The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics

Today, I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Andy Luttrell, a social psychologist who has (at least so far) devoted his career to understanding people’s opinions. You know I love a good question, and he is mostly curious about those opinions people hold onto really tightly and can’t seem to let go of. As he asks on his website, “Why do we hold some views that define us and others that we’re happy to change?”  Such an interesting topic, and I am excited to let you hear some of his findings on the science of opinions and how that ties in with persuasion in our conversation today.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Andy Luttrell, professor and host of the Opinion Science Podcast. [03:15] Andy, a social psychologist, shares about himself and his background.  [05:45] In some cultures, our view of ourselves is ever changing. Others are more fixed. [08:17] Your audience is going to have its own way that it prefers to navigate certain questions. The way you present yourself and your brand image, or the messages you communicate with ought to take that audience’s preference into account.  [09:56] Oftentimes, we have to pick what works for our brand and just go with it.  [10:41] If someone sees their stance as rooted in morality, they are often not going to budge.  [11:18] If the message matches the kind of opinion the audience already has, it is going to go further.  [12:49] When we are trying to talk about these moral issues, sometimes we feel like we want to retreat from talking about morals, but that is exactly the dimension that the audience cares about (and has proven to be more persuasive).  [14:54] Are logical arguments the most persuasive or are emotional arguments the most persuasive? It depends on who you are talking to.  [15:56] Most people are not only logical or emotional people. It also depends on the context of what you are talking about.  [17:20] There are all sorts of ways personality variables can come into play with the persuasion process.  [18:34] Anyone has the potential to change their mind. Some personality variables can have to do with one's willingness to engage with certain ideas.  [20:20] Some research shows that we can sell our products or ideas framed in terms of the personality traits that define you best and that is going to have more leverage.  [21:34] The personality of the person you are trying to influence is going to determine which message is going to be most impactful.  [23:29] If we are framing something in terms of a very political audience and the wrong person comes across it, that might actually tarnish the image or backfire. If you are working in a sensitive space, be aware.  [25:45] We have this foundational understanding of persuasion that goes back to the 40’s.  [26:07] Persuasion is at the heart of what we do every day. It doesn’t feel like we are trying to constantly influence the people around us, but we are talking about our opinions almost all the time.  [27:06] There are always going to be some growing pains in the application process.  [29:09] We can have good guesses but we don’t have specificity.  [31:10] If you run the same simulation a dozen times it is not going to go exactly the same in each one. There is a bunch of stuff you can never really account for.  [32:26] You run the risk of chasing things that are not relevant if you have too much to account for.  [33:40] Persuasion is about changing your evaluation of something.  [35:14] A strong opinion is one that people say they will not change and it will be the thing that guides the decisions they make.  [37:22] One place confidence comes from is consensus. If we think most people hold the same opinion, we become confident in it (for better or worse).  [39:46] Strength is an important part of the equation in getting people from one side to another.  [40:19] One interesting way people have looked at persuasion is through self affirmation.  [41:29] You are perfect with room for improvement.  [43:27] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [45:13] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion By Robert Cialdini Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life By Kwame Christian Influence PEOPLE: Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical By Brian Ahearn Marketing to Mindstates: The Practical Guide to Applying Behavior Design to Research and Marketing By Will Leach How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be By Katy Milkman Connect with Andy:  Andy’s Website Opinion Science Podcast Opinion Science Podcast on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  A megastudy of text-based nudges encouraging patients to get vaccinated at an upcoming doctor’s appointment Episode 146: Using Anchoring in Negotiations, an Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 104: How To Ethically Influence People: Interview with Author Brian Ahearn Episode 157: Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion Episode 88: Marketing to Mindstates: A Discussion With Author, Will Leach Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 151: How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman Cognitive Dissonance - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Back on episode 160, I was joined by Dr. Matt Johnson to discuss his book Blindsight and the work he and his counterpart were doing at Pop Neuro. Today, that counterpart, Prince Ghuman, is here to expand on that conversation and discuss some more amazing work.  One of the things I loved in the book, and that Prince and I really expanded on today, is why we like the things we like. Some of what we discuss today tie back to my recent interview with Dr. Troy Campbell in episode 169 on the Science of Cool. It was a much-loved episode and I expect similar high praise from today’s conversation! Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Prince Ghuman, coauthor of Blindsight. [02:57] Prince Ghuman shares about himself, his background, and how he got into the world of behavioral science and marketing. He is an author and professor.  [05:11] Prince and Matt are founders of Pop Neuro where they teach marketers how to ethically apply neuroscience to marketing.  [06:07] One of the things lacking in the marketing curriculum is a heavier emphasis on neuroscience and psych.  [07:05] If we are marketers, we are fundamentally students of human behavior and human psychology.  [09:37] The principle piece is as important if not more important than the traditional neuroscience imaging techniques.  [11:38] He would love for there to be one person on each marketing team that specializes in neuromarketing principles because, at the end of the day, marketers want to create good marketing and good brand experiences. Consumers also want to be charmed by brands, products, and experiences.  [13:31] Cross-functional teams are the answer. Having one neuromarketer on every marketing team is the bare minimum. Every marketing position should understand behavioral science.  [16:03] The next operating system of marketing is more deeply scientific.  [17:06] The more we philosophically touch and experience something, the more we are likely to prefer it.  [17:50] We like things that are different because we like novelty, and we like things that are similar because we like the safety of similar things. If something is too new it hurts adoption. If something is too safe it hurts adoption. It needs to be somewhere between new and safe. [18:48] Sandwiching something new in between two familiar things helps bump up the likability.  [19:48] Early adopters have a higher acceptance of an imbalance of new and safe when it is tilted towards new. Late adopters are tilted towards safety.  [22:43] When Oreo brings out new cookies, it gets them back on your radar even if you don’t try the new types.  [23:27] Listener Question! Attention is based on the brain's statistical learning tendency. Our brains are also taking into account and picking up on patterns.  [26:04] Unpredictability gives you a bigger hit of dopamine. Unpredictability hits the reward center a lot harder. The brain’s pattern-seeking behavior primarily happens behind the scenes. It just drives a lot of what we do.  [28:27] It is called the “pursuit of happiness” because it is the pursuit that gives us the most amount of happiness, not the achievement of happiness.  [30:10] Unpredictability works to increase engagement.  [32:59] Today’s new thing that you hate is replacing something that was new once (and that you hated then).  [35:25] As much as we want to point a finger at companies that are using digital products to model behavior, we also have to look at ourselves. Until we decide to kick our addiction to “free” it is going to be really hard to kick our addiction to Instagram.  [37:48] For marketers, the challenge is to understand neuroscience and psychology throughout the entire marketing process so we can create better products, brands, and experiences.  [39:01] The answer to bad marketing isn’t no marketing. It is better marketing. Neuroscience is the way to do it.  [41:46] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [43:54] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains By Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman Neurobranding: Strategies for shaping consumer behavior By Peter Steidl   Thinking, Fast and Slow By Daniel Kahneman A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas By Warren Berger The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story By Michelle Auerbach The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference By Malcolm Gladwell Crossing the Chasm, 3rd Edition: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers By Geoffrey Moore Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products By Nir Eyal Connect with Prince:  Pop Neuro Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  We Asked: Why Does Oreo Keep Releasing New Flavors? Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 160: Neuroscience and Psychology in the Business World, An Interview with Matt Johnson Episode 15: Availability: Why People Are More Likely To Get Flood Insurance Right After a Flood: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On?: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Mere Exposure Effect - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

I know you have a lot of options for what to listen to, and I’m glad you chose The Brainy Business. Especially because (as you’ll hear about on today’s episode), due to the paradox of choice, having too many options and decisions can leave people paralyzed instead of empowered. That paralysis can make it so people don’t make any decision at all, so you stick with the status quo of scrolling Instagram or playing a game on your phone. With over 2 million podcasts out there to compete with (plus all the YouTube channels, Netflix, and other streaming services, music options like Spotify and Pandora), plus games and email, and...well you get the idea...There are a lot of options out there that could have made tuning in a very complicated choice. In today’s episode, I will tell you all about the paradox of choice: what it is, and why it matters for you in life and in business (including some tips for creating and presenting options to your current and potential customers). Show Notes: [00:06] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about the paradox of choice. [03:02] As I mentioned in the introduction, the paradox of choice is a term and concept popularized by Barry Schwartz, whose book and popular TED talk have been shared around the world. [04:42] When presented with too many choices (like we have in most societies today) people become paralyzed, stressed, and feel stuck. It can cause mental anguish and regret. Some choices are good, but too much and we are definitely worse off. [05:24] The really important thing to know is that adding some choice is important. Because we humans can’t value one-off items, having at least some choice and comparison helps us to make a decision and feel good about it, but too many and we get overwhelmed. [07:15] When there are too many choices, our brains get overloaded. [09:41] It is easier to stick with what we have always done than to look for something that may or may not be better.  [11:42] Your subconscious is dealing with this sort of letdown constantly. It can get very taxing over time and it’s no wonder our brains rebel at the idea of evaluating too many options. [13:14] In a world where there is always another option, always a list of potential matches and the feeling that (much like the pair of jeans) perfection is “just one search away”...it can be hard to settle even when the choice is something you would be incredibly happy with. That constant thought of “what if” can be too much for many to bear. [13:53] Anticipated regret can have a huge impact on behavior. We want to choose wisely and, frustratingly, this pursuit of perfection (or even just a little bit better) can cause us to make worse decisions. [15:02] The important thing to know is that while it seems like lots of choice and infinite options would make us happier (increasing our freedom and wellbeing to use the terms from earlier) that just isn’t how it works. [17:12] A maximizer is always looking for the best of the best. They want to make sure that they choose whatever is objectively the best there is every single time. That anyone else could look at and know that it is conclusively “the best choice”. [17:28] Satisficers are people who find something that is “good enough” and feel satisfied with that choice. Once satisficers find something they are happy with, they are good to go and don’t necessarily dwell on “what might have been” too much. Even if there was a better option out there you could have made, you are subjectively happy and therefore at peace with the decision. [20:04] For maximizers (like my husband), these details are vital pieces of information needed to make a decision, and for satisficers (like me), it is just too much to think about. [22:45] The first tip is to choose when to choose. If you only save the big evaluation for the really important stuff, it will help you have that mental capacity when you need it and not be so stressed and overwhelmed with the small stuff. [24:07] Don’t waste a bunch of mental energy on decisions that don’t matter. Be happy with good enough whenever you can, so you can have more mental energy when you need it. [24:22] The next tip, which is to become a chooser, not a picker. [25:27] The next tip is to satisfice more and maximize less. As you just heard, satisficers are happier, less stressed, less regretful, and so much more. Good enough is often good enough. [25:58] Think about the costs of missed opportunities. In short, you should look for the balance of thinking of missed opportunities. [26:20] Next is to make your decisions nonreversible. If you aren’t able to “what if” you are more likely to be happier with a choice you made because you won’t dwell on it. [26:31] Practice an attitude of gratitude. There are lots of studies that find we are happier and better off when we appreciate what we have. Be grateful for everything you have in your life [27:05] Regret less. If you don’t think about choices you have made after the fact and don’t allow regret to control you, it will allow you to be happier overall. [27:19] Anticipate adaptation. We naturally adapt to any situation – plan accordingly to avoid constantly chasing the next high. [27:53] Control expectations. When there are too many choices, the expectations for something to be perfect are far too high, and because nothing can really live up to that standard, you end up with a recipe for always being disappointed with items not meeting unrealistic expectations [28:21] Curtail social comparison. What is your happiness worth and how do things change if you add that into your evaluation? Eliminating social comparisons can help with that. [29:11] His last tip is to learn to embrace constraints. Limiting options and reducing possible choices can help you to fulfill these other tips on the list. Embrace the idea of constraints and set up some firm rules for yourself to follow around choice. You will be surprised about how they help your mental state. [30:30] NOW, my tips for business applications (which are different than on an individual level. First, is to know that people are generally overwhelmed with all the decisions they are having to make every day. [31:00] You also want to really consider what choice they are making and what the defaults are. [33:15] When someone asks for your recommendation – give it, and don’t provide more than two options. Be enthusiastic about it, explaining a little of why you like it to prime them for excitement. [34:56] To summarize, you are going to limit the options you present and show that you are the expert (and did the heavy lifting for them) by making recommendations and helping work with those herding instincts by including some social proof. [35:25] If you implement your social proof and relativity and structure the decision well, it can make a decision easier without people getting so overwhelmed that they walk out. They can feel like there are a lot of options, but you can still nudge and guide them along the way to reduce the number of decisions and make them easier. I’m calling this the “illusion of choice.” [37:42] Consider the customer experience – who is searching? What problem are they solving? What is the best solution? How can you make it obvious that it is the best choice for most people to help them decide? [39:17] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less, Revised Edition By Barry Schwartz You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence By Jon Levy Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Paradox of Choice: Ted Talk with Barry Schwartz The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz The Paradox of Choice When Choice is Demotivating: Can One Desire Too Much of a Good Thing? More Isn’t Always Better Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 32: The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Episode 76: The Brainy Benefits of Gratitude Episode 68: Counterfactual Thinking: Why We ‘What If’ And ‘If Only’ (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Regret Aversion (coming soon, episode TBD) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

A few weeks ago, I had the honor of being a speaker at Greenbook’s IIEX Behavior Conference, an amazing event that brings people together from around the world to talk about behavior and insights and so much more. My piece of this event was doing a live podcast interview with Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis for the session called When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience.  A couple of weeks ago, Sam Albert joined me to discuss AI and its role in behavioral science, and this conversation with Ingrid was so fantastic and really building on that. I was delighted when the team at Greenbook said I could share this conversation here with you on The Brainy Business. This is the exact audio from that conference, and if you want to see it in video form, it will be shared via my free global community, the BE Thoughtful Revolution when the episode airs.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m thrilled to introduce you to Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis, head of science at Alpha.One. [00:56] My piece at Greenbook’s IIEX Behavior Conference was a live podcast interview with Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis for the session called When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience.  [03:21] Ingrid shares about herself, her background in neuroscience, and what she does as head of science at Alpha.One. She is trained as a neuroscientist. [05:03] After a whole academic career, she joined a start-up company where she used similar techniques to measure consumers’ responses. Then she moved to New York and worked with the marketing department at Facebook. After ten years, she moved back to the Netherlands and joined Alpha.One. [07:49] Ingrid has done amazing work over her career.  [09:12] Expoze.io is a technique based on deep learning.  [09:54] Deep neural networks are networks that are based on the brain layers and instead of having to tell the network what the rules are. If you have a lot of data the network can figure out the rules itself. To train this network you need a lot of labeled data.  [11:16] When you have this big data set where you have all this labeled data, you can actually get the network to create a heat map that is very similar to reality.  [14:14] Branding is very important. In the long term, to build value you have to build your brand.  [15:14] Building a brand and being able to communicate your brand in your packaging and ads is so essential for successful marketing and branding in general.  [17:43] We are so wired for social interaction that our eyes are unconsciously drawn to faces and are attracted to them.  [18:43] With small changes, you can really change how something is drawing attention.  [19:48] They are currently building a product that is measuring brand value. They are focusing on getting measurements on brands.  [21:34] Contrast is going to draw our attention.  [23:02] There is always a balance between the story you want to tell, the emotion you want to create, and how you want to draw people in.  [24:00] If your story has to build up and there is no brand in the first few seconds it is almost a wasted impression.  [26:20] Really good creative agencies are able to integrate a brand into a story in a way that isn’t intrusive and the brand can really be the hero in the story.  [28:25] You have to really work to create multi-disciplinary teams.  [29:41] Statistics is an area that is so important and not always present in companies. So much of what we are currently doing is big data.  [30:37] Be open to multi-disciplinary teams and realize that it helps. When you take the time, really good things automatically emerge and it becomes very fulfilling and rewarding for everyone.  [32:38] There is so much we can learn from each other if we are just open to it.  [32:55] Having a diverse team is really important in making sure you can think about as much as possible before you launch.  [33:25] Often you need the input from all the areas to actually get it right.  [34:18] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [35:35] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Ingrid: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 1) Alpha.One Ingrid on LinkedIn Greenbook IIEX Behavior Conference Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! Episode 166: Sam Albert Episode 169: Troy Campbell Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today is a very fun episode about something that you might not think has a science to it, but definitely does which is so amazing! My guest is Troy Campbell, who got his Ph.D. at Duke University and has worked at/for Disney, Netflix, Nike (and much more) as well as taught at the University of Oregon. He has done so many cool things so far in his career, and he is here to talk about how you can do the same by incorporating the science of cool. Coolness may feel intangible. Like it is this enigma some brands or people just have or don’t and if you aren’t cool you just have to accept it. But as Troy will show us today, that doesn’t have to be the case. There is a science to it and there are lots of important lessons for your brand (and even making something as mundane as meetings more fun, effective, and cool). Listen to learn this and more in today’s episode... Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Troy Campbell, Chief Scientist at On Your Feet. [01:21] There is a science to cool and there are lots of important lessons for your brand. [03:51] Troy shares about himself, his background, and how he got into behavioral science. [05:23] Behavioral science has the closest thing to a magic spellbook that exists.  [07:14] He shares an origin story about a lecture he created based on the song “Everything is Awesome” from The Lego Movie.  [10:12] On Your Feet is a group that brings more joy, less fear, and better results to everything in business.  [10:55] Suffering from meeting burnout? The first thing to do is include the right warm-up for the meeting. Different meetings need different warm-ups.  [11:47] Tell the story of the meeting. [13:57] It is a personal warm-up because the thing you need to do is warm up people talking, chatty, and being with each other. In non virtual spaces, it is usually accomplished when you walk in and start talking to the person sitting next to you.  [15:40] Melina shares about using story cubes.  [16:39] Another great warm-up activity is a scavenger hunt.  [17:27] The mind is not a Tesla Roadster that can go from 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds. It’s more like an old Ford. It is reliable if you give it time to warm up.  [18:17] In general, everyone wants to be cool to some degree. We all want to feel cool, we all want to give people cool experiences, and we as a brand have to need to be cool to our audience.  [19:02] Cool is autonomously breaking the norm in a somewhat positive way. [20:44] There is no objective cool. Cool is all about norms, individuals, and the way to engage with the norms.  [23:09] Cool is breaking free from the norm. Cool is finding a norm that people don’t think is that great and resisting that norm to an audience that likes it.  [24:08] We all want to feel as if we have this ability to autonomously break free from a negative norm in a positive way. As a brand, we want to create these cool things so we are seen as cool and we want other people to feel cool when they are using our brands.  [26:37] Troy shares one of his favorite moments ever from a workshop. [28:57] When companies break the norm in a positive way, it is the psychological feeling of cool.  [30:09] Metamodernism is this type of culture that we are in right now which is people really mixing things together in positive ways.  [32:26] Putting the old and new together has been a useful tool.  [34:07] What is too safe for one person is not too safe for another person. It is very difficult to be cool to everyone. (Know your niche!!) [35:29] Break a norm that is in line with something they need or ideology. In order to truly be cool, you need to go through really good design workshops.  [37:14] Let people be different. We need to see the whole spectrum of talents in behavioral science and allow that to happen.  [40:35] The brain is so complex. That melting pot of a field is so important for moving it forward.  [41:33] There are some things about behavioral science that are not fascinating--but they are still incredibly important and take skill to master. What is really great about behavioral science is the nuances and sophistication we bring around that.  [43:43] With behavioral science we can be incredibly valuable with quick responses and turnarounds for getting people unstuck.  [45:23] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [47:29] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! [spacer height="15px"]More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Troy:  On Your Feet Tingen Industries Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 20: Defaults: Why The Pre-Selected Choice Wins More Often Than Not: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On?: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 158: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 128: How to Build Products That Create Change, An Interview with Matt Wallaert Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 54: Biases Toward Novelty and Stories Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Niedziela, VP of Research and Innovation at HCD Research. She is also an editorial board member of the Neuromarketing Science and Business Association (or NMSBA) and part of the brains behind the upcoming NeuroU Conference which is taking place virtually this year, September 13-15, 2021 (and I am sure will happen in future years as well in case you are listening to this later). Michelle will talk about it in the conversation as well, but I am very excited to say that I am going to be a speaker at the conference this year, so it is definitely the time to register and come join us! In today’s episode, Michelle shares her expertise in the senses – particularly smell and taste – and how important they are for brands. Ever thought about what moisture smells like? Or what scent will make people prefer one towel over the other? Listen to learn this and more in today’s episode... Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Niedziela, VP of research and innovation at HCD Research. [03:13] Michelle shares about herself, her background, and how she got into behavioral science. [05:08] The majority of her education background is more around taste and smell. Most people don’t think about taste and smell too much or realize how important it is in their lives.  [06:37] She has worked in academia with rodents looking at genetics. She built her career for over ten years studying rat and mouse models of feeding behavior and genetic influences until she developed an allergy to rats and mice.  [08:16] Then she ended up taking a job as a Senior Scientist at Johnson & Johnson leading their behavioral science and innovation program for taste and smell.  [08:54] People don’t really realize how important the senses are in product design and development.  [10:29] Product and brand is so much more than advertising and logos. It really is the product experience as well. You can lead people with sensory clues.  [13:18] In order to ensure consumer satisfaction and success of the product experience you really have to make sure all the senses align. Does it fit the brand? [15:24] Michelle shares how fragrances can have an effect on the product experience.  [16:24] Sensory branding is a very interesting world.  [17:40] Brand harmony can bring it all together to make sure it is creating an overall perception.  [20:03] They have a lot of different questions that come to them. They are the problem solvers that come in to help their clients.  [22:02] It is about finding the right combination of tools to uncover and meet the consumer needs.  [24:18] Michelle and her team also look at packaging and people’s perception of packaging. The words, color, and texture all drive perceptions and build a picture.  [26:24] In marketing and brand strategy we feel like we need to do more and be everywhere, but then you’re nothing to nobody.  [28:27] You don’t want to alienate your consumer.  [29:34] Michelle shares about creating your sensory footprint.  [30:18] The larger the sensory footprint the stronger you are to grab that nostalgia. Sensory is a form of communication.  [32:44] There is a lot of interesting research out there with sensory and food science. The size, color, and weight of the plate can influence your enjoyment of it, how you rate it, and how much you eat overall.  [34:48] As long as your brand is strong enough in their understanding of what your ultimate goal is, you can increase the goal and perception, but it does require a lot of research.  [36:17] NeuroU is a FREE online event this year where they bring in experts to talk and educate about current topics. Come join us! [38:19] Melina is going to be a speaker at NeuroU this year - hooray!  [40:51] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [43:18] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by Jon Levy Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains by Matt Johnson Connect with Michelle: NeuroU HCD on Twitter HCD Blog HCD on YouTube Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! Episode 24: Vision Does Not Happen In The Eyes, But In The Brain – On The Sense of Sight: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 25: Why Burnt Popcorn Has Derailed So Many Meetings – On The Sense Of Smell: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 26: Why You Actually Taste With Your Nose – On The Sense Of Taste: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 27: Did You Hear That? – On The Sense of Hearing: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 28: Why Picking Something Up Makes People More Likely To Buy – On The Sense Of Touch: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 91: Coronavirus and How the Human Brain Responds to Pandemics Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 79: Why Our Brains Love Nostalgia & Traditions (And How To Incorporate Them Into Your Business Strategy) Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 61: Color Theory: When It Comes To Color, This 1 Thing Matters More Than Anything Else Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 160: Neuroscience and Psychology in the Business World, An Interview with Matt Johnson Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today’s episode is all about hindsight bias. You have probably heard the phrase “Hindsight is 20/20” and maybe even said it yourself on occasion. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but this simply isn’t true.  We humans have a hindsight bias that makes us believe we knew something “all along” when reflecting back on an incident, and this can cause all sorts of problems when making future decisions. I will cover this throughout today’s episode as well as tips for how to combat hindsight bias so it has less of an impact on you. Show Notes: [00:07] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about hindsight bias. [02:21] When we think about our brains and all the amazing things they do, much of what we are accessing are memories. [02:47] Our memories are basically inaccurate renditions our brains tell us and every time we access them, we change them a little. So, the more you think about something, the less and less it is like the original version. [03:28] Memories get further and further from the truth as time goes on, especially for those memories which are recalled again and again. [04:20] Even reading about an event in history, which feels as though it must be fully accurate, is missing details and important pieces that people didn’t even think to include or pay attention to. [06:01] In reflecting back on an event the brain will assume it has all the information on: what happened, why, and assume that it knows what to infer from that for the next time you encounter a situation like this. The problem, of course, is that you don’t have all the information. [08:32] Once the results are in it is easy to say you knew it, and it makes your overconfident, optimistic brain feel good about itself. [09:20] Our brains don’t like to have a misalignment in what we believe to be true. Your brain believes that you are smarter, better, faster, stronger than everyone else (including you 5 minutes ago). So, when something happens differently than you predicted, it looks for ways to resolve that discomfort (that dissonance) by reasoning that you “knew it all along” even when you didn’t – or often couldn’t have known. [10:12] One simple way I combat hindsight bias when doing presentations is by making people commit to an answer or instinct before sharing what the real answer is.  [11:36] If I didn’t make people say their answers out loud, commit to something in the moment in a semi-public way, even if they sort of thought of something in their head when I asked, they don’t feel committed and when the reveal came, they would not be as surprised. They would think something like, “Yeah, that makes sense. I was tossing around some numbers close to that” or whatever. [12:03] Saying their own numbers aloud and watching how far off the entire group is as everyone commits in the moment when I reveal just a few seconds later – is very powerful in getting this concept to stick in the brain. [13:33] Tip #1: Be comfortable admitting you don’t know or are surprised. [14:17] When you admit that you were surprised by something or that you didn’t know the answer, it allows you to ask why. [14:40] Tip #2: Writing things down ahead of the result. [15:15] If you have a decision diary or evaluation notebook or whatever you feel like calling it (whether it is handwritten or virtual) you can keep track of those thoughts in advance and reflect upon them to keep your hindsight bias in check when the results are in. And remember of course that your insights are only as good as the notes you take. [17:03] It doesn’t really matter what you choose, just get into the habit of writing those suspicions or ideas down upfront and how you came to the conclusion – so you can evaluate it properly in a post mortem and learn about your own decisions and flaws in your decision-making process that you can learn from in the future. [17:27] Tip #3: Review what happened, thinking through other outcomes that could have happened, and what would have made that be the case. Ask questions like, “How easily could things have been different?” or “What information might I be missing or overlooking?” [18:44] Bonus Tip #4: Don’t put too much weight on finding the exact answer and using it as a general rule of thumb for all similar decisions moving forward. Context matters.  [21:11] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award Hindsight Bias How Hindsight Bias Affects How We View the Past Why do we see unpredictable events as predictable after they occur? ‘I Knew It All Along…Didn’t I?’ – Understanding Hindsight Bias Hindsight Bias Episode 110: Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What’s Missing (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 48: An Overview of Memory Biases Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 164: How Businesses Can Design for Behavior Change, with Dr. Amy Bucher Episode 68: Counterfactual Thinking: Why We ‘What If’ And ‘If Only’ (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 163: How to Approach Negative Reviews Using Behavioral Economics Episode 158: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer Cognitive Dissonance (coming soon, episode TBD) Overconfidence (coming soon, episode TBD) Check out International Book Awards Finalist, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to talk about something I know is a common question for many these days. It is something that I get asked a lot and what I know many see as the future of behavioral economics and the overall behavioral sciences: AI.  How can AI and machine learning work with behavioral economics to help with predictive models? Do they work together at all or are they at odds? Could the industry combine these things to be more effective? Sam Albert, Chief Digital Officer at Behaviorally is here to talk about these exact questions via their very cool tool called flash.ai.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode, I’m excited to introduce you to Sam Albert, Chief Digital Officer at Behaviorally. [02:50] Sam shares about himself, his background, and how he got into behavioral economics.  [04:48] PRS changed its name to Behaviorally back in January 2021. They are really trying to understand consumer behavior and help their clients make good decisions based on that behavior.  [06:45] Understanding how consumers are acting or reacting to certain stimuli in store and then what they tell you they actually would do or how they feel could be different. It is about lining those pieces up and telling one cohesive story that is going to essentially help clients to make good business decisions to move their businesses forward.  [08:44] Behavioral science can pretty much be applied to every aspect of our lives and it is happening unbeknownst to us in every decision every day.  [10:04] The industry is moving on this trajectory towards machine learning, more broadly leveraging AI. [10:44] They came up with a system called flash.ai. They are able to take their learnings and apply them so that the machine can learn how to mimic those behaviors.  [11:30] Their system applies image recognition. The machine reacts to the visuals in a similar way to what a human would do.  [12:39] This allows them to have a cohesive platform that takes into account all of the key pieces that really (from a behavioral standpoint) drive what consumers actually do in the market.  [13:09] The change to AI was already happening and COVID accelerated that change.  [15:00] The world is becoming increasingly more digital.  [16:53] They use a dynamic system where the existing work they are doing is feeding the future models that are being built. The models are continuously being updated to reflect the real world.  [18:32] They both validate the work to ensure it is accurate and the dynamic aspect of making sure the machine is keeping up with the pace of change in the world.  [19:08] Sam shares some of the case studies for flash.ai.  [20:14] If you don’t take the context around it into account, you put yourself in a position where you can either get false positives or false negatives and essentially give the wrong direction to clients. He is most proud of the system's ability to take context into account.  [21:36] Context and nuance makes a significant difference when you are talking about behavior in general.  [23:27] They see flash.ai tool as an earlier stage tool. Flash.ai allows them to test without spending the time, money, or energy to get real consumer feedback.  [25:46] Being different is important, but you don’t want to differentiate in ways that don’t help you stand out.  [27:01] Flash.ai is the first step and hopefully it siphons down the different options that would go into a full test. Then you can fully validate those and do any fine tuning you need.  [29:29] AI is not going away. It is just a matter of what it looks like in the future. The path to purchase is going to play a critical role in what we see in the future. [31:06] You can’t run away from technology. You just have to build it into what you are doing and leverage it. AI is going to play a pretty big role in that.  [33:15] There is a lot that is lost when you switch to a digital environment. However, looking at it as an opportunity, how could we make this an amazing experience for everybody in a really powerful way? [35:58] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [37:39] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31, 2021! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Connect with Sam: Behaviorally Website Behaviorally on Twitter Flash.AI Case Studies Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 61: Color Theory: When It Comes To Color, This 1 Thing Matters More Than Anything Else Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Matej Sucha with me on the show to talk about the importance of applied behavioral economics and the work he has done to help shape the field. As you will hear in our conversation today, there are two fairly distinct camps in the behavioral sciences: the academic research and the applied. While many of us work together, there are different goals for each and there can be disagreement from time to time.  In general, I think most of us see the need for both sides and how they are necessary to help move the entire field forward. Matej is like me, an advocate for behavioral economics being used and shared in business as much as possible, which is why he recently founded and became the Editor in Chief of insideBE.com, which you will hear about on the show, in addition to his work as a managing partner at MINDWORX.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Matej Sucha, managing partner of MINDWORX and founder of insideBE. [02:56] Matej shares about himself, his work, and how he got into behavioral economics.  [04:01] This year they launched insideBE which is an app dedicated to behavioral economics in business.  [05:53] Behavioral economics doesn’t have the place it deserves in business. It is still in the phase of early adoption. It is not at the center of attention for businesses. [07:03] We have to put more emphasis on business applications.  [08:43] People want to see more practical business applications.  [10:27] Matej’s consultancy mainly focuses on the applications of consumer behavior.  [11:16] They developed their own approach for a behavioral audit in order to know when we should create an intervention and move people in the direction we want them to move.  [11:57] Matej shares one project he was fascinated by.  [14:44] When they included social proof the probability that the person would send their CV went up by 130%.  [15:14] Findings from research can inspire business solutions that are proven to work.  [15:47] Matej shares about an insurance project he worked on that was offering their customers travel insurance one year for free.  [16:56] One of the biggest mistakes that marketers make is that they only focus on how they can motivate their customers.  [19:01] They increase the conversions by understanding and removing the psychological behaviors that stood in the way.  [21:02] The problem is twofold. Companies, salespeople, marketers, and product designers don’t even think about understanding the problem and jump to creating the solutions. The second part is that they don’t know how to understand the customer and the problem.   [22:29] One tiny insight can help you create amazing solutions.  [24:34] It is about asking the right questions. Why aren’t customers doing what you want them to do? [26:08] Often the solution can be really simple.  [29:08] Timing is more important than the message itself. Timing doesn’t require a deep knowledge of behavioral science.  [30:27] When you’re a business person there is no better place to start than to learn from the amazing work of the greatest minds in the field.  [32:01] There are a lot of great resources available.  [34:16] The purpose of the content they are creating at insideBE is to first and foremost teach people how they can try themselves. The best way to get potential clients excited is to teach them as much as possible.  [37:10] “The next big thing in marketing is not technology. It is psychology.” -Rory Sutherland [37:50] If companies want to gain a competitive edge, it is psychology they should focus on.  [39:59] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [41:40] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely Ripple: The big effects of small behaviour changes in business by Jez Groom Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life by Rory Sutherland Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard Thaler Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman FRICTION―The Untapped Force That Can Be Your Most Powerful Advantage by Roger Dooley Connect with Matej:  Matej on LinkedIn Matej on Twitter insideBE.com on LinkedIn insideBe.com on Twitter MINDWORX Website MINDWORX on LinkedIn MINDWORX on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links: The Annual Market Research Podcast Award Case Study: How Redesigning a Job Ad Using Behavioral Insights Attracted Three Times More Candidates Case Study: How a Job Search Portal Increased Conversions by 154% Without Changing a Single Word in Job Ads Case Study: How an Insurance Company Increased Conversions of Direct Emails by 300% A Conversation with Cass Sunstein on Behavioral Science and Using Nudges: Recommendations for Overcoming Covid-19 Save More Tomorrow: Using Behavioral Economics to Increase Employee Saving Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 131: The BIG Effects of Small Behavior Changes in Business, an Interview with Jez Groom and April Vellacott, coauthors of Ripple Episode 140: How Simple Nudges Can Save Hundreds of Millions, interview with Dectech’s Dr. Benny Cheung Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem  Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Episode 153: Only 1% of People Blow the Whistle at Work—How to Fix That, with Nuala Walsh Episode 109: Secrets of Motivation and Incentives, Tim Houlihan Interview Dunning Kruger Effect (coming soon!) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Amy Bucher on the show to talk about how you can design for behavior change using insights from her fantastic career and wonderful book, Engaged. Amy graduated magna cum laude from Harvard when getting her A.B. in Psychology, after which she went on to get her Ph.D. in Organizational Psychology from the University of Michigan. She has been a consultant in addition to working at Johnson & Johnson, CVS, and was vice president of behavior change design at Mad*Pow before recently moving to her current role as vice president of behavioral design at Lirio. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Amy Bucher, author of Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change. [03:02] Amy shares about herself, her work, and how she got into behavioral design. She moved from a consulting role back to an in-house role.  [04:43] She loves behavioral design and she really thinks it is a wonderful application of the skills you learn in academic training.  [06:51] Amy considered actually becoming a physician. Her first job out of grad school was in healthcare.  [09:11] Amy defines behavioral design as applying the scientific method to the process of design. It is extremely compatible with human-centered design.  [10:08] Measurement is a constant in the behavioral design process. They want to be gathering data at every step; that lets them know if they are on the right track or not to adjust and optimize results.  [11:17] Amy shares one of her favorite projects looking at cities in India with an increase in diabetes.  [13:12] Amy explains why this project was so rewarding.  [15:27] As a behavioral designer it is really critical to have respect for the people you are designing something for.  [17:23] Amy shares about a project she did recently looking at behavioral health and healthcare. One of the primary barriers for people using that type of healthcare is the cost of it.  [19:05] Even if we know we are not going to make the change with speaking up in that one moment, speaking up can be like a grain of sand that will ultimately add up to something more meaningful.  [20:34] Finding that right problem is so critically important even when it seems so obvious what the issue is.  [23:25] Amy first recommends reading books to better understand behavioral economics.  [23:52] As a general process she recommends going through discovery, design, and testing.  [24:37] Here are three steps that someone who is new to behavioral design can use to get started: doing a literature review, creating an outcomes logic map for yourself, and doing a lens brainstorm.  [26:46] She also uses the self-determination theory of motivation a lot.  One of the basic ideas is if you want to get someone really intrinsically interested in something and interested to the point where they are likely to pursue it, you should support their feelings of autonomy, competence, and relatedness. [28:12] Amy shares an example of putting these into action.  [29:39] Be comfortable with the gray area.  You will go through a lot of the process not really knowing yet, but the process works.  [31:00] Primary research is a really big part. Behavioral design work is very heavy upfront with all the research.  [32:52] As a behavioral designer after the research her role becomes someone who is making sure that all of the intervention ingredients are being brought to life with fidelity.  [34:13] There are certain types of behaviors that are compatible with certain types of intervention.  [35:31] Sometimes what we think is the problem, doesn’t turn out to be the problem when we do the research.  [38:53] Every project is different.  [39:38] Amy shares an example from her book of an Outcome Logics Map.  [42:06] The visual reminder of what our brain is doing is very helpful.  [42:58] Such small things can produce such big changes in the way we perform. [44:53] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [46:21] Being a curious questioner is so important to solving the big problems. [48:49] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change by Amy Bucher Connect with Amy:  Amy on Twitter Amy’s Website Lirio Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem  Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 135: Using Behavioral Science in Healthcare, Interview with Aline Holzwarth Episode 98: Behavior Change at WW and Beyond, an Interview with Dr. Julie O’Brien Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 167: Hindsight Bias (coming soon!) 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