Divergent Conversations

Burnout can hit hard for late-diagnosed autistic and ADHD adults, especially when the energy cost of masking becomes too much to bear. Dropping the mask and stepping into authenticity brings both relief and upheaval, raising new challenges that aren’t always easy to navigate alone.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the intricate relationship between masking, unmasking, and Autistic burnout. They use vivid metaphors and real-life examples to depict how masking acts as a bridge to burnout city, discuss the destabilizing yet liberating process of unmasking, and share personal stories of re-discovering their bodies, needs, and boundaries after years of suppressing them. They also offer practical suggestions for finding moments of authentic self-expression, especially when safety and acceptance aren't always possible.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain a clear, relatable understanding of how masking—often invisible to even ourselves—contributes to burnout and why unmasking can feel disorienting but ultimately healing.Hear honest stories from Patrick and Megan Anna about the messy realities and sometimes victories of post-discovery life, including changes in relationships, energy management, and self-acceptance.Learn small, actionable strategies for unmasking safely, rebuilding trust in your body, and advocating for your needs, even if it’s just a few minutes each day.If you’ve been struggling with burnout or questioning why life feels harder after discovering you’re Autistic or ADHD, this episode offers validation, insight, and gentle guidance through the journey.ResourcesNeurodivergent Insights Autistic Masking Workbook: neurodivergentinsights.com/autistic-maskingNeurodivergent Insights Resource on Autistic Burnout: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resourcesThe Autistic Burnout Workbook by Dr. Megan Anna Neff: simonandschuster.com/books/The-Autistic-Burnout-Workbook/Megan-Anna-Neff/9781507223062Check out Neurodivergent Insights’ Library of Boundary Scripts (free resource)Divergent Conversations Podcast Episodes:Episode 2: Autistic Burnout (divergentpod.com/2)Episode 47: Autistic Burnout (Part 2): A Deep Dive Into The Diversity of Burnout (divergentpod.com/47)————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsor: Landmark College & Jane✨ Landmark College:Landmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.✨ Jane:Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Landmark CollegeLandmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.Learn More About Landmark CollegeJaneJane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversationsNeurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Autistic burnout can feel like you’re running on empty: emotionally, physically, or both. Managing energy, burnout, and self-acceptance in a neurotypical world can be exhausting, especially for neurodivergent people navigating chronic fatigue, sensory overload, and internalized expectations.In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the lived experience of burnout, depleted energy, and the ongoing struggle to honor personal limits. Through honest dialogue, they dig deep into pacing systems like spoon theory, the boom-and-bust recovery cycle, and the strategies (and grief) involved in energy management for neurodivergent folks. They also share laughter, relatable moments, and useful frameworks for understanding and advocating for your energy needs.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain a practical understanding of energy pacing systems: including spoon theory and chronic illness frameworks, and hear how these concepts can help you manage your day-to-day life.Learn why naming and honoring your energy limits is inseparable from self-compassion, grief work, and dismantling internalized ableism, with candid stories straight from Patrick and Megan Anna’s lived experiences.Discover actionable strategies for mapping your energy rhythms, advocating for your needs, and building routines that recognize both what drains and what restores you—so you can move toward a more sustainable life.If you’ve ever struggled with burnout, chronic fatigue, or simply wished for more permission to rest, remember that honoring your energy needs is not weakness—it’s a vital act of self-respect.ResourcesSpoon Theory for Neurodivergent Adults: neurodivergentinsights.com/spoon-theoryNeurodivergent Insights Resource on Autistic Burnout: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resourcesThe Autistic Burnout Workbook by Dr. Megan Anna Neff: simonandschuster.com/books/The-Autistic-Burnout-Workbook/Megan-Anna-Neff/9781507223062Check out Neurodivergent Insights’ Library of Boundary Scripts (free resource): neurodivergentinsights.notion.site/Boundary-Statements-17da17a4bb8b80c9a45dc8ff9c651725Relaxation Scripts: students.dartmouth.edu/wellness-center/wellness-mindfulness/mindfulness-meditation/guided-recordings Muscle Relaxation: students.dartmouth.edu/wellness-center/wellness-mindfulness/mindfulness-meditation/guided-recordings/progressive-muscle-relaxationSensory Checklists:Sensory Preferences: neurodivergentinsights.com/sensory-preferences-the-complete-checklistSensory Soothers: neurodivergentinsights.com/sensory-calming-techniquesSensory Triggers: neurodivergentinsights.com/understanding-and-managing-sensory-overloadDivergent Conversations Podcast Episodes:Episode 2: Autistic Burnout (divergentpod.com/2)Episode 47: Autistic Burnout (Part 2): A Deep Dive Into The Diversity of Burnout (divergentpod.com/47)————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsor: Landmark College✨ Landmark College:Landmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resourcesLandmark CollegeLandmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.Learn More About Landmark College

Burnout is a persistent challenge for autistic individuals, deeply tied to their nervous system responses. The hosts explore the science behind stress regulation, heart rate variability, and the impact of trauma. They emphasize the importance of self-compassion and co-regulation in navigating daily challenges. Practical tools for mapping nervous system responses are discussed, along with personal stories of overcoming mental health struggles. The conversation highlights how recognizing triggers can lead to greater resilience and well-being.

Burnout isn’t just about exhaustion—it’s a sensory experience that can leave neurodivergent people feeling stretched to the breaking point. When every sound, smell, or texture feels overwhelming, how do we navigate recovery and build resilience in a world that rarely slows down?In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the connection between sensory processing and autistic burnout. They share candid reflections on their personal burnout cycles, explore how sensory overwhelm shapes emotional and cognitive well-being, and highlight the critical need for understanding individual sensory profiles. This conversation unpacks the realities of living through burnout—including the constant to-do lists, the elusive pursuit of “just right” sensory environments, and the importance of community support—while providing practical strategies for recovery and prevention.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Discover how sensory overload and sensory needs play a major role in burnout for Autistic and ADHD people, and pick up strategies for managing sensory overwhelm even when "rest" isn’t an option.Hear honest, relatable insights from Patrick and Megan Anna about identifying sensory triggers, living with constant overwhelm, and unlearning narratives around "not being content"—plus the validating realization that everyone’s sensory profile and needs are truly unique.Get practical tools to help you map your own sensory landscape, communicate your needs, and take actionable steps toward burnout recovery and prevention—grounded in real-life experiences and evidence-based wisdom.If you’re feeling stretched thin by sensory and emotional demands, this episode is designed to help you understand why and start reclaiming what makes you feel safe, soothed, and genuinely well.ResourcesNeurodivergent Insights Resource on Autistic Burnout: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resourcesThe Autistic Burnout Workbook by Dr. Megan Anna Neff: simonandschuster.com/books/The-Autistic-Burnout-Workbook/Megan-Anna-Neff/9781507223062Check out Neurodivergent Insights’ Library of Boundary Scripts (free resource): neurodivergentinsights.notion.site/Boundary-Statements-17da17a4bb8b80c9a45dc8ff9c651725Sensory Checklists:Sensory Preferences: neurodivergentinsights.com/sensory-preferences-the-complete-checklistSensory Soothers: neurodivergentinsights.com/sensory-calming-techniquesSensory Triggers: neurodivergentinsights.com/understanding-and-managing-sensory-overloadDivergent Conversations Podcast Episodes:Episode 2: Autistic Burnout (divergentpod.com/2)Episode 47: Autistic Burnout (Part 2): A Deep Dive Into The Diversity of Burnout (divergentpod.com/47)————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsor: Landmark College✨ Landmark College:Landmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resourcesLandmark CollegeLandmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs  for educators who work with neurodivergent students. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Enrollment is still open for Fall 2025. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.Learn More About Landmark College

Explore the complexities of Autistic burnout recovery through personal struggles and practical strategies. The hosts share strategies like boundary-setting and creating safe spaces, showcasing the importance of self-awareness and agency. Discover how animals can enhance mental well-being, along with innovative community-building ideas. They candidly discuss the emotional depth of recovery, navigating sensory sensitivities, and the pressures of writing a workbook. Join them for a relatable and insightful journey toward healing and empowerment.

Dive into the challenges of living with Autistic burnout, where perpetual sensory overload meets daily life. Discover the nuanced differences between Autistic burnout and depression, illustrated through personal stories. The hosts share their amusing take on navigating a fictional 'burnout city,' highlighting both the humor and hardship of chronic exhaustion. Listeners gain insight into recognizing burnout triggers and the importance of self-advocacy amidst the chaos, all while receiving practical advice for better mental well-being.

Navigating higher education as a neurodivergent student can often feel isolating and overwhelming in a system not designed for neurodivergent minds. For many, finding an affirming academic environment that truly recognizes and supports neurodivergent strengths, and not just challenges, can be life-changing.In this episode, Patrick Casale, an AuDHD mental health professional, sits down with Dr. Adam Lalor, educational psychologist and Vice President for Neurodiversity Research and Innovation at Landmark College — the first college in the world designed solely for students with learning disabilities, ADHD, autism, and executive function challenges. They explore what makes Landmark’s approach to neurodiversity-affirming education unique, discuss the limitations of traditional post-secondary institutions, and share tangible insights about fostering inclusive, supportive environments that honor neurodivergent culture and identity.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Gain a firsthand look inside Landmark College, a groundbreaking institution built for neurodivergent students, and learn practical ways higher education can shift toward inclusivity, including sensory accommodations and universal design.Hear vulnerable, relatable stories from Patrick and Adam about the often-traumatic realities of navigating college as a neurodivergent person and how trauma-informed, affirming spaces can help restore the joy of learning.Discover actionable advice for families, educators, and neurodivergent students on self-advocacy, accessing accommodations, and nurturing strengths—not just remediating deficits—in academic and personal growth.If you or a loved one has struggled to fit into traditional education or wondered what truly affirming, neurodivergent-centered learning can look like, this episode will inspire and empower you to seek out or create spaces where neurodiverse minds can thrive. Gain insight, validation, and hope for a more inclusive academic future.About Adam Lalor:Adam R. Lalor, Ph.D. is an educational psychologist and Vice President for Neurodiversity Research and Innovation at Landmark College. His research focuses on the college success and transition of neurodivergent and disabled college students. Dr. Lalor is co-author of the book From Disability to Diversity: College Success for Students with Learning Disabilities, ADHD, and Autism Spectrum Disorder and co-editor of the forthcoming book The New Accessibility in Higher Education: Disrupting the System for an Inclusive Future, scheduled to be released this summer by Oxford University Press. He serves in leadership capacities within the Association on Higher Education and Disability, College Autism Network, Learning Disabilities Association of America, and National Center for Learning Disabilities.LC Online’s Learning Differences and Neurodiversity (LDN) certificate is an online, postbaccalaureate professional development program for educators and professionals who work with students with ADHD, autism, learning disabilities such as dyslexia, or executive function challenges.The program uniquely integrates current research findings with evidence-based practices, classroom strategies, and technologies. Courses offer graduate credit and the convenience of online learning, as well as the opportunity to interact with an engaged cohort through video conferences and discussions. Learn more here: landmark.edu/certificateLearn more about Landmark College here: landmark.edu————————————————————————————————🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast🎙️Spotify🎙️Apple🎙️YouTube Music▶️ YouTube💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground————————————————————————————————Thanks to Our Sponsor: Jane✨ Jane:Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources————————————————————————————————💬 Join Divergent Conversations UndergroundDivergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com————————————————————————————————Mentioned in this episode:JaneJane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversationsNeurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout ResourcesIf you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Exploring the intersection of wellness and neurodivergence, this discussion dives into the inadequacies of traditional health advice. It highlights creative adaptations like low-executive-function meal prep and sensory-aware shopping tips. The speakers share personal experiences with emotional challenges related to nutrition and the struggle of seeking help. They emphasize self-compassion and visual cues as tools for simplifying wellness routines. Engaging insights reflect on the importance of personalized approaches and community support for authentic living.

Explore the limitations of conventional wellness tips and why they often miss the mark for neurodivergent individuals. Personal stories reveal the emotional impact of oversimplified advice, and practical adaptations are shared for mindfulness and gratitude. Discover unique insights about sensory experiences and the complexities of traditional practices like bathing. The conversation highlights the need for tailored strategies that respect diverse processing styles, aiming for authentic well-being in everyday life.

This conversation explores the healing power of humor and its intricate relationship with mental health. The hosts share candid stories about using laughter to navigate the complexities of ADHD and OCD. They discuss how playfulness fosters self-acceptance, helping to alleviate shame. The transformative role of shared humor in strengthening connections, particularly among neurodivergent individuals, is highlighted. They also touch on the ethics of authenticity in content creation and the importance of community in finding joy amidst life's challenges.