21 Hats Podcast

This week, Kurt Wilkin discusses what he’s learned about selling businesses and how he’s thinking about what he might do next. An entrepreneur, an investor, a mentor, and a former business owner who recently sold a recruiting firm, Wilkin tells us why his acquisition of the firm didn't work out the way he hoped and how he managed to turn it around and sell it. Part of the problem, Kurt says, was that he jumped back into the game too quickly after selling his previous business. It’s a mistake he’s not going to repeat this time.

This week, in episode 264, Mel Gravely brings closure to a story he’s been sharing in pieces over the past year. You may recall that he bought a facilities maintenance company a couple years ago that he was convinced he could scale—only to discover that it was hemorrhaging money. Mel dug in, diagnosed the problem, fixed it, bought out his partners, turned the company profitable—and then decided to shut it down. Why close a business that’s making money? Mel explains the surprising answer, along with three lessons he says he learned. He also joins Jay Goltz in a candid discussion of the painful flipside of hiring: When, and how, does it make sense to lay off employees? As Jay points out, it’s far easier to find advice about adding people than about letting them go, even though it’s a calculation many owners are facing today. Plus: A would-be entrepreneur preparing to launch a business with two friends admits he’s feeling scared. He wants to know whether that fear ever goes away. Mel and Jay think he’s asking the wrong question.

Cameron Madill, an entrepreneur and former CEO of Pixelspoke, shares insights from his research on married entrepreneurial couples through the Happy Couples Project. He discusses the fine line between healthy and unhealthy passion for work, revealing its significant impact on relationships. Cameron also highlights common conflicts couples face, like work-home boundaries and financial pressures, while offering strategies to balance business and marriage. Listeners will find practical advice and surprising findings from his research, making this a valuable conversation for entrepreneurial couples.

This week, in episode 263, we bring you another 21 Hats Brainstorm. Elan Daniel, who started a small-batch hummus business inspired by a memorable experience in Israel, is trying to figure out his best path to long-term viability. So far, he’s been selling at farmers markets and direct to consumers, making all of the hummus and all of the deliveries himself. Since February, his sales have been growing between 5 and 10 percent a week, but his growth is constrained by his refusal to use preservatives, which adds flavor but limits the product’s shelf life. So how should he proceed: Should he sell to speciality markets and restaurants? Should he try to sell to Whole Foods? Should he open his own hummus restaurant, or hummusiya? Should he try to introduce his hummus to the uninitiated or should he focus on connoisseurs? To help Elan think through his options, we convened a panel of 21 Hats Brainstormers and recorded this podcast episode. It’s brought to you by New Bridge Studios, which helps companies, creators, and causes connect their story to the bottom line. And by the way, if you have a challenge you’d like to put before a panel of business owners in our next Brainstorm, shoot me an email: loren@21hats.com.

This week, Eric Stites, founder and CEO of Franchise Business Review, talks about the state of the franchising world. How much money do you need to buy a franchise? How much can you make? What are the hot categories? What are the most common mistakes? We also talk about life on the other side: What makes a business a good candidate to become a franchisor? And is it possible to avoid the tension -- and litigation -- that so often arises between franchisees and franchisors? Plus: If you buy a franchise, are you an entrepreneur? Or are you just buying a job?

This week, Jaci Russo and Sarah Segal wrestle with a question that haunts many entrepreneurs: How do you bring your kids into the business—whether for a summer or for good—without messing up the business (or the kids)? For years, Jaci and her husband Michael quietly hoped their son Jackson might one day take over their marketing agency. Their unusual strategy? Never mention it to him—at least not until he’d demonstrated interest and not until he’d proven himself somewhere else. The approach seems to have worked: Jackson has joined BrandRusso, and Jaci has told him he’ll take over in four years. Which prompted Sarah to ask Jaci an obvious question, “What happens if he takes over, and he does a bad job?” As it happens, Jaci and Michael have thought about that, too. Plus: Jaci and Sarah discuss the merits of the new tech trend, especially hot in San Francisco, where more and more people are wearing AI-powered devices that can stealthily transcribe every conversation they have.

This week, Shawn Busse, founder of Kinesis, talks about finding ways to market authentically when so many of the standard tools of marketing are in flux. In Shawn’s case, that means holding an annual event where business owners -- and potential clients -- have the opportunity to come together to learn and interact in person. Of course, throwing such an event costs money. It’s a lot of work. And it’s not always easy to strike the right balance between education and promotion, but Shawn believes more businesses should try it.

A few months ago, John Abrams—author of From Founder to Future—joined us to talk about succession strategies and the different ways business owners can share ownership with employees. For his own business, John chose one of the more radical options: he turned his construction firm into a worker cooperative. Perhaps surprisingly, the more he described the co-op model, the more intrigued Jay Goltz became—although, predictably, Jay did retain a degree of skepticism. So we asked John to come back on the podcast to help Jay dig a little deeper: Are co-ops really all about democracy? Does someone on the loading dock get the same vote as the CEO? How do profits get split in the co-op model? How do losses get absorbed? How are loans secured without burdening frontline workers with personal guarantees? And perhaps most important: What can go wrong? In the end, I think surprising even himself, Jay failed to identify any real dealbreakers.Show Notes:Get a free trial of the Morning Report.Learn more about the Cooperative Fund of the Northeast.This is the podcast episode where Jay Goltz talks about how to do a We-SOP.

This week, Gene Marks makes a surprising claim: his business is “unsellable.” Never mind that it’s profitable. Never mind that it gave him the freedom to live the life he wanted and that it has left him and his wife financially secure for retirement. According to Gene, the business can’t be sold because it’s too dependent on him and because it has no IP, no exclusivity, and no moat. But is he right? Aren’t those the same challenges faced, for example, by countless HVAC and plumbing companies that private equity firms buy every day? Couldn’t Gene make his business sellable if he wanted to? What do you think? Is Gene leaving money on the table? Or has he just chosen the path that’s right for him and for his family?

Join Jenelle Etzel, a former punk rocker turned CEO of Living Room Realty, and Shawn Busse, CEO of Kinesis, as they explore the unusual paths to entrepreneurship. Jenelle shares her journey from living in a van to leading a successful real estate agency, emphasizing the importance of community and storytelling in building a brand. They discuss how creative backgrounds can enhance business strategies and tackle current real estate challenges. This engaging conversation is a tribute to the power of unconventional experiences in driving successful enterprises.