21 Hats Podcast

This week, in our first Dashboard conversation of 2025, Gene Marks talks about why he and other owners are excited about what they think will be a more business-friendly environment this year. But Gene also warns that tariffs and deportations are likely to drive inflation higher and discourage the Federal Reserve from cutting rates, which may not produce the economic growth owners are expecting. Plus: There are big changes coming to retirement-plan rules that owners should know about.

This week, we take another look back at the conversations we had over the past year, highlighting some of our happiest, smartest, and most insightful exchanges. We discuss whose advice is worth taking, whether any business can be remarkable, which businesses should try EOS, why family businesses can be so vexing, what to do when big businesses refuse to pay small businesses, the challenges of pricing services, the backlash against diversity, and finally the remarkably moving story of the moment that propelled one entrepreneur first to get fired and then to launch a remanufacturing business that would hit $60 million in revenue in less than five years.There aren’t many places where you can hear entrepreneurs talk about the real-life problems they are confronting right now, today, as they happen—with no guarantee of a happy ending. But those are the conversations I have every week with Shawn Busse of Kinesis, Paul Downs of Paul Downs Cabinetmakers, Jay Goltz of Artists Frame Service, Mel Gravely of Triversity Construction, Jennifer Kerhin of SB Expos & Events, Liz Picarazzi of Citibin, Jaci Russo of BrandRusso, Sarah Segal of Segal Communications, William Vanderbloemen of Vanderbloemen Search Group, and Laura Zander of Jimmy Beans Wool. They come from a wide range of industries and geographies and experiences, but they all share a willingness to talk about not just what they get right but what they’ve learned from getting stuff wrong.

This week, and next week, we take a look back at the conversations we had over the past year, highlighting some of our happiest, smartest, funniest, and most difficult exchanges. We discuss topics such as whether the Great Resignation prompted business owners to overreact and overpay employees, whether the anxiety of owning a business ever subsides, what young couples should ask themselves before one of them starts a business, why owners find marketing so difficult, how owners can sell a business that just won’t sell, and what keeps entrepreneurs going when the going gets really tough.There aren’t many places where you can hear entrepreneurs talk about the real-life problems they are confronting right now, today, as they happen—with no guarantee of a happy ending. But those are the conversations I have every week with Paul Downs of Paul Downs Cabinetmakers, Shawn Busse of Kinesis, Jay Goltz of Artists Frame Service, Mel Gravely of Triversity Construction, Jennifer Kerhin of SB Expos & Events, Liz Picarazzi of Citibin, Jaci Russo of BrandRusso, Sarah Segal of Segal Communications, William Vanderbloemen of Vanderbloemen Search Group, and Laura Zander of Jimmy Beans Wool. They come from a wide range of industries and geographies and experiences, but they all share a willingness to talk about not just what they get right, but what they’ve learned from getting stuff wrong. If listening to one of these highlights makes you want to hear the full episode, that can be accomplished most easily by going to 21hats.com. There you’ll find a transcript of this episode with links to all of the episodes we sample.

This week, in episode 225, Shawn Busse, Jennifer Kerhin, and Jaci Russo talk about how their businesses did this year and what they’re planning for 2025. Jaci and Shawn have been surprised by a surge of new clients in December, which they say never happens. And Jennifer is excited because she’s confident that in the first quarter she will finally exit the Valley of Death—that transitional period growing companies experience when the people and processes that made them successful stop working (AKA No Man’s Land). Along the way, the owners discuss the relative merits of promoting from within vs. hiring from without, how long it should take to onboard senior-level hires, whether it’s better to err on the side of budgeting for too little growth or too much, how they’re training employees to use artificial intelligence, and what Jennifer can do to stop spending so much time writing and pricing proposals.

This week, Tracy Bech, co-author of the “60 Minute CFO,” talks about how business owners can get more comfortable with their financials. Very few people go into business because they’re good at accounting, but that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to throw up your hands and say, “I’m not a numbers person.” To drive a car, Tracy says, you don’t have to understand how the engine works—but you do have to know how to read a few gauges. Well, the same is true of driving a business, and she’s got a few suggestions.

This week, in episode 224, special guest Karla Trotman explains, step by step, how she has managed to navigate the challenges and opportunities that only a family business can offer. Karla grew up around a manufacturing business, Electro Soft, that her father started, but she never intended to make a career of it. Instead, she found success in corporate America, but over time, she also came to realize the true wealth-building power of owning a business, any business. “It's not a beauty salon,” she says. “It's an asset. It's not a shoe-shine store. It’s an asset.” That realization sent her back to Electro Soft, which thrilled her father. They agreed to work together for three years after which he would retire and she would buy the business. And that’s pretty much what happened—although, as Karla tells us, thanks to some family dynamics that had to be negotiated, the transition didn’t take three years. It took 11 years.

In many cases, Shawn Busse tells us this week, they do, which is why he believes all businesses should be innovating constantly. That’s a lot to ask of small businesses, many of which are just trying to make it to the next payroll, and Shawn acknowledges that there are exceptions. But if, for example, a private equity firm starts buying up your competitors and investing money in them, innovation may be your best hope. How do you get started? Shawn offers some concrete steps to consider if you want to try to think differently about what you do. Step one? Talk to your customers.

This week, in episode 223, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and Sarah Segal talk about why they’re not going to hit their numbers for 2024 and what they’re expecting from 2025, especially regarding tariffs, immigration, and regulation. Shawn says his business has been producing and closing fewer leads. “Clearly,” he says, “we’ve gotta change something.” Jay doesn’t think furniture sales will recover until mortgage rates come down, and he’s bracing for tariffs and deportations that he hopes won’t actually come: “I have to believe,” he tells us, “that somebody in government is going to figure out this isn't a good thing.” Sarah, meanwhile, says her revenues are down, but she’s taking solace from the fact that she is ending the year with a stronger book of business than she ended with last year. Plus: the owners discuss what it means that a judge in Texas has blocked the new overtime law. And they offer guidance to a cafe owner who raised her prices only to get hit with another 25-percent price hike from her main supplier, leaving her to wonder whether she should raise prices again or “eat the loss and pray for a miracle.”

This week, Gene Marks tells us he’s found the next killer app for small business, and it’s not something that’s theoretical and might be ready sometime next year. It’s ready now, and it’s Google’s NotebookLM. Gene had reviewed it previously and found it wanting but took another look at the latest version and found it could do things like streamline a job search and spot anomalies in his financials. But Gene also offers a caveat for rolling out any AI app or even a CRM: if you don’t configure it right, you can run into some very big problems. Plus: he also discusses the latest in password technology.

This week, in episode 222, we bring you another Entrepreneurial Fish Bowl with Chris Hutchinson. These Fish Bowls are our virtual brainstorming sessions where we offer business owners the opportunity to pose a challenge they’re facing to a group of owners and entrepreneurs from the 21 Hats community. This time, our volunteers are Alvin Elbert, founder of A.R.E. Manufacturing, and his daughter Megan Perona, who explain that their company had its best year ever in 2022 but has seen business fall off since then. For 40 years, A.R.E. grew slowly but steadily on word of mouth. More recently, however, the Elbert family has concluded that it’s time to do some real marketing. Like a lot of owners, though, they’re a little overwhelmed by the options, unsure where to begin, and wary of wasting money. They also happen to be going through a family ownership transition. The 21 Hats brainstormers begin by asking a lot of questions, including whether the owners have invested in search engine optimization, whether they’ve gone back to some of the customers they lost to China, and whether they’ve considered hiring a marketing agency.