Divergent Conversations

As a gifted, BIPOC individual, it can be uniquely challenging to navigate day-to-day experiences and find meaningful connections, especially prior to the discovery of giftedness.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, along with Sheldon Gay, an entrepreneur, podcast host, and the Vice-Chair of the neurodivergent-affirming non-profit, Umbrella US, discuss his unique perspective on being seen beneath our social masks, the societal impact of intellectual identity as a BIPOC human, and his personal self-discovery journey of giftedness.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Discover the complexities and societal pressures of intellectual identity and how they shape interactions and self-perception, as well as the struggle to find genuine connections while managing unique cognitive abilities.Gain a deeper understanding of the unique challenges faced by gifted individuals, especially within marginalized communities. Learn about the burden of expectations, code-switching as a gifted black man, and the journey of self-acceptance.Learn about Sheldon Gay's perspective on navigating biases in professional spaces, the importance of authenticity, and the impact of self-trust and empathy in both personal and professional settings.As you explore the depths of your own identity and capabilities, remember the importance of self-trust and creating spaces where you can be your authentic self. Reflect on how societal expectations may have influenced your journey and seek communities that celebrate your unique experiences and perspectives.More about Sheldon:Sheldon Gay is an entrepreneur with a background in engineering and creating memorable customer experiences. He's worked in various fields, including healthcare, nonprofits, and education-technology. In addition to growing multiple businesses, he is currently the Vice-Chair of the neurodivergent-affirming non-profit, Umbrella US. As a Black man who discovered later in life that he’s neurodivergent, he sees the world from a different angle than most. Due to his unique perspective, he knows all too well how it feels to be “the only one” in a room. After intense self-discovery work in his early 40s, he found answers to life-long questions and received freedom from burdens he'd carried since he was a child. Now, he uses his experiences to help others embrace their true selves and release their burdens as well. Sheldon helps his audiences become curious about their minds, combat loneliness through community, and experience peace and joy through authenticity.Website: sheldongayisbugn.comSocial Media: @imustbebugn and @imustbebugn.bsky.social————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors: ✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

If you are the parent of a gifted or twice-exceptional (2e) child, you know the unique challenges and pressures these children face.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, and Dr. Danika Maddocks, a gifted/2e parent coach and owner of The Gifted Learning Lab, discuss the complexities of raising and supporting gifted and 2e kids, including the internal and external pressures, the impact of growth vs. fixed mindsets, and the innovative strategies that can support these exceptional children.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain insights into the internal and external pressures that gifted and 2e children face, and how these can lead to intense emotional and psychological distress despite their apparent successes.Explore the influence and impact of a growth mindset vs. a fixed mindset, especially how understanding and fostering the right mindset aids in developing resilience and coping mechanisms for gifted children.Learn practical, neurodiversity-affirming strategies to support a gifted or 2e child's emotional and cognitive development, including effective validation techniques and the importance of environmental fit.As you consider the best ways to support and nurture the gifted children in your life, remember to look beyond labels and standards. Focus on creating environments where their unique abilities can thrive, allowing them to grow and develop a healthy sense of self.More about Danika:Dr. Danika Maddocks is a gifted/2e parent coach and owner of The Gifted Learning Lab. She helps parents let go of standard parenting pressures and build a unique family life that actually works for their kid and themselves. She has supported gifted and twice-exceptional kids, teens, and their families for over 15 years as a teacher, therapist, school consultant, assessment provider, and coach. Her work is also informed by her personal experiences growing up gifted, being a late-identified autistic adult, and raising a young gifted/2e kid.Danika has a free email mini-course called Reduce Power Struggles with Your Gifted/2e Kid. All parents want to feel like they're on the same team as their kid or teen, but gifted/2e parents often feel stuck in negotiations and power struggles, no matter what parenting advice they try. In this free, 5-day mini-course, parents will learn practical strategies to prevent, reduce, and defuse power struggles with their gifted/2e kid or teen. Access the free course: giftedlearninglab.com/powerWebsite: giftedlearninglab.comInstagram: instagram.com/giftedlearninglabFacebook: facebook.com/giftedlearninglab————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsor: ✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

In a captivating discussion, Katy Higgins Lee, a multiply neurodivergent therapist and neurodiversity advocate, dives into the complex world of giftedness. She unravels the trauma often faced by those labeled as gifted, addressing societal misconceptions and high expectations. The conversation highlights 'overexcitabilities' and offers practical strategies for twice-exceptional individuals. Katy also emphasizes the importance of supportive communities and safe spaces for navigating the emotional landscape of intellectual and sensory needs, promoting self-acceptance and validation.

Dr. Matthew Zakreski, a clinical psychologist specializing in neurodivergent individuals, joins to discuss the unique traits of giftedness. The conversation delves into the intense emotional experiences called overexcitabilities and the impact of impostor syndrome on self-acceptance. They explore executive dysfunction, reframing challenges, and practical strategies for gifted individuals facing overwhelming tasks. Personal stories highlight the importance of authenticity in fostering connections, making this discussion a valuable resource for understanding divergent minds.

Emily Kircher-Morris, a Licensed Professional Counselor and host of The Neurodiversity Podcast, joins Patrick Casale and Dr. Neff to delve deep into the multifaceted concept of giftedness. They explore how it intersects with neurodivergence, discussing the limitations of traditional IQ measures. The trio highlights the emotional struggles gifted individuals face, including perfectionism and social connections, while advocating for personalized educational approaches. They also illuminate the concept of overexcitability, emphasizing the unique sensitivities that shape the gifted experience.

Balancing vulnerability and authenticity can be challenging, but also deeply rewarding. In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Samuel Silverman, a psychiatrist and stand-up comedian diagnosed with OCD and ADHD, about the intersection of comedy, mental health, and the digital age.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain insights into how the blend of personal vulnerability and social critique in comedy helps individuals connect with their audience and understand their own mental health experiences more deeply.Hear Samuel Silverman's unique perspective on balancing a career in psychiatry with a presence on comedy stages and in social media, including the ethical boundaries he maintains while advocating for mental health awareness.Discover practical advice on recognizing and managing OCD, understanding its pervasive nature of doubt, and learning how self-expression can be a cathartic way to handle internal struggles.As you reflect on this conversation, consider how your own experiences and challenges might be transformed through creative expression and connection. Remember that sharing your journey, setting healthy boundaries, and advocating for understanding can be powerful tools in the mental health landscape.Note from Samuel:I was born and raised in Baltimore, MD, in a progressive Jewish family. I went to the same small progressive school that my mother and aunt attended — my grandmother actually taught there while the two of them were in school, and my mother later taught there while my brother and I attended.When I was 18, I traveled halfway across the country to attend Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota. It was there that I met my wife, Kelley Stevens, better known as “The Private Practice Pro.”I attended medical school at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine and completed my psychiatry residency training at Loma Linda University. As I was completing my residency, I began to explore the world of stand-up comedy, and started performing throughout Southern California before traveling to other parts of the country to tell jokes, when I’m not too busy seeing patients.I myself have diagnoses of both OCD and ADHD. More than anything, OCD has colored so much of my experience. Because of this, my symptoms and struggles with this condition provide much of the material for my comedy.Instagram: @samsilvermancomedy————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors:✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Neurodivergent individuals often find mental health topics like OCD, autism, and ADHD intertwined in ways that can complicate their personal narratives and self-identity.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss with Brittany Goff, an LCSW, the Clinical Director at Zen Psychological Center, and an instructor at the Cognitive Behavioral Institute, about the critical intersections of OCD, autism, and ADHD, their impact on well-being, and the use of I-CBT in the treatment of OCD for neurodivergent individuals.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Understand how sensory discrepancies can lead to the development of obsessive stories, particularly for autistic individuals, and how inference-based cognitive-behavioral therapy (I-CBT) offers a tailored approach to counteract these doubts.Discover the unique challenges and strategies for neurodivergent individuals, including those with undiagnosed autism or ADHD, in managing OCD symptoms and building self-trust through a neuro-affirmative lens.Learn about the intersection of personal experiences, vulnerable self-themes, and logical reasoning with OCD, and how neurodivergent traits such as hyperempathy and rejection sensitivity influence the creation of obsessive narratives.As you reflect on this episode, consider how your sensory experiences and neurodivergent traits affect your perception of reality and self-trust, as well as how I-CBT can offer tools and strategies to foster a stronger sense of certainty and understanding in your daily life.DISCLAIMER: I-CBT is currently only evidence-based for OCD.More about Brittany:Brittany Goff is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and the Clinical Director at Zen Psychological Center, a neuroaffirming OCD practice in Maryland. Additionally, she serves as an Instructor at the Cognitive Behavioral Institute, where she provides continuing education in Inference-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (I-CBT) for OCD. She authored the first-ever I-CBT workbook and was one of the first adopters of I-CBT in the United States. She is the first clinician to offer I-CBT training specifically tailored for individuals with Autism and ADHD, a neuroaffirming approach to treating OCD.For those wanting to learn more about Inference-based, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, visit the following two Facebook groups: I-CBT & Neurodivergence: For licensed therapists, graduate students, researchers, and occupational therapists to discuss the application of I-CBT. Free Resources will be shared for use with clients. I-CBT & Neurodivergence Community: A supportive space for all individuals to connect and share experiences. Free resources, games, and worksheets are accessible to those wanting to apply I-CBT with the help of an I-CBT provider. If you’re interested in deepening your understanding, you can find Brittany Goff’s I-CBT training below, which focuses on resolving the OCD doubt. This fidelity of the model helps you teach your clients how to break free from the obsessive thinking patterns that create convincing narratives of doubt. Trainings in I-CBT: icbtonlinelearning.comIf you are interested in learning how to adapt I-CBT for neurodivergence join the waitlist here and you will be notified when the training is released: y06gsdn8vfh.typeform.com/to/NidrJHd9The neurodivergence training integrates the framework of neurodivergent identity traits and experiences—such as hyper empathy, a strong sense of justice, interoception and proprioception differences, Alexithymia, Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria, PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance/Persistent drive for autonomy), Synesthesia, monotropism, co-occurring health conditions, masking, and burnout—and explores how these traits and experiences can lead to self-doubt and obsessional stories.Brittany Goff’s I-CBT Workbook: a.co/d/7WdHOnqZen Psychological Center offers neuroaffirming autism evaluations, neuroaffirming therapy, medication management, gene site testing, and support groups. Visit us at zenpsychologicalcenter.com to learn more.————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors:✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Navigating the healthcare system and advocating for needs can be a frustrating and invalidating experience, especially for neurodivergent individuals who exhibit interwoven behaviors associated with OCD, autism, or Tourettes.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, and Dr. Stacy Greeter, an AuDHD and OCD child/adolescent and adult psychiatrist, discuss the multi-faceted challenges of accessing appropriate healthcare, the nuances of differentiating between behaviors related to OCD, Austim, and Tourettes, and the significance of authenticity in professional environments.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain valuable insights into how to navigate the healthcare system more effectively by preparing questions, bringing an ally, and scheduling frequent consultations, emphasizing the importance of patient self-advocacy in medical appointments.Understand the distinctions among stimming, tics, and OCD compulsions, and learn to differentiate value-driven actions from fear-based compulsions, helping to provide clarity and reduce pathologizing behaviors that bring joy.Discover the importance of authenticity and individuality in both medical and therapeutic fields, hearing firsthand experiences from professionals who embrace their neurodivergent identities to foster better client outcomes and work cultures.As you reflect on this episode, consider the importance of advocating for your needs within the healthcare system. Remember, your voice and experience are crucial in navigating these complex environments.More about Stacy:Dr. Stacy Greeter is an AuDHD and OCD child/adolescent and adult psychiatrist in Sarasota, FL. Her autistic special interests include fantasy creatures and everything psychiatry. She uses metaphors from fantasy universes such as Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and The Little Mermaid to make complex psychiatric concepts more relatable and advocate for autistic patients and other autistic doctors.Website: stacygreetermd.comYouTube: youtube.com/@stacygreetermdPsychiatry Boot Camp: stacygreetermd.com/psychiatry-boot-campFree Resource on Healthcare Advocacy————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors:✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

OCD is often misunderstood and can manifest in many forms from a variety of experiences that create associations with a compulsion and an outcome.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, are joined by Aiden Reis, a trans, Autistic therapist who specializes in OCD, anxiety, phobias, and panic. They discuss practical strategies for effectively managing OCD through Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy using a value-driven and neurodivergent-affirming approach.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Learn practical strategies for rebuilding self-trust after anxiety-inducing experiences, drawing from Aiden Reis’s invaluable insights into Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy adapted for neurodivergent individuals.Discover the importance of accommodating sensory needs in therapy without reinforcing anxiety, and understand how to effectively differentiate between sensory sensitivities and anxiety responses.Gain a richer appreciation of how addressing "what if" scenarios and unhooking from distressing thoughts can lead to profound empowerment and emotional resilience, helping you live a good life despite potential challenges.OCD can be challenging, but there are ways to manage it, and ERP done using a neurodivergent-affirming approach, can be an effective tool in managing OCD for neurodivergent individuals.More about Aiden:Aiden is a trans and autistic, private practice therapist based in Massachusetts. Working with Autistic and ADHDer clients, he is passionate about providing neurodivergent-affirming and LGBT-positive therapy. He specializes in OCD, anxiety, phobias, and panic. Aiden is a member of the International OCD Foundation.Website: www.divergecounseling.com————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors:✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

For neurodivergent individuals, navigating the upheaval caused by natural disasters can be particularly challenging. The constant unpredictability, sensory overload, and disrupted routines can feel overwhelming.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the psychological, emotional, and physical impact of natural disasters on neurodivergent individuals. Patrick, who lives in Asheville, NC, which was destroyed by Hurricane Helene, shares his experience.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Hear firsthand accounts from Patrick, a resident of Asheville, NC, about the challenges of enduring Hurricane Helene as a neurodivergent individual, including the disorientation from losing communication and navigating resource scarcity.Learn about the incredible efforts in Western North Carolina to band together, raise funds, and offer psychological support amid the chaos, showcasing the power of communal strength and how individuals can offer support that still works with their sensory needs.Understand the coping mechanisms and strategies for reestablishing normalcy, including navigating grief and routine disruption, that neurodivergent individuals can employ in the face of crisis.If you want to donate to Patrick's GoFundMe to help provide urgent aid for Western North Carolina communities affected by Hurricane Helene, visit: atppod.com/wncNOTE: Please be aware that this episode includes a first-hand account of the tragedy and devastation caused by Hurricane Helene in Asheville, North Carolina.————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsors:✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources