Phil's interest in marketing operations but also raises an important question about the traditional career advice in martech. Typically, newcomers are advised to delay freelancing until they gain more experience and a larger network. However, Paul's experience suggests that for those with advanced skills and specialization, early freelancing could be a strategic advantage.During the nascent stages of martech, specifically around 2012-2013, Paul chose to freelance at a time when marketing technology was just beginning to take off. The industry was in dire need of experts who could navigate these new waters, and mature agencies were yet to build a team of experienced professionals. Paul's decision to freelance offered him a unique opportunity to work with diverse organizational structures and challenges, significantly enhancing his skill set and expertise.Paul's story serves as an example for those considering freelancing in the early stages of their career. The current state of martech and generative AI, according to him, mirrors the early 2010s. He observes a stagnation in marketing automation but anticipates a new wave of growth driven by generative technologies. As many professionals embrace independent consulting in 2023, Paul believes that their ability to adapt and apply their skills in this changing landscape will be crucial.Key takeaway: Early freelancing in martech, particularly for those with specialized skills, offers a strategic edge. It not only broadens experience but also hastens skill development. In the current martech landscape, similar to the early 2010s, adaptability is key. With generative technologies driving growth, professionals, especially independent consultants, must adapt and apply their skills to thrive in this evolving sector.Navigating Generative AI in the Martech LandscapePaul delves into the burgeoning realm of generative AI within martech, addressing the challenges and opportunities it presents for organizations. As an independent consultant, he shares valuable insights into integrating tools like ChatGPT and leveraging generative AI for enhancing marketing and sales strategies. This conversation is especially relevant considering our own experience with incorporating these technologies into our toolkit, including this podcast.The first key point Paul emphasizes is awareness. He illustrates this with the classic steps meme: a person with one foot on an escalator several steps higher than the other, symbolizing the disconnect between a CEO's perception of generative AI capabilities and the organization's actual position. This gap in awareness is where many companies struggle. Paul stresses the importance of understanding where an organization currently stands in its readiness to adopt these technologies.Paul touches on the necessity of a solid data foundation. He points out that fragmented data across silos impedes the effective implementation of generative AI. The quality, accessibility, and integration of data are crucial for creating a cohesive and scalable generative experience.Lastly, Paul discusses the organizational impact of adopting generative AI. He underscores the need for robust privacy and data governance policies. Organizations must evaluate how these technologies align with their existing structures and policies to avoid potential pitfalls like data leakage or misuse.Paul is currently focused on helping companies initiate their journey into this new era. He aids them in assessing their capabilities and readiness, a crucial first step in building a strategic roadmap for leveraging generative AI effectively.Key takeaway: Successfully integrating generative AI in martech hinges on three main factors: organizational awareness of current capabilities, a solid and integrated data foundation, and a thorough understanding of the organizational impact, including data governance and privacy policies. This strategic approach enables companies to navigate the complexities of generative AI and harness its full potential.How Marketing Operations Drives the Butterfly Effect in AI-Driven MartechPaul sheds light on the evolving role of marketing operations in the age of AI and generative technologies. The conversation pivots on the long-standing emphasis on data management in marketing, a topic now gaining widespread attention due to its critical role in AI integration. Paul agrees that the longstanding advice about the importance of clean, well-managed data is more relevant than ever, especially as businesses increasingly turn to AI and generative technologies.Paul observes that marketing operations professionals are now the custodians of digital experiences. He reflects on the evolution of the field, noting how roles and responsibilities have shifted over time. For instance, the emergence of platforms like Outreach and SalesLoft around 2...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with the acclaimed Britney Muller, Founder and Consultant at Data Sci 101 and former Senior SEO Scientist at Moz. Summary: Britney takes us on a wild ride through the intersection of marketing and AI, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and ethical considerations. Britney's journey from SEO to AI illustrates the need for data literacy and strategic decision-making in marketing. She delves into the ethical nuances of AI, discussing the limitations of LLMs and the importance of transparency and responsible development. Highlighting the human element in AI, Britney advocates for balancing technological advancements with human creativity and intuition, and underscores the transformative potential of AI across various sectors. This episode is a compelling call to action for professionals to harmoniously blend technical expertise with ethical mindfulness in the rapidly evolving martech landscape.About BritneyBritney started her career when she moved to Breckenridge Colorado chasing fresh snow and snowboard hills. She connected with a local realtor who introduced her to SEO and after discovering search data, she never looked backShe spent 7 months preparing to rank her personal site for the term “Burton US Open” and ended up ranking ahead of Burton.com and received a call from their marketing team who invited her to dinner This spurred her to start her own agency which she ran for several successful years but after being on the cutting edge of SEO and doing the speaking circuit at conferences around the world, Britney started getting hungry for a new challenge: enter Machine LearningShe stumbled upon Harvard’s Data Science 109 course after searching Github repos and dived super deep into this new field She was eventually poached by Moz where she spent 4 years as Senior SEO Scientist where she re-wrote the Beginner's Guide to SEO amongst a bunch of other content and continued her SEO researchShe later joined Hugging Face, the fastest-growing Machine Learning community & open-source ML platformToday Britney has returned to her entrepreneurial roots as a Machine Learning & SEO consultant and the Founder of Data Sci 101 with the goal of making LLMs like ChatGPT as accessible as possibleEmbracing Machine Learning: A Journey from SEO to AIBritney's journey from SEO expertise to machine learning is a testament to the power of curiosity and continuous learning. Nearly a decade ago, while most in the martech field were focused solely on traditional methods, Britney's unique passion for learning and experimentation led her to explore machine learning. This shift was fueled by her desire for a new challenge, as she felt she had reached the zenith of her SEO experiments.The pivotal moment came when she took the Harvard CS 109 course on machine learning. This experience opened her eyes to the transformative potential of feeding data to models and letting them learn patterns independently. The tangible results and potential applications she witnessed were not just intellectually stimulating but also professionally inspiring. As machine learning evolved, so did Britney's skills. She recalls the early days of TensorFlow, where complex lines of code were required for basic functions, which have now been simplified drastically.Britney's approach to machine learning is unique. She enjoys taking existing models and reengineering them for different applications, a process she describes as akin to being a 'Frankenstein developer.' This creative tinkering led to practical applications and fun experiments, like her first MNIST model, which could recognize handwritten numbers with high accuracy. Her pride in this achievement underscores her deep connection to her work and the joy it brings her.Key takeaway: Britney's transition from SEO to machine learning highlights the importance of pursuing passions and continuous learning in professional development. Her success stems from her willingness to embrace new challenges and innovate by reapplying existing technologies in novel ways. This story is a reminder that staying curious and adaptable is crucial in the ever-progressing field of martech.Data Literacy: Bridging the Gap in MarketingBritney's endeavor with Data Sci 101 aligns perfectly with her goals of educating the martech community and fostering a well-informed approach to AI and ML. She emphasizes the importance of statistical knowledge in marketing, a skill often overlooked in traditional marketing education. Britney's passion for sharing knowledge is driven by her discovery of the significant gap in data literacy within the marketing industry. This gap, she believes, hinders marketers from making more strategic decisions and finding better insights.Her approach to education in this field is both innovative and practical. Britney focuses on creating content that is engaging and accessible, breaking down complex topics into understandable segments. She draws inspiration from her friend Daisy Quaker's approach, emphasizing the need to repurpose extensive resources into more digestible formats - akin to turning a large turkey into multiple turkey sandwiches. This analogy perfectly encapsulates her method of making complex data science concepts more palatable for the average marketer.Britney's journey in educating others began with her own realization of the lack of statistical training in her marketing career. This led her to delve deeper into data science, allowing her to identify and address the gaps in knowledge within the marketing community. Her efforts are not just about imparting knowledge but also about empowering marketers to leverage data more effectively in their strategies.Key takeaway: Britney's initiative with Data Sci 101 highlights the critical need for data literacy in the marketing world. Her commitment to educating her peers about the importance of statistical knowledge and her innovative approach to content creation serve as a model for making complex subjects accessible and engaging. This endeavor not only enhances the skill set of marketers but also paves the way for more data-informed and strategic decision-making in the industry.Deciphering the Alien Nature of Large Language ModelsBritney's analogy of large language models (LLMs) as aliens provides a unique perspective on the intricacies of AI in the martech world. She recalls one of the more technical textbooks she read on LLMs and how the author compares LLMs to beings in a black cave, fed with the world's texts but lacking a true understanding of human experiences and languages' nuances. This vivid imagery conveys the idea that, while LLMs are proficient in processing and mimicking language patterns, they fall short in grasping the depth and context of real-world experiences and specialized knowledge.Britney's approach to explaining complex concepts through relatable analogies reflects her commitment to making the abstract more accessible. Her use of post-it notes to jot down everyday analogies like baseball references showcases her inventive method of communication. This approach is crucial in a field where the technology is often abstract and difficult for the average person to grasp.“LLMs are essentially aliens from a different universe: while they have access to all our world’s text, they lack genuine comprehension of languages, nuances of our reality, and the intricacies of human experience and knowledge.” - Britney Muller, Introduction to LLMs, part 1. This alien analogy underlines a significant limitatio...