Humans of Martech

Emily Kramer discusses the rise of pi-shaped marketers and selecting future unicorns. She emphasizes the importance of picking startups that value marketing and meeting real needs. Emily advocates for leveraging marketing skills in angel investing and internal advocacy, enhancing startup viability and team alignment.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Anthony Lamot 🐧, CEO and Co-Founder at DESelect. Summary: From early stage founder advice and keeping up with the galaxy of martech tools to email fatigue and AI’s convergence with neuroscience, this episode journeys through deep marketing space. Anthony gives us practical advice for tracking martech trends but also keeping the timeless fundamentals in mind. We take a pit stop in email marketing land discussing true personalization, engagement tactics without overwhelming users, and if we’re really ready to give the wheel to AI (spoiler, we’re not). We also explored innovative uses of ChatGPT, the speculative future of AI and neuroscience and how to thoughtfully integrate AI into your product.About AnthonyAnthony started his career as a CRM consultant at Deloitte Belgium where he got his first taste of SFDCHe moved over to Waeg (wahg) as a business & tech consultant where he continued advising companies on CRM but also started expanding to martechHe later joined 4C as a Lead Consultant for Marketing AutomationHe took a turn in-house on a 1 year contract as Marketing Automation Lead at Toyota Europe where he rolled out SFMCDuring his consulting years, Anthony teamed up with his friend Jonathan where they met at Deloitte and they each started three startups from scratch, of which the first one was togetherIn 2019, Anthony and his co-founder went all in on their 4th startup; DESelect  Today, over 1000 organizations use the marketing optimization platform, including T-Mobile, Volvo and Cornell University and many moreTaking the Entrepreneurial PlungeAnthony was asked about what steps should be taken by those looking to start their own business, and his advice was nothing short of bold: drop everything else and dive in. He likens this to a dramatic moment from history—imagine being at the siege of Troy where the commander torches your only ride home. It's a vivid picture of commitment; there's no going back, so you might as well give this fight everything you've got. This total commitment, Anthony argues, is crucial because it keeps you sharp and wholly focused on your venture.He openly admits that feeling 100% sure of yourself all the time isn't realistic. Doubts creep in, and that's normal. But, Anthony believes in a kind of all-or-nothing approach. It's either you make it, or you don't, and while this sounds stark, it simplifies many decisions and helps keep your spirits up. According to him, being an entrepreneur is about pushing past your comfort zone and constantly dealing with the discomfort of uncertainty.Confidence does more than just keep you moving forward; it's also a beacon for others. When you believe deeply in what you're doing, it shows, and that energy is magnetic. It attracts the right kind of people to your team—those who are not just skilled but who also share your passion and drive.Key takeaway: Dive deep into your entrepreneurial journey with no backups to distract you. This level of commitment sharpens focus and fosters a necessary resilience that not only propels you forward but also draws in a team as dedicated as you are. This combined momentum is often what turns startup dreams into reality.Validating Business Ideas Before CodingAnthony shares a refreshing take on starting a new venture, underscoring the significance of validating an idea before plunging into development. He suggests selling the concept before writing a single line of code, a strategy that contrasts sharply with the more traditional path of product development. This approach involves interacting directly with potential customers to gauge interest and gather feedback, which is crucial for shaping the product in its earliest stages.Drawing from his own entrepreneurial journey with a previous venture, Anthony recalls the pivotal moment he identified a real problem to solve. This insight didn't come from brainstorming in isolation but from his observations while consulting. Noticing marketers' frustrations with certain technical tasks provided the initial spark for his business idea. By focusing on a concrete problem experienced by many, he set a solid foundation for his startup.The true test of his concept came when he leveraged his existing network within the Salesforce ecosystem. By discussing the potential solution with former clients and gauging their interest, Anthony not only reaffirmed the demand but also built initial customer relationships. This method proved powerful when a client's request for a price quote pushed his team towards actual product development—a clear sign that the market saw value in their idea.Key takeaway: Start by selling your idea before you build it. This strategy not only tests the viability of your concept beyond immediate acquaintances but also engages potential customers early in the process. By involving them in the development journey, you can ensure that your product addresses real needs, enhancing your chances of success. This proactive engagement can be a crucial strategy for marketers looking to validate and adapt their innovations effectively.How to Keep an Eye on All the Changes in Martech?Anthony kicks things off with a half joking nod to the Humans of Martech podcast, suggesting that a regular listen might be just what’s needed to keep up with the fast-paced world of marketing technology. His real answer though is: get your hands dirty. Forget spending your weekends buried in whitepapers or certifications—though they have their place, Anthony argues that nothing beats real-world experience with the tools themselves. He points out that a few minutes spent tinkering with new software can teach you more than hours spent in seminars or reading product marketing materials.He’s quick to criticize the heavy reliance on analyst reports and industry experts, which he feels can obscure more than they illuminate. Anthony's experiences have shown him that many of these resources are tangled up in marketing strategies or even pay-to-play arrangements, which don’t always give the clearest picture of a tool’s value.Anthony also believes that companies should carve out a portion of their resources for pure experimentation. He recommends about 10%—not just as a token gesture but as a genuine investment in future capabilities. Sure, some ideas won’t work out, but those that do could be game-changers, providing significant advantages down the road.Finally, Anthony underlines the importance of community involvement. Whether it’s joining user groups, attending tech meetups, or just going out for dinner with peers, the connections you make and the insights you gain can dramatically steer your career and enhance your understanding of the field.Key takeaway: Dive into the practical side of martech and engage directly with the community. This hands-on experience and network involvement are invaluable for staying updated and effectively navigating the complexities of the marketing technology galaxy. These efforts will enrich your personal growth and improve your org's innovative capacity.The Timeless Essentials of Martech ExpertiseWhen diving into what makes someone exceptional in the martech field, Anthony gets right to the point: it’s all about knowing the fundamentals of marketing deeply and personally. While it might seem like a given, Anthony shares from his own experience how crucial this understanding is. Coming from a tech and CRM-heavy background, he admits that fully grasping what marketers need didn’t come immediately. It’s not just about the tools; it’s about knowing the people using them—their ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Maja Voje, Founder of Growth Labs and the Author of GTM Strategist. Summary: This episode with Maja is a playbook for startup marketers, growth advisors, early stage founders and anyone curious about go-to-market strategies. We untangle the most popular questions about growing early stage startups, from picking the right early channels and leveraging qualitative insights, to uncovering the limitations of willingness to pay and locking down the moving target of product market fit. We also cover how to overcome biases, leverage intuition and simplify all things go-to-market.About MajaMaja started her career bouncing from government consulting, journalist intern and Program Manager rolesShe then kickstarted her entrepreneurial journey and launched Growth Lab, an early version of her consultancy where she moonlighted as a consultantShe worked at Google on Speech Ops, where she led a team of 9 on a globally coordinated technology development projectShe later worked for various startups across London and Brussels; leading marketing, comms and growth strategy She then worked remotely for a web3 blockchain startup based in Hong Kong and took on the role of CMO where she raised over 20M in growth capital and attracted 16,000 early adopters She’s a mentor at the Swiss Entrepreneurship ProgramShe’s the author of GTM Strategist, a comprehensive guide on launching a new product and gaining PMFToday she’s doubled down on her consultancy Growth Lab where she’s worked with brands like Heineken, Bayer, Miro and ProductLed. She’s also taught Growth principles to more than 50,000 students around the world including employees from Tesla, Apple, Deloitte, Adidas…Maja, what a wild and amazing journey, thanks so much for your time today.What CMOs and Growth Advisors of the Future Should be Doing TodayMaja shares straightforward advice for those setting their sights on a Chief Marketing Officer or growth advisor role: stick with it. Jumping from one project to another without fully engaging in the entire lifecycle—from planning to execution to scaling—might seem dynamic, but it lacks the depth that comes from true commitment. She believes that the real insight into marketing leadership springs from not just launching a product but also from nurturing it and watching it grow to a stage where it can be replicated efficiently and effectively.During the interview, Maja described what she calls a "speed learning period." This intense phase of hard work, though daunting, is invaluable. Here, you're not just working; you're absorbing through active participation. It's a time filled with late nights, teamwork, and, yes, lots of pizza and energy drinks. It's about making the most out of the resources around you—mentors, colleagues, and the safety net of not yet playing with your own money.Maja also touched on the psychological barriers like imposter syndrome that can stunt growth. Her advice? Push past those doubts. Success breeds confidence, and with each win, the blueprint for repeating those successes becomes clearer and more intuitive. She advocates for a mix-and-match approach to professional roles: try a bit of mentoring here, some part-time consulting there, and see what suits you best.She’s passionate about remaining relevant and adaptive in the fast-paced marketing world. For Maja, it’s not just about keeping up; it’s about continuously applying what works on a larger scale and helping more people with those proven strategies. This excitement for her work shines through when she talks about scaling what works and bringing more value to more clients.Key takeaway: To really prepare for a CMO role, immerse yourself completely in projects and embrace the learning that comes with each phase. Avoid hopping too quickly from one opportunity to the next without reaping the full benefits of your experiences. Stay versatile, stay engaged, and remember, adapting proven strategies on a wider scale can amplify your impact and keep your skills sharp in a competitive field.Recognizing the Value of Simplicity in GTM StrategiesWhen Maja talks about marketing strategies, she hits home the need for simplicity. It's easy for marketers, especially the seasoned ones, to fall into the trap of making things more complicated than they need to be. Maja explains that the smarter you get, the harder it can be to keep things straightforward. You start seeing more angles, more risks, and more possibilities, and suddenly, you're stuck—nothing moves because you're overthinking every detail. This is what Maja refers to as the "curse of intelligence." You know so much that it actually starts to hold you back.In her view, one of the biggest hitches in deploying marketing strategies is the sheer overwhelm of options. This often leads to what she describes as "analysis paralysis." You end up doing nothing because you're too caught up in your head, dissecting various possibilities and scenarios. And in a world where speed to market is crucial, being stuck in this loop can be disastrous.But there's more to it. According to Maja, bigger companies often struggle with decision-making because it feels safer to spread the responsibility around. This might mean bringing in various consultants and team members to weigh in, which can drag out the process even further. It’s like trying to cook a meal with too many chefs in the kitchen—everyone has an opinion, but dinner never gets made.Maja stresses the importance of creating a culture where it's okay to make mistakes. The best teams, she says, treat failures as stepping stones to better solutions. They use a scientific approach, testing ideas, learning from missteps, and gradually getting wiser. It's about creating a space where people feel secure enough to try new things without fear of retribution if they don’t hit the mark right away.Key takeaway: Keep your marketing strategies simple. Don’t let knowledge become a barrier to action. Encourage a team environment where trying and failing is just part of the process, because that’s how you find what really works. This not only keeps your team moving forward but also ensures you remain agile and responsive in a competitive marketplace.GTM for Products that are Good but not GreatMaja delves into the raw experiences of working in startup environments where resources are tight but ambitions run high. She shares that the perfect product is a myth that hinders more than it helps. It's a common trap for many startups—they spend too much time polishing a product instead of getting it into the market to start learning from real customer feedback. Maja emphasizes the importance of launching early and initiating those critical feedback loops that inform successful go-to-market strategies.In her journey, Maja has seen startups falter not just because their products were imperfect, but often because they weren't communicating effectively with the right market segments. She recounts how targeting can make or break the initial traction of a product. Sometimes, a pivot in the target audience, whether geographic or demographic, can dramatically shift the results. Maja advocates for starting small and embracing activities that might not scale initially but can provide invaluable insights and early adopters.For example, Maja describes a CRM startup's approach to finding its niche. They simply posted an invite to their beta version in a large Facebook group and quickly gathered their first 100 users. This initial user base helped them understand that their product wasn't suitable for e-commerce but was a hit with solo entre...

Adam Greco, digital analytics expert at Amplitude, discusses event-based analytics, overlapping data tools, and the importance of collaboration between marketing and data teams. He touches on interactive dashboards, warehouse native martech, and the need for practical yet effective strategies in the evolving martech landscape.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mandy Thompson, CEO and Co-Founder of Digital Reach. Summary: Mandy shares powerful mindsets and practical frameworks for marketers aiming to future-proof their careers in the complex galaxy of martech mixed up with AI, data privacy, and genuine customer engagement. We cover the art of documentation to avoid feeling like you’re in an Indiana Jones adventure sifting through digital cobwebs from ghosts of marketers past when you dive into a company’s martech setup. We also examined the use of intent data, urging a balanced approach that respects privacy. She highlighted her practical use of virtual whiteboarding to pre-plan automations and using ChatGPT for marketing automation use cases. Most importantly, Mandy shared how blending personal authenticity with professional savvy creates genuine connections, far more valuable than superficial likes on social media. About MandyMandy started her career plunging into entrepreneurship launching an Advocacy and Consulting firm where she ran Marketing and sales for 3 successful years, growing the team to 25 people and crossing 1M in rev in the first yearShe later sold everything she owned and went out on her own traveling the world as a digital nomad – freelancing as a copywriter and a web developer. She developed and produced an online course that generated 7 figure returnsShe co-founded Digital Reach, a digital agency where she spent 8 years focused on sales and account management, before becoming CEO where she’s spent the last 3.5 years growing the agency 300% YOYShe’s a member of Pavilion and RevGenius, she’s also a Treasurer Board of Directors at the New Mexico Psychedelic Science SocietyFinding Your True Self in the WorkspaceMandy shares a piece of her life with us, a story that's as much about the tattoos on her skin as it is about the unseen marks her experiences have left. It's a peek into the life of someone who's part of the LGBTQIA+ community, a proud woman in a world that still wrestles with equality, and a professional who's dared to blur the lines between her personal and professional selves. Her story isn't just hers alone; it echoes the journeys of many who feel like they're juggling multiple identities, trying to find a spot where they fit in without having to compromise on who they truly are.She talks about starting with what's comfortable and pushing the boundaries from there. It's like dipping your toes into the ocean to gauge the temperature before plunging in. Mandy found that the more she shared, the more she discovered people who were like her or, at the very least, people who were open to embracing her totality without judgment. Her tale is a reminder that often, our fears of rejection are far greater than the reality of it.The pandemic, for all its chaos, played a surprising role in Mandy's life. It pushed the professional world into a more authentic space, where business suits met bedroom backgrounds in Zoom calls. For Mandy, it was a time when the digital nomad lifestyle she had always embraced suddenly became the norm. The shift wasn't just about work cultures becoming more accepting of remote work; it was about the world getting a glimpse into the personal lives of its workforce, making everyone a bit more human.Mandy's discussion about the intersecting circles of our personal and professional lives—how we must find that sweet spot where we can be true to ourselves while still rocking our roles at work—is insightful. She doesn't shy away from dressing up for an important client meeting, not as a betrayal to her identity, but as a nod to the professional context. It's about knowing when and how to showcase different facets of ourselves, a dance between being authentically us and professionally adaptable.Key takeaway: Embracing your full self at work is less about a grand revelation and more about small, confident steps towards being true to who you are. For marketers, this means understanding that your personal story and how you choose to share it can become your strength, allowing you to connect on a more genuine level with your audience, colleagues, and industry at large. It's about finding your voice in a way that resonates with both who you are and who you aspire to be professionally.Genuine Connections Over Likes on SocialMandy's got a point that'll make you rethink your whole LinkedIn strategy. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to blend in to get ahead. You know the feeling, scrolling through your feed and it's like everyone's marching to the beat of the same drum. But Mandy's here to tell us that's not where it's at. The real magic happens when you break from the pack and share what makes you, well, you. It's not about racking up likes or followers. It's about striking a chord with the people who get you.She's pretty clear on one thing: chasing popularity isn't the goal. Imagine reaching your career milestones, not because you played it safe, but because you were real with your network. Think about it. Do you really need thousands of likes to say you've made it? Nah. If your post lights up the day for just a handful of people, those are your people. They're the ones who dig what you're saying and that's worth its weight in gold.Let's be real, though. It can sting a bit when you see others with their crazy-high follower counts and endless stream of comments. Mandy feels that too. Putting yourself out there and then hearing crickets? Tough. But she's adamant that finding your voice and your tribe beats playing it safe any day. It's not about shouting into the void but whispering to those who are actually listening.Mandy reminds us that the digital world is vast, but the corners where we find our kindred spirits are precious. It's less about impressing the crowd and more about connecting with the few who truly appreciate your uniqueness.Key takeaway: Don't lose yourself in the quest for likes and approval on LinkedIn. Authenticity is your superpower. For marketers, remember, it's the genuine connections that count, not the size of your audience. Focus on those who resonate with your true self, and you'll find not only your tribe but also your path to true professional fulfillment.Treat Your Marketing Team like Your Agency Within the CompanyMandy has this straightforward way of talking about managing marketing teams that feels like a breath of fresh air. She takes us behind the scenes of running an agency, where it’s all about juggling different accounts and making sure everyone’s rowing in the same direction. It’s this dance of making sure what you promise on one hand, you can actually deliver on the other. And it all boils down to something she calls mutual accountability - a two-way street where the team and leaders keep each other in check.The trick is to always have a clear picture of what’s doable. Mandy points out how essential it is to match up the team's workload with what clients are asking for. It's pretty much like saying, "Let's not bite off more than we can chew." If someone’s schedule is already packed, promising a client that their request can be done next week isn't just unrealistic; it's unfair to the team. It's about finding that sweet spot where the team's capacity meets client expectations without anyone having to burn the midnight oil unnecessarily.Mandy's a big fan of using smart tools to keep everything on track. She talks about something called teamwork, but it’s clear the real teamwork happens when these tools give everyone a clear view of the workload, deadlines, and what's at stake financially. It's not just about checking tasks off a list; it's about making informed decis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Julz James, Senior Marketing Ops Manager at 6sense and Adjunct Professor at St. Edwards University. Summary: Jul is a marketing ops leader and a martech Professor who's rewriting the rulebook on how to navigate the martech galaxy. She walks us through automation inception, like a dream within a dream, and how she’s leveraged an iPaaS tool to automate her automations. She also unravels intent data and how her team has moved beyond lead scoring to adopt account scoring. Sprinkle in her freelance learnings, and you've got a recipe for someone who's not just working in marketing ops but thriving, bringing fresh insights and strategies to the classroom. This episode is a nice reminder that with a bit of curiosity, a dash of adaptability, and a love for teaching, the galaxy of martech tools isn't just approachable—it's yours to automate.About JulzJulz got her start wearing multiple marketing hats including website management and SEO for variety of SMBs and later a big recruiting firm Julz then decided to go back to school to pursue a PhD at the University of South Wales, undertaking work-based doctoral research while working with an growing ecomm companyShe later worked as a Marketing Automation Manager at a few different tech companies including Mitel and a talent software startupJulz then decided to move from the UK to Austin Texas to take an Assistant Professor of Marketing gig at St. Edwards University and is currently still a Part-time Adjunct ProfessorShe also started freelancing in marketing operations and would later join Blue Prism as their srn Marketing Ops ManagerFinally she had a short stint at Adobe before settling in at 6sense where she’s currently leading Marketing OperationsA New Approach to Educating the Modern MarketerImagine walking into a marketing class and instead of cracking open a dusty textbook that smells like the '80s, you're handed a sandbox loaded with today's leading marketing software. This isn't a scene from a futuristic movie; it's what Julz is bringing to the table in her marketing courses. Gone are the days of learning marketing theories that feel like a DVD. Julz has swapped them for lessons on the tools that marketers actually use in their jobs today.Julz loves teaching not for the sake of it but for the lightbulb moments she sees in her students when they connect the dots between class material and their day jobs in marketing. She draws from her own reservoir of experiences, sharing how she navigates the marketing world with tools like Marketo and Salesforce, making her classes a treasure trove of real-life wisdom.Her approach is refreshingly practical. Remember learning about the four P's and Porter’s Five Forces? Julz believes those concepts are as relevant to today's marketing as a pager is to personal communication. Instead, she's all about diving into the digital tools that shape modern marketing strategies, shifting the focus from memorizing models to mastering martech.Creating course content is no walk in the park, especially when the galaxy of martech tools changes faster than you can hit refresh. But Julz is on top of it, crafting her materials from a blend of up-to-the-minute blogs, community discussions, and the latest ebooks. It’s about making sure her students aren't just keeping pace but are ahead of the curve, ready to apply what they've learned in real-time scenarios.Key takeaway: If you're in marketing and looking to make your mark, take a page out of Julz's playbook. Forget the dry theories that gather dust on a shelf. It's all about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty with the tech that's shaping our world right now. Being quick on your feet, always hungry to learn something new, and getting cozy with the latest martech? That's the secret sauce for not just making it but also having fun.Unlocking the Secrets of Martech Without Coding SkillsEver think you need to be a coding guru to rock at marketing tech? Julz has some news for you: that's not the case. Picture this: you're more like a tech-savvy wizard, weaving different digital tools together, making them do exactly what marketing needs them to do. And guess what? You don't need to write lines of code to pull it off.Julz puts it simply – her gig in marketing operations is kind of like being an IT whiz but all jazzed up for marketing. You get systems to play nice with each other, not by coding from scratch but by knowing just enough to make smart tweaks here and there. It's like knowing how to change a tire without being a mechanic. Sure, dipping your toes into HTML or JavaScript is helpful, especially when you need to adjust something small on a website or in an email. But the real game? It’s all about seeing the big picture, understanding how different platforms and tools fit into the marketing puzzle.Drawing from her own adventures, Julz shares how her journey through engineering and tinkering with gadgets wasn’t about the math or the mechanics but about solving puzzles and being curious. Whether it’s figuring out why a campaign isn’t performing or integrating a new tool into the tech stack, it’s this curiosity and problem-solving drive that counts.Here’s the kicker: the world of marketing tech is becoming more user-friendly by the day. Tools that used to require a developer to set up can now be managed with a few clicks and drags. This shift doesn’t mean technical skills aren’t valuable; it just means the focus is shifting towards strategy and understanding how to connect the dots between different technologies to create a seamless marketing engine.Key takeaway: Jumping into marketing tech doesn’t mean you need to bury yourself in code. It’s all about understanding the flow between different tools and technologies and using that knowledge to craft marketing strategies that hit the mark. So, if you're curious, ready to tackle problems, and can think on your feet, you’re already well on your way to making a big splash in martech, no coding required.Why Qualified Accounts Beat MQLs in Modern MarketingWhen Julz landed at 6sense, she walked into a whole new playbook for marketing ops. Gone were the days of obsessing over who's scoring what in leads. Here, it was all about tuning into accounts showing us buying signals, loud and clear. It took her a hot minute — okay, six months — to really get why they weren't sweating over lead scores. Ditching lead scoring felt like saying goodbye to an old friend, but it opened her eyes to a smarter way to connect with potential buyers.Think of it this way: It's not about waiting for someone to wave a flag saying, "Hey, I downloaded your ebook!" It's about catching those signals that someone's already scoping you out, ready to chat about what you do. They call these signals from their AI buddy at 6sense, the 6QAs. It's like having a secret decoder ring that shows them who's already thinking about buying without them having to say a word.But here’s the wild part: Once you spot these ready-to-buy accounts, how do you know who to talk to? That's where things get really interesting. They dove into their win stories and figured out who's usually in on the buying decision. Not by names, but by their roles. Are they in ops? Sales? Marketing? This wasn’t just a wild guess; it’s about knowing the committee that’s going to nod yes or no to what you offer.Their sales conversations shifted dramatically. Instead of chasing down every single lead, they started having real talks with the right folks in these companies, all thanks to a mix of their own tools and a hefty dose of strategy. They’re not just throwing darts...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Kevin Hu (Hoo), Co-founder and CEO at Metaplane. Summary: Dr. Kevin Hu gives us a masterclass on everything data. Data analysis, data storytelling, data quality, data observability and data anomaly detection. We unpack the power of inquisitive data analysis and a hypothesis-driven approach, emphasizing the importance of balancing data perfection with actually doing the work of activating that data. He highlights data observability and anomaly detection as a key to preempting errors, ensuring data integrity for a seamless user experience. Amid the rise of AI in martech, he champions marketing ops' role in safeguarding data quality, making clear that success hinges on our ability to manage data with precision, creativity, and proactive vigilance. About KevinKevin did his undergrad in Physics at MITHe later collaborated with his biologist sister, assisting in analyzing five years of fish behavior data. This experience inspired him to further his research and earn a master's degree in Data Visualization and Machine LearningHe also completed a PhD in Philosophy at MIT where he led research on automated data visualization and semantic type detection His research was published at several conferences like CHI (pronounced Kai) (human-computer interaction), SIGMOD (database) and KDD (data mining) and featured in the Economist, NYT and WiredIn 2019, Kevin teamed up with former Hubspot and Appcues engineers to launch Metaplane, initially set out to be a product focused on customer success, designed to analyze company data for churn preventionBut after going through Y Combinator, the company pivoted slightly to build data analytics-focused toolsToday Metaplane is a data observability platform powered by ML-based anomaly detection that helps teams prevent and detect data issues — before the CEO pings them about weird revenue numbers.How to Ask the Right Questions in Data AnalysisWhen Kevin shared the profound impact César Hidalgo, his mentor at MIT, had on his journey into the data world, it wasn't just about learning to analyze data; it was about asking the right questions. César put together one of our favorite TED talks ever – Why we should automate politicians with AI agents – this was back in 2018, long before ChatGPT was popular. Hidalgo, recognized not only for AI and ML applications but also developing innovative methods to visualize complex data and making it understandable to a broader audience, was the most important teacher in Kevin’s life. He helped Kevin understand that the bottleneck in data analysis wasn't necessarily a lack of coding skills but a gap in understanding what to ask of the data. This revelation came at a pivotal moment as Kevin navigated his path through grad school, influenced by his sister's work in animal behavior and his own struggles with coding tools like R and MATLAB.Under Hidalgo's guidance, Kevin was introduced to a broader perspective on data analysis. This wasn't just about running numbers through a program; it was about diffusing those numbers with context and meaning. Hidalgo's approach to mentorship, characterized by personalized attention and encouragement to delve into complex ideas, like those presented in Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate," opened up a new world of inquiry for Kevin. It was a world where the questions one asked were as critical as the data one analyzed.This mentorship experience highlights the importance of curiosity and critical thinking in the field of data science. Kevin's reflection on his journey reveals a key insight: mastering coding languages is only one piece of the puzzle. The ability to question, to seek out the stories data tells, and to understand the broader implications of those stories is equally, if not more, important.Kevin's gratitude towards Hidalgo for his investment in students' growth serves as a reminder of the value of mentorship. It’s a testament to the idea that the best mentors don't just teach you how to execute tasks; they inspire you to see beyond the immediate horizon. They challenge you to think deeply about your work and its impact on the world.Key takeaway: For marketers delving into data-informed strategies, Kevin's story is a powerful reminder that beyond the technical skills, the ability to ask compelling, insightful questions of your data can dramatically amplify its value. Focus on nurturing a deep, inquisitive approach to understanding consumer behavior and market trends.Bridging Academic Rigor with Startup AgilityDuring his career in academia working alongside Olympian-caliber scientists and researchers, Kevin garnered insights that have since influenced his approach to running a startup. The parallels between academia and startups are striking, with both realms embodying a journey of perseverance and unpredictability. This analogy provides a foundational mindset for entrepreneurs who must navigate the uncertain waters of business development with resilience and adaptability.At the heart of Kevin's philosophy is the adoption of a hypothesis-driven approach. This methodology, borrowed from academic research, emphasizes the importance of formulating hypotheses for various aspects of business operations, particularly in marketing strategies. Identifying the ideal customer profile (ICP), crafting compelling messaging, and selecting the optimal channels are seen not as static decisions but as theories to be rigorously tested and iterated upon. This empirical approach allows for a methodical exploration of what resonates best with the target audience, acknowledging that today's successful strategy may need reevaluation tomorrow.Another vital lesson from academia that Kevin emphasizes is the respect for past endeavors. In a startup ecosystem often obsessed with innovation, there's a tendency to overlook the lessons learned from previous attempts in similar ventures. By acknowledging and building upon the efforts of predecessors, Kevin advocates for a more informed and grounded approach to innovation. This perspective encourages entrepreneurs to consider the historical context of their ideas and strategies, potentially saving time and resources by learning from past mistakes rather than repeating them.Key takeaway: Embracing a hypothesis-driven mindset should be familiar grounds for marketers. Challenge your team to identify and test hypotheses around underexplored or seemingly less significant customer segments. This could involve hypothesizing the effectiveness of personalized content for a niche within your broader audience that has been overlooked, measuring engagement against broader campaigns.Balancing Data Accuracy with Rapid GrowthFor startups grappling with survival, the luxury of perfect data is often out of reach. Kevin points out that data quality should be tailored to the specific needs of the business. For instance, data utilized for quarterly board meetings does not necessitate the same level of freshness as data driving daily customer interactions. This pragmatic approach underscores the importance of defining data quality standards based on the frequency and criticality of business decisions.At the heart of Kevin's argument is the concept that as businesses scale, the stakes of data accuracy and timeliness escalate. He highlights scenarios where real-time data becomes crucial, such as B2B SaaS companies engaging with potential leads or e-commerce platforms optimizing their customer journey. In these cases, even slight inaccuracies or delays can result in missed revenue opportunities or diminished customer trust.This discourse on data quality transcends the binary choice between perfect data and rapid action. Instead, Kevin advoc...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Amrita Mathur, VP of Marketing at ClickUp.Summary: Building a brand from zero is all about diving deep into what makes your audience tick and tailoring your messages to hit just right. Amrita digs into this, stressing the gold in blending hard data with your gut in order to spot what truly connects. It’s not about the immediate wins; it’s hunting for those less obvious cues that hint you’re on to something. When it comes to team-building, she’s clear: bring on board folks who are curious, the ones who ask all of the questions and are unafraid of constructive criticism. For Amrita, the secret sauce to thriving in marketing, beyond all the strategy and insights, boils down to enjoying the ride and the people you’re with, transforming work from a mere grind to an adventure worth every second.About AmritaAmrita kicked off her career at a startup in Toronto that was later acquired by OpenText, there she wore many different marketing hats, and later progressed to Redknee as Product Marketing ManagerShe briefly shifted to customer success at Jonas Software, concentrating on customer growth and retention and later returned to product marketing at Toronto Region Board of TradeShe then became Director of Marketing at PriceMetrix/McKinsey, where she led marketing planning and team hiringShe also led Demand Marketing at Vision Critical where she focused on go-to-market strategies, demand generation, and martechAmrita then moved over to Top Hat as Vice President overseeing Demand Generation, Marketing Operations & GrowthShen then joined a startup called Konsus founded by two Norwegian entrepreneurs who secured seed funding from Sam Altman and the Slack Fund. There she led the rebrand of the company to Superside and built a team that helped the startup grow from 0 to $4M in year 1 and reach $60M by year 4Finally, Amrita has recently joined San Diego-based ClickUp, the popular productivity platform valued at over $4B, known best for their SuperBowl ad or their music albumThe Myth of the Ivory Tower in Tech LeadershipAmrita’s journey at ClickUp shatters the common myth of the ‘ivory tower’ often associated with leadership roles in substantial tech enterprises. Despite the company’s impressive valuation and extensive team, she emphasizes a hands-on approach that defies traditional expectations. At ClickUp, there’s no detachment between the upper management and the operational workforce; instead, the organization champions a flat hierarchy. This structure not only promotes visibility across all levels but also encourages direct involvement in operational tasks, regardless of one’s title.The ethos at ClickUp, as Amrita describes, mirrors what’s often referred to as the ‘Stripe model’—a reference to Stripe’s renowned flat organizational structure. This approach ensures that despite rapid growth, the company maintains an environment where every individual, from interns to VPs, is expected to dive deep into the minutiae of their work. It’s a testament to the belief that understanding and engaging with the details are paramount to effectiveness. ClickUp’s CEO reinforces this by advocating for a culture where being ‘in the details’ is not just encouraged but required.This philosophy stands in stark contrast to what Amrita experienced towards the end of her tenure at Superside, where she could afford to step back, confident in her team’s ability to manage without her direct oversight. At ClickUp, the scenario is vastly different. The expectation to remain operationally involved means leadership roles are as much about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty as they are about strategic oversight.The ClickUp model demonstrates a pivotal shift in how companies view leadership and organizational structure. It challenges the notion that senior positions are synonymous with distance from the day-to-day operations, highlighting the importance of a collaborative and transparent work environment. This approach not only ensures that leaders remain grounded and connected to their team’s work but also fosters a culture of accountability and shared responsibility.Key takeaway: At ClickUp, success is found not in the isolation of leadership roles but in their integration within the operational fabric of the company. This model serves as a compelling blueprint for marketers: to stay relevant and effective, immerse yourself in the granular aspects of your work, foster transparency, and maintain a willingness to engage across all levels of the organization.Choosing Between Testing and Informed Decision-MakingAmrita sheds light on a prevalent misconception in the marketing world: the notion that every decision should be subjected to testing. This idea, while rooted in the desire to make data-driven decisions, often becomes a stumbling block, delaying action and fostering indecision. With ClickUp’s significant web traffic and signup volumes, one might assume an endless capacity for testing. However, Amrita points out that this isn’t always the most effective approach. Traffic isn’t uniformly distributed across all initiatives, necessitating a more discerning strategy for deciding what to test and what decisions can be made based on informed hypotheses.For instance, the launch of ClickUp’s AI product, Click AppBrain, presented a scenario with zero initial traffic, making traditional A/B testing impractical at the outset. Instead, ClickUp opted for a bold approach, deviating from conventional landing page norms to create something distinctive and engaging. This strategy, as Amrita describes, is about ‘zagging’ when others ‘zig’, striving for uniqueness in a crowded marketplace. The success of their unconventional approach is evident in the substantial interest generated for their launch event, demonstrating that not all marketing initiatives need to be prefaced by rigorous testing.Amrita’s philosophy extends to broader marketing decisions, where not everything falls neatly into the ‘testing’ bucket. Certain endeavors, like sponsoring a podcast, defy straightforward measurement. The decision to proceed often hinges on understanding the audience and trusting the medium’s reach rather than on direct testing outcomes. This highlights the importance of leveraging different marketing disciplines to create compelling campaigns that might not initially lend themselves to A/B testing but are nevertheless rooted in strategic thinking.The approach to testing at ClickUp underlines a crucial balance between data-driven decision-making and intuitive marketing strategies. While A/B testing remains a valuable tool for optimizing conversions and understanding user behavior, Amrita’s insights remind us that marketing’s artistry lies in knowing when to rely on data and when to trust in creativity and market understanding.Key takeaway: Marketers should focus on cultivating an ability to discern which initiatives require validation through testing and which can advance based on informed hypotheses and innovative thinking. This approach not only streamlines decision-making but also encourages creativity and differentiation in a competitive landscape.Optimizing for Velocity of Learning in Early-Stage MarketingIn the formative stages of Superside, Amrita encountered the challenge many startups face: limited traffic and the pressure to demonstrate growth through experimentation. Instead of focusing solely on the quantity of tests, the emphasis was placed on the ‘velocity of learning,’ a concept introduced by her CEO. This shift in perspective, from quantitative to qualitative insights, paved the way for a more flexible and insightful approach to growth.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mauro Figueiredo, a global Digital Transformation and MarTech leader (and Innovator). Summary: Mauro walked us through his blueprint for building multifaceted teams equipped with technical, emotional, and strategic competencies. We emphasized the significance of identifying martech talent through self-awareness and curiosity, and how these traits play a crucial role in navigating the integration of martech with analytics and AI. We also focused on leveraging AI in marketing and the dangerous messaging of Co-Pilot’s Superbowl ad. By fostering a culture of continuous learning and cross-functional collaboration, marketers can unlock new opportunities in AI and ensure their strategies align with business goals for impactful outcomes.About MauroMauro spent the first 6 years of his career focusing on CRM and marketing automation for various gambling and casino companies across the UK and MaltaHe worked as a Senior CRM Manager at Sony Computer Entertainment focused on growing PlayStation game launches including Uncharted 4, Playstation VR and several live eventsHe later had short advisory stints at a business aviation company and a booking marketplace startupHe then joined Europe’s largest gaming publisher – Gameforge as their Head of CRM where he led multichannel campaigns that spanned across 400M+ usersHe then made the mage move to JPMorgan Chase as Executive Director of CRM where he built the CRM department from the ground upMost recently he’s moved to APAC Vietnam to be Director of Martech and Center of Excellence at a regional financial institutionA Blueprint for Building Effective Martech TeamsWhen constructing a Martech team, the approach should be tailored, recognizing that the company's size and the team's maturity significantly influence the team's structure and dynamics. Mauro's method begins with a clear understanding of the project's scope, the technologies required to address the business challenge, and the delivery of tangible business value. Identifying the necessary hard skills is just the initial step; the blend of technological prowess and customer-centric focus forms the foundation of a capable team.Equally crucial to hard skills, however, is the team members' attitude and characteristics. Mauro emphasizes the importance of adaptability and resilience, qualities that enable team members to navigate through the inevitable changes in project scope, technology, and industry trends. The ability to shift modes from discovery to definition and then to implementation, all while remaining open to adjustments, is essential. This flexibility is not just about coping with changes but thriving amidst them, ensuring the team's effectiveness and the project's success.The journey from the inception of a Martech project to its completion involves various phases, each demanding a different mindset and set of capabilities. The selection of team members who possess a well-rounded skill set, blending technical knowledge with a customer and experience obsession, is vital. Moreover, prioritizing soft skills and personality traits such as resilience and adaptability ensures the team can withstand and adapt to unforeseen challenges.Key takeaway: Building a winning Martech team requires more than just technical expertise. Invest in cross-training within your Martech team to ensure every member can handle multiple aspects of projects. This not only enhances team flexibility but also prepares each marketer for future roles in an ever-changing landscape.Interview Tips for Identifying Future Martech StarsSpotting the next Martech superstar hinges not just on evaluating their resume but on assessing their emotional intelligence (EQ) and problem-solving capabilities. Mauro shares that beyond the standard assessment of a candidate's career achievements, he delves into how they've navigated specific situations, tasks, actions, and results, adhering to the STAR model. This method uncovers not just what the candidate has done but how they've approached challenges and contributed to their team's success.After vetting a candidate's professional skills and understanding their career trajectory, Mauro shifts the focus towards EQ. He employs a unique set of questions designed to reveal how candidates perceive themselves and how they believe others perceive them. Asking candidates to describe themselves in four words and then to reflect on how their friends might describe them serves a dual purpose. It not only provides insights into the candidate's self-awareness but also opens a window into their personality and motivations.This approach to interviewing goes beyond traditional methods, allowing leaders to gain a deeper understanding of a candidate's interpersonal skills and how they relate to others. Such questions can surprise candidates, prompting them to think more deeply about themselves and how they interact with the world around them. The disparity, or lack thereof, between self-perception and external perception can be telling, revealing traits that are crucial for roles requiring high levels of collaboration and adaptability.Mauro's method exemplifies a comprehensive approach to identifying potential team members who are not just technically proficient but also emotionally intelligent and adept at navigating complex social dynamics. This balanced assessment strategy ensures that the Martech stars of the future are well-rounded individuals capable of contributing to a team's success on multiple levels.Key takeaway: Enhance your interview readiness by preparing to showcase not only your technical skills and professional achievements but also your emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Reflect on how you've tackled past challenges using the STAR method and consider how you perceive yourself versus how others might see you. This preparation can set you apart in interviews, demonstrating your depth as a candidate and your potential as a future Martech leader.Valuing Curiosity in Martech RecruitmentCuriosity is a fundamental trait for anyone in marketing. Mauro sheds light on its importance, emphasizing the ability to anticipate, inquire, and delve deeper into the unknowns is what sets apart the outstanding from the ordinary.Demonstrating curiosity during the hiring process can significantly impact a candidate's appeal. Mauro suggests going the extra mile by researching the company beyond the surface-level information available online. Engaging with employees or connections related to the company can provide deeper insights and demonstrate a genuine interest in the role and the organization. This proactive approach signals to the interviewer that the candidate is insightful, eager to learn, and prepared to engage with the team and its objectives on a profound level.Asking thoughtful and unconventional questions during an interview is another method to exhibit curiosity. It's not just about the questions themselves but the thought process that led to them. This indicates a candidate's ability to think critically and their desire to understand the rationale behind decisions and strategies. Such interactions reveal a person's inclination to explore and expand their knowledge base, crucial in a field where adaptation and innovation are key.Curiosity is the engine of personal and professional development, prompting individuals to question, learn, and innovate continuously.Key takeaway: Encourage and demonstrate curiosity by researching extensively, connecting with company insiders, and asking insightful questions during interviews. The goal is to showcase your proactive approach to learning and adapting. This trait not only enhances your a...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Abby Gailey, Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health. Summary: Abby walks us through the complicated marketing ops world of B2B2C healthcare SaaS, emphasizing a move from sales-centric to engagement-focused martech. We dive into curiosity and continuous learning, using tools like webhooks to blend digital and physical marketing effectively. Quality assurance through negative checklists and professional growth through mentorship and communities are key themes for future proofing your martech career. Abby simplifies success in martech: blend innovation with teamwork, and balance your professional and personal life.About AbbyAbby started her career in arts administration in regional, non-profit theaters She moved over to academic conference production, where she later pivoted to a marketing and comms role and got her first taste of martechShe later worked as a Marketing Manager at Human Kinetics where she wore a variety of hatsShe moved over to Wolfram an enterprise tech company where she started as a product marketing analyst but later pivoted to marketing ops where she took ownership of Iterable and other martechToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health – the leading platform for precision medicine research – where she leads a team that works in email, SMS, push and direct mailNavigating Martech in a B2B2C SaaS ModelAbby sheds light on the unique challenges and opportunities of managing martech operations within a B2B2C business model, particularly in a sector as sensitive and regulated as healthcare research. At Vibrant Health, Abby's role straddles the line between serving business clients and engaging end users in medical studies. Her experience is notably distinct from the traditional B2B or B2C marketing roles, often dominated by discussions around lead generation, MQLs, and SQLs. Abby’s work involves partnering with prestigious institutions like the Dana Farber Cancer Institute and the National Institutes of Health, utilizing their platform to facilitate crucial medical research.The essence of her work emphasizes engagement and enablement over direct revenue generation, a departure from the revenue-centric focus seen in many marketing operations roles. This divergence stems from the regulatory landscape of healthcare, demanding precision and adherence to stringent guidelines in communications. Abby's toolkit is unique, relying less on mainstream martech solutions like Marketo or Salesforce, and more on specialized tools that cater to direct engagement through emails, SMS, and direct mail.Abby's perspective underscores a broader theme in martech: the necessity of tailoring marketing operations to the specific needs and regulations of the industry and business model. While mainstream conversations in martech often gravitate towards lead generation and sales enablement, Abby's experience highlights the importance of engagement and enablement in scenarios where direct revenue generation is not the primary focus.Key Takeaway: Abby's experience at Vibrant Health highlights the significance of customizing martech strategies to fit the unique requirements of a B2B2C business model in a regulated industry. The focus shifts from revenue generation to precise engagement and adherence to regulations, underscoring the need for specialized tools and approaches beyond the conventional sales-centric martech solutions.Driving Engagement in Highly Regulated IndustriesUnlike many marketers whose performance metrics revolve around revenue generation, Abby's focus is on engagement — a critical component in the context of medical research. This pivot away from revenue-centric metrics allows her team to concentrate on the effectiveness of communication strategies that encourage participation in health studies, which is paramount for the success of their projects.Her work involves navigating a complex landscape of HIPAA and governmental regulations, making her tasks not just about engagement, but also about compliance. Abby points out the similarities between challenges faced in healthcare marketing and those in other tightly regulated sectors like FinTech, highlighting the creative and nuanced approaches required to provide value within these constraints. Despite these challenges, Abby sees significant opportunities to impact user engagement and support the overarching goals of research and funding.Abby’s work underscores the importance of engagement in the success of healthcare research, where the actions of participants directly contribute to the progress and outcomes of studies. Her approach offers insights into the broader potential for marketing operations to support and enable core business functions beyond direct revenue generation, especially in sectors where regulatory compliance plays a significant role.Key takeaway: Marketers in regulated industries can leverage creative engagement strategies to drive participation and compliance, highlighting the value of focusing on outcomes beyond direct revenue. Abby's approach underscores the importance of tailoring marketing efforts to meet the unique challenges and opportunities of highly regulated fields.Cultivating Curiosity in Martech ProfessionalsCuriosity isn't just a trait; it's a fundamental skill for anyone navigating martech. Abby champions the idea of curiosity as the driving force behind learning and innovation in martech. She equates curiosity to the eagerness to press a button just to see what happens, a simple yet profound analogy for the exploratory mindset required in this field.This approach to technology and problem-solving isn't about reckless experimentation but embodies a deeper, more meaningful engagement with the tools and strategies at one’s disposal. Abby highlights the importance of continuous learning, whether through webinars about new features or strategies to enhance user engagement. The martech landscape is perpetually evolving, with an endless array of tools emerging. Staying ahead, or at least keeping pace, demands a proactive attitude toward learning and experimentation.Abby's method underscores an essential truth about martech: its dynamism is not a challenge but an opportunity for those willing to explore and learn. This mindset transforms potential obstacles into puzzles to be solved, making the work engaging and rewarding. Her favorite activities for skill acquisition—such as attending webinars and exploring new features—illustrate practical ways professionals can cultivate their curiosity.Key takeaway: Regularly engage with webinars and hands-on experimentation with new martech tools to sharpen your problem-solving skills and keep pace with industry innovations.The Value of Hands-On Learning in Marketing OperationsThere's a unique value placed on hands-on, experiential learning in MOPs. Abby emphasizes how on-the-job training surpasses traditional education for practical skill acquisition in the martech field. Abby’s journey, like many in our field, showcases the immense benefits of diving directly into the tools and systems that define the industry and learning through direct interaction and problem-solving.This method of learning isn't just about understanding how a particular platform operates; it extends to grasping the soup of data flows, system integrations, and the art of engaging end-users in meaningful ways. Abby highlights the importance of facing real-world challenges—those specific to a company’s vertical and the common hurdles encountered with tech systems. This hands-on approach cultivates a problem-solving mindset, essenti...