Now and Men

What is 'discomfort', and how can we engage effectively with men when they display it in conversations about masculinity, gender equality and violence? How can connecting with discomfort help to change harmful attitudes and behaviours? What are the risks and challenges in embracing discomfort, and how can they be dealt with? These issues are at the core of our discussion with Dr Nate Eisenstadt, drawing on his extensive experience of facilitating and researching bystander intervention and domestic violence perpetrator programmes in the UK.We also explore the training room as a microcosm of wider society, and how discomfort and fear are often weaponised by public figures to promote damaging, polarising responses to complex real-world problems. Drawing on his earlier research on contemporary anarchist practices, Nate reflects on the challenges and potential of community-based transformative (as opposed to punitive) approaches to ending gender-based violence.Nate is a Senior Research Associate at the University of Bristol in the UK, in their Medical School’s Domestic Violence and Health Group, and the Co-Director of Kindling Interventions, which delivers bystander leadership programmes for violence prevention, equality and diversity.Find out more about Nate’s research: https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/en/persons/nathan-eisenstadtLinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathan-eisenstadt/Kindling Interventions: https://kindling-interventions.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/KindlingIntervLinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/kindling-interventions/We cover the following topics:The 'bystander leadership' training that Nate is delivering (01:31-05:16)Why he and Dr Rachel Fenton set up Kindling Interventions (05:16-09:03)Advantages and challenges with the bystander intervention approach (09:03-16:27)Different ways in which 'discomfort' can surface in this work (16:27-22:39)How to respond to discomfort when engaging with men and boys (22:39-30:57)The role of skilled facilitation (30:57-33:39)Facilitators’ own experiences of discomfort (33:39-37:24)How discomfort links to the backlash against feminism in wider society (37:24-42:46)Vital ingredients for impactful work with men who've perpetrated abuse (42:46-48:55)How this research links with Nate’s work on anarchist and anti-oppressive organising (48:55-52:06)Key tenets of anarchism and links with community accountability (52:06-53:58)Conclusion (53:58-59:54): Overlaps with Jens van Tricht's episode; the value of uncomfortable conversations; shifts in work with men who've used violence; the resonance of Nate's work with wider political polarisation; and anarchism and mutual aid.Further reading:The Intervention Initiative: https://law.exeter.ac.uk/research/interventioninitiative/Rachel Fenton, Helen Mott et al. (2016) A review of evidence for bystander intervention to prevent sexual and domestic violence in universities (Public Health England): https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a802686ed915d74e622cc3b/Evidence_review_bystander_intervention_to_prevent_sexual_and_domestic_violence_in_universities_11April2016.pdfKelly Shaver (1970) Defensive attribution theory: https://doi.org/10.1037/h0028777Jonas Kaplan et al. (2016) Neural correlates of maintaining one's political beliefs in the face of counterevidence: https://doi.org/10.1038/srep39589Marshall B Rosenberg - Nonviolent communication: https://nonviolentcommunication.com

Now and Men is taking a break until February 2024, so in the meantime, to coincide with Veganuary and a new campaign called 'Vegan and Thriving' from the UK Vegan Society, we revisit episode 29 from June 2023, where we discussed masculinity and veganism with Dr Kadri Aavik. Between 2016 and 2020, the number of vegans in Europe has doubled from 1.3 million to 2.6 million. More and more people are questioning the consumption of meat and dairy for ethical, environmental and health reasons. The majority are women, but a significant number of men are vegans, too – and over 30% of Europeans say they are consciously eating less meat. In this episode, we explore men’s experiences and motivations for becoming vegan and how they deal with masculine expectations about food. Veganism and vegetarianism are sometimes portrayed as ‘unmanly’ and effeminate, whilst meat-eating is often associated with strength and virility. The meat and dairy industries are also major contributors to greenhouse gas emissions – might the climate crisis and increasing recognition of the harms caused by these industries be leading to changes in the behaviours of some men?Dr Kadri Aavik is an Associate Professor of Gender Studies at Tallinn University, Estonia. Kadri has written a book about her research in Estonia and Finland, ‘Contesting Anthropocentric Masculinities through Veganism: Lived Experiences of Vegan Men’ (Palgrave Macmillan, 2023). Research for the book was conducted as part of the project ‘Climate Sustainability in the Kitchen: Everyday Food Cultures in Transition’ (University of Helsinki, 2018-2022), funded by the Kone Foundation: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/projects/climate-sustainability-kitchen   Buy Kadri’s book: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-19507-5Find out more about her research: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kadri-Aavik and https://www.etis.ee/CV/Kadri_Aavik/engTopics covered:Why food and eating are gendered (02:38-05:02)How to define veganism (05:02-06:49)Kadri’s research with vegan men in Estonia and Finland (06:49-09:41)Men’s motivations for becoming vegan (09:41-11:20)Kadri’s personal relationship with veganism (11:20-13:33)The connections between meat-eating and masculinity (13:33-15:02)Gendered differences in diets (15:02-17:14)Men’s engagement in household cooking (17:14-21:32)Navigating family relationships as a vegan (21:32-23:32)The influence of patriarchy on human relations with other animals (23:32-27:42)What this has to do with climate change and ‘Anthropocentric masculinities’ (27:42-32:10)Barriers to veganism for men (32:10-37:33)The different contexts of veganism in Estonia and Finland (37:33-41:39)The extent to which veganism is a ‘privileged’ phenomenon (41:39-44:35)Achieving institutional as well as individual change (44:35-48:48)Veganism as a form of activism, not just a ‘lifestyle choice’ (48:48-50:45)Impacts of veganism on men’s relationships (50:45-54:12)More info: Veganuary (where people try being vegan throughout January) - https://veganuary.comThe UK Vegan Society - https://www.vegansociety.comTheir 'Vegan and Thriving' campaign - https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/campaigns/vegan-thrivingRoutledge Handbook on Men, Masculinities and Organizations - https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/9781003193579/routledge-handbook-men-masculinities-organizations-jeff-hearn-kadri-aavik-david-collinson-anika-thymCarol Adams: The Sexual Politics of Meat - https://caroljadams.com/spom-the-book'Suella Braverman blames 'Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati' for disruptive protests' (Guardian, 18th Oct 2022) - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/oct/18/suella-braverman-blames-guardian-reading-tofu-eating-wokerati-for-disruptive-protests-video

Blake Morrison’s award-winning, bestselling memoir ‘And When Did You Last See Your Father?’ is an honest and intimate portrait of family life, father-son relations, and the impact of bereavement. Since it came out in 1993, Blake has continued to revisit his family’s past through ‘Things My Mother Never Told Me’ (2002), and is ‘still working things out’ in his poignant recent book ‘Two Sisters’, about his sister Gill and half-sister Josie, published earlier this year.In this episode, Blake reads extracts from ‘Two Sisters’ and ‘And When Did You Last See Your Father?’, and we explore with him key themes in his work, including: sibling relationships; family secrets; men controlling women; male violence; transitions in father-son relations; youthful rebellion, and becoming a man. We also discuss issues around men, emotion and grief, the genres of ‘sib-lit’ and ‘dad-lit’, and the impact of feminism on Blake’s own development and writing. As well as a memoirist, Blake is a poet, novelist, and journalist. His published work includes the poetry collections ‘Dark Glasses’, ‘The Ballad of the Yorkshire Ripper’ and ‘Shingle Street’, and most recently, ‘Skin and Blister’, and four novels, including ‘The Last Weekend’ and ‘The Executor’. He’s a regular literary critic for the Guardian newspaper and the London Review of Books, and is Professor Emeritus of creative and life writing at Goldsmiths University. Born in Yorkshire, he has lived in South London for many years. Find out more about Blake: https://blakemorrison.netMore info about ‘Two Sisters’: https://www.boroughpress.co.uk/products/two-sisters-blake-morrison-9780008510527/‘Things My Mother Never Told Me’ https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/357294/things-my-mother-never-told-me-by-morrison-blake/9780099440727‘And When Did You Last See Your Father?’: https://granta.com/products/and-when-did-you-last-see-your-father/Blake’s ‘Top 10 books about fathers and sons’: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/nov/02/top-10-books-about-fathers-and-sons-blake-morrison-and-when-did-you-last-see-your-fatherWe cover the following in this episode:Reading from 'Two Sisters' (01:24-06:42)Blake’s motivations for writing the book (06:42-08:14)Why brothers don’t write about sisters (08:14-10:12)Examples of ‘sib-lit’ (10:12-11:47)The impact of alcoholism on Gill (11:47-13:46)Alcoholism and gender (13:46-16:04)Male violence and the efforts of adults to hide it (16:04-19:18)The significance of women in Blake’s life (19:18-21:02)The supposed stability of 1950s/60s family life (21:02-22:22)Reading from ‘And When Did you Last See Your Father?' (22:22-26:09)Why the book was so successful (26:09-27:47)The extent to which Blake’s portrayal of fatherhood was culturally specific (27:47-30:21)‘Dad-lit’ and other authors to read on father-son relations (30:21-32:28)Shifts in Blake’s relationship with his dad and how he saw him (32:28-34:41)Blake’s capacity for writing honestly and sensitively about emotion (34:41-37:21)Where Blake himself fits into his memoirs (37:21-39:39)Gender and dealing with grief (39:39-41:25)Why Blake kept his Dad's pacemaker (41:25-43:46)What led him to write ‘Things My Mother Never Told Me’ (43:46-46:43)The impact feminism had on Blake and his writing (46:43-50:32)The influence that poetry and literature can have on young men (50:32-55:03)

How can men contribute to gender equality and justice in the world? What can they learn from feminist approaches? How can they break free from the limiting expectations of what a 'real' man should be, and become more fully human? In this episode, we talk to Jens van Tricht, the author of an inspiring book 'Why Feminism is Good for Men', now translated from the original Dutch into English by Liz Waters - and launched with this episode of Now and Men! The book offers an accessible and hopeful perspective on men and masculinities, connecting the personal and the societal, the abstract and the concrete, the theoretical and the practical, the serious and the playful. Jens describes himself as an 'idealist, anarchist, and feminist'. In our discussion, we explore Jens's own journey and how these influences have played out: from childhood questions about gender norms, to teenage angst and punk music, the Amsterdam squatter and anarchist movements - and finding direction through Women's Studies, personal growth and feminist practice. Drawing on these experiences, ten years ago Jens founded Emancipator, an organisation which promotes gender equality and social justice by engaging with men and boys about issues including work and care, violence and safety, sexuality and sexual diversity. Jens is also a board member of the MenEngage Global Alliance.You can find out more about Jens’s work at https://www.jensvantricht.nl and Emancipator at https://www.emancipator.nl/en/emancipator-2/'Why Feminism is Good for Men' can be purchased in English on Amazon, and is also available in Arabic, Dutch, German and Korean: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Feminism-Good-Jens-Tricht-ebook/dp/B0C579ZY14/ref=sr_1_3Follow Jens on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jensvantricht LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensvantricht/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jens.vantricht.7We cover the following topics in this episode:What led Jens to write the book and why feminism is good for men (01:04-05:49)Jens's experiences as a child and how these influenced his thinking about gender (05:49-13:31)His 'journey' into feminism and formative experiences as a teenager, e.g. punk music and the Dutch squatter movement (13:31-20:20)Being a man in Women's Studies (20:20-25:47)What 'men’s liberation'/'emancipation' means (25:47-31:38)Seeing oneself as a human being rather than a man (31:38-35:06)Holding oneself to account as a man (35:06-39:18)Emancipator's approach to working with men (39:18-42:34)Why the process is so important (42:34-48:42)Why relationships, sexuality and intimacy are such vulnerable and insecure domains for men (48:42-51:10)The context of The Netherlands and its upcoming election in debates about masculinity and gender equality (51:10-55:25)Wrapping up (55:25-59:58)

Richard Bliss, an artist and tailor, explores masculinity through the process of making shirts. He discusses societal pressures on men, engages in conversations about masculinity, and challenges gender norms through his textile art. Bliss also brings working-class histories to life in museums and highlights the needs of older gay men in care homes.

Angela Saini, author of 'The Patriarchs: How Men Came to Rule', discusses the origins and embedded nature of patriarchy in societies. Topics include exploring gender diversity in different societies, the impact of colonization on matrilineal societies, advancements in archaeological and genetic evidence, and the assumptions and connections of patriarchy worldwide.

The Spanish women’s football team have shaken the world – first with their incredible World Cup success, then by bringing into question the sexist culture of soccer, stating #SeAcabó ('It's Over') and striking en masse in protest about their treatment by the football authorities. This was after the President of the Spanish Football Federation, Luis Rubiales, was accused of kissing the striker Jenni Hermoso without her consent on live TV during the final's medal presentation ceremony. In this special extra episode, we speak to prominent Spanish pro-feminist activist Hilario Sáez Méndez about how men have responded to the #SeAcabó movement, and how we can understand these events in the context of wider debates about gender equality, masculinity and men's violence against women in football and Spanish society. Hilario highlights the emergence of a stronger feminist consciousness in recent years, including: The #Cuéntalo ('tell it') movement after the horrific 2016 La Manada ('wolf pack') rape case in Pamplona: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/23/wolf-pack-case-spain-feminism-far-right-voxThe women’s strike in 2018 denouncing sexual discrimination, domestic violence and the gender pay gap: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/spanish-women-give-up-work-for-a-day-in-first-feminist-strikeThe 'solo sí es sí' ('only yes means yes') law passed in 2022: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/25/spain-only-yes-means-yes-sexual-consent-bill-expected-to-become-lawHe questions whether the statement by Cadiz's men’s football team - "we are all Jenni" - should in fact be "we are all Rubiales", recognising men's responsibility to address our own sexist behaviour, and that of other men: https://apnews.com/article/sevilla-hermoso-rubiales-kiss-tshirts-73b711b6412c729ec1a320f0f21d60f9Hilario is a sociologist, the President of the Fundación Iniciativa Social (Social Initiative Foundation), and an active member of Red de Hombres por la Igualdad (Men's Network for Equality) and MenEngage Iberia.Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hilariosaezLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilario-sáez-12801928/Read the statement from MenEngage Iberia, expressing their revulsion at the behaviour of Luis Rubiales: https://menengage.org/stories/the-actions-of-the-spanish-football-president-are-unworthy-of-his-position-and-of-the-institution-and-the-sport-he-represents/MenEngage Iberia: https://twitter.com/MenEngageIberiaMenEngage Alliance: https://menengage.orgFundación Iniciativa Social: https://fundacioniniciativasocial.es - @fis_tweetRed de Hombres por la Igualdad: https://redhombresigualdad.orgBook by Sandy, Stephen et al., 'Men's Activism to End Violence Against Women Voices from Spain, Sweden and the UK' (2021): https://policy.bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/mens-activism-to-end-violence-against-womenFootage from Rubiales's infamous speech: https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2023/aug/25/luis-rubiales-refuses-to-resign-spanish-fa-president-videoHilario played a leading role in the men's march in Sevilla against violence against women, which we covered in episode 6: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/seville-marchListeners may also be interested in episode 16 with Dr Stacey Pope on building gender equality in football, which was recorded in the run-up to Euro 2022, the Women’s European Championships: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/stacey-popeAnd episode 22 with Dan Guinness, which discusses masculine pressures within professional sport: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/beyond-equalityWe cover the following topics in this episode: The impact of the women’s team’s success on Spanish society (01:15 – 03:49)The actions of Luis Rubiales and why this led to major protests (03:49 – 07:48)How Rubiales’s conduct fits into a wider pattern by the Spanish football authorities (07:48 – 11:43)What these events in football tell us about masculinity, gender relations and the political context in Spain (11:43 – 15:01)Differences in women’s football, e.g. less homophobia (15:01 – 16:45)Why the kiss is part of a much bigger systemic problem (16:45 – 19:52)Why the #SeAcabó movement is different to #MeToo (19:52 – 26:37)How different groups of men have responded to #SeAcabó (26:37 – 30:57)How MenEngage Iberia have been responding to what has happened (30:57 – 34:27)What Rubiales’s speech shows us about men’s complicity (34:27 – 38:13)The significance of recent shifts in gender relations, such as Spain’s ‘only yes means yes law’ (38:13 – 43:36)How hopeful Hilario feels about possibilities for change (43:36 – 47:18)

‘The Manosphere’ is a cluster of online groups who oppose feminism and believe that men are the true victims of gender inequality. There has long been backlash towards feminism, but its influence has grown in recent years, facilitated by the internet. Such groups include Men’s Rights and Father’s Rights Activists, Pick Up Artists (who instruct men on how to manipulate women for sex), and Men Going their Own Way (who avoid all relations with women). Incels, or ‘Involuntary Celibates’, have drawn most attention, not least because of a number of mass killings being ascribed to individuals associated with them. So what are Incel communities, why are they a cause of concern, and how should we respond to them? These are some of the issues we explore with expert Dr Lisa Sugiura.Lisa is a Reader in Cybercrime and Gender in the School of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Portsmouth in the UK. She is the Chair of Hampshire Constabulary's Force Strategic Independent Advisory Group.In 2021 she wrote a book called ‘The Incel Rebellion: The Rise of the Manosphere and the Virtual War Against Women’. It is available to buy or read open access as an e-book here: https://www.emerald.com/insight/publication/doi/10.1108/9781839822544Find out more about Lisa’s work: https://www.port.ac.uk/about-us/structure-and-governance/our-people/our-staff/lisa-sugiuraFollow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lisa_sugiuraLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-sugiura-a5214431/Lisa has been working with Tooled Up to develop resources for parents and educators: https://www.tooledupeducation.comShe is a Fellow of the Institute for Research on Male Supremacism: https://theirms.orgRead their recommendations for media reporting on Incels: https://theirms.org/forjournalistsIn this episode we also discuss an article by Alessia Tranchese and Lisa on ‘How Incels and mainstream pornography speak the same extreme language of misogyny’: https://doi.org/10.1177/1077801221996453And the book by Laura Bates, ‘Men Who Hate Women’: https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/Men-Who-Hate-Women/Laura-Bates/9781398504653Lisa also mentioned the work of Prof Rachel Pain on 'everyday terrorism': https://doi.org/10.1177/0309132513512231We cover the following topics in this episode:What the Manosphere is and why we should be concerned about it (01:00 - 05:21)The ideas and terminology used by Incels (05:21 - 08:28)How women are viewed within Incel communities (08:28 - 09:58)What led Lisa to carry out research in this area (09:58 - 14:02)How she went about conducting her research (14:02 - 15:59)Interviewing men in the Incel community (15:59 - 21:01)The impact of doing this work on her wellbeing (21:01 - 23:39)What happens when men leave Incel communities (23:39 - 27:01)The harms of the Manosphere (27:01 - 29:25)The threats online misogyny poses to democracy (29:25 - 31:06)The variety of men involved in Incel communities (31:06 - 33:28)The damage Incel communities do to men themselves (33:28 - 37:31)Official responses to the Manosphere and what needs to change (37:31 - 40:26)The responsibilities of social media companies (40:26 - 42:52)Possibilities for deradicalising or preventing men from becoming involved in the first place (42:52 - 45:21)Overlaps in discourses used by Incels and those in pornography (45:21 - 49:07)How to avoid giving these groups a bigger platform (49:07 - 53:27)

Prof Michael Flood, an expert in engaging men and boys, discusses the opportunities and challenges in this field. He explores topics such as preventing violence and abuse, building gender equality, promoting fatherhood, and addressing online misogyny. He also examines the link between pornography and violence and provides advice for parents on addressing these issues with their children.

Prof Sanjay Srivastava and Dr Romit Chowdhury discuss masculinity and urban life in India and beyond, exploring topics such as nationalism, consumerism, violence against women, mobility, and relations between men. They delve into their research on gender, cities, transport, and mobility, focusing on footpath pornography, men's harassment of women, working-class men's struggle for respectable breadwinner masculinity, joy riding, and transport dynamics in India.