Real Relationships Real Revenue - Video Edition | Invest in Relationships to Build Your Business and Your Career

Mo asks Katrina Johnson: Tell us the moment when you realized that business development was good and worth doing? Katrina’s big aha moment was when she realized that the skill of business development can be learned. She started in academia and fell into consulting almost by accident, and she enjoyed her consulting work but she felt like her hands were tied. As a subcontractor, Katrina wasn’t able to deliver the work in the way that she thought would be the most powerful for her clients. It wasn’t until Katrina met Mo and learned about the GrowBIG system did she realize what was missing from her work. With a background in neural science, Katrina knew that the research and material were pointing her in the right direction, but in some ways digging into the research was also a curse. Katrina sometimes falls into the habit of using research as a way to hide and avoid putting it into practice. This is where her second big realization came into play, and that she had some underlying issue that was preventing her from executing. She decided to start off small and refine the process from a place of action. She began by going to networking events and trying to follow up with people, most of those efforts didn’t pan out though. She landed a few speaking engagements with small groups of people and used that as a basis to create a relationship with people. She embraced deeper relationships rather than looser connections and in doing so stretched herself outside of her comfort zone. She doesn’t set out to get meetings with important decision makers, but that often flows from naturally deepening relationships with people and being helpful. Katrina learned a lot about the value of targeting over the last year. She realized that when she can work with the management of an organization in some combination of assessment and coaching she’s at her best.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com katrina@kcjconsult.com

Mike Duffy shares his insights into business development and creating relationships that move the world forward. Find out how Mike transformed his career in sales with one fateful and shocking conversation with his sales manager, why Mike’s philosophy on asking questions is what allows him to always add value to his relationships, and why treating your profession the same way that a doctor does theirs is the key to sustained success.   Mo asks Mike Duffy: When was the moment that you decided that business development was important and you needed to get great at it?   Mike’s dad started in sales so he had a front row seat on making sales from the very beginning. He started his sales career by  selling ad space in a travel magazine, and once he got out of college, Mike started selling ladies clothes in California. He took a $500,000 territory and in 18 months turned it into $2.5 million. He won salesman of the year at the age of 24 and ended up having a beer with his sales manager which led to a conversation that changed everything for him. Mike took a deep dive into discovering what really makes a good sales program and he became a student of sales for the rest of his career. Mike teaches lawyers business development now under the assumption that he has to sell the idea to his students. The goal is to help them understand that adding value to a relationship or closing a deal is sales by another name. If we want to live the life we want, we have to get great at growth. Start with the people you are going to call and how you can have a conversation that creates curiosity. That allows you to learn about what they need. Business development is about helping people. Business development habits set you apart when it comes to employment as well. It’s hard to ascertain someone’s technical expertise in a 30-minute interview, but it’s obvious when you care, listen intently, and make the conversation about the other person. You always have to be thinking about the long game. Some prospects may not turn into clients for years, so you need to focus on just moving the ball a little bit further each day. Be transparent, have humility, and be honest. Tell people when they are your #1 target and allow them to shape the relationship in a way that’s valuable for them.   Mo asks Mike Duffy: What is your personal definition of business development? Simply put, business development is helping others, connecting dots, and developing healthy and long lasting relationships. When you understand who your client is, whoever that happens to be in the moment, and add value for them, that's how you get stuff done. Where is the value chain and how are you adding value? It doesn’t end with the person you are talking to right now. Servant leadership is the foundation for Mike’s relationship philosophy. He’s always asking himself internally about how he can be helpful to not only his client, but also his client’s clients. When you ask the right questions, you get some interesting answers. Questions allow you to understand what motivates and drives someone, what concerns them, and what brings them joy. When you’re in a dot-connecting mode, all of that info helps you know who to link up. Helping people when there is no chance of commercial gain is your moment of truth. Connecting dots for people is how you leave a legacy. It’s worth the fight. Choose your attitude every day and build your resilience over time so you can keep pushing forward. If your definition of business development is helping people, getting a no every once in a while is not an issue.   Mo asks Mike Duffy: What is your favorite science, step, or story that you learned from GrowBIG Training or The Snowball System? Mike has a top 4: “Walk Around the Brain”, “Build It Together”, “MITs”, and “Give to Gets”. Mike has writing pads all over his office to help him write down questions that cover all four quadrants of the brain and to make sure he’s prepared for every meeting. When he’s in the meeting Mike always makes sure that the client has their fingerprints on the plan. MITs help Mike move the ball forward every week and Give to Gets allow prospects to get a sample of what it’s like to work with him. The four quadrants of the brain consist of the why, the what, the how, and the who. When Mike is getting ready for a meeting, he develops two or three questions for each quadrant and then he pays direct attention to the language the client uses so he could build those words into the plan. He’s always looking for questions that someone else hasn’t asked so he doesn’t sound like everyone else and can differentiate his firm. You can have a great idea or product, but if you don’t engage the client, there is no guarantee they will want to take you up on your offer. A client’s engagement during a meeting is a good measure of how good a job you are doing.   Mo asks Mike Duffy: Tell me about a business development story that you are particularly proud of. One of Mike's top business development efforts happened after a major company went under and all the audits they were doing went out for RFP. Instead of going into a presentation around pitching for the audit, Mike and his team just acted like they were starting the audit right then. The preparation was in understanding their business inside and out, interviewing their people and learning what it’s important in their world, and building the audit in front of the client. This approach led to winning 87% of their pitches. That story stands out for Mike because it showed him exactly what his team was made of and how they could excel together. He was also able to look back and analyze the reasons for his success, and those bold moves became the basis for much of Mike’s foundation for growth later on. Covid was a godsend to sales people and professional services. This was the perfect opportunity to figure out how to be creative and add value to people. You could outsell your competition by not being the same and providing a bit more. Mike was once asked how he has survived in professional services for so long, and his answer was, “Giving away all the credit and taking all the blame.” That’s Mike’s philosophy in a nutshell. If Mike was forced to admit one of his qualities, it would be being willing to be blunt and honest when the project is going down the wrong path and pulling people back on track.   Mo asks Mike Duffy: If you could record a message to your younger self about how they should think about business development, what would it be? Mike’s message would be to essentially to cold call for a couple months right at the beginning to get used to hearing no. He would also tell himself to feed his brain. Read books and consume information that keeps you moving. Treat your profession like a profession. If you treat your profession the same way that a doctor does and invest in continuing education every year to be a better leader and sales person, you will be successful. Mike invests in programs that he’s heard about on podcasts and consumes books referenced in other books that have made an impact on him. You have to invest in yourself if you want to get better. Mike also builds relationships with people that are learning themselves and is curious enough to find out more about them. He’s always thinking about how he can add value to a conversation or relationship, and thinking about the questions that allow him to dig deeper. When you ask questions, you learn. When you learn, you connect dots, and when you do that, everyone gets better and the effect can snowball. Asking the right questions is instrumental to Mike’s ability to grow.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Mo asks Mike Duffy: If you could record a message to your younger self about how they should think about business development, what would it be? Mike’s message would be to essentially to cold call for a couple months right at the beginning to get used to hearing no. He would also tell himself to feed his brain. Read books and consume information that keeps you moving. Treat your profession like a profession. If you treat your profession the same way that a doctor does and invest in continuing education every year to be a better leader and sales person, you will be successful. Mike invests in programs that he’s heard about on podcasts and consumes books referenced in other books that have made an impact on him. You have to invest in yourself if you want to get better. Mike also builds relationships with people that are learning themselves and is curious enough to find out more about them. He’s always thinking about how he can add value to a conversation or relationship, and thinking about the questions that allow him to dig deeper. When you ask questions, you learn. When you learn, you connect dots, and when you do that, everyone gets better and the effect can snowball. Asking the right questions is instrumental to Mike’s ability to grow.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Mo asks Mike Duffy: Tell me about a business development story that you are particularly proud of. One of Mike's top business development efforts happened after a major company went under and all the audits they were doing went out for RFP. Instead of going into a presentation around pitching for the audit, Mike and his team just acted like they were starting the audit right then. The preparation was in understanding their business inside and out, interviewing their people and learning what it’s important in their world, and building the audit in front of the client. This approach led to winning 87% of their pitches. That story stands out for Mike because it showed him exactly what his team was made of and how they could excel together. He was also able to look back and analyze the reasons for his success, and those bold moves became the basis for much of Mike’s foundation for growth later on. Covid was a godsend to sales people and professional services. This was the perfect opportunity to figure out how to be creative and add value to people. You could outsell your competition by not being the same and providing a bit more. Mike was once asked how he has survived in professional services for so long, and his answer was, “Giving away all the credit and taking all the blame.” That’s Mike’s philosophy in a nutshell. If Mike was forced to admit one of his qualities, it would be being willing to be blunt and honest when the project is going down the wrong path and pulling people back on track.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Mo asks Mike Duffy: What is your favorite science, step, or story that you learned from GrowBIG Training or The Snowball System? Mike has a top 4: “Walk Around the Brain”, “Build It Together”, “MITs”, and “Give to Gets”. Mike has writing pads all over his office to help him write down questions that cover all four quadrants of the brain and to make sure he’s prepared for every meeting. When he’s in the meeting Mike always makes sure that the client has their fingerprints on the plan. MITs help Mike move the ball forward every week and Give to Gets allow prospects to get a sample of what it’s like to work with him. The four quadrants of the brain consist of the why, the what, the how, and the who. When Mike is getting ready for a meeting, he develops two or three questions for each quadrant and then he pays direct attention to the language the client uses so he could build those words into the plan. He’s always looking for questions that someone else hasn’t asked so he doesn’t sound like everyone else and can differentiate his firm. You can have a great idea or product, but if you don’t engage the client, there is no guarantee they will want to take you up on your offer. A client’s engagement during a meeting is a good measure of how good a job you are doing.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Mo asks Mike Duffy: What is your personal definition of business development? Simply put, business development is helping others, connecting dots, and developing healthy and long lasting relationships. When you understand who your client is, whoever that happens to be in the moment, and add value for them, that's how you get stuff done. Where is the value chain and how are you adding value? It doesn’t end with the person you are talking to right now. Servant leadership is the foundation for Mike’s relationship philosophy. He’s always asking himself internally about how he can be helpful to not only his client, but also his client’s clients. When you ask the right questions, you get some interesting answers. Questions allow you to understand what motivates and drives someone, what concerns them, and what brings them joy. When you’re in a dot-connecting mode, all of that info helps you know who to link up. Helping people when there is no chance of commercial gain is your moment of truth. Connecting dots for people is how you leave a legacy. It’s worth the fight. Choose your attitude every day and build your resilience over time so you can keep pushing forward. If your definition of business development is helping people, getting a no every once in a while is not an issue.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Mo asks Mike Duffy: When was the moment that you decided that business development was important and you needed to get great at it?   Mike’s dad started in sales so he had a front row seat on making sales from the very beginning. He started his sales career by  selling ad space in a travel magazine, and once he got out of college, Mike started selling ladies clothes in California. He took a $500,000 territory and in 18 months turned it into $2.5 million. He won salesman of the year at the age of 24 and ended up having a beer with his sales manager which led to a conversation that changed everything for him. Mike took a deep dive into discovering what really makes a good sales program and he became a student of sales for the rest of his career. Mike teaches lawyers business development now under the assumption that he has to sell the idea to his students. The goal is to help them understand that adding value to a relationship or closing a deal is sales by another name. If we want to live the life we want, we have to get great at growth. Start with the people you are going to call and how you can have a conversation that creates curiosity. That allows you to learn about what they need. Business development is about helping people. Business development habits set you apart when it comes to employment as well. It’s hard to ascertain someone’s technical expertise in a 30-minute interview, but it’s obvious when you care, listen intently, and make the conversation about the other person. You always have to be thinking about the long game. Some prospects may not turn into clients for years, so you need to focus on just moving the ball a little bit further each day. Be transparent, have humility, and be honest. Tell people when they are your #1 target and allow them to shape the relationship in a way that’s valuable for them.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com Mike Duffy on LinkedIn

Angela Meyer shares her thoughts and wisdom on business development based on years in the field as a consultant and executive for various companies. Learn why being deliberate about honing your communication skills is one of the most important things you can do to improve your business relationships, why being willing to fail is the key to long-term success, and why the Give to Get is your most valuable business development tool in your toolbelt.   Mo asks Angela Meyer: When was the time that you realized that business development was worth focusing on? Angela’s background is in mechanical engineering and it was during her graduate education while working with her professor where she learned the communication skills to be a great consultant. After beginning her career, Angela got a lot of hands-on experience in the business side of things while working with the CEO of a forensic engineering company. That’s where she learned that in order to be a great consultant, she couldn’t just be running calculations, she had to become good at developing relationships. Angela always thought that she was a good speaker and communicator, but after giving a presentation on a case study that she had worked on and not being able to answer the questions from the audience, she knew she had some room to improve. After seeing a recording of herself during a presentation, Angela knew that if she was going to be good at business development, she was going to have to improve her communication skills. Soft skills turn into hard results. Angela improves incrementally by watching people do great work and trying to learn from them. The other aspect is putting it into practice. You have to try and fail. If you don’t try, you don’t learn. If you don’t ask, you don’t get. From Angela’s perspective, she has multiple failures, but she uses those failures to learn and get better. You can’t rely on your company to train you to become a better, more well-rounded consultant. The presentation training class that Angela attended was the best $150 she spent. If you’re not willing to put yourself out there and try to build a relationship, you might as well stay in the back office. Start with your network that you know or see everyday. Create a list of all the people you’ve worked with over the past six months and see when the last time you connected with them without talking about the project. It’s about getting the next small win and developing the relationship and building your network.   Mo asks Angela Meyer: What is your personal definition of business development? Angela doesn’t use the term business development. In her previous position she was the Vice President of Client Services. She wanted to avoid the term business development because she’s in the relationship business and not selling to people. Unless you’re selling a commodity, no matter how smart you are, without building a relationship and providing value for a client and gaining their trust, you’ll never get the business. Angela got her first job at the age of 13 working at an amusement park. She believes that everyone should work in service when they are younger because it teaches you essential relationship skills. You need a complete skill set and not just technical chops. If you want to improve you have to continue to expand past your current role. Angela loves the business development process because it’s an opportunity to grow herself, the brand reputation of the firm she’s working with, and her knowledge of how she can help clients. It’s okay to not like it or to be afraid because it comes with the territory. If you grow your relationships one client at a time, those people will help you grow your career. Your raving fans will open doors for you to walk through. The way that Angela likes to learn about new areas she needs to be able to sell is setting up a Google alert for it. When Angela has a client that would be interested in a topic she’s reading about, she’ll forward the article to them. As she’s gotten older, Angela makes use of a CRM to remind her of information and things she needs to do. Combining those two methods together works very well. When you’re a highly skilled technician, it can be challenging to see things outside your focus. Don’t feel like you have to do everything alone. You can pair up with other people in your organization and share skills and ideas.   Mo asks Angela Meyer: What is your favorite science, step, or story that you learned from GrowBIG Training or The Snowball System? Angela’s favorite strategy is the Give to Get. Giving somebody value or knowledge they didn’t have before is a great way to start off a relationship. If you continue to show interest in someone personally, and not just professionally, and provide them value that can help them grow their career, they are going to care about you. You have to break someone out of the rut of working with someone else if it’s not you. Building trust and deepening the relationship in the beginning is crucial to starting things out. Angela has seen a number of her former colleagues help clients and prospects by summarizing the science on particular issues like climate change, sustainability, and environmental compliance. There is a big difference between forwarding an article to a client and talking the person through the content. The hardest thing is asking for the business, which is why you should simply ask for the next step. No is just another answer. You have to be able to explain more and give more so that eventually the answer is going to be yes. You can’t assume your client is going to read and consume the content you send them. You have to ask them for the opportunity to explain how it’s helpful and why you sent it to them.   Mo asks Angela Meyer: What is a business development moment that you’re particularly proud of? You have to build the relationship and understand that the work may not come in the first meeting. Angela tells the story of a client that was in-house counsel for a major company that Angela’s firm had done a lot of work for. He set a dinner meeting with this attorney and during the conversation discovered that he felt completely unappreciated by Angela’s firm. You have to be willing to ask questions and get feedback from your clients on how they like working with your firm. Angela turned that relationship around by helping the attorney with a few of his presentations he was giving. By providing value and showing that she cared, he became a valuable client for years. It takes a lot of good experiences to outweigh the effect of one bad experience. Sometimes the negative experience can be something as simple as not picking up the check. In the initial consultation, it’s important to establish the lines and modes of communication. It’s also important to set the expectation around the first bill. Most professional service firms fail around client management. At the end of the engagement always ask for feedback. That time is the perfect opportunity to land more work or a referral to someone else.   Mo asks Angela Meyer: If you could send a message to your prior self, what would you say? No matter what business you’re in, it’s important to not be afraid to try and not be afraid to fail. You need to fail before you can succeed. You’re always selling yourself or your product, so you have to be willing to extend yourself and grow. Hone your communication skills and learn how to bring the energy to a conversation that creates connection with someone. The third thing would be to build your network. Stay in touch with people and keep networking because you never know where your next job is going to come from. Be excited about what you’re doing and what you’re working on. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. For Angela, the energy she brings to her relationships is what makes her memorable. Everybody has some level of impostor syndrome. You don’t need to be cocky to believe in yourself. Humility to admit you don’t know everything is a good place to approach things. The big lesson is to be confident in your ability to try your best, to keep learning, and to get better over time.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com MeyerVorst.com Angela Meyer, PhD, PE on LinkedIn

Mo asks Angela Meyer: If you could send a message to your prior self, what would you say? No matter what business you’re in, it’s important to not be afraid to try and not be afraid to fail. You need to fail before you can succeed. You’re always selling yourself or your product, so you have to be willing to extend yourself and grow. Hone your communication skills and learn how to bring the energy to a conversation that creates connection with someone. The third thing would be to build your network. Stay in touch with people and keep networking because you never know where your next job is going to come from. Be excited about what you’re doing and what you’re working on. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. For Angela, the energy she brings to her relationships is what makes her memorable. Everybody has some level of impostor syndrome. You don’t need to be cocky to believe in yourself. Humility to admit you don’t know everything is a good place to approach things. The big lesson is to be confident in your ability to try your best, to keep learning, and to get better over time.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com MeyerVorst.com Angela Meyer, PhD, PE on LinkedIn

Mo asks Angela Meyer: What is a business development moment that you’re particularly proud of? You have to build the relationship and understand that the work may not come in the first meeting. Angela tells the story of a client that was in-house counsel for a major company that Angela’s firm had done a lot of work for. He set a dinner meeting with this attorney and during the conversation discovered that he felt completely unappreciated by Angela’s firm. You have to be willing to ask questions and get feedback from your clients on how they like working with your firm. Angela turned that relationship around by helping the attorney with a few of his presentations he was giving. By providing value and showing that she cared, he became a valuable client for years. It takes a lot of good experiences to outweigh the effect of one bad experience. Sometimes the negative experience can be something as simple as not picking up the check. In the initial consultation, it’s important to establish the lines and modes of communication. It’s also important to set the expectation around the first bill. Most professional service firms fail around client management. At the end of the engagement always ask for feedback. That time is the perfect opportunity to land more work or a referral to someone else.     Mentioned in this Episode: GrowBIGPlaybook.com MeyerVorst.com Angela Meyer, PhD, PE on LinkedIn