Humans of Martech

Try to send your welcome emails on behalf of coworkers who live in the same shoes as your target users. If you’re in B2B, chances are you’re using your own product, at least a coworker is. Let them write the welcome email for new users. This is especially powerful when you serve many different verticals. Example: if you sell to marketers and sales. Ask all new users to identify with sales/marketing in the signup process. Send the welcome email to marketers from a marketer at your company who showcases how they use the product for marketing use cases. Send the welcome email to sales reps from someone on your sales team who showcases how they use the product for sales use cases. JT: Okay Phil, you showed me a screenshot of this question you answered in a Slack community. PG: Yeah shoutout to Elite Marketers and Founders Slack community that was started by Joel Musambi and Tomas Kolafa, two Ottawa-Toronto marketers. JT: So the question was about building email onboarding flows for b2b products and any great resources or things that have worked well. I know that during our time together at Klipfolio we experimented a lot with emails but in your past you’ve done a bit of freelancing and moonlighting in email onboarding land.What’s this magic welcome email that works extremely well?PG: So I want to preface this by saying that this really only works if your product sells to different segments of users. And this is usually the case right?If you only sell to marketers for example, there might still be segments in the decision makers, so you could talk to the marketing manager who’ll be using the product, you might talk to the marketing ops person who needs to integrate new tools and you might need sign off from the Director who’s the decision maker. JT: yeah we could do a full episode on segmentation, maybe we should. Okay so let’s actually use an example here, let’s go with a popular name and let’s pick a tool that tons of verticals can use, lots of use cases. PG: Yeah let’s go with Basecamp. Project management tools. There’s so many of them. In part because everyone can use a project management or todo list type of tool.Basecamp sells to a bunch of different roles. Marketers, sales, product teams, finance, you name it, there’s a use case for it. JT: So I’m on their site now, when you start a trial, there’s a few questions they ask you up front, did you go through this already?PG: haha yeah I did a bit of prep for this.When you start a trial of Basecamp they ask you for name and email, then company name and job title/role. They then ask if your company has these departments/anyone that works in these roles, they list sales, rnd, marketers, finance and managers. Then they even ask for a use case, if you’re working on any of these projects, site build, event, new product launch or rebrand. JT: That’s actually quite a lot of info to ask upfront. I’m okay with it if companies are doing something with that info though.So you finished creating an account, Welcome emails come in about 5 mins later. Are you happy? PG: I’m actually really sad haha. Basecamp is a tiny team so email segmentation and onboarding is probably super low on their list. I remember when they hired a head of marketing their job posting said something like “this job isn’t about email nurturing, though very important, the scope of this role is much broader”. And that makes a ton of sense. Small team, you gotta prioritize. JT: So the welcome email wasn’t segmented?PG: Sent from support@ and there’s no segmentation content in there despite knowing my role and my use case. They are probably using that data to inform other decisions, but I didn’t get any segmented content that could’ve boosted engagement.JT: Okay, let’s say I’m Jason or Andy at Basecamp and we hire you to upgrade our email onboarding and you need to impress the shit out of these guys. What does the welcome email look like?PG: Yeah so let’s go back to some of the questions Basecamp asks users in the signup process.By asking for job title, they could lookup specific words and put me in a role bucket. Something really cool that they do in the onboarding is ask what departments you have setup and to invite someone from that team. In this case Basecamp knows if someone is from rnd or finance. JT: So user signs up, you know they fit into 1 of 5 role buckets:MarketingSalesRndFinancemanagersPG: So then next step is nominating 1 person in your company for each of those role buckets. And you help them write the welcome email from their perspective and share how they use the product.So the welcome email to marketers comes from Andy, their head of marketing, he shows Basecamp in action for a product launch he completed recently and walks through his daily process for running marketing through basecamp.Rnd email comes in from DHH, their famous CTO. He probably reminds you that he created ruby on rails in the welcome email haha but he’s probably able to craft something totally different for a technical user compared to a marketer in Andy’s email. So maybe in that email DHH talks about Basecamp 3’s API improvements or how they break up user stories into subcomponents and sub tasks. The manager email comes from Jason their CEO and he walks other managers and team leaders through the Small Council team setup they use internally or maybe the campfire sections and how to keep the team in touch and highly collaborative. JT: love it. What you’re doing is creating instant connection with empathy in your welcome email. It’s written in language you’re familiar with and the use cases shown are super familiar with your world. PG: Yeah so haven’t done this in a bunch of places there, it doesn't always work, especially if you serve a very niche audience. But usually in B2B someone in your company resembles your target user.I find it super fun to work for a B2B company that sells to marketers or marketing ops. So I’m someone on the team but I’m also very close to the customer’s worlds, I live in similar pain points every day.--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

We’ve got a super special guest today. Julie Beynon was born and raised in Ottawa, currently lives in Toronto.Got her start in marketing in - Kanata North’s - tech valley- with a company called Protus IP. She then spent nearly 5 years at Conceptshare, an agency startup that  pioneered creative proofing software and was acquired by Deltek.  She then freelanced for a bit, discovered the benefits of working remotely. Landed a gig on the marketing team at Customerio for 3 years. Working remotely. On the Ops and analytics side. For the past 2+ years, she’s head of analytics at Clearbit – a badass saas company with an awesome story of grit and one of the smartest growth teams in SaaS.  Julie is the brain behind the scenes. She’s a powerhouse data analyst with a marketing lense at heart.And today she’s going to share why data Warehousing no longer needs to be intimidating for marketers.  We can’t NOT start by talking about your journey. Western U grad, born and raised in Ottawa. Started in Kanata, worked for a startup/agency. Now you’re head of analytics at one of the coolest SaaS companies in the world. How and why did you make the leap to remote and working for a us saaa?What’s the top skill a fresh marketer should be learning if they want to work in marketing analytics? Why do you choose to work at a small smb sized company, when you could be a Director at an enterprise company. What keeps you in the startup/smb space?Let’s talk about your day to day, you’re head of analytic.. What’s that like, what are the highs and lows?When do you know it’s time to upgrade from spreadsheets. Gotta love a good Google sheet. Size of dataset, at some point it becomes clunky, slow.To run formulas or use large spreadsheets, you're using your computer’s hardware capabilities. dwh doesn’t have row limits, not limited by your laptop’s processing power. The analysis, reports you run off of a dwh are run inside the tool instead of on your laptop. so it’s way faster.How to convince your startup eng team that you need a DW for marketing data?What are the steps someone needs to take to go from I don’t have a DW for marketing data, my data is all over the place… to: I have account level aggregate data of all the touchpoints and I can share them across all my tools.How do you pick a dwh solution?Microsoft azure ecosys; native ML + powerBI Amazon redshift runs on awsSnowflake provides their own spin on dwhGoogle bigquery, simple, flexible,--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

It's super easy to over-engineer lifecycle and to underthink sales component.JT you've done this project a ton in HubSpot & Marketo both client-side and in-house. Who usually leads this internally (sales, marketing, other functions)?I can explain it to you but not understand it for you; this project is a distraction to sales; sales sees themselves as revenue drivers — and who in your organization is closer to putting 0’s on your paycheck?Common concern of sales is the limited bandwidth and massive distraction, not too mention refactoring their daily rhythm. If sales isn’t bought in, it’s because it’s not valuable // full-stop. If you can’t get a partner in sales, then you need to see that as feedback. It’s painful but sales has got to see the value in this or you’ll never get this off the ground. (we then dive into some examples of going off the rails).Deeper dive into lifecycle stages and contact status // road map versus traffic light analogy.Thanks for checking out our lifeycle martech saga! Let us know what we should dive into for our next saga!--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusPodcast artwork font by StarJedi Special Edition by Boba Fonts

You once told me you don’t care about the tools. I remember when I started working with you, we talked about pardot and marketo and hubspot, and you said you’d use carrier pigeons and smoke signals if that’s all you had. We’re Martech geeks -- of course you’re going to say to deploy a lead scoring model -- but why is it important to imagine a universe without one? It’s important to understand things in their most basic form. The concept of abstraction in programming is instructive here - basically it means that we build upon the sophistication of the code that came before us to create simpler code. In other words, you don’t need to know binary to write javascript.Same goes for MQLS - we’ve accepted scoring as the definition of MQLs without always thinking it through. For me, an marketing qualified lead is a lead that marketing has qualified. When marketing qualifies a lead, it’s passed to sales, sales follows up with it, and you make more money. Exactly. We get stuck on the how and what too often. Why is this important? Marketing is casting the net -- they build personas, execute on strategy to fill the funnel, often even own the automation systems. Marketing also deals with leads at scale -- one to many communications. It makes a lot of sense organizationally that marketing helps filter leads to sales.By recentering on the why, we can now talk about the how and the what. Let’s start with the what:Marketing could define an MQL as any of the following:A direct response to a marketing campaign through a form or offer acceptanceHand-bombing leads over from a list, for example from a conference boothAutomated scoring!Scoring models:Numeric scoringGrade ScoreFancy AI algorithmYou need a model that builds trust and keeps it. Ideally it provides some sort of feedback mechanism. Need to answer the question: which leads are best to pass to sales? A+ leads, should sales talk to them if they are going to convert already?Most common is numeric. Good start and familiar toolset. Evaluate properties like country, industry, job title, etc. Evaluate behaviour like web and email interactions. Don’t want to get lost here but some amazing touch points that lead to purchase intent like what pages they viewed, pricing page counter, integration pages, where they started they trials.Pros -> Super easy to implement, easy to maintain, easy to understand (and therefore trust). Cons -> Harder to extract insights from, a bit basic in some cases, and sometimes you want more sophistication. Data enrichment tools like Clearbit, not 100% match rate but help you figure out what matters, then you can ask that question instead of inferring it. Grading model: Two axes: Fit & Engagement (or whatever). Get your 1-4 and your A-D. Matrix to plot out where leads land. Lots of precision and predictability. Pros -> Precise, easy to understand, easier to extract insights. Cons -> Harder to implement, harder to train folks on, more technical stuffAI algorithm: Usually you plug in list of best customers, AI looks up common attributes and then sets up predictive model based on those attributes. Usually pretty black box. Pros -> Easy to set up, sophisticated, and uses latest tech. Cons -> Expensive, requires trust.Thanks for listening homies.If you absolutely can't wait 7 days for our finale, part 5, we'll give you a super secret link to the unpublished episode if you sign up for new episode notifications here humansofmartech.com. :)--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusPodcast artwork font by StarJedi Special Edition by Boba Fonts

Okay, you’ve got everyone to agree on a flow chart; you look like a wizard for building it all out, now the easy part, right? Is it the easy part?It should be the easy part but what I’ve often seen is that folks deploying lifecycle are doing it for the first time; often they are unsupported except some high level guides from vendors. Once you get it down, it can be highly formulaic. As a marketer, you’re kind of in between your data team/revops/IT/bizops and sales, your end users. I see the role bridging the gap between was possible on the tech side and balancing what the end user wants, not always sales, sometimes marketing. But it can be stressful managing these projects. Some companies have massive programs that are triggered off of lifecycle stage changes. So what’s the formula? First, you need strong stage definitions. Hand-in-hand with this is knowing what constitutes a transition. I think the transition part of lifecycle is often where people get hung up. Mechanism for transition needs to be a data signal of some sort. Moving from Marketing side of the fence to Sales side needs a clear hand off.3 typical mechanisms for transitioning records are: Lead Scoring - MarketingContact Status - Sales handoffsOpportunity Staging - Sales pipelineQuestion - You’ve talked to me quite a bit about the difference between lifecycle stages and contact statuses. This can be super confusing to folks new to automation. What’s the difference and why’s it important? Lifecycle Stage = RoadmapContact Status = Traffic lightsOne of the big value points of deploying a solid lifecycle is reporting. What are you doing during set up to make sure your reporting is top-notch post deployment?Timestamp fields -- super easy!Contact status fields -- review your rejected leadsAttribution fields -- hard code these valuesTake a look at tools within the systems themselves: HubSpot has attribution tools, Marketo has revenue cycle modellerHow simple is all this really? I mean, once you know your way around lifecycle, it’s actually not that hard to deploy? In terms of a technical problem, it’s a solved problem. You can mix and match components, and tailor things to your needs. The real challenge will always be getting buy-in:You might have genius idea for contact status that requires additional data input from sales people.This is a great way to turn people against you, and our finale will dive deeper into this!  Thanks for listening! Make sure you check out part 1 and 2 in the previous two episodes and stay tuned for part 4 and 5.If you absolutely can't wait 7 days for the next episode, we'll give you a super secret link to unpublished episodes if you sign up for new episode notifications here humansofmartech.com.--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusPodcast artwork font by StarJedi Special Edition by Boba Fonts

You want to keep your project neatly scoped and deliver this project on time. Give a skinny MVP and build upon it rather than starting with a complex model that no one will ever use.We've seen these types of projects be it scoring or lifecycle go into dark rabbit holes and never emerge.You build a 5 step process, but somewhere in the depths of the definition of a picklist value in step 1.15 has erupted this debate between sales and product……… Let's preface the value of project management for these types of projects, and even talk about why a lot of marketers don’t really work on these skills enough.Project management is key to getting lifecycle off the ground.How do you organize projects to ensure they don’t go down the rabbit hole? I used to think that anybody could manage projects and it wasn’t a great skill to specialize in. And then I discovered how bad I was at it. I’ve gotten pretty hardcore about projects, particularly when I’m working as a consultant. I like a 5 stage model based on Discovery, Design, Build, Deploy, and Review. Each stage has clear deliverables so that we know when to leave that stage. I’m also pretty hardcore on timelines. I’d rather we hit a timeline and reduce scope than expand timelines to keep scope.One thing I’ve seen ops people obsess about a bit too much is these micro stages in between stages. Your main stages are Lead to MQL but along that path a lead might get confirmed and engaged. How many micro stages is too many? At the end of the day it’s about conversion rates and you don’t want to muddy your table with too many percentages. Lifecycle really allows for measurement of conversion points.Question: JT, I know you’ve worked in Marketo and HubSpot. Marketo gives you unlimited freedom, but HubSpot’s default lifecycle stage is fixed. What model do you like better? Yeah, I’ve used Marketo for 7 years before I started working HubSpot. At first, I was like, of eff this noise with HubSpot. But I’m a little more lenient - HubSpot forces you to simplify and focus on really key stages. Going from MQL to SQL is a big change - one that can trigger insights if you’ve got your analytics tuned properly. Also, no one is making you use HubSpot’s properties - you can totally spin up your own. I think as a mental exercise, it’s better to lean more toward the HubSpot model than completely reinventing the wheel.This is the type of trivial details that bogs down the project. You want to customize things, but you don’t overcomplicate things. We talk about the importance of alignment in this endeavour and something I’ve wrestled with a lot has been the best vehicle to communicate to my team what is happening along the lifecycle. The scoring, the micro stages, the touch points, the segments, the emails the in app messages. Like as much of that story as possible.How do you prevent this type of scope creep that’s bound to happen as everyone starts to unpack things?I think it’s so important to use a visualization tool like a flowchart -- LucidChart, Mural, or whatever -- to show your lifecycle. People are resistant to complexity when you start to chart things out for them. No one wants a complex process but we often arrive at complex solutions before we’re trying to compromise. By using a flow chart, you start to grind away at the concerns folks have that this stage isn’t represented or whatever. It also allows you to show that there’s a lot that goes into each stage. Like an MQL stage that depends on scoring also requires building a scoring program. The concept of an MVP is so important here. It gives us unrivaled permission to push something that isn’t 100% what we want. It’s a forcing function that gets something out the door. It’s like conversion rate testing -- everyone just leaves you alone as soon as you say, “oh, I’m testing this.”You do need two things before this magic trick grows old: 1) you need to follow up with future deliverables; 2) you need to show data. For lifecycle, it’s getting an initial report into your stakeholders hands. This isn’t a PhD dissertation - it’s something you need to do and deploy.Thanks for listening folks. Doon't forget to check out part 1 in the last episode.If you absolutely can't wait 7 days for the next episode, we'll give you a super secret link to unpublished episodes if you sign up for new episode notifications here humansofmartech.com.--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusPodcast artwork font by StarJedi Special Edition by Boba Fonts

Main takeaway:Set yourself up for long term success with a solid Lifecycle program. Not only does it help you exert control and mastery over your reporting, it provides a framework for having tough discussions between sales & marketing.It opens up career opportunities - average salary according to glassdoor and others for lifecycle marketing manager is $80-$120K - yeah, you unlock big value for your own career.This topic is too big for a single post, so here’s what’s in store:This episode, episode 1: the what & why of lifecycleEpisode 2: How to avoid overthinking implementing a lifecycleEpisode 3: How to design a basic lifecycle that actually worksEpisode 4: Picking the right MQL & scoring model for lifecycleEpisode 5: No sales people were harmed in the making of lifecycleTraditionally, a lot of companies refer to leads as if you’re taking their temperature. Hot medium and cold leads. The system isn’t really based off of metrics and is not an effective way to sort leads for sales. There’s no consideration for a lead’s progression from first visit to conversion then to customer. In this scenario, marketing and sales often clash because there’s no system in place to create alignment. Sales isn’t tackling leads in the most optimal way. Marketing is generating leads that sales might not care about. What is lifecycle, JT? How do you define it?Lifecycle is the journey contacts in your database take to become a customer. It mirrors your typical funnel journey and operates in much the same way. Unlike funnel, lifecycle is a bit more specific to conditions in your database. Your funnel has basic stages that describe the buyer’s journey: awareness through interest, evaluation, purchase, etc. They are totally compatible! But lifecycle requires data properties or fields in your marketing automation platform to track. Everyone gets lost in acronym land. Enterprise teams largely follow the standards from the SiriusDecisions waterfall model. What are the standard stages as you see it, and do you think they have to be customized/adapted for each company?Let’s run through them quick:Lead - Yeah, someone in your databaseMQL - a marketing qualified lead -- literally exactly as it sounds -- marketing qualifies leadsSAL - sales accepted lead - leads that sales agrees to work withSQL - sales qualified - leads that sales qualifies - common in team where front-line sales reps qualify leads to send to account executivesOpportunity - it’s got an open opportunity Customer - they’ve purchased! Of course, you can do whatever you want! I’m not your mother!This is a cross section of the database. To me, this is table stakes for any MAP.Benefits are huge but can be summed up in two points:Mastery over your contact DBA common language for sales & marketingSo I’m putting my startup hat on, maybe the ops person on that team is wearing many other hats and doesn’t have time to build all these fields and time stamps and create all this alignment.  If you don’t have the cycle, at lest start with master lifecycle lists. Some kind of way to get a sense of what stage people are in your db. Because this is a big project, there’s no getting around that.Multiple teams agreeing on definitions and standard operating procedures. So like every problem, there’s a systems and tech side, how to implement what's possible, but there’s the human side, if we build this, will it be used, is this helping people? Do people even want this?What makes this project so hard?Lots of stakeholders, the people side is so much harder. Lots of things that need to be agreed upon. Can be sprawling and daunting if your DB is a mess. Needs long term follow up after deployment to be successful. Traditional sales folks who have a process that works well enough often see this as as theoretical or not as important as revenue driving activities. One thing I’ll say here is that this can never be pitch as a marketing idea, it can never be pitched as a top down initiative. This has to be something that is built through the alignment of sales and marketing. Dual buy-in, common languages. JT, I know you’ve done this in Marketo and HubSpot for clients and in-house -- it’s potentially a huge project… Why on earth should anyone take on this project?It’s 101 for anyone looking to go deep into marketing operations and opens up a super cool avenue for your career. It will allow you to attain mastery over your database. It opens up career opportunities - average salary according to glassdoor and others for lifecycle marketing manager is $120K - yeah, you unlock big value for your own career.Stay tuned for part 2/5 next week.If you absolutely can't wait 7 days for the next episode, we'll give you a super secret link to unpublished episodes if you sign up for new episode notifications here: www.humansofmartech.com.--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusPodcast artwork font by StarJedi Special Edition by Boba Fonts

Our guest today is Jonathan Simon. Jonathan is Director of Marketing and Professor of Digital Marketing at Telfer School of Management - University of Ottawa. He teaches an undergrad and a master’s level course. Before that, he also taught at Algonquin college for almost 4 years. So he’s been teaching marketing for a while, since 2014. But he hasn’t always been a prof… He’s worked in-house before, best known in Ottawa for his expertise in mobile marketing and the gaming industry. He was Director of Marketing at Magmic – a leading publisher of mobile games working with global brands like Hasbro and Mattel. He’s an extremely well networked marketer, he’s found more jobs for marketing students in Canada than any other prof in history, ever.It's not every day you get to interview a Professor. Some of the topics we cover in the episode:How do you teach while also being a Director of marketing?Do you still need to do a degree out of highschool to have a successful and happy career in marketing? What are some of the best side projects students can take on to help get them jobs early on? How do you manage interns and fresh marketers? How do you stay happy in your career while managing multiple hobbies and being a father?--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

- MOPs is an amazing career, and the number 1 skill you need is curiosity. Nick got his start owning a Marketo instance and rapidly acquired the skills required to be a MOPs leader in one of Canada’s hottest startups- From a strong foundation in-house, Nick has moved consulting side, and will compare notes about why the switch may be one you should think about in your careerNick is a highly talented marketing ops professional.He started his career in marketing with a quick stint in a creative agency before spending the better part of the next 6 years of his career working in-house for companies of different sizes and different industries. Nick brings a lot of passion and enthusiasm to his work which has helped him rapidly learn the world of martech.Nick really came into his own working at Solace in the tech industry where he picked up Marketo and hasn’t looked back since. Nick recently made the move back to the agency world where he’ll be a Consultant at Perkuto--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

Marketers are wasting energy deciding the ideal CTA to add to a landing page. Let’s vote on it, or let’s test it.The ideal CTA is based on who the visitor is and where they are in their lifecycle, not what your A/B tests are showing or your internal debates.Instead of obsessing about picking the best CTA per page for all your visitors, you should be serving different CTAs to different visitors.Let's start by painting a picture: When a person lands on a homepage you have multiple options for getting them to the next step. We call this the call to action; the CTA. It’s best to limit the number of CTAs in most things you do. But it’s hard to pick. What’s the best CTA to put on your blog? Newsletter? Ebook? Trial? Demo? Webinar? What about your homepage?The ideal CTA depends on who the visitor is more than what you think should be their next step. So why not show a different CTA to different users?Area snippets or dynamic areas or dynamic content, there's different buzzwords for it. They allow you to do this.Instead of picking just one CTA.You can show; an education call to action to new visitorsa product tutorial call to action to existing trial usersand a onboarding call to action to new customersAll on the same page, using the same line of code.JT: In a lot of cases, forms are tied to the website and you need some front end help. HTML, little side of CSS. It can be tricky to completely own forms for marketers.PG: Many ways to do this, common way is to use form handlers, or you build the native form in your MAP and you build a custom HTML form on your site, you connect the two forms via API + javascriptJT: However you do it, Zapier or JS, when someone fills out the HTML form it triggers a form submission event in your MAP.PG: If you have an eng team, you’re probably doing something custom, gives you more control over the look and feel of the site.If you don’t have technical support, Zapier can basically hook up to any api. So you can use a third party form tool like convertflow, formkeap, typeform, you can send events from Zapier to your MAP. JT: Okay so you mentioned a few tools there, let's say you work in a smaller company, don't have marketo or pardot or maybe even hubspot, what form builders do you recommend?PG: I'm a big fan of convertflow. More than just a form platform. Coolest ability is using dynamic areas of your site to show different forms to different people. They call them area snippets. Traditionally, forms and content upgrades are static and specific to a page, they are hard coded in the html of your page. But what convertflow does is lets you place a dynamic area code in your body, and CF will display a different form based on who the user is. So you can show a trial form to a content lead and a webinar form to customers.But you can also create a new form for your email course on how to start a podcast for example, and instead of manually injecting that code in a bunch of pages, you can set your new form to show up in every area snippet on pages where URL contains (how-to) or has tags=top of funnel.And once users have seen that form already, you can show them a new form. JT: I guess Marketo has some of that functionality right? It’s a bit messier. You can use dynamic content and embed that on your site or use a Marketo lp entirely. But I guess not everyone is using a Marketo. Convertflow certainly looks cooler.What are some of the other tools that do something similar? I know you're big on site personalization tools.PG: Yeah that's when we get into tools like Proof or Mutiny. They got hot onto the scene when they claimed AB testing was dead. And it's a really interesting take we could probably do a whole episode on.JT: Ohh yeah I've heard this. This is the, why launch an AB test on your site for ALL visitors, when you can test only the audience you care about.PG: Exactly. Most A/B tests today have very muddied results but are thrown around like gospel. Imagine the homepage. If you're launching an AB test on your homepage, a bunch of people you don't care about are muddying the results of your test. Customers, students.JT: So what are some of the most common playbooks for this? Like how can someone use tools like these to drive revenue? PG: I see vertical segmentation as the most popular. So that would be like Transistor showing e-commerce podcasts on their homepage to potential ecommerce visitors.But company size and industry is also really powerful. Doing things like showing different customer logos based on whether the person viewing your site is enterprise or startup. Or showing an H1 of "The best podcast tool for Real estate pros" to real estate leads but to retail leads they see "The best podcast tool for Retail leaders".JT: That's super cool. But I know some folks would find this creepy.PG: Yeah for sure. There's a line. and A way to do it well.You want to try to provide value without being creepy.Instead of having your homepage saying Hey Jonathan Taylor. Welcome back. Here’s how other B2B SaaS companies are using our tool.You can keep your normal headline but change your H2, which in this case is a customer review, it reads:“The best podcast hosting tool I've used”So for e-comm identified visitors, you change H2 to showing a review that has ecomm or retail in the body, like“I host my ecomm podcast with Transistor and it’s the bomb.fm”And for B2B SaaS companies it’s“You had me at: Basecamp uses Transistor”.JT: A lot of this is powered by reverse-IP lookup right? Like Clearbit reveal.PG: Yeah I’m not an expert in this space by any means but I’ve heard a lot of smart folks say that covid and remote work is really hurting the accuracy of this data. Unless you’re all logging in using a VPN, it’s hard to associate personal home-based traffic IP to corporate or business traffic. --Intro music by Wowa via Unminus